Artists, businesses boycott North Carolina over anti-LGBT law (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

Again for the cheap seats there is more here than the stupid bathroom law. Which is stupid.

I used the article headline for the title. Should I call it something else? 

 

[timschochet]

Yeah, there's much more to this in Mississippi particularly..


Obviously, no sane individual could defend that.

It's important to note here that both of the leading Republican candidates for President are pledged to nominate a Supreme Court justice who absolutely WILL defend this, under the guise of "religious liberty." 

 

[McGarnicle]

These dooshes have made us a laughingstock and pariah. There is a lot more to the bill than just the bathroom stupidity. They did it as quickly as possible so people.couldn't organize against it. We are now more backwards than Georgia. They enshrined discrimination into law. I can't wait to kick them to the curb in November. 

I am ashamed for them as they don't have the decency to.be ashamed themselves.

I'd say the two states are probably equal in terms of the rural redneck/evangelical/bigot population. The Atlanta area is filled with transplants from everywhere and doesn't feel anything like that though (or I wouldn't be here).

The bill was only defeated here because major companies were threatening to leave, and we'd lose the Super Bowl and Final Four which are both coming in the next decade. The governor would've been crucified.

 

[timschochet]

So does this mean it's a good thing Villanova won? 

 

[McGarnicle]

What interests me the most about this, and the reason I started the thread, is not so much the issue itself but the decision by Springsteen and the corporations to boycott. 

The Civil Rights movement was successful in this country when Martin Luther King and other black leaders convinced northern corporations and businesses to withhold money from the south. As soon as they did that, segregation was essentially over. 

It appears that, in Indiana and North Carolina, the LGBT movement has successfully imitated this strategy, and I suspect they're going to be just as successful. 

Somewhat agree, but I can't help but sympathize with the Springsteen fans, most of whom I guarantee you are against this stupid law and just wanted to see Bruce. He should've come, played his usual 3 hour set, criticized the law after every song, dedicated songs to the gays, urged everyone to write their congressman, and then vowed to never play there again until the law was repealed. The impact would've been just as great imo.

 

[timschochet]

Somewhat agree, but I can't help but sympathize with the Springsteen fans, most of whom I guarantee you are against this stupid law and just wanted to see Bruce. He should've come, played his usual 3 hour set, criticized the law after every song, dedicated songs to the gays, urged everyone to write their congressman, and then vowed to never play there again until the law was repealed. The impact would've been just as great imo.

I see both sides. Incidentally, what you just described was Paul Simon's rationale for recording the album Graceland in Apartheid South Africa in 1986. 

 

[NCCommish]

Somewhat agree, but I can't help but sympathize with the Springsteen fans, most of whom I guarantee you are against this stupid law and just wanted to see Bruce. He should've come, played his usual 3 hour set, criticized the law after every song, dedicated songs to the gays, urged everyone to write their congressman, and then vowed to never play there again until the law was repealed. The impact would've been just as great imo.

I understand what Bruce did but I definitely see your side here. I agree the majority of his fans were probably not supporters of HB2 and they got punished. I know folks who had been waiting for this show for a while and were crushed by his decision. They were pretty pissed about HB2. But he has to do what he thinks is right and it is hard to get very angry at him for it.

 

[NCCommish]

I used the article headline for the title. Should I call it something else? 

It's real title is HB2 but no one would know what that is probably. Your title is fine it's easy to find out the full scope of this abomination if you want to.

 

[NCCommish]

NBA was supposed to do the All Star game here next year. There is a lot of pressure for them to pull it. Mike wouldn't be happy. And Mike out in public against HB2 would mean something here.

 

[E Street Brat]

No, do you really think I believed it did?  I was gloating over Ticketmaster getting it broke off in them.  I couldn't care less what he does one way or the other.  It was just interesting that he's one of the few performers who think their tickets need to be paperless to start with.  Ticketmaster enables them to do so and then gets stuck on the financial hook.

Ticketmaster fees are non refundable. The only ones getting screwed are the ticket buyers.

 

[Limp Ditka]

NBA was supposed to do the All Star game here next year. There is a lot of pressure for them to pull it. Mike wouldn't be happy. And Mike out in public against HB2 would mean something here.

it would have meant more before the vote. I'm going to guess his silence leading up to the vote was deafening 

 

[NCCommish]

it would have meant more before the vote. I'm going to guess his silence leading up to the vote was deafening 

They did this quick. Charlotte passed its ordinance.The legislature called a special session and this was passed quickly to undo what Charlotte did and more. They did it that way I think based on what happened in Georgia. There was enough time for everyone one to rally and businesses to threaten to leave the state. Disney said it would not film one more Marvel movie there. Those have brought the state millions. Other big companies made similar threats, the governor had to cave. They worked fast here.

 

[NCCommish]

Charles Barkley has come out pretty vociferously against it. He who was once a Republican except for idiocy like this.

Yeah I saw that and I hope he keeps it up.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

They did this quick. Charlotte passed its ordinance.The legislature called a special session and this was passed quickly to undo what Charlotte did and more. They did it that way I think based on what happened in Georgia. There was enough time for everyone one to rally and businesses to threaten to leave the state. Disney said it would not film one more Marvel movie there. Those have brought the state millions. Other big companies made similar threats, the governor had to cave. They worked fast here.

How does ANYONE trust such people.  They see it again and again and again.

 

[Limp Ditka]

They did this quick. Charlotte passed its ordinance.The legislature called a special session and this was passed quickly to undo what Charlotte did and more. They did it that way I think based on what happened in Georgia. There was enough time for everyone one to rally and businesses to threaten to leave the state. Disney said it would not film one more Marvel movie there. Those have brought the state millions. Other big companies made similar threats, the governor had to cave. They worked fast here.

He's Mike. Takes him 10 seconds to gain the attention of millions of ears. That's if he actually wanted to take a stand about something outside of his own image. 

 

[Shula-holic]

Ticketmaster fees are non refundable. The only ones getting screwed are the ticket buyers.

They have to refund fees and all.  I'm a ticket broker, it's why I hate them with such passion.  They lose all fees and all the transaction costs it takes to process both the charges and credits to the customer's credit cards.  If any event is ever canceled on you, you get the fees back.  Don't ever let them try to tell you otherwise.

Now in this case it really sucks for the buyers because of the late notice.  Those who had plans to come from out of town especially.

 

[NCCommish]

He's Mike. Takes him 10 seconds to gain the attention of millions of ears. That's if he actually wanted to take a stand about something outside of his own image. 

Well again this happened very quickly and there was little reaction prior to it being done. If the legislature handled real problems this quickly this would be one heck of a well run state. What Mike says or does now is important.

 

[moleculo]

from a facebook friend of mine today:

----

My dad, a long time Bruce Springsteen fan, texted me today about this. My dad has been going to Springsteen concerts for 30-40 years and you won't find, or should I say you wouldn't have found, a bigger fan. I'm not so sure now. Springsteen canceled a concert at the Greensboro Coliseum, which I'm pretty sure is not a "public" facility which would mean that it's unaffected by HB2. He canceled the concert 2 days before it was scheduled. He is a tool and the people he's primarily affecting are his fans, like my dad, who have supported him for decades. I have been silent on this issue because I prefer to avoid confrontation. However, while I believe that we shouldn't discriminate against any person, I also don't know what gender identity really means and while it may only be a small part of the HB2, I'm glad that someone can't claim to suddenly identify as a female and go into a bathroom with my wife and daughter. PayPal pulled out of an expansion that would have brought 400 jobs to Charlotte because of HB2, but they also operate in countries where homosexuals can be executed. For everyone who claims that conservatives who stand up for something are hypocrites should look in the mirror. As a side note, I'm a registered Democrat who voted for Obama twice. This just pissed me off today.

----

my commentary: I find it odd that a registered democrat, Charlotte native, is ok with HB2 and has bought into the "paypal operates where homosexuals are executive" narrative.  It seems that this dude, and his dad, are blaming Bruce for backing out, and I guess that's fair.  PayPal and Bruce are making a mountain out of what should be a molehill, but if artists can't make a political stand, then no one can so I get it.

Charlottes bill was stupid, Raleighs bill was stupid, the overreaction is stupid, and the fact that this will be a national wedge issue is stupid.

 

[Shula-holic]

He's Mike. Takes him 10 seconds to gain the attention of millions of ears. That's if he actually wanted to take a stand about something outside of his own image. 

He never has, and image is part of why.  There's too much stuff about his personal life in the past that he has no interest in gaining any enemies.

 

[BassNBrew]

Somewhat agree, but I can't help but sympathize with the Springsteen fans, most of whom I guarantee you are against this stupid law and just wanted to see Bruce. He should've come, played his usual 3 hour set, criticized the law after every song, dedicated songs to the gays, urged everyone to write their congressman, and then vowed to never play there again until the law was repealed. The impact would've been just as great imo.

Why would you dedicate songs to gays?  Pretty sure gay men go to the mens bathroom and lesbians go to the female bathroom.  Don't see this as a LG issue.  

 

[BassNBrew]

from a facebook friend of mine today:

----

My dad, a long time Bruce Springsteen fan, texted me today about this. My dad has been going to Springsteen concerts for 30-40 years and you won't find, or should I say you wouldn't have found, a bigger fan. I'm not so sure now. Springsteen canceled a concert at the Greensboro Coliseum, which I'm pretty sure is not a "public" facility which would mean that it's unaffected by HB2. He canceled the concert 2 days before it was scheduled. He is a tool and the people he's primarily affecting are his fans, like my dad, who have supported him for decades. I have been silent on this issue because I prefer to avoid confrontation. However, while I believe that we shouldn't discriminate against any person, I also don't know what gender identity really means and while it may only be a small part of the HB2, I'm glad that someone can't claim to suddenly identify as a female and go into a bathroom with my wife and daughter. PayPal pulled out of an expansion that would have brought 400 jobs to Charlotte because of HB2, but they also operate in countries where homosexuals can be executed. For everyone who claims that conservatives who stand up for something are hypocrites should look in the mirror. As a side note, I'm a registered Democrat who voted for Obama twice. This just pissed me off today.

----

my commentary: I find it odd that a registered democrat, Charlotte native, is ok with HB2 and has bought into the "paypal operates where homosexuals are executive" narrative.  It seems that this dude, and his dad, are blaming Bruce for backing out, and I guess that's fair.  PayPal and Bruce are making a mountain out of what should be a molehill, but if artists can't make a political stand, then no one can so I get it.

Charlottes bill was stupid, Raleighs bill was stupid, the overreaction is stupid, and the fact that this will be a national wedge issue is stupid.

Yup, Charlotte libs boned this and then the states cons one upped them.

 

[Henry Ford]

Shouldn't be a law.  It should up to the business. Just like if they even have restrooms at all.

Whether or not businesses have restrooms is up to the business in North Carolina? What kind of building codes do they have there, none?

 

[flapgreen]

I know.  It was rhetorical.  I would never question your ability to blow something way out  of proportion. 

 

[SlaX]

NBA was supposed to do the All Star game here next year. There is a lot of pressure for them to pull it. Mike wouldn't be happy. And Mike out in public against HB2 would mean something here.

I even read an article sometime over the last couple of weeks that reported that some of the owners are pressuring Commissioner Silver to force a move of the Hornets out of the Carolinas if the bill stays in effect.  And also CT lawmakers are pressuring Bank of America to move their headquarters out of Charlotte.  Along with losing Paypal, I think this is just the tip of the iceberg. 

 

[Gachi]

Yet another L for the south.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Whether or not businesses have restrooms is up to the business in North Carolina? What kind of building codes do they have there, none?

Don't some places not have public restrooms? 

 

[pollardsvision]

Mens bathrooms at a public event, airport, etc. are some of the most vile places on earth. Nobody is fighting to use those things.

I can tell you why there's outrage here. Women simply don't want men ####### up their pristine bathrooms.

Men's bathroom has been out for awhile at work, so men have had to use the women's. The broads are not pleased. 

This isn't about peeping Tom's sneaking into the bathroom. It's about piss on the seat and unwashed hands grabbing the door knob. 

 

[avoiding injuries]

Yet another L for the south.

This is turning into an L for everyone. 

 

[Boston]

Another issue where both sides go to far...gays should be treated equally but please don't tell me boys going to the girls room and girls going to the boys room is normal (it absolutely is not)...can we just find a middle-ground where people don't force their religion or liberal views on everyone...it' funny that two sides that basically hate each other do pretty much the same thing and get totally up-in-arms with anyone who doesn't share their point-of-view... 

 

[elbowrm]

The bathroom issue is just the tip of the iceberg in this ALEC masterpiece -

http://www.charlottemagazine.com/Charlotte-Magazine/April-2016/The-HB2-Provision-Few-Are-Talking-About/#.VwanLcK--Tg.facebook

McCrory used to be a moderate, and since he's been in office he's been nothing but a rubber stamp for the antediluvian arch conservatives from the backwoods of NC.  I can't believe I voted for this guy.

 

[Steve Tasker]

Yet another L for the south.

Sometimes I hate NY politics, and then I see things like this story and immediately feel a lot better.

 

[Henry Ford]

Don't some places not have public restrooms? 

I'm sure some don't have public restrooms.  Everywhere has restrooms for employees at least, I'd imagine. But many types of businesses and facilities are required to have public restrooms.

 

[NCCommish]

I'm sure some don't have public restrooms.  Everywhere has restrooms for employees at least, I'd imagine. But many types of businesses and facilities are required to have public restrooms.

If you serve food and allow people to eat it there you have to have public restrooms.

 

[Henry Ford]

If you serve food and allow people to eat it there you have to have public restrooms.

For instance.

 

[Kiddnets]

the bill is being wrongly touted as the bathroom bill...while bad it's only a part of it... they removed LGBT protections from all discrimination laws so now an NC employer is ok to fire an LGBT employee because of their LGBT status...also opened door to refusing services... awful

Big Bruce fan....drove 10 hrs with te family to see the show and found out about this 5 hrs in....definitely upset that it was cancelled so close but understand why it was done and support the decision...as he said..some things are more important than a rock concert....this stand has brought lots of attention to this awful law and thats more important.  

 

[[scooter]]

So, they've created a law that prevents men from going into a women's restroom. Okay.

But the only people who would ever draw enough attention to be arrested for the crime would be genetic women who were dressed up as men, which by law is not only legal, but encouraged. 

 

[timschochet]

It seems as if the bathroom part of the law was used as an excuse by the legislators to throw in all kinds of anti-gay stuff, and that it's the latter which Bruce and the corporations are objecting too. However as the media and this thread has demonstrated, many people are fooled into thinking the bathroom stuff is the only issue. I originally thought so myself, now I have changed the thread title. 

If the law had ONLY been about bathrooms, would a boycott still have occurred? I don't know. 

 

[pantherclub]

I am right here in the heart of NC and have been following this closely.  Both sides are acting nuts over this and quite frankly is just stupid.  

This "issue" is beyond ridiculous but I think the Governor was an absolute and complete moron to dip his little toe in this mess.  He should have none the crap storm that he was going to cause in this day and age.  Absolute lunacy.  Now he (and the state for that matter) are knee deep in it with no way out.

Such a stupid issue to start with.  They should have just looked the other way and let it die down instead of the stupid bill.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I'm sure some don't have public restrooms.  Everywhere has restrooms for employees at least, I'd imagine. But many types of businesses and facilities are required to have public restrooms.

I believe those old Fotomats were the last places not to have any bathrooms at all.

 

[NCCommish]

I believe those old Fotomats were the last places not to have any bathrooms at all.

When I was an Eckerds manager we didn't have public restrooms but we were told that by law we had to let a customer use the employee bathroom. Not sure if that was a state law or just something they said so.we'd do it.

 

[jwb]

It seems as if the bathroom part of the law was used as an excuse by the legislators to throw in all kinds of anti-gay stuff, and that it's the latter which Bruce and the corporations are objecting too. However as the media and this thread has demonstrated, many people are fooled into thinking the bathroom stuff is the only issue. I originally thought so myself, now I have changed the thread title. 

If the law had ONLY been about bathrooms, would a boycott still have occurred? I don't know. 

Probably not. In fact, bathrooms were likely included because it's a great talking point to rile people up (e.g., "if you're against this law, then you want men in there with your daughter"). if it was really only about the bathroom, why include all the other stuff? 

 

[technicaldifficulties]

I know.  It was rhetorical.  I would never question your ability to blow something way out  of proportion. 

Do I know what rhetorical means?

 

[Jobber]

You know their bathrooms have to be nicer.

I used to clean bathrooms. Women are nastier than men for the most part. The only difference, which may put the men up by a hair, is the urinal wall booger wipe some sick f**** like to do.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I used to clean bathrooms. Women are nastier than men for the most part. The only difference, which may put the men up by a hair, is the urinal wall booger wipe some sick f**** like to do.

Women's, at the clubs, are far worse. 

 

[jwb]

Women's, at the clubs, are far worse. 

My first job was in a restaurant/bar/nightclub. Yes, the women's bathroom was always worse.,.. it wasn't even close, really. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

the bill is being wrongly touted as the bathroom bill...while bad it's only a part of it... they removed LGBT protections from all discrimination laws so now an NC employer is ok to fire an LGBT employee because of their LGBT status...also opened door to refusing services... awful

Big Bruce fan....drove 10 hrs with te family to see the show and found out about this 5 hrs in....definitely upset that it was cancelled so close but understand why it was done and support the decision...as he said..some things are more important than a rock concert....this stand has brought lots of attention to this awful law and thats more important.  

I agree with you that the bathroom part of this bill is stupid.  Obviously it's better to go by self-identified gender rather than biological sex for this, in terms of being less disruptive.  

The other part of the bill though, the one that allows firms to decline doing business with gay people, seems uncontroversial to me, and your post is the post in this thread that seems to understand that most clearly.  I mean, obviously Bruce Springsteen is under no obligation to perform in a state where he feels uncomfortable.  He doesn't like the way that NC is doing things, so he decides to disassociate himself from it.  No worries -- that's his right.  Nobody would serious argue that The Boss should be forced to perform for an audience that he has problems with, because it's a free country and people should be free to act according to their conscience when it comes to voluntary transactions.

So now put yourself in the shoes of a wedding caterer who has a problem with gay weddings, and realize that the situation is exactly symmetric.  Aside from the fact that you approve of one boycott and disagree with the other, they both represent individuals choosing to pick and choose who to do business with based on their personal views of right and wrong.  If you want to tell me that the wedding caterer is being stupid while Springsteen is being principled, I'll agree with you, but the principle is the same.  In general, we don't force people to serve other people against their will.  

(To fast forward the argument through the inevitable, yes the same logic applies to race, gender, religion, nationality, or whatever.  If you think it's okay for a musician to discriminate against one group of people, then you pretty much have to allow for other folks to indulge in their preferred forms of discrimination too).  

 

[IvanKaramazov]

To put it a little differently, let's do a thought experiment.  Suppose that tomorrow morning, Bruce Springsteen wakes up and converts to hard-core fundamentalist Christianity.  Specifically, he comes to the conclusion that there's something bad about homosexuality, and he decides that from now on he'll never perform in another state or municipality that protects gays, let alone the whole LGBTQ spectrum, from discrimination.  

Should we force Springsteen to perform in those locations, against his will?

I've never met anyone who thought that Christian rock groups should have to accept offers to perform for GLAAD, so I assume the answer to that question is no. But if that's the case, how is a private caterer any different than Bruce Springsteen, in any relevant respect?

 

[jomar]

Anyone from NC can see any Springsteen show they want.  How are they discriminated against?

 

[[scooter]]

So now put yourself in the shoes of a wedding caterer who has a problem with gay weddings, and realize that the situation is exactly symmetric.  Aside from the fact that you approve of one boycott and disagree with the other, they both represent individuals choosing to pick and choose who to do business with based on their personal views of right and wrong.  If you want to tell me that the wedding caterer is being stupid while Springsteen is being principled, I'll agree with you, but the principle is the same.  In general, we don't force people to serve other people against their will.  

I agree with much of what you say. However, there is a significant difference between "cater a gay wedding" and "do business with gay people". Religious liberty should protect a person from doing the former but not the latter.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Anyone from NC can see any Springsteen show they want.  How are they discriminated against?

Nobody from NC can see the Springsteen show that isn't playing in Wilmington (for example -- I have no idea what exactly has been cancelled and I'm too lazy to google it).  My point is that nobody thinks that Springsteen should be forced to play in Wilmington.