A's may need a new home - Philly maybe? (1 Viewer)

[fred_1_15301]

The Phillies fans themselves don't even go to games anymore, which is a direct indictment of being fair-weather baseball fans. I don't like the idea of having another team in the area. Every one of the fair weather fans (e.g., the empty seats in CBP every night) would "be fans" of whoever is better. We're having a hard enough time fielding fans for one team's games, another I can't see ending well.

I don't think they're fair weather fans. There's a crappy product on the field. People don't support that. But I guarantee you everyone in Philly is still a die hard Phillies fan.

They're fair weather. There's a very hardcore, small Phillies fan base.....and then there's people who jump on when they're good. People forget that the attendance numbers at Citizen's Bank BallPark dropped in the years after the opening....Anecdotally, there were plenty of times we could get 10+ tickets to Opening Day. We ended up getting Season Tickets in 07 and by 09/10 they were throwing partial season ticket holders in the Opening Day lotteries. Even in 07 and 08 they were offering extra tickets to ALL of the playoff games to ticket holders.

I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion, just about every fanbase can be considered "fair weathered". Fans will typically show up when the team is good and attendance will drop when the team is bad. The only sport where it's not as prevalent is football. In football, many teams will sell out all of their games regardless of how good or bad they are. In a few years, we'll be talking about how great a basketball town Philly is when currently nobody gives a #### about the team. Philly is a great sports town but certainly has their share of fair weather fans.

I can't say for basketball because I'm not an NBA fan, but I don't know of anyone who was a Phillies fan that no longer is now. Are they going to a bunch of games? Probably not. Will they talk bad about the ownership or team? Probably. But that's because they love their team. I lived in Houston and I don't think Astros fans were the same. I lived in Cincinnati and I would say they were more like Phillies fans. I'm not saying there are no fair weather fans in Philly. I'm just saying I wouldn't classify Phillies fans as fair weather fans by any sense of the term.

What you described in your first sentence is what I would call a bandwagon fan (not a fair weather fan). I'm not saying Philly is a bandwagon town.

 

[No. 16]

Let me keep my A's people. When they were crap you didn't want them, but now that we are the best and most entertaining team in baseball you want to steal them away?

F U and F Selig. Let the A's move to San Jose already. It's bull that the A's gave up territorial rights to San Jose to keep the Giants in SF, but the commish and the Giants won't return the favor now that the tables are turned.

I wanted them in the 90's when their most heralded player was Ben Grieve.

You want to keep them? Find them a respectable place to play. Playing in a ghetto stadium that sucks like a hooker with a thirst is not a way to keep your team for the long haul.

MLB needs to let them move to San Jose. The city wants the team badly... hell they're even suing MLB. I don't live in Oakland, but I live in the East Bay so a move to San Jose is fine by me. I just don't want to root for the Giants if they end up being only local team.

Oakland is a mess. It's sad to think that the city has the Dubs, A's, and Raiders right now and within the next decade they could all be gone.

 

[drummer]

Let me keep my A's people. When they were crap you didn't want them, but now that we are the best and most entertaining team in baseball you want to steal them away?

F U and F Selig. Let the A's move to San Jose already. It's bull that the A's gave up territorial rights to San Jose to keep the Giants in SF, but the commish and the Giants won't return the favor now that the tables are turned.

I wanted them in the 90's when their most heralded player was Ben Grieve.

You want to keep them? Find them a respectable place to play. Playing in a ghetto stadium that sucks like a hooker with a thirst is not a way to keep your team for the long haul.

MLB needs to let them move to San Jose. The city wants the team badly... hell they're even suing MLB. I don't live in Oakland, but I live in the East Bay so a move to San Jose is fine by me. I just don't want to root for the Giants if they end up being only local team.

Oakland is a mess. It's sad to think that the city has the Dubs, A's, and Raiders right now and within the next decade they could all be gone.

Doesn't Oaktown have like 1.5 police officers to every 1000 people?

Warriors in SF - Ok by me. Raiders sharing with SJ 49ers in the new crib - ok by me. A's leaving Oaktown -

 

[No. 16]

Let me keep my A's people. When they were crap you didn't want them, but now that we are the best and most entertaining team in baseball you want to steal them away?

F U and F Selig. Let the A's move to San Jose already. It's bull that the A's gave up territorial rights to San Jose to keep the Giants in SF, but the commish and the Giants won't return the favor now that the tables are turned.

I wanted them in the 90's when their most heralded player was Ben Grieve.

You want to keep them? Find them a respectable place to play. Playing in a ghetto stadium that sucks like a hooker with a thirst is not a way to keep your team for the long haul.

MLB needs to let them move to San Jose. The city wants the team badly... hell they're even suing MLB. I don't live in Oakland, but I live in the East Bay so a move to San Jose is fine by me. I just don't want to root for the Giants if they end up being only local team.

Oakland is a mess. It's sad to think that the city has the Dubs, A's, and Raiders right now and within the next decade they could all be gone.

Doesn't Oaktown have like 1.5 police officers to every 1000 people?

Warriors in SF - Ok by me. Raiders sharing with SJ 49ers in the new crib - ok by me. A's leaving Oaktown -

I wish they all would stay in Oakland but I'd rather have the A's in San Jose instead of Philly or Portland or some other place.

 

[drummer]

Let me keep my A's people. When they were crap you didn't want them, but now that we are the best and most entertaining team in baseball you want to steal them away?

F U and F Selig. Let the A's move to San Jose already. It's bull that the A's gave up territorial rights to San Jose to keep the Giants in SF, but the commish and the Giants won't return the favor now that the tables are turned.

I wanted them in the 90's when their most heralded player was Ben Grieve.

You want to keep them? Find them a respectable place to play. Playing in a ghetto stadium that sucks like a hooker with a thirst is not a way to keep your team for the long haul.

MLB needs to let them move to San Jose. The city wants the team badly... hell they're even suing MLB. I don't live in Oakland, but I live in the East Bay so a move to San Jose is fine by me. I just don't want to root for the Giants if they end up being only local team.

Oakland is a mess. It's sad to think that the city has the Dubs, A's, and Raiders right now and within the next decade they could all be gone.

Doesn't Oaktown have like 1.5 police officers to every 1000 people?

Warriors in SF - Ok by me. Raiders sharing with SJ 49ers in the new crib - ok by me. A's leaving Oaktown -

I wish they all would stay in Oakland but I'd rather have the A's in San Jose instead of Philly or Portland or some other place.

The A's crib was fine until Mount Davis was built. The Raiders moving first could mean a new smaller ballpark for the A's, but Oaktwon is strapped for cash. The drug dealers have more $$ than the city does.

 

[Insein]

Let me keep my A's people. When they were crap you didn't want them, but now that we are the best and most entertaining team in baseball you want to steal them away?

F U and F Selig. Let the A's move to San Jose already. It's bull that the A's gave up territorial rights to San Jose to keep the Giants in SF, but the commish and the Giants won't return the favor now that the tables are turned.

I wanted them in the 90's when their most heralded player was Ben Grieve.

You want to keep them? Find them a respectable place to play. Playing in a ghetto stadium that sucks like a hooker with a thirst is not a way to keep your team for the long haul.

MLB needs to let them move to San Jose. The city wants the team badly... hell they're even suing MLB. I don't live in Oakland, but I live in the East Bay so a move to San Jose is fine by me. I just don't want to root for the Giants if they end up being only local team.

Oakland is a mess. It's sad to think that the city has the Dubs, A's, and Raiders right now and within the next decade they could all be gone.

Doesn't Oaktown have like 1.5 police officers to every 1000 people?

Warriors in SF - Ok by me. Raiders sharing with SJ 49ers in the new crib - ok by me. A's leaving Oaktown -

I wish they all would stay in Oakland but I'd rather have the A's in San Jose instead of Philly or Portland or some other place.

The A's crib was fine until Mount Davis was built. The Raiders moving first could mean a new smaller ballpark for the A's, but Oaktwon is strapped for cash. The drug dealers have more $$ than the city does.

Well get them to invest. They need to show some Oaktown civic pride.

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Phillies fans themselves don't even go to games anymore, which is a direct indictment of being fair-weather baseball fans. I don't like the idea of having another team in the area. Every one of the fair weather fans (e.g., the empty seats in CBP every night) would "be fans" of whoever is better. We're having a hard enough time fielding fans for one team's games, another I can't see ending well.

I don't think they're fair weather fans. There's a crappy product on the field. People don't support that. But I guarantee you everyone in Philly is still a die hard Phillies fan.

They're fair weather. There's a very hardcore, small Phillies fan base.....and then there's people who jump on when they're good. People forget that the attendance numbers at Citizen's Bank BallPark dropped in the years after the opening....Anecdotally, there were plenty of times we could get 10+ tickets to Opening Day. We ended up getting Season Tickets in 07 and by 09/10 they were throwing partial season ticket holders in the Opening Day lotteries. Even in 07 and 08 they were offering extra tickets to ALL of the playoff games to ticket holders.

I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion, just about every fanbase can be considered "fair weathered". Fans will typically show up when the team is good and attendance will drop when the team is bad. The only sport where it's not as prevalent is football. In football, many teams will sell out all of their games regardless of how good or bad they are. In a few years, we'll be talking about how great a basketball town Philly is when currently nobody gives a #### about the team. Philly is a great sports town but certainly has their share of fair weather fans.

I can't say for basketball because I'm not an NBA fan, but I don't know of anyone who was a Phillies fan that no longer is now. Are they going to a bunch of games? Probably not. Will they talk bad about the ownership or team? Probably. But that's because they love their team. I lived in Houston and I don't think Astros fans were the same. I lived in Cincinnati and I would say they were more like Phillies fans. I'm not saying there are no fair weather fans in Philly. I'm just saying I wouldn't classify Phillies fans as fair weather fans by any sense of the term.

What you described in your first sentence is what I would call a bandwagon fan (not a fair weather fan). I'm not saying Philly is a bandwagon town.

My first sentence stated that people who were fans when they were winning are still fans now that they're losing. You're more than welcome to call that being a bandwagon fan, but your definition is different than every other person's on Earth.

 

[fred_1_15301]

The Phillies fans themselves don't even go to games anymore, which is a direct indictment of being fair-weather baseball fans. I don't like the idea of having another team in the area. Every one of the fair weather fans (e.g., the empty seats in CBP every night) would "be fans" of whoever is better. We're having a hard enough time fielding fans for one team's games, another I can't see ending well.

I don't think they're fair weather fans. There's a crappy product on the field. People don't support that. But I guarantee you everyone in Philly is still a die hard Phillies fan.

They're fair weather. There's a very hardcore, small Phillies fan base.....and then there's people who jump on when they're good. People forget that the attendance numbers at Citizen's Bank BallPark dropped in the years after the opening....Anecdotally, there were plenty of times we could get 10+ tickets to Opening Day. We ended up getting Season Tickets in 07 and by 09/10 they were throwing partial season ticket holders in the Opening Day lotteries. Even in 07 and 08 they were offering extra tickets to ALL of the playoff games to ticket holders.

I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion, just about every fanbase can be considered "fair weathered". Fans will typically show up when the team is good and attendance will drop when the team is bad. The only sport where it's not as prevalent is football. In football, many teams will sell out all of their games regardless of how good or bad they are. In a few years, we'll be talking about how great a basketball town Philly is when currently nobody gives a #### about the team. Philly is a great sports town but certainly has their share of fair weather fans.

I can't say for basketball because I'm not an NBA fan, but I don't know of anyone who was a Phillies fan that no longer is now. Are they going to a bunch of games? Probably not. Will they talk bad about the ownership or team? Probably. But that's because they love their team. I lived in Houston and I don't think Astros fans were the same. I lived in Cincinnati and I would say they were more like Phillies fans. I'm not saying there are no fair weather fans in Philly. I'm just saying I wouldn't classify Phillies fans as fair weather fans by any sense of the term.

What you described in your first sentence is what I would call a bandwagon fan (not a fair weather fan). I'm not saying Philly is a bandwagon town.

My first sentence stated that people who were fans when they were winning are still fans now that they're losing. You're more than welcome to call that being a bandwagon fan, but your definition is different than every other person's on Earth.

We were discussing fair weather fans and your first sentence was ".....but I don't know of anyone who was a Phillies fan that no longer is now". A "bandwagon" fan is someone who jumps on the ship when the team is winning and jumps on another ship when the team is losing. A fair weather fan is someone who is always a fan of the team but doesn't really pay attention unless they're winning. My wife is a classic example of a fair weathered Pittsburgh sports fan

 

[Don Quixote]

There is a grassroots push, led by Warren Cromartie, to bring baseball back to Montreal. A stadium, such as it is, already exists until such time that something new can be built.

They already lost a team once? So what ... D.C. lost its team twice before.

A competent ownership and management group that properly invested in the team/franchise would be well-received, IMHO.

I've been to the Big O. It is completely unusable. Montreal is an awesome city, but you'd have to build a new stadium first in a great location before doing anything else.

It was a shame about the strike season with Pedro, they were rolling.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I went to the "Big Uh Oh" at least one series a summer for years back in the '90s. Nothing worse than having a gorgeous Montreal afternoon or evening and being stuck indoors in that concrete hellhole. That's the last thing Montrealers want to do when the weather gets nice ... which is why the Jazz Fest, Comedy Fest and anything else that takes place downtown during the summer always brings them out in droves.

But if you're looking for a place to put a team (whether the A's or the Rays or whatever) temporarily while a new stadium is built, Montreal at least has that above any of the other options out there. And the Canadian dollar is in much better shape relative to the U.S. than it was a decade ago.

Of all the crap that went on with the franchise, the Expos still would be there if they could have closed the deal for Labatt Park in that area of downtown. Unfortunately, that land is gone now.

And don't remind me about 1994. I posted about it in the Gwynn thread ... everyone talks about the Expos that season, and rightfully so. But there were tremendous things going on all around baseball that season.

Not sure if interested, but I read Jonah Keri's book on the history of the Expos recently, and it's a pretty good read: http://www.amazon.com/Up-Away-Business-Ill-fated-Unforgettable/dp/0307361357

 

[TheIronSheik]

The Phillies fans themselves don't even go to games anymore, which is a direct indictment of being fair-weather baseball fans. I don't like the idea of having another team in the area. Every one of the fair weather fans (e.g., the empty seats in CBP every night) would "be fans" of whoever is better. We're having a hard enough time fielding fans for one team's games, another I can't see ending well.

I don't think they're fair weather fans. There's a crappy product on the field. People don't support that. But I guarantee you everyone in Philly is still a die hard Phillies fan.

They're fair weather. There's a very hardcore, small Phillies fan base.....and then there's people who jump on when they're good. People forget that the attendance numbers at Citizen's Bank BallPark dropped in the years after the opening....Anecdotally, there were plenty of times we could get 10+ tickets to Opening Day. We ended up getting Season Tickets in 07 and by 09/10 they were throwing partial season ticket holders in the Opening Day lotteries. Even in 07 and 08 they were offering extra tickets to ALL of the playoff games to ticket holders.

I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion, just about every fanbase can be considered "fair weathered". Fans will typically show up when the team is good and attendance will drop when the team is bad. The only sport where it's not as prevalent is football. In football, many teams will sell out all of their games regardless of how good or bad they are. In a few years, we'll be talking about how great a basketball town Philly is when currently nobody gives a #### about the team. Philly is a great sports town but certainly has their share of fair weather fans.

I can't say for basketball because I'm not an NBA fan, but I don't know of anyone who was a Phillies fan that no longer is now. Are they going to a bunch of games? Probably not. Will they talk bad about the ownership or team? Probably. But that's because they love their team. I lived in Houston and I don't think Astros fans were the same. I lived in Cincinnati and I would say they were more like Phillies fans. I'm not saying there are no fair weather fans in Philly. I'm just saying I wouldn't classify Phillies fans as fair weather fans by any sense of the term.

What you described in your first sentence is what I would call a bandwagon fan (not a fair weather fan). I'm not saying Philly is a bandwagon town.

My first sentence stated that people who were fans when they were winning are still fans now that they're losing. You're more than welcome to call that being a bandwagon fan, but your definition is different than every other person's on Earth.

We were discussing fair weather fans and your first sentence was ".....but I don't know of anyone who was a Phillies fan that no longer is now". A "bandwagon" fan is someone who jumps on the ship when the team is winning and jumps on another ship when the team is losing. A fair weather fan is someone who is always a fan of the team but doesn't really pay attention unless they're winning. My wife is a classic example of a fair weathered Pittsburgh sports fan

OK. I get what you're saying. That's my fault. I didn't explain it right, I guess.

What I meant to say was that people have been Phillies fans for as long as I know. Back when they were crap. Then, they won. Now they're crap again. But every one of those people I know who have been Phillies fans have been life long Phillies fans. Through the good and the bad.

 

[fred_1_15301]

The Phillies fans themselves don't even go to games anymore, which is a direct indictment of being fair-weather baseball fans. I don't like the idea of having another team in the area. Every one of the fair weather fans (e.g., the empty seats in CBP every night) would "be fans" of whoever is better. We're having a hard enough time fielding fans for one team's games, another I can't see ending well.

I don't think they're fair weather fans. There's a crappy product on the field. People don't support that. But I guarantee you everyone in Philly is still a die hard Phillies fan.

They're fair weather. There's a very hardcore, small Phillies fan base.....and then there's people who jump on when they're good. People forget that the attendance numbers at Citizen's Bank BallPark dropped in the years after the opening....Anecdotally, there were plenty of times we could get 10+ tickets to Opening Day. We ended up getting Season Tickets in 07 and by 09/10 they were throwing partial season ticket holders in the Opening Day lotteries. Even in 07 and 08 they were offering extra tickets to ALL of the playoff games to ticket holders.

I respectfully disagree.

In my opinion, just about every fanbase can be considered "fair weathered". Fans will typically show up when the team is good and attendance will drop when the team is bad. The only sport where it's not as prevalent is football. In football, many teams will sell out all of their games regardless of how good or bad they are. In a few years, we'll be talking about how great a basketball town Philly is when currently nobody gives a #### about the team. Philly is a great sports town but certainly has their share of fair weather fans.

I can't say for basketball because I'm not an NBA fan, but I don't know of anyone who was a Phillies fan that no longer is now. Are they going to a bunch of games? Probably not. Will they talk bad about the ownership or team? Probably. But that's because they love their team. I lived in Houston and I don't think Astros fans were the same. I lived in Cincinnati and I would say they were more like Phillies fans. I'm not saying there are no fair weather fans in Philly. I'm just saying I wouldn't classify Phillies fans as fair weather fans by any sense of the term.

What you described in your first sentence is what I would call a bandwagon fan (not a fair weather fan). I'm not saying Philly is a bandwagon town.

My first sentence stated that people who were fans when they were winning are still fans now that they're losing. You're more than welcome to call that being a bandwagon fan, but your definition is different than every other person's on Earth.

We were discussing fair weather fans and your first sentence was ".....but I don't know of anyone who was a Phillies fan that no longer is now". A "bandwagon" fan is someone who jumps on the ship when the team is winning and jumps on another ship when the team is losing. A fair weather fan is someone who is always a fan of the team but doesn't really pay attention unless they're winning. My wife is a classic example of a fair weathered Pittsburgh sports fan

OK. I get what you're saying. That's my fault. I didn't explain it right, I guess.

What I meant to say was that people have been Phillies fans for as long as I know. Back when they were crap. Then, they won. Now they're crap again. But every one of those people I know who have been Phillies fans have been life long Phillies fans. Through the good and the bad.

I think we're agreeing with each other. Just semantics.

 

[Eephus]

I think we're agreeing with each other. Just semantics.

I think you're arguing with each other because you're Philadelphians

 

[Dickie Dunn]

There is a grassroots push, led by Warren Cromartie, to bring baseball back to Montreal. A stadium, such as it is, already exists until such time that something new can be built.

They already lost a team once? So what ... D.C. lost its team twice before.

A competent ownership and management group that properly invested in the team/franchise would be well-received, IMHO.

I've been to the Big O. It is completely unusable. Montreal is an awesome city, but you'd have to build a new stadium first in a great location before doing anything else.

It was a shame about the strike season with Pedro, they were rolling.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I went to the "Big Uh Oh" at least one series a summer for years back in the '90s. Nothing worse than having a gorgeous Montreal afternoon or evening and being stuck indoors in that concrete hellhole. That's the last thing Montrealers want to do when the weather gets nice ... which is why the Jazz Fest, Comedy Fest and anything else that takes place downtown during the summer always brings them out in droves.

But if you're looking for a place to put a team (whether the A's or the Rays or whatever) temporarily while a new stadium is built, Montreal at least has that above any of the other options out there. And the Canadian dollar is in much better shape relative to the U.S. than it was a decade ago.

Of all the crap that went on with the franchise, the Expos still would be there if they could have closed the deal for Labatt Park in that area of downtown. Unfortunately, that land is gone now.

And don't remind me about 1994. I posted about it in the Gwynn thread ... everyone talks about the Expos that season, and rightfully so. But there were tremendous things going on all around baseball that season.

Not sure if interested, but I read Jonah Keri's book on the history of the Expos recently, and it's a pretty good read: http://www.amazon.com/Up-Away-Business-Ill-fated-Unforgettable/dp/0307361357

I have it, but I haven't been able to sit down and read it yet.

 

[Jaysus]

If Philly did get a second MLB team, where would they play? My guess is in New Jersey.