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Asked for a 53% Raise (3 Viewers)

RUSF18 said:
Nothing a higher up likes more than to get a compensation demand, negotiate back, come to an agreement, and then get asked for something else on top of it. 
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It depends on how it’s presented and the amount. After an agreement is made everyone takes a mental sigh of relief so it’s a vulnerable time to ask for a little something extra. It’s very effective. The 401k ask isn’t a great example because I could bring that up next week.

The nibble works great for things like a new laptop, an extra week of vacation, company paying for your home internet because you do work at night, etc. I’m running out of little things to ask for.

 
Johnny Rock said:
I try to look out for everybody. Yes, it would help me greatly, but some manager making $40k it might allow her to actually retire with a few bucks some day. It would help the principals too.

I’ve done it before about 5 years ago. We went from 50% match up to 4% to 100% match up to 4%.
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So your plan is to ask for a big raise and a significant increase in an expense that will benefit all employees with the idea that you can offer to pull your demands for the 401k increase in exchange for them meeting your salary demand to show them you're willing to give up something.

That's interesting.

Next time I'm selling my house I'm going to list it at 153% of market value plus have a rider that the buyer will have to put my kids through college. When they balk at that I can show good faith by offering to strike the tuition part if they meet my asking price.

 
Ignoramus said:
So your plan is to ask for a big raise and a significant increase in an expense that will benefit all employees with the idea that you can offer to pull your demands for the 401k increase in exchange for them meeting your salary demand to show them you're willing to give up something.

That's interesting.

Next time I'm selling my house I'm going to list it at 153% of market value plus have a rider that the buyer will have to put my kids through college. When they balk at that I can show good faith by offering to strike the tuition part if they meet my asking price.
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You all got me to change my mind about commingling the company match with my items. I’ll wait on that. 

Asking for more allows you to concede some so both sides win. Things like Bonus. Backdating the salary increase which I will bring up later. Of course he can say no. 

Let me know how the college costs rider goes. Maybe I should ask for that too? Oh, and orthodontics!

 
matuski said:
I didn't mean that to disparage anyone making less... just the OP was getting piled on over it, which seemed weird.
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I didn't think you were, and like I said I guess it depends on one's location because I didn't see it was bragging at all and I was surprised to hear people thinking that way.

Almost everyone I know makes at least six figures but I live in the NY/NJ area so if you're not making that you are behind. So it was interesting to me to hear that as bragging.

 
matuski said:
I didn't mean that to disparage anyone making less... just the OP was getting piled on over it, which seemed weird.
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I don't think the OP was getting piled on for how much he makes.  He was getting piled on for the short, and rather smug way that his original post reads.   Go back and read it--all it basically says is "I make decent money, but I'm asking for a lot more--will hear back on Monday"--with no background or accompanying information to invite any sort of insightful conversation.  I could easily see how many would read that and interpret it as being a smug humble brag.  

 
Johnny Rock said:
Really? You think I started this thread to say I make six figures? It was for context. 

Seemingly nobody bats an eye when people mention they lost out on a bidding war for a $1.9M house or their extra property at the beach is doing pretty well. :shrug:  

What fun is there in posting about it afterward? 
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I don't know why you started it.  It would have been a lot more useful if you explained your situation or at least why you deserved such a large raise.  How exactly does someone work long enough to believe they are underpaid by 53%?  Why didn't you have a conversation when you were underpaid by 20% or 30%?  Are you able to retire or have another job offer somewhere?  Did you think about the consequences if they told you to f* off?  

 
Bacon is Delicious said:
I can't imagine somebody coming in asking for a 53% raise ISN'T a take it or leave it scenario in the employers mind.

:shrug:  
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For anybody that thinks this way DO NOT TRY THIS yourself! I take no responsibility. 

My situation, like all situations, is unique. You have to know your place, be prepared, confident and have their respect to pull this off. I’ve been here a long time. It’s a nuanced conversation an of course has to be done in person in order to read non-verbals. 

I conceded up front that many of my benefits are great but in doing research and talking to a few recruiters (although I’m not interviewing, which I told him), the salary is low. I wanted to shock him to move the needle but I also said it’s not a hard number. At any hint of a “I can’t go that high” comment during the conversation I would reiterate that it’s to show a range. He knows. 

 
Johnny Rock said:
Mainly because I believe a bigger correction is a long time coming and I have the data and recruiter input to back it up, the boss said it was a good time to negotiate raises finally and I had a direct hand in millions of dollars in new revenue increases and expense reductions. My job is always evolving and presenting new challenges.
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This type of information would have been good to know.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I don't think the OP was getting piled on for how much he makes.  He was getting piled on for the short, and rather smug way that his original post reads.   Go back and read it--all it basically says is "I make decent money, but I'm asking for a lot more--will hear back on Monday"--with no background or accompanying information to invite any sort of insightful conversation.  I could easily see how many would read that and interpret it as being a smug humble brag.  
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I didn’t want to write a book in the OP and lay out twenty points but I could’ve done much better. I should’ve left off the stupid salary comment. I apologize as it changed the tone.

If I wasn’t going to elaborate in the OP I should’ve just left it blank because the thread title speaks for itself. 

 
Johnny Rock said:
You all got me to change my mind about commingling the company match with my items. I’ll wait on that. 

Asking for more allows you to concede some so both sides win. Things like Bonus. Backdating the salary increase which I will bring up later. Of course he can say no. 
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:thumbup:

 
tjnc09 said:
I don't know why you started it.  It would have been a lot more useful if you explained your situation or at least why you deserved such a large raise.  How exactly does someone work long enough to believe they are underpaid by 53%?  Why didn't you have a conversation when you were underpaid by 20% or 30%?  Are you able to retire or have another job offer somewhere?  Did you think about the consequences if they told you to f* off?  
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There are a lot of great things at my job that I’ve negotiated over the years. Two months vacation. Company car, gas and maintenance plus it’s grossed up at the end of the year to offset tax liability. This is about salary. He has made it clear over the years that he likes giving those other things because salary compounds along with payroll taxes, 401k, etc. 

No doubt it’s a little embarrassing to admit that I believe I’m underpaid. But I’ve fought hard in the past too and got some great raises because if you don’t you’re stuck with a COLA every year that is essentially based on your original starting salary way back when. Switching jobs is usually the option to get the big increases. I’ve gone a different route. 

I cannot retire nor do I have another job offer, although he doesn’t know that. I believe part of the shocking request is the underlying theme that I’m confident, prepared, calculating, and I must be crazy enough to float such an idea because I know something. 

I am actually prepared to leave if I have to (my wife wants to move to FL and we’ve looked at houses) but this negotiation isn’t going to end my employment. I’m due for a raise and he’s said so. 

 
RUSF18 said:
Nothing a higher up likes more than to get a compensation demand, negotiate back, come to an agreement, and then get asked for something else on top of it. 
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That's the american way!  ESPECIALLY for the higher ups.

 
Johnny Rock said:
There are a lot of great things at my job that I’ve negotiated over the years. Two months vacation. Company car, gas and maintenance plus it’s grossed up at the end of the year to offset tax liability. This is about salary. He has made it clear over the years that he likes giving those other things because salary compounds along with payroll taxes, 401k, etc. 

No doubt it’s a little embarrassing to admit that I believe I’m underpaid. But I’ve fought hard in the past too and got some great raises because if you don’t you’re stuck with a COLA every year that is essentially based on your original starting salary way back when. Switching jobs is usually the option to get the big increases. I’ve gone a different route. 

I cannot retire nor do I have another job offer, although he doesn’t know that. I believe part of the shocking request is the underlying theme that I’m confident, prepared, calculating, and I must be crazy enough to float such an idea because I know something. 

I am actually prepared to leave if I have to (my wife wants to move to FL and we’ve looked at houses) but this negotiation isn’t going to end my employment. I’m due for a raise and he’s said so. 
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Two months vacation and you want a 53% raise? You are already away from work over 15% of the year. I don't think you are worth what you think.

 
Warhogs said:
Two months vacation and you want a 53% raise? You are already away from work over 15% of the year. I don't think you are worth what you think.
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I negotiated vacation in past years, sometimes in lieu of larger raises. Should I have turned them down? Don’t you think the boss knew that if he gave me that vacation that I might be gone those cumulative days?

Just because you have vacation days doesn’t mean they’re always used. 

Unless I’m outside of network coverage I’m almost never “away” from work, even on vacation. Is anybody anymore? Comes with the territory in many positions. 

What’s wrong with wanting a large raise? The audacity? 

 
Johnny Rock said:
I didn’t want to write a book in the OP and lay out twenty points but I could’ve done much better. I should’ve left off the stupid salary comment. I apologize as it changed the tone.

If I wasn’t going to elaborate in the OP I should’ve just left it blank because the thread title speaks for itself. 
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I get what you are saying--but I don't think it was a sound move to leave out all information out of your original post completely.  You didn't need to write a "book"--but possibly a very general outline with a few bullet points would have been perfect.   By leaving soo much out you have put yourself in a position to where you are leaving decently lengthy replies to follow up questions left by other posters--on top of the ambiguous tone that it created.  If you tally up your replies--you probably costed yourself far more time and effort than it would have taken you to have just put a bit more into your first post.  Regardless--I certainly hope that you get your raise.  Good luck.  

 
For your current salary and that kind of raise, unless you were making me millions, I would have immediately left you and went to HR to find your replacement. After a replacement was found, I would walk you out and wish you luck with that raise.  People that do that will keep doing that or always be out looking for that next job that will pay them more. I would rather cut bait now and find a reliable and loyal person. 

 
UncleZen said:
For your current salary and that kind of raise, unless you were making me millions, I would have immediately left you and went to HR to find your replacement. After a replacement was found, I would walk you out and wish you luck with that raise.  People that do that will keep doing that or always be out looking for that next job that will pay them more. I would rather cut bait now and find a reliable and loyal person. 
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He's been there 20 years

 
UncleZen said:
For your current salary and that kind of raise, unless you were making me millions, I would have immediately left you and went to HR to find your replacement. After a replacement was found, I would walk you out and wish you luck with that raise.  People that do that will keep doing that or always be out looking for that next job that will pay them more. I would rather cut bait now and find a reliable and loyal person. 
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I’m thinking you didn’t read the thread. Amirite? But you have it ALL figured out with your preconceived biases.

I do make him millions. I’ve been here since the beginning as his first hire and the value of his company has increased by well over $100MM in that time. 

We have no HR. I am HR among many, many other things. 

I’ve been here 20+ years already so obviously I haven’t been skipping to new jobs every two years for more money very often. Or never. Would that qualify for reliable and loyal status by your definition?

 
Aerial Assault said:
Johnny Rock said:
Thanks. [ . . . ]  I was speaking in dollars. 
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As do we all. 
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I’m not sure I understand your post. 

My boss and many others love to change the conversation to funny money by quoting raises as percentages.

“Oooh, you earned a 2.5% raise! Great job.” Meanwhile we all know it’s a COLA (Cost of Living Adjustment) and actually equals $.48 per hour (ex. $40,000 per year).

 
Johnny Rock said:
I’m not sure I understand your post. 

My boss and many others love to change the conversation to funny money by quoting raises as percentages.

“Oooh, you earned a 2.5% raise! Great job.” Meanwhile we all know it’s a COLA (Cost of Living Adjustment) and actually equals $.48 per hour (ex. $40,000 per year).
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ok

 
Love the outrage here. How dare he ask for that kind of raise, yet he as data to show he is under paid, and has been for quite some time, and that it would cost that much to replace him with an unknown new hire. 

Is it just human nature to hate on someone that is doing well and trying to get more/what they are worth? 

I hope you get all 53 percent and then some. Good luck. 

 
Johnny Rock said:
Make six figures and asked for a 53% raise today.

He wanted to talk about it further tomorrow over the phone but I said it’s important enough to wait until Monday when we can talk in person again.
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What happens if they come back and say "Johnny, we had IT run some numbers and we have found that 53% is exactly the amount of time you spend per day fiddle f&cking around on some site called FootballGuys.com specifically the "where to get cheap cialis thread."  Now then, here's what we're willing to do, we're going to put in a new firewall rule to block that website, we're going to put you on a corrective action notice, monitor your productivity along with your web and phone traffic for the next 30 days and then afterwards meet up with you and your manager to track your progress.  Please sign this form acknowledging that you understand this measure." 

Good luck with the raise Johnny, it just wouldn't be the FBG forums if some wiseass wasn't busting your balls! :)   

 
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Johnny Rock said:
I thought other salaried employees might be emboldened to ask for much more than they think they will receive. Despite it looking like a look at me thread, I really meant it to be about the process of a raise request that’s kind of out there on the normal scale. I actually was prepared for more schtick and ripping. Oh well.
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This is a sophomoric attempt at a humble brag.  To suggest that you started the thread under the pretence of “how can we all learn from this” only makes it more gauch.  But hey, congrats.  What big balls you have.  

 
Johnny Rock said:
I’m thinking you didn’t read the thread. Amirite? But you have it ALL figured out with your preconceived biases.

I do make him millions. I’ve been here since the beginning as his first hire and the value of his company has increased by well over $100MM in that time. 

We have no HR. I am HR among many, many other things. 

I’ve been here 20+ years already so obviously I haven’t been skipping to new jobs every two years for more money very often. Or never. Would that qualify for reliable and loyal status by your definition?
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First, good luck getting your raise.

Here is my perspective/advice...based on assumption that may or may not be valid:

Have you factored the 8 weeks vacation, company car and other uncommon perks into the comp comparisons you are getting from recruiters?  Please do so because your boss (owner?) will.

Focus your discussion on the unique value YOU bring NOT the value the company has increased over the past 20 years.  Fwiw, doesn't sound like you did that in the conversation but I am recommendingredients you don't do it in your own head either.  Also, while I obviously don't know the specific details of your company I find it difficult to put a $100+ million value on a $50 million revenue company with 500 employees.  If you own the real estate on which the 25 stores sit then it might makes sense.  Anyway, stay away from conflating the value of your company with your value.  Also, you mention HR responsibilities and fwiw unless you can point directly to sales/revenues that will be lost if you leave then it is gonna be hard to make the case for sig comp increase.

What I really liked about what you wrote previously was what would need to be paid to replace you and the uncertainty within. THIS is a winning strategy IMO, but again look at the TOTALLY comp, not just the salary.

Lastly, the ugly truth is that by staying anywhere for 20 years will nearly guarantee that you are underpaid.  Job switchers get raises to move, fail and then get another raise to move again.  As such, these somewhat incompetent job switchers being overpaid are what drive the inequity.  That is, your boss likely isn't trying to screw you it's just that other hires are raising the comp base and creating the inequity in the process.  

Anyway, just my opinion.  Good luck!

 
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