Assani's Poker Thread (1 Viewer)

[Assani Fisher]

ugh.....been within $200-$500 of the $2000 goal for the past few hours, just can't seem to reach it. Maybe starting to play worse trying to take some chances. May take a breakfast break to clear my head, we'll see.

 

[noleswin]

Assani,

How does running hot at a level over such a short amount of time mean that your game is at a level that you would justify moving up limits? Should there not be a # of hands at each level to give the experience as well as the bankroll.

Like I said before you have stars in you eyes man. Every time you run good you look to imediately jump up putting a larger amount of your bank roll at risk and I don't see the the amount that you net increasing that much, but the amount at risk is higher. Maybe not but it seems that way.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Assani,How does running hot at a level over such a short amount of time mean that your game is at a level that you would justify moving up limits? Should there not be a # of hands at each level to give the experience as well as the bankroll. Like I said before you have stars in you eyes man. Every time you run good you look to imediately jump up putting a larger amount of your bank roll at risk and I don't see the the amount that you net increasing that much, but the amount at risk is higher. Maybe not but it seems that way.

I think I can already beat $10/20 and higher. Right now, I want to be playing $25/50 and forget this low limit stuff. Doing this is tough enough for me patience wise....I feel as if this is me giving in a lot already. I feel as if winning 10 buy ins at 5 different levels(1/2, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10, and 10/20) could not be attributed to just running hot over a short period of time and if I do this quest then I will have 'earned' the right to play $25/50 like I want.Edited to add: Also, I put in around 3000-4000 hands today. Thats the equivalent of playing around 150+ hours live. Its not that small of a sample size.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Alright I'm getting too tired to continue. Ended up winning $1529 so far at $1/2. Gonna go get some breakfast then maybe go to bed. Hopefully i can reach $2/4 tomorrow.

 

[Otis]

3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?

 

[Woz]

Ugh, think I'm getting sick....just slept for near 5 hours....hopefully I can play through the night, but I'm not sure. But back at it now for the meantime....

how many hours do you play in a day? I heard lots of pros like Negreanu limit themselves to playing poker for no more than 8 hours a day and quit regardles of their run. What do you think of that?I only play occassionally and I always tell myself "I'm not sitting for more than 6 hours" but I might lose a big hand near the end or am running hot and want to keep playing - which then causes me to play when my concentration dips say 8 hours after I started and I make some costly calls.

 

[Woz]

3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?

I think in another post he stated that the quality of player at this table is simply too high that he could never play consistently better whereas w/ Omaha he's got a shot.

 

[fasteddie_21]

Assani,How does running hot at a level over such a short amount of time mean that your game is at a level that you would justify moving up limits? Should there not be a # of hands at each level to give the experience as well as the bankroll. Like I said before you have stars in you eyes man. Every time you run good you look to imediately jump up putting a larger amount of your bank roll at risk and I don't see the the amount that you net increasing that much, but the amount at risk is higher. Maybe not but it seems that way.

I think I can already beat $10/20 and higher. Right now, I want to be playing $25/50 and forget this low limit stuff. Doing this is tough enough for me patience wise....I feel as if this is me giving in a lot already. I feel as if winning 10 buy ins at 5 different levels(1/2, 2/4, 3/6, 5/10, and 10/20) could not be attributed to just running hot over a short period of time and if I do this quest then I will have 'earned' the right to play $25/50 like I want.Edited to add: Also, I put in around 3000-4000 hands today. Thats the equivalent of playing around 150+ hours live. Its not that small of a sample size.

noleswin is right, imo. Now, I know that it's just a matter of time til Assani goes back up there but he's right. And yes, 3-4k of hands is a drop in the bucket bro and you know it. I know guys (myself included) who have gone on 30k hand downswings and 30k hand breakeven stretches. Does that mean I'm not a good player? Not at all. I think I'm one of the better 200NL players on FT, but it's gonna happen.As for bankroll requirements, I think that as long as you have 20+ BI's for your level you're ok, AS LONG AS YOU'RE WILLING TO MOVE DOWN. If you're not, then 40+ is the minimum since the games have gotten much more tough over the last year.Assani has a #### load of gamble in him in certain areas and while I think it's VERY important to have to be able to move up, I do hope that I can impart some BR management/wisdom onto him when we move-in next week. I think we're going to be for e/o, poker-wise.Nonetheless, congrats on you running well, gb and knock'em dead today!

 

[fasteddie_21]

Ugh, think I'm getting sick....just slept for near 5 hours....hopefully I can play through the night, but I'm not sure. But back at it now for the meantime....

how many hours do you play in a day? I heard lots of pros like Negreanu limit themselves to playing poker for no more than 8 hours a day and quit regardles of their run. What do you think of that?I only play occassionally and I always tell myself "I'm not sitting for more than 6 hours" but I might lose a big hand near the end or am running hot and want to keep playing - which then causes me to play when my concentration dips say 8 hours after I started and I make some costly calls.

I know y'all didn't ask me, but I thought I'd butt in anyway I can't speak for Assani, but when I play live, I can put in 14-18 hours sessions w/o any noticeable affect on my "A" game. Online, however, I can only play 1-2 hours at a time and break my 'work day' into 2-4 sessions thru a day. Now, Assani does't use Poker Tracker (which is a large mistake, imo...they have one for Omaha too ya know), but I tend to base my session length on # of hands vs time elapsed. I know some guys that put in 8-10 hours straight, but I simply am not cut out for that...my "A" game goes south far before that. I think it's different for everyone, but as long as you know your personal range, then as long as you know/learn to quit once you feel you're off your "A" game, then you'll be fine.And Otis, in regards to what you said, when you get up to the higher limits/nose bleeds at NLHE, it's mostly HU play and the guys who are there now (durr, cts, etc) are so good and know optimal and explotive play to such a lvl that I don't know that anyone will ever have any significant long-term edge over players like that. Might you/they/someone have a small edge, short-term? Sure, but in PLO, there are few 'masters' of the game that it's possible to have a larger advantage over many players. Like RFW said, there is MUCH less good reading material out there for PLO vs HE.HTH's.

 

[Alias]

A Omaha Hi/Lo point system

I think AF only plays Omaha High.

 

[munga30]

Thank you, sir...PokerStars Game #15870577237: Tournament #79246462, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (12500/25000) - 2008/03/09 - 23:36:37 (ET)Table '79246462 819' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: uncpeej (647705 in chips) Seat 2: tsarrast (1007473 in chips) Seat 3: Locutus2002 (226014 in chips) Seat 4: Reesy (658667 in chips) Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 (435119 in chips) Seat 6: jacksup (935837 in chips) Seat 7: jwvdcw (289770 in chips) Seat 8: TheKark (370000 in chips) Seat 9: aricontre (701861 in chips) uncpeej: posts the ante 2500tsarrast: posts the ante 2500Locutus2002: posts the ante 2500Reesy: posts the ante 2500Rguzzo1986: posts the ante 2500jacksup: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts the ante 2500TheKark: posts the ante 2500aricontre: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts small blind 12500TheKark: posts big blind 25000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [As Ac]aricontre: folds uncpeej: folds tsarrast: folds Locutus2002: folds Reesy: folds Rguzzo1986: folds jacksup: raises 55000 to 80000jwvdcw: raises 207270 to 287270 and is all-inTheKark: folds jacksup: calls 207270*** FLOP *** [Qc 7s 4h]*** TURN *** [Qc 7s 4h] [3s]*** RIVER *** [Qc 7s 4h 3s] [Ks]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)jacksup: shows [6h 8d] (high card King)jwvdcw collected 622040 from potjwvdcw said, "icy pots, friend"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 622040 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 7s 4h 3s Ks]Seat 1: uncpeej folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: tsarrast folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Locutus2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Reesy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jacksup (button) showed [6h 8d] and lost with high card KingSeat 7: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (622040) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: TheKark (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: aricontre folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just realized that villian in this hand was Matt Matros....wow thats horrible.

It's not nearly that bad, IMO. He's calling 207 to win 634 so he only needs about 32% equity to break even in chip EV. If you could jam over his obv steal with any pair or any ace, he's got 34% equity. It's a quarter of his stack and he can knock you out, so he's not crippled by losing and there's extra benefits to moving up the prize ladder. Against that hand range I think it's thin but positive $ EV to call. It becomes worse when comparing the assumption against your range when, as discussed later in this thread, you're thought to be somewhat nitty.

 

[Assani Fisher]

3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?

High stakes I'd consider $25/50 online and up I guess. I can't beat them because they're hard.....I mean seriously, its a bunch of great players playing day in and day out and its often shorthanded. If I table select well, I may have a slight edge, but even then the variance would annoy the hell out of me.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Ugh, think I'm getting sick....just slept for near 5 hours....hopefully I can play through the night, but I'm not sure. But back at it now for the meantime....

how many hours do you play in a day? I heard lots of pros like Negreanu limit themselves to playing poker for no more than 8 hours a day and quit regardles of their run. What do you think of that?I only play occassionally and I always tell myself "I'm not sitting for more than 6 hours" but I might lose a big hand near the end or am running hot and want to keep playing - which then causes me to play when my concentration dips say 8 hours after I started and I make some costly calls.

I play for as long as I feel like it. Don't play when I don't want to, and I don't play when I'm not playing well(usually). Yesterday aside from eating and sleeping, I played poker for the entire day. Today may be similar. Some days I'll take the day off. I think limiting yourself to 8 hours if you still are enjoying it and want to play more is a bad idea.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Now, Assani does't use Poker Tracker (which is a large mistake, imo...they have one for Omaha too ya know),

I've actually purchased both the HE and Omaha pokertrackers and the poker ace huds and all that crap...but that was on my old computer and I forget the passwords and everything. If I continue with Omaha and enjoy it then I'll have you help me set it all up and I'll start to use it.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Thank you, sir...PokerStars Game #15870577237: Tournament #79246462, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (12500/25000) - 2008/03/09 - 23:36:37 (ET)Table '79246462 819' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: uncpeej (647705 in chips) Seat 2: tsarrast (1007473 in chips) Seat 3: Locutus2002 (226014 in chips) Seat 4: Reesy (658667 in chips) Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 (435119 in chips) Seat 6: jacksup (935837 in chips) Seat 7: jwvdcw (289770 in chips) Seat 8: TheKark (370000 in chips) Seat 9: aricontre (701861 in chips) uncpeej: posts the ante 2500tsarrast: posts the ante 2500Locutus2002: posts the ante 2500Reesy: posts the ante 2500Rguzzo1986: posts the ante 2500jacksup: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts the ante 2500TheKark: posts the ante 2500aricontre: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts small blind 12500TheKark: posts big blind 25000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [As Ac]aricontre: folds uncpeej: folds tsarrast: folds Locutus2002: folds Reesy: folds Rguzzo1986: folds jacksup: raises 55000 to 80000jwvdcw: raises 207270 to 287270 and is all-inTheKark: folds jacksup: calls 207270*** FLOP *** [Qc 7s 4h]*** TURN *** [Qc 7s 4h] [3s]*** RIVER *** [Qc 7s 4h 3s] [Ks]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)jacksup: shows [6h 8d] (high card King)jwvdcw collected 622040 from potjwvdcw said, "icy pots, friend"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 622040 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 7s 4h 3s Ks]Seat 1: uncpeej folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: tsarrast folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Locutus2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Reesy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jacksup (button) showed [6h 8d] and lost with high card KingSeat 7: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (622040) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: TheKark (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: aricontre folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just realized that villian in this hand was Matt Matros....wow thats horrible.

It's not nearly that bad, IMO. He's calling 207 to win 634 so he only needs about 32% equity to break even in chip EV. If you could jam over his obv steal with any pair or any ace, he's got 34% equity. It's a quarter of his stack and he can knock you out, so he's not crippled by losing and there's extra benefits to moving up the prize ladder. Against that hand range I think it's thin but positive $ EV to call. It becomes worse when comparing the assumption against your range when, as discussed later in this thread, you're thought to be somewhat nitty.

You're ignoring the fact that he got himself in that spot by raising a large amount with 68os. If I have $100 and raise to $50 with a random hand, then yes it would be the "right call" to call my last $50 when someone raises....that doesn't mean my play wasn't horrible.

 

[Assani Fisher]

alright, starting up again...

 

[Otis]

3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?

High stakes I'd consider $25/50 online and up I guess. I can't beat them because they're hard.....I mean seriously, its a bunch of great players playing day in and day out and its often shorthanded. If I table select well, I may have a slight edge, but even then the variance would annoy the hell out of me.

See I consider 10/20 to be high stakes -- crushing that game would yield some serious l00t.

 

[munga30]

Thank you, sir...PokerStars Game #15870577237: Tournament #79246462, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (12500/25000) - 2008/03/09 - 23:36:37 (ET)Table '79246462 819' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: uncpeej (647705 in chips) Seat 2: tsarrast (1007473 in chips) Seat 3: Locutus2002 (226014 in chips) Seat 4: Reesy (658667 in chips) Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 (435119 in chips) Seat 6: jacksup (935837 in chips) Seat 7: jwvdcw (289770 in chips) Seat 8: TheKark (370000 in chips) Seat 9: aricontre (701861 in chips) uncpeej: posts the ante 2500tsarrast: posts the ante 2500Locutus2002: posts the ante 2500Reesy: posts the ante 2500Rguzzo1986: posts the ante 2500jacksup: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts the ante 2500TheKark: posts the ante 2500aricontre: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts small blind 12500TheKark: posts big blind 25000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [As Ac]aricontre: folds uncpeej: folds tsarrast: folds Locutus2002: folds Reesy: folds Rguzzo1986: folds jacksup: raises 55000 to 80000jwvdcw: raises 207270 to 287270 and is all-inTheKark: folds jacksup: calls 207270*** FLOP *** [Qc 7s 4h]*** TURN *** [Qc 7s 4h] [3s]*** RIVER *** [Qc 7s 4h 3s] [Ks]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)jacksup: shows [6h 8d] (high card King)jwvdcw collected 622040 from potjwvdcw said, "icy pots, friend"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 622040 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 7s 4h 3s Ks]Seat 1: uncpeej folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: tsarrast folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Locutus2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Reesy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jacksup (button) showed [6h 8d] and lost with high card KingSeat 7: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (622040) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: TheKark (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: aricontre folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just realized that villian in this hand was Matt Matros....wow thats horrible.

It's not nearly that bad, IMO. He's calling 207 to win 634 so he only needs about 32% equity to break even in chip EV. If you could jam over his obv steal with any pair or any ace, he's got 34% equity. It's a quarter of his stack and he can knock you out, so he's not crippled by losing and there's extra benefits to moving up the prize ladder. Against that hand range I think it's thin but positive $ EV to call. It becomes worse when comparing the assumption against your range when, as discussed later in this thread, you're thought to be somewhat nitty.

You're ignoring the fact that he got himself in that spot by raising a large amount with 68os. If I have $100 and raise to $50 with a random hand, then yes it would be the "right call" to call my last $50 when someone raises....that doesn't mean my play wasn't horrible.

Not ignoring it at all. I only thought that your comment was directed to his call of your big all-in because, IMO, that's the more unsure spot. Trying to steal a 60k pot from the button with 86o against two players with much smaller stacks is a much much much easier and more defensible play to make.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Thank you, sir...PokerStars Game #15870577237: Tournament #79246462, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XXIII (12500/25000) - 2008/03/09 - 23:36:37 (ET)Table '79246462 819' 9-max Seat #6 is the buttonSeat 1: uncpeej (647705 in chips) Seat 2: tsarrast (1007473 in chips) Seat 3: Locutus2002 (226014 in chips) Seat 4: Reesy (658667 in chips) Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 (435119 in chips) Seat 6: jacksup (935837 in chips) Seat 7: jwvdcw (289770 in chips) Seat 8: TheKark (370000 in chips) Seat 9: aricontre (701861 in chips) uncpeej: posts the ante 2500tsarrast: posts the ante 2500Locutus2002: posts the ante 2500Reesy: posts the ante 2500Rguzzo1986: posts the ante 2500jacksup: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts the ante 2500TheKark: posts the ante 2500aricontre: posts the ante 2500jwvdcw: posts small blind 12500TheKark: posts big blind 25000*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [As Ac]aricontre: folds uncpeej: folds tsarrast: folds Locutus2002: folds Reesy: folds Rguzzo1986: folds jacksup: raises 55000 to 80000jwvdcw: raises 207270 to 287270 and is all-inTheKark: folds jacksup: calls 207270*** FLOP *** [Qc 7s 4h]*** TURN *** [Qc 7s 4h] [3s]*** RIVER *** [Qc 7s 4h 3s] [Ks]*** SHOW DOWN ***jwvdcw: shows [As Ac] (a pair of Aces)jacksup: shows [6h 8d] (high card King)jwvdcw collected 622040 from potjwvdcw said, "icy pots, friend"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot 622040 | Rake 0 Board [Qc 7s 4h 3s Ks]Seat 1: uncpeej folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 2: tsarrast folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 3: Locutus2002 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: Reesy folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: Rguzzo1986 folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 6: jacksup (button) showed [6h 8d] and lost with high card KingSeat 7: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [As Ac] and won (622040) with a pair of AcesSeat 8: TheKark (big blind) folded before FlopSeat 9: aricontre folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Just realized that villian in this hand was Matt Matros....wow thats horrible.

It's not nearly that bad, IMO. He's calling 207 to win 634 so he only needs about 32% equity to break even in chip EV. If you could jam over his obv steal with any pair or any ace, he's got 34% equity. It's a quarter of his stack and he can knock you out, so he's not crippled by losing and there's extra benefits to moving up the prize ladder. Against that hand range I think it's thin but positive $ EV to call. It becomes worse when comparing the assumption against your range when, as discussed later in this thread, you're thought to be somewhat nitty.

You're ignoring the fact that he got himself in that spot by raising a large amount with 68os. If I have $100 and raise to $50 with a random hand, then yes it would be the "right call" to call my last $50 when someone raises....that doesn't mean my play wasn't horrible.

Not ignoring it at all. I only thought that your comment was directed to his call of your big all-in because, IMO, that's the more unsure spot. Trying to steal a 60k pot from the button with 86o against two players with much smaller stacks is a much much much easier and more defensible play to make.

We're going to have to agree to disagree then because I think raising to 80K there with 86os considering everyone's stack size is an absolutely horrendous play.

 

[Assani Fisher]

3. I can't beat high stakes NLHE cash games online.

This seems like the more interesting question. Why not? If you beat those games, there's HUGE money to be had. What are you considering "high stakes"?

High stakes I'd consider $25/50 online and up I guess. I can't beat them because they're hard.....I mean seriously, its a bunch of great players playing day in and day out and its often shorthanded. If I table select well, I may have a slight edge, but even then the variance would annoy the hell out of me.

See I consider 10/20 to be high stakes -- crushing that game would yield some serious l00t.

Indeed, but nobody CRUSHES that game.

 

[Assani Fisher]

And I made it! Was $5 away from the goal, so I called a flop bet with absolutely nothing just to make it and hit runner-runner flush...go me! Gonna take a short break then start the $2/4 tonight.

 

[Txns8]

And I made it! Was $5 away from the goal, so I called a flop bet with absolutely nothing just to make it and hit runner-runner flush...go me! Gonna take a short break then start the $2/4 tonight.

Sounds good. I've got some $25/$50 PLO fired up right now. Wait, that's $0.25/$0.50 PLO fired up. Good luck

 

[Assani Fisher]

fell asleep, starting the $2/4 now

 

[Assani Fisher]

getting more used to things and theres only 2 "fast" tables running, so I'm gonna try to 6 table here

 

[The Ref]

getting more used to things and theres only 2 "fast" tables running, so I'm gonna try to 6 table here

I have a hard enough time in Omaha with a single table.

 

[Assani Fisher]

omg these guys play bad....back to back hands here

PokerStars Game #15919831122: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 01:57:44 (ET)

Table 'Woltjer II' 6-max Seat #2 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($513.45 in chips)

Seat 2: osubuc1981 ($538.05 in chips)

Seat 3: CopenhagenLC ($306.80 in chips)

Seat 4: restnoway ($547.65 in chips)

Seat 5: Hoppe3 ($435.50 in chips)

CopenhagenLC: posts small blind $2

restnoway: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [6c 8d 9c 7d]

Hoppe3: calls $4

jwvdcw: raises $14 to $18

osubuc1981: calls $18

CopenhagenLC: folds

restnoway: calls $14

Hoppe3: calls $14

*** FLOP *** [6h 5c 9d]

restnoway: checks

Hoppe3: checks

jwvdcw: bets $36

osubuc1981: calls $36

restnoway: folds

Hoppe3: folds

*** TURN *** [6h 5c 9d] [4d]

jwvdcw: checks

osubuc1981: checks

*** RIVER *** [6h 5c 9d 4d] [As]

jwvdcw: bets $64

osubuc1981: raises $64 to $128

jwvdcw: raises $331.45 to $459.45 and is all-in

osubuc1981: folds

jwvdcw collected $400 from pot

jwvdcw: doesn't show hand

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $402 | Rake $2

Board [6h 5c 9d 4d As]

Seat 1: jwvdcw collected ($400)

Seat 2: osubuc1981 (button) folded on the River

Seat 3: CopenhagenLC (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: restnoway (big blind) folded on the Flop

Seat 5: Hoppe3 folded on the Flop

PokerStars Game #15919847421: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 01:59:11 (ET)

Table 'Woltjer II' 6-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($731.45 in chips)

Seat 2: osubuc1981 ($356.05 in chips)

Seat 3: CopenhagenLC ($304.80 in chips)

Seat 4: restnoway ($529.65 in chips)

Seat 5: Hoppe3 ($417.50 in chips)

restnoway: posts small blind $2

Hoppe3: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [Qc As 3d Js]

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

osubuc1981: calls $14

CopenhagenLC is disconnected

CopenhagenLC is connected

CopenhagenLC: folds

restnoway: calls $12

Hoppe3: calls $10

*** FLOP *** [Ah Ts Ks]

restnoway: checks

Hoppe3: checks

jwvdcw: bets $24

osubuc1981: calls $24

restnoway: folds

Hoppe3: folds

*** TURN *** [Ah Ts Ks] [9h]

jwvdcw: bets $68

osubuc1981: calls $68

*** RIVER *** [Ah Ts Ks 9h] [5h]

jwvdcw: checks

osubuc1981: bets $52

jwvdcw: calls $52

*** SHOW DOWN ***

osubuc1981: shows [7h 4s 6s Qs] (high card Ace)

jwvdcw: shows [Qc As 3d Js] (a straight, Ten to Ace)

jwvdcw collected $342 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $344 | Rake $2

Board [Ah Ts Ks 9h 5h]

Seat 1: jwvdcw showed [Qc As 3d Js] and won ($342) with a straight, Ten to Ace

Seat 2: osubuc1981 showed [7h 4s 6s Qs] and lost with high card Ace

Seat 3: CopenhagenLC (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 4: restnoway (small blind) folded on the Flop

Seat 5: Hoppe3 (big blind) folded on the Flop

 

[weisguy0831]

sure its easy when you flop a monster ... lol

 

[Assani Fisher]

sure its easy when you flop a monster and the guy calls you down while drawing dead ... lol

fyp

 

[Assani Fisher]

bluff bet sizing ftw

PokerStars Game #15920077820: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:20:30 (ET)

Table 'Nashira III' 6-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: amirjon ($185.40 in chips)

Seat 2: dlorgere ($378.70 in chips)

Seat 3: noynoy777 ($1127.20 in chips)

Seat 4: jwvdcw ($423.95 in chips)

Seat 5: PDX-JMc ($394 in chips)

Seat 6: WILDMANLUCK ($145 in chips)

dlorgere: posts small blind $2

noynoy777: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [5c 3c 2s As]

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

PDX-JMc: folds

WILDMANLUCK: folds

amirjon: calls $14

dlorgere: folds

noynoy777: folds

*** FLOP *** [Qc 2c 9c]

jwvdcw: checks

amirjon: bets $8

jwvdcw: calls $8

*** TURN *** [Qc 2c 9c] [Kh]

jwvdcw: checks

amirjon: bets $16

jwvdcw: calls $16

*** RIVER *** [Qc 2c 9c Kh] [Jc]

jwvdcw: checks

amirjon: bets $36

jwvdcw: calls $36

*** SHOW DOWN ***

amirjon: shows [4d 9d 7h 7s] (a pair of Nines)

jwvdcw: shows [5c 3c 2s As] (a flush, Queen high)

jwvdcw collected $151 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $154 | Rake $3

Board [Qc 2c 9c Kh Jc]

Seat 1: amirjon (button) showed [4d 9d 7h 7s] and lost with a pair of Nines

Seat 2: dlorgere (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 3: noynoy777 (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: jwvdcw showed [5c 3c 2s As] and won ($151) with a flush, Queen high

Seat 5: PDX-JMc folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 6: WILDMANLUCK folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[Assani Fisher]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....

I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply). I think this below hand illustrates the point. At first I was gonna bet $36 or $40, but I thought about it and decided a pot sized bet was much better.

PokerStars Game #15920091652: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:21:51 (ET)

Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($471.80 in chips)

Seat 2: GIANT CAT ($207 in chips)

Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT ($161.60 in chips)

Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 ($140.40 in chips)

Seat 6: SlayGosu ($135.80 in chips)

GIANT CAT: posts small blind $2

AZ F1n3sT: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [Qd Th Ks Jc]

8ivyleague8: raises $10 to $14

SlayGosu: folds

4JesseJames4 joins the table at seat #3

jwvdcw: calls $14

GIANT CAT: calls $12

AZ F1n3sT: calls $10

*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Jh]

GIANT CAT: checks

AZ F1n3sT: checks

8ivyleague8: checks

jwvdcw: checks

*** TURN *** [3d 8c Jh] [9d]

GIANT CAT: checks

AZ F1n3sT: checks

8ivyleague8: checks

jwvdcw: bets $54

GIANT CAT: folds

AZ F1n3sT: folds

8ivyleague8: folds

jwvdcw collected $54 from pot

jwvdcw: doesn't show hand

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $56 | Rake $2

Board [3d 8c Jh 9d]

Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) collected ($54)

Seat 2: GIANT CAT (small blind) folded on the Turn

Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT (big blind) folded on the Turn

Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 folded on the Turn

Seat 6: SlayGosu folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[Assani Fisher]

ouch

PokerStars Game #15920784339: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 03:39:38 (ET)

Table 'Woltjer II' 6-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($792.65 in chips)

Seat 3: ready4all863 ($87.25 in chips)

Seat 4: Hikkespett ($479.60 in chips)

Seat 5: greenrizla ($529.30 in chips)

ready4all863: posts small blind $2

Hikkespett: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [5h Js Ad Ac]

greenrizla: folds

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

ready4all863: raises $32 to $46

Hikkespett: raises $106 to $152

jwvdcw: raises $350 to $502

ready4all863: calls $41.25 and is all-in

Hikkespett: calls $327.60 and is all-in

*** FLOP *** [3s 7s 2h]

*** TURN *** [3s 7s 2h] [7c]

*** RIVER *** [3s 7s 2h 7c] [Jh]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

Hikkespett: shows [Ah 7d Qs As] (three of a kind, Sevens)

jwvdcw: mucks hand

Hikkespett collected $784.70 from side pot

ready4all863: mucks hand

Hikkespett collected $259.75 from main pot

ogdundar joins the table at seat #2

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $1046.45 Main pot $259.75. Side pot $784.70. | Rake $2

Board [3s 7s 2h 7c Jh]

Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) mucked [5h Js Ad Ac]

Seat 3: ready4all863 (small blind) mucked [Td Ks 2s Kd]

Seat 4: Hikkespett (big blind) showed [Ah 7d Qs As] and won ($1044.45) with three of a kind, Sevens

Seat 5: greenrizla folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[Assani Fisher]

seriously?

PokerStars Game #15920877433: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 03:51:25 (ET)

Table 'Behrens' 6-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 3: AttyBubba ($435 in chips)

Seat 4: Supereminent ($448.70 in chips)

Seat 5: Chensta ($110.65 in chips)

Seat 6: jwvdcw ($518.60 in chips)

Supereminent: posts small blind $2

Chensta: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [3d Qd Ac 8c]

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

AttyBubba: calls $14

Supereminent: folds

Chensta: calls $10

*** FLOP *** [6h 8d 3s]

Chensta: bets $42

jwvdcw: raises $42 to $84

AttyBubba: folds

Chensta: calls $42

*** TURN *** [6h 8d 3s] [Jd]

Chensta: checks

jwvdcw: bets $16

Chensta: calls $12.65 and is all-in

*** RIVER *** [6h 8d 3s Jd] [6c]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

Chensta: shows [Qc Kc 6d 4s] (three of a kind, Sixes)

jwvdcw: mucks hand

Chensta collected $235.30 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $237.30 | Rake $2

Board [6h 8d 3s Jd 6c]

Seat 3: AttyBubba (button) folded on the Flop

Seat 4: Supereminent (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 5: Chensta (big blind) showed [Qc Kc 6d 4s] and won ($235.30) with three of a kind, Sixes

Seat 6: jwvdcw mucked [3d Qd Ac 8c]

 

[Moe.]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply). I think this below hand illustrates the point. At first I was gonna bet $36 or $40, but I thought about it and decided a pot sized bet was much better.PokerStars Game #15920091652: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:21:51 (ET)Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: jwvdcw ($471.80 in chips) Seat 2: GIANT CAT ($207 in chips) Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT ($161.60 in chips) Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 ($140.40 in chips) Seat 6: SlayGosu ($135.80 in chips) GIANT CAT: posts small blind $2AZ F1n3sT: posts big blind $4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [Qd Th Ks Jc]8ivyleague8: raises $10 to $14SlayGosu: folds 4JesseJames4 joins the table at seat #3 jwvdcw: calls $14GIANT CAT: calls $12AZ F1n3sT: calls $10*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Jh]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: checks *** TURN *** [3d 8c Jh] [9d]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: bets $54GIANT CAT: folds AZ F1n3sT: folds 8ivyleague8: folds jwvdcw collected $54 from potjwvdcw: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $56 | Rake $2 Board [3d 8c Jh 9d]Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) collected ($54)Seat 2: GIANT CAT (small blind) folded on the TurnSeat 4: AZ F1n3sT (big blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: 8ivyleague8 folded on the TurnSeat 6: SlayGosu folded before Flop (didn't bet)

why not just check on the turn?

 

[Assani Fisher]

running just great here

PokerStars Game #15920934975: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 03:58:53 (ET)

Table 'Sergestus IV' 6-max Seat #3 is the button

Seat 1: TheRattler ($60 in chips)

Seat 2: folz04 ($491.60 in chips)

Seat 3: ELHUE ($131.05 in chips)

Seat 4: tomy carwash ($206.25 in chips)

Seat 5: jwvdcw ($392 in chips)

Seat 6: ogdundar ($390 in chips)

tomy carwash: posts small blind $2

jwvdcw: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [7c 2d Ah Ac]

ogdundar: folds

TheRattler: raises $4 to $8

folz04: folds

ELHUE: folds

tomy carwash: calls $6

jwvdcw: raises $24 to $32

TheRattler: calls $24

tomy carwash: calls $24

*** FLOP *** [Jc Kd 2s]

tomy carwash: checks

jwvdcw: bets $40

TheRattler: calls $28 and is all-in

tomy carwash: calls $40

*** TURN *** [Jc Kd 2s] [3c]

tomy carwash: checks

jwvdcw: checks

*** RIVER *** [Jc Kd 2s 3c] [Qd]

tomy carwash: checks

jwvdcw: checks

*** SHOW DOWN ***

tomy carwash: shows [9d 2h 4s Qh] (two pair, Queens and Deuces)

jwvdcw: mucks hand

tomy carwash collected $24 from side pot

TheRattler: mucks hand

tomy carwash collected $177 from main pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $204 Main pot $177. Side pot $24. | Rake $3

Board [Jc Kd 2s 3c Qd]

Seat 1: TheRattler mucked [8s As Kc 9c]

Seat 2: folz04 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 3: ELHUE (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 4: tomy carwash (small blind) showed [9d 2h 4s Qh] and won ($201) with two pair, Queens and Deuces

Seat 5: jwvdcw (big blind) mucked [7c 2d Ah Ac]

Seat 6: ogdundar folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[Assani Fisher]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply). I think this below hand illustrates the point. At first I was gonna bet $36 or $40, but I thought about it and decided a pot sized bet was much better.PokerStars Game #15920091652: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:21:51 (ET)Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: jwvdcw ($471.80 in chips) Seat 2: GIANT CAT ($207 in chips) Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT ($161.60 in chips) Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 ($140.40 in chips) Seat 6: SlayGosu ($135.80 in chips) GIANT CAT: posts small blind $2AZ F1n3sT: posts big blind $4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [Qd Th Ks Jc]8ivyleague8: raises $10 to $14SlayGosu: folds 4JesseJames4 joins the table at seat #3 jwvdcw: calls $14GIANT CAT: calls $12AZ F1n3sT: calls $10*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Jh]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: checks *** TURN *** [3d 8c Jh] [9d]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: bets $54GIANT CAT: folds AZ F1n3sT: folds 8ivyleague8: folds jwvdcw collected $54 from potjwvdcw: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $56 | Rake $2 Board [3d 8c Jh 9d]Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) collected ($54)Seat 2: GIANT CAT (small blind) folded on the TurnSeat 4: AZ F1n3sT (big blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: 8ivyleague8 folded on the TurnSeat 6: SlayGosu folded before Flop (didn't bet)

why not just check on the turn?

Why would I check the nuts when last to act with tons of draws out there against multiple opponents?

 

[weisguy0831]

that's the problem i hit in the very short time i played PLO today. major suckouts.

 

[Moe.]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply). I think this below hand illustrates the point. At first I was gonna bet $36 or $40, but I thought about it and decided a pot sized bet was much better.PokerStars Game #15920091652: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:21:51 (ET)Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: jwvdcw ($471.80 in chips) Seat 2: GIANT CAT ($207 in chips) Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT ($161.60 in chips) Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 ($140.40 in chips) Seat 6: SlayGosu ($135.80 in chips) GIANT CAT: posts small blind $2AZ F1n3sT: posts big blind $4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [Qd Th Ks Jc]8ivyleague8: raises $10 to $14SlayGosu: folds 4JesseJames4 joins the table at seat #3 jwvdcw: calls $14GIANT CAT: calls $12AZ F1n3sT: calls $10*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Jh]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: checks *** TURN *** [3d 8c Jh] [9d]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: bets $54GIANT CAT: folds AZ F1n3sT: folds 8ivyleague8: folds jwvdcw collected $54 from potjwvdcw: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $56 | Rake $2 Board [3d 8c Jh 9d]Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) collected ($54)Seat 2: GIANT CAT (small blind) folded on the TurnSeat 4: AZ F1n3sT (big blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: 8ivyleague8 folded on the TurnSeat 6: SlayGosu folded before Flop (didn't bet)

why not just check on the turn?

Why would I check the nuts when last to act with tons of draws out there against multiple opponents?

i dunno. you could still fold if a diamond hits, and theres no way anyone gets a better straight. maybe someone would have hit a lower straight on the river. unless i am reading it wrong you are only in for 14, right?

 

[Assani Fisher]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply). I think this below hand illustrates the point. At first I was gonna bet $36 or $40, but I thought about it and decided a pot sized bet was much better.PokerStars Game #15920091652: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:21:51 (ET)Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: jwvdcw ($471.80 in chips) Seat 2: GIANT CAT ($207 in chips) Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT ($161.60 in chips) Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 ($140.40 in chips) Seat 6: SlayGosu ($135.80 in chips) GIANT CAT: posts small blind $2AZ F1n3sT: posts big blind $4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [Qd Th Ks Jc]8ivyleague8: raises $10 to $14SlayGosu: folds 4JesseJames4 joins the table at seat #3 jwvdcw: calls $14GIANT CAT: calls $12AZ F1n3sT: calls $10*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Jh]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: checks *** TURN *** [3d 8c Jh] [9d]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: bets $54GIANT CAT: folds AZ F1n3sT: folds 8ivyleague8: folds jwvdcw collected $54 from potjwvdcw: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $56 | Rake $2 Board [3d 8c Jh 9d]Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) collected ($54)Seat 2: GIANT CAT (small blind) folded on the TurnSeat 4: AZ F1n3sT (big blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: 8ivyleague8 folded on the TurnSeat 6: SlayGosu folded before Flop (didn't bet)

why not just check on the turn?

Why would I check the nuts when last to act with tons of draws out there against multiple opponents?

i dunno. you could still fold if a diamond hits, and theres no way anyone gets a better straight. maybe someone would have hit a lower straight on the river. unless i am reading it wrong you are only in for 14, right?

Yea, only in for 14, but I'm completely baffled by what your suggesting here. Any flush card or any board pairing and I'm going to have to lay down my hand to a river bet. Theres $50+ in the pot thats mine for the taking....why should I give people a completely free draw to it?? What exactly are you hoping for, that they hit a worse straight and pay off a small river bet? How does that make up for all the times where they'll draw out on me and I lose that $50?

 

[Assani Fisher]

alright, time to take a break

PokerStars Game #15921087159: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 04:19:01 (ET)

Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #6 is the button

Seat 1: jwvdcw ($392 in chips)

Seat 2: eazyduzit04 ($1022.20 in chips)

Seat 3: DONBA32 ($66.40 in chips)

Seat 4: ogdundar ($400 in chips)

Seat 6: GlenQuagmire ($478 in chips)

jwvdcw: posts small blind $2

eazyduzit04: posts big blind $4

Goldenfaith: sits out

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [Ad As 7h Js]

DONBA32: folds

ogdundar: raises $10 to $14

GlenQuagmire: folds

jwvdcw: calls $12

eazyduzit04: folds

*** FLOP *** [9s Th Ts]

jwvdcw: checks

ogdundar: bets $20

jwvdcw: calls $20

*** TURN *** [9s Th Ts] [5c]

jwvdcw: checks

ogdundar: checks

*** RIVER *** [9s Th Ts 5c] [Ah]

jwvdcw: bets $40

ogdundar: raises $75 to $115

jwvdcw: raises $243 to $358 and is all-in

ogdundar: calls $243

*** SHOW DOWN ***

jwvdcw: shows [Ad As 7h Js] (a full house, Aces full of Tens)

ogdundar: shows [8d 6d Td Tc] (four of a kind, Tens)

ogdundar collected $786 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $788 | Rake $2

Board [9s Th Ts 5c Ah]

Seat 1: jwvdcw (small blind) showed [Ad As 7h Js] and lost with a full house, Aces full of Tens

Seat 2: eazyduzit04 (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 3: DONBA32 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 4: ogdundar showed [8d 6d Td Tc] and won ($786) with four of a kind, Tens

Seat 6: GlenQuagmire (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

 

[Assani Fisher]

and as I'm playing around to my blinds....

PokerStars Game #15921099483: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 04:20:41 (ET)

Table 'Behrens' 6-max Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: DONBA32 ($37.60 in chips)

Seat 2: LOLIMON ($294.90 in chips)

Seat 4: Supereminent ($483.45 in chips)

Seat 5: mestrefilipe ($641 in chips)

Seat 6: jwvdcw ($544.10 in chips)

LOLIMON: posts small blind $2

Supereminent: posts big blind $4

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [2h Ac 6d Jc]

mestrefilipe: folds

jwvdcw: raises $10 to $14

DONBA32: raises $23.60 to $37.60 and is all-in

LOLIMON: folds

AttyBubba has returned

Supereminent: folds

jwvdcw: calls $23.60

*** FLOP *** [8h Td Th]

*** TURN *** [8h Td Th] [4h]

*** RIVER *** [8h Td Th 4h] [Js]

*** SHOW DOWN ***

jwvdcw: shows [2h Ac 6d Jc] (two pair, Jacks and Tens)

DONBA32: shows [Jh 4d 9h 2d] (a flush, Jack high)

DONBA32 collected $79.20 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $81.20 | Rake $2

Board [8h Td Th 4h Js]

Seat 1: DONBA32 (button) showed [Jh 4d 9h 2d] and won ($79.20) with a flush, Jack high

Seat 2: LOLIMON (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: Supereminent (big blind) folded before Flop

Seat 5: mestrefilipe folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 6: jwvdcw showed [2h Ac 6d Jc] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Tens

 

[weisguy0831]

this is a crazy MF game. the variance has to be higher here than NLHE, right?

for example:

i'm dealt Kc Ks 7d 8d

I raise the pot. Next guy goes all-in for a little more. SB calls. I repop it the size of the pot. Now, I started with about $7 in this hand and the reraise takes it to about $4.50 or so.

SB calls again.

Flop comes Q 8 4 rainbow.

SB checks. I bet my last $2.50. He calls with 9 654. 9 on the turn and sucks out on me.

Just awful play. Wish I had more money at FT to run this ******* down.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply)...

Disagree, this is NL thinking. By not betting the pot, you reduce what you can bet on later rounds. Do not slow play big hands in pot limit by checking. You always want to building that pot, even with a moster, so you can get paid if they make their weaker draw.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply). I think this below hand illustrates the point. At first I was gonna bet $36 or $40, but I thought about it and decided a pot sized bet was much better.PokerStars Game #15920091652: Omaha Pot Limit ($2/$4) - 2008/03/12 - 02:21:51 (ET)Table 'Melanie III' 6-max Seat #1 is the buttonSeat 1: jwvdcw ($471.80 in chips) Seat 2: GIANT CAT ($207 in chips) Seat 4: AZ F1n3sT ($161.60 in chips) Seat 5: 8ivyleague8 ($140.40 in chips) Seat 6: SlayGosu ($135.80 in chips) GIANT CAT: posts small blind $2AZ F1n3sT: posts big blind $4*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jwvdcw [Qd Th Ks Jc]8ivyleague8: raises $10 to $14SlayGosu: folds 4JesseJames4 joins the table at seat #3 jwvdcw: calls $14GIANT CAT: calls $12AZ F1n3sT: calls $10*** FLOP *** [3d 8c Jh]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: checks *** TURN *** [3d 8c Jh] [9d]GIANT CAT: checks AZ F1n3sT: checks 8ivyleague8: checks jwvdcw: bets $54GIANT CAT: folds AZ F1n3sT: folds 8ivyleague8: folds jwvdcw collected $54 from potjwvdcw: doesn't show hand *** SUMMARY ***Total pot $56 | Rake $2 Board [3d 8c Jh 9d]Seat 1: jwvdcw (button) collected ($54)Seat 2: GIANT CAT (small blind) folded on the TurnSeat 4: AZ F1n3sT (big blind) folded on the TurnSeat 5: 8ivyleague8 folded on the TurnSeat 6: SlayGosu folded before Flop (didn't bet)

why not just check on the turn?

Why would I check the nuts when last to act with tons of draws out there against multiple opponents?

Because it is silly in pot limit. It is even sillier in Omaha where any board pair is likely a full house and any diamond greatly threatens a flush. A straight is a very vulnerable hand in Omaha with a card to come against even two opponents.

 

[Assani Fisher]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply)...

Disagree, this is NL thinking. By not betting the pot, you reduce what you can bet on later rounds. Do not slow play big hands in pot limit by checking. You always want to building that pot, even with a moster, so you can get paid if they make their weaker draw.

Maybe I didn't illustrate my point well(I still could be wrong and if so then tell me, but let me try to restate what I meant first).....Lets take 3 hand examples here:1. I raise preflop with AKT8 double suited. BB calls, all else fold. Flop comes 257 rainbow. I have flopped virtually nothing. BB checks to me.2. I raise preflop with AA27 single suited, BB calls, all else fold. Flop comes 257 rainbow. I most likely still have the best hand with my AA, but its vulnerable and if he plays back at me then its likely I'm beat. BB checks to me.3. I raise preflop with 5678 double suited, BB calls, all else fold. Flop comes 257 rainbow. I have flopped a huge hand. He checks to me.Lets assume that its $2/4 and I raised to $14 preflop so the pot is now $30. In all of these cases my standard play here is to bet $20. With case #1 I'm most likely done if he calls and obviously done if he raises(although if the turn is check-check and he checks the river then I may fire again if I have nothing or check if I've picked up a high pair). With case #2 if he flat calls then its an interesting decision on the turn and if he raises I'm folding. With #3 I'm hoping he plays back at me and I continue to fire and will play for my whole stack here.However, as you can see, I don't want to give anything away with my bet sizing. Now I'll listen to your arguments, but I think that this is a pretty optimal way to play. I cannot see an argument for betting the pot with #3 but not with the #1 or #2 as that gives my hand away. If you're advocating betting the pot in all 3 cases, then I'll listen to your reasoning before deciding how I feel about that.What I think I was doing wrong(and what I was saying above) is that I was also applying these principles of "not giving my hand away" in cases like the hand i played above- that was a clear mistake on my part. In that hand, if I bet into 3 opponents it gives away my hand(or at least severely narrows down my range) no matter how much I bet, so I'm better off just betting the pot to cut down on any pot odds their draws may have.

 

[Assani Fisher]

this is a crazy MF game. the variance has to be higher here than NLHE, right?for example:i'm dealt Kc Ks 7d 8dI raise the pot. Next guy goes all-in for a little more. SB calls. I repop it the size of the pot. Now, I started with about $7 in this hand and the reraise takes it to about $4.50 or so.SB calls again. Flop comes Q 8 4 rainbow.SB checks. I bet my last $2.50. He calls with 9 654. 9 on the turn and sucks out on me. Just awful play. Wish I had more money at FT to run this ******* down.

I would not have put in a 3rd raise preflop with KK there. Also it had to be more than "a little more" if it reopened the betting to you, no?As for variance, I'm not sure yet. I definitely think my style is going to cause me wild swings since I'm pretty aggressive.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

One thing I'm still struggling with and trying to learn a bit is my own bet sizing actually.....I will often continuation bet and/or bluff scare cards(something people don't do nearly enough imo) so often when I have the nuts I'll bet the same amount(around 5/8 of the pot usually). Obviously I do this for deception so that my bluffs and value bets look the same. However what I need to realize is that there are times when no matter if I bet 5/8 pot, 3/4 pot, 1/2 pot, or the entire pot its going to give away my hand- In spots like these its best to simply charge the draws an entire pot sized bet(unless of course your hand is so strong and/or the possible draws so weak that you want them to be drawing even if its cheaply)...

Disagree, this is NL thinking. By not betting the pot, you reduce what you can bet on later rounds. Do not slow play big hands in pot limit by checking. You always want to building that pot, even with a moster, so you can get paid if they make their weaker draw.

Maybe I didn't illustrate my point well(I still could be wrong and if so then tell me, but let me try to restate what I meant first).....Lets take 3 hand examples here:1. I raise preflop with AKT8 double suited. BB calls, all else fold. Flop comes 257 rainbow. I have flopped virtually nothing. BB checks to me.2. I raise preflop with AA27 single suited, BB calls, all else fold. Flop comes 257 rainbow. I most likely still have the best hand with my AA, but its vulnerable and if he plays back at me then its likely I'm beat. BB checks to me.3. I raise preflop with 5678 double suited, BB calls, all else fold. Flop comes 257 rainbow. I have flopped a huge hand. He checks to me.Lets assume that its $2/4 and I raised to $14 preflop so the pot is now $30. In all of these cases my standard play here is to bet $20. With case #1 I'm most likely done if he calls and obviously done if he raises(although if the turn is check-check and he checks the river then I may fire again if I have nothing or check if I've picked up a high pair). With case #2 if he flat calls then its an interesting decision on the turn and if he raises I'm folding. With #3 I'm hoping he plays back at me and I continue to fire and will play for my whole stack here.However, as you can see, I don't want to give anything away with my bet sizing. Now I'll listen to your arguments, but I think that this is a pretty optimal way to play. I cannot see an argument for betting the pot with #3 but not with the #1 or #2 as that gives my hand away. If you're advocating betting the pot in all 3 cases, then I'll listen to your reasoning before deciding how I feel about that.What I think I was doing wrong(and what I was saying above) is that I was also applying these principles of "not giving my hand away" in cases like the hand i played above- that was a clear mistake on my part. In that hand, if I bet into 3 opponents it gives away my hand(or at least severely narrows down my range) no matter how much I bet, so I'm better off just betting the pot to cut down on any pot odds their draws may have.

I just think you bet the pot on all three- for some very simple reasons. Also, your example won't really illustrate why, because it matters less heads up and more multiway.First, I want the mental pressure on my opponents that if they are in a hand with me and I bet, I am going to bet the pot every step of the way.Situation 1- heads up- if you get called, betting 20 would save you 10 bucks. This is slightly offset by the fact that you would likely get more folds if you bet 30.Situation 2 is similar to 1. you might lose ten extra dollars here. If you get played back at, you shut it down. A call is a tricky situationSituation 3, especially multiway, is why you bet the pot in every case. Let's say it is three players with 45 in the pot. A 2/3 bet is 30- it puts 75 in the pot. Two calls make it 135. Turn makes a straight. You bet 2/3 again- 90. Two more calls $405. River you fill up and bet 2/3 again, $270. THis time you get only one call. You take down 945.Now, play this out if you bet the pot each round.Pot sizereflop $45On the flop: $180On the Turn: $720On the river: (one call) $2160.So, you pot sizing deception that saved you $20ish dollars in the first two situations just cost you $1200 here. You must bet the pot in situation one and two, because you need to max out your top hands. In NL, this is not a concern, because you can bet whatever you want on the turn and river. Not so in pot limit. If you haven't build a big pot with your monster draw, you can't win a monster pot when it hits. By betting anything less than the pot, you are reducing you potential winnings every round in pot limit. You might argue a compelling argument for pot sizing on the river to induce more calls. On the flop and turn, hammer away.

 

[FBGPoker]

I've heard shortstacking PLO cash games is a great way to make money since it takes away a lot of your opponents moves and frusterates many people causing them to play bad.

Any thoughts on shortstacking and ratholing the PLO cash games?

 

[weisguy0831]

explain to me why i am shutting down in hand 2. i mean, i know what beats me, but i also know what would play back at me that i beat. assani misrepresented his hand by accident. he actually has top and bottom pair with 72.

again, i'm very new to PLO, so I'll sit back and listen as to why I'm wrong.

 

[rabidfireweasel]

I've heard shortstacking PLO cash games is a great way to make money since it takes away a lot of your opponents moves and frusterates many people causing them to play bad.Any thoughts on shortstacking and ratholing the PLO cash games?

I think short stacking is an adequate position for average players that are likely to get outplayed- because they likely be getting the correct odds when they call al in and give the opponent no implied odds if the bet all in and the opponent is on the draw.Fundamentally, I am a believer that you want to have aas many people covered as possible. It allows you maximize your monsters. Set over set, which is infrequent is hold 'em happens all the time in Omaha. You also stack people regularly by going in with the same hand as them but having redraws. In those situations, you want to have people covered.

 

[FBGPoker]

I've heard shortstacking PLO cash games is a great way to make money since it takes away a lot of your opponents moves and frusterates many people causing them to play bad.Any thoughts on shortstacking and ratholing the PLO cash games?

I think short stacking is an adequate position for average players that are likely to get outplayed- because they likely be getting the correct odds when they call al in and give the opponent no implied odds if the bet all in and the opponent is on the draw.Fundamentally, I am a believer that you want to have aas many people covered as possible. It allows you maximize your monsters. Set over set, which is infrequent is hold 'em happens all the time in Omaha. You also stack people regularly by going in with the same hand as them but having redraws. In those situations, you want to have people covered.

thanks, that makes a lot of sense.I personally don't like shortstacking, but have talked to people who love doing it in the PLO cash games since like you said it is easy to get in with good equity and not have to worry about later streets. When i see people shortstacking it drives many of the players in the game crazy and throws some off their game so it probably has an added advantage in that sense.