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Assani's Poker Thread (1 Viewer)

My interpretation of events is that 75% of it was caused by Moneymaker being broke and not wanting to spend the 15k. 25% was him sticking up for himself and not allowing himself to be scammed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the multi-millionaire hillbilly has been taken advantage of financially quite a few times in the last ten years. If you're truly being scammed I don't think it's entirely out of line to refuse to contribute money to what essentially is a ponzi scheme. It's one thing to be known as a guy who pays his bets, but you don't want to be known as a sucker who can be taken advantage of.

 
That was a strange thread. Like others said, it's sad to see a guy that wins $2.5 million plus a ton of endorsements(along with freerolls in practically every tourney he's played since) being in a spot where he can't pay a 15k debt.

One thing that didn't make sense to me(and maybe it was explained somewhere in the thread. I skimmed most of it) is why does Moneymaker owe Jason Young any money at all? From the wording of it all, JY was just an agent for the bookie. Others in that thread that are owed money from that bookie were told by Jason Young that the bookie skipped town so he couldn't pay them. Why would Moneymaker owe money to Jason Young when there is no bookie around anymore? Maybe I'm failing at understanding the whole relationship between bookie and agent since I do all my sports betting online, but enlighten me if you will.
His take-home was probably 1.5mm at best after taxes from the WSOP win. Another million in winnings since, but depending on the way you live, you can burn through that pretty quickly.

 
That was a strange thread. Like others said, it's sad to see a guy that wins $2.5 million plus a ton of endorsements(along with freerolls in practically every tourney he's played since) being in a spot where he can't pay a 15k debt.

One thing that didn't make sense to me(and maybe it was explained somewhere in the thread. I skimmed most of it) is why does Moneymaker owe Jason Young any money at all? From the wording of it all, JY was just an agent for the bookie. Others in that thread that are owed money from that bookie were told by Jason Young that the bookie skipped town so he couldn't pay them. Why would Moneymaker owe money to Jason Young when there is no bookie around anymore? Maybe I'm failing at understanding the whole relationship between bookie and agent since I do all my sports betting online, but enlighten me if you will.
His take-home was probably 1.5mm at best after taxes from the WSOP win. Another million in winnings since, but depending on the way you live, you can burn through that pretty quickly.
I think his dad had half his action as well. I also saw in the thread someone mentioned in his college days he once lost like 45k on one weekend of college basketball, so it sounds like he has always had gambling issues. I wouldn't be surprised if his '03 WSOP winnings lasted less than a year.

 
I really wonder if some of the traits that help someone become a great NLHE player -- having a ton of gamble and being able to forget about the money -- make it impossible for them to succeed with money IRL. At the very least there seem to be few people who can do it.

 
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That was a strange thread. Like others said, it's sad to see a guy that wins $2.5 million plus a ton of endorsements(along with freerolls in practically every tourney he's played since) being in a spot where he can't pay a 15k debt.

One thing that didn't make sense to me(and maybe it was explained somewhere in the thread. I skimmed most of it) is why does Moneymaker owe Jason Young any money at all? From the wording of it all, JY was just an agent for the bookie. Others in that thread that are owed money from that bookie were told by Jason Young that the bookie skipped town so he couldn't pay them. Why would Moneymaker owe money to Jason Young when there is no bookie around anymore? Maybe I'm failing at understanding the whole relationship between bookie and agent since I do all my sports betting online, but enlighten me if you will.
His take-home was probably 1.5mm at best after taxes from the WSOP win. Another million in winnings since, but depending on the way you live, you can burn through that pretty quickly.
I think his dad had half his action as well. I also saw in the thread someone mentioned in his college days he once lost like 45k on one weekend of college basketball, so it sounds like he has always had gambling issues. I wouldn't be surprised if his '03 WSOP winnings lasted less than a year.
The book "Moneymaker" is an excellent read. He provided a very open and honest look at his life.

Here is the story on how he won the satellite and who ended up providing his stake.

===================================

After winning the initial $39 satellite Moneymaker found himself in the main satellite for the WSOP Main Event, and he had one thing on his mind… finishing in 4th place!

Why 4th place? As it turned out, the satellite tournament would hand out three seats to the WSOP Main Event, and the 4th place finisher would receive $8,000 in cash; a prize Moneymaker coveted far more than the latent value of the Main Event seat.

As the tournament progressed, and it looked like a seat to the WSOP Main Event was all but secured, Chris made his move and started playing for fourth.

At this point Moneymaker’s friend Bruce Peery, who was railing Chris in the tournament, gave him a call, as Moneymaker explained in the Grantland article:

He called me up and said, “What are you doing?” And I said, “I’m trying to get fourth place.” And he’s like, “Dude, don’t do that. Take the dang seat! You’ll never get to play in that tournament ever again.” But I said, “Why do I want to play against the best in the world? I play as a hobby. I’m playing for my house.” But Bruce convinced me to go after the seat after promising me $5,000 in exchange for half my action. So I went ahead and won the seat.

Contingency Plans

With the Main Event just a week away, Bruce Peery ended up backing-out of the staking deal he had agreed to during the satellite, leaving Moneymaker to scramble at the last minute to find a new backer, or backers as it would turn out.

Chris first went where we would all go if faced with such a situation, Dad. After he managed to secure $2,000 from his father, and I’m not making this up, another $2,000 from a friend named David Gamble, Chris was on his way to Las Vegas – so a guy named Gamble backed a guy named Moneymaker in the WSOP Main Event: Hollywood would call that script “too farfetched” but it was in fact reality.

Going to Vegas

It’s hard to say what Chris Moneymaker needed the stake money for (you can get to Vegas and stay for a week for far less than $4k), and it was probably used for a number of things including travelling expenses, paying bills, and perhaps even some gambling money in his pocket for the Vegas trip, but one thing is definitely for certain, Chris, PokerStars, and his backers, struck gold in Las Vegas.

Chris showed up at Binion’s to register for the 2003 WSOP Main Event along with the 38 other qualifiers PokerStars sent to the Main Event in 2003, and like his online qualifier brethren Chris was decked out in a PokerStars branded hat and polo shirt, just one of 39 players considered dead money at the time but somehow his father had a feeling, as he relayed in the Grantland article:

You know how you get one of those weird feelings? As soon as he called me and told me he’d won the seat, I had this feeling that he’s gonna win the darn thing. I told my wife about it, but I wish I’d written it down and sealed it and put it in a safe-deposit box.

And the rest, as the saying so often goes, is history.

P.S. How would you like to be Bruce Peery, knowing you let $1.25 million slip through your fingers? Not to mention being relegated to a mere footnote in one of the most legendary stories in poker history?

 
I don't understand how mm figured he didn't owe his bets. If a company is cash strapped and having trouble paying vendors that doesn't give customers a right to not pay the original company for services rendered. How is this different?
Think of it like this. Let's say you had never heard of the Nigerian scammers and you agree via email to send one of them $500 via Western Union and they tell you that in a few weeks you will receive $2500. On your way to send the money you call your family to notify them of the deal. They inform you that you are never going to get paid and that it's all a scam. Once you realize that it's a scam and there is zero expectation of getting paid, you decide not to send the Western Union even though you already made an agreement with the Nigerian to send the money.

 
You guys know Assani is in the Bet, Raise, Fold documentary that came out a few months ago. He did nice push ups but hell it is a FBG on the big screen plus he can do push ups, most of us can't.

 
I don't understand how mm figured he didn't owe his bets. If a company is cash strapped and having trouble paying vendors that doesn't give customers a right to not pay the original company for services rendered. How is this different?
It's not really a service rendered when the company you are betting with can't pay you if you win.

So if they are not going to pay you if you win, why should you pay them when you lose?

 
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Ok, I guess. But I would think that in that sector being know as a guy that pays his bets would go a really really long way for future action.
Being known as a guy who will take a bet from someone who can't afford to pay it will certainly help you to get future action, but not in a good way.
 
Couldn't deal with Otis' antiquated views on weed, and decided to take a break from the thread for a while. Catching back up....

First off I don't want anything from you. I don't know how to explain this but if I borrow 300 from someone I make it a point to remember. I was really drunk but I have a good memory. You didn't get a lapper you went to buy or smoke with a girl. For about an hour.
So this appears to be what happened...

1. We met up and got drunk

2. I borrowed money from you to get a dance from a girl

3. I'm guessing(based on your story) that we never saw each other again while sober

4. I forgot about it

5. You're bringing it up years later

Ok, cool. First off, let me apologize and please believe me that it was completely my forgetfulness and not a deliberate attempt to steal. If you'd like me to send you a check then send me a PM. Otherwise, what can I do to make this situation better? It seems like you still are holding a grudge, and I"d like to make it right.


And to RFW, how much did Assani give you when you were down on your luck? Ask Keerock, how much I gave you.
Years ago, I think it was just after Katrina, I was headed into Texas for an exhibition and knew about a pretty soft game. I was pretty broke and the storm and family illness had wiped out my bankroll and frankly, most everything we had. Assani and I had never met, but had exchanged some writings about a possible poker book.
Long story short, Assani just sent me a check for a grand. I suggested some different deals, him getting a cut of my winnings, different ways to protect him if I lost- but he was awesome. He wanted no deal, no worries if I lost the money, just pay it back if I could. I had a hard time cashing the check on short notice ( due to issues on my end not the check) and couldn't cash it before the game. I then just decided that my head wasn't right for poker because I just needed the money too badly and it is hard for me to play right when I am thinking about the reality of the value of the money on the table, rather than just making reads and slinging chips. I tore up the check.

However, the fact that I didn't cash the check doesn't detract from the fact that Asssani sent me a grand, no strings attached with no need to repay unless I good. He will always be good people to me.

Haha, I actually don't remember this either(sending you the check, I remember your misfortune). Regardless, glad I could help in whatever way possible, and I will always be in debt to you for your poker advise that guided me early on in my career. I sincerely hope all is well.


Assani- I'm curious if you ever play at lower levels (i.e. 1/2 or 2/5 NL)? I play 1/2 in AC about once or twice a month and have been tracking my results since June. In about 110 hours, I'm netting ~ $23 an hour. I think that's a good rate but is that sustainable over a long run? The players are just so bad and I've been religiously reading 2+2. I'm just wondering if I'm on a lucky run or if it's actually sustainable. Sorry for bringing up a poker question in this thread.........
$23/hour is most definitely sustainable if you are playing well and encountering average live 1/2 and 2/5 competition


I really wonder if some of the traits that help someone become a great NLHE player -- having a ton of gamble and being able to forget about the money -- make it impossible for them to succeed with money IRL. At the very least there seem to be few people who can do it.
This is an inaccurate description of today's successful poker pro. The gambles and risks taken can be very clearly calculated using Kelly Criterion or other means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_criterion


You guys know Assani is in the Bet, Raise, Fold documentary that came out a few months ago. He did nice push ups but hell it is a FBG on the big screen plus he can do push ups, most of us can't.
:thumbup:

really good poker doumentary if anyone is interested, available for $9.99 online(google search, should be easy to find)

Poker Update: Been grinding on wsop.com last few months, leaving for Toronto to play on PokerStars in a few days, will probably stop by Fallsview for their WPT: http://www.fallsviewcasinoresort.com/content/document/fvpc-wpt_schedule.pdf

 
I posted this to twitter recently, some here might find it interesting:

For reference, here are the videos:

Hachem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DXSIv8b4KM

Negreanu's response to Hachem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-6NI0AvnIs




 
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Just scrolling down my Facebook feed and what do I see a story link for?  http://www.pokernews.com/news/2016/07/assani-fisher-enjoying-being-a-recreational-poker-player-25212.htm


DFS Pro Assani Fisher Enjoying Being a Recreational Poker Player





SHARELINES




  • Former poker player and current DFS crusher Assani Fisher is enjoying the recreational poker life.
Assani Fisher was once a successful poker player.

Online, he won more than $600,000 playing tournaments under the name "jwvdcw" on PokerStars, according to PocketFives. His live results were more modest, with cashes totaling $83,847, but without online poker stateside, Fisher had transitioned into grinding $2/$5 live games for a living.

He had failed to set himself up for the long haul despite winning results over a number of years.

"I got in at the right time and should have made a lot of money," he said. "But I was just young and stupid and played above my bankroll, etc."


 


Then, he found daily fantasy sports and his life changed. Along with his friend Aaron "aejones" Jones, Fisher has found huge financial success in DFS. He's now the No. 7 ranked player on popular DFS site RotoGrinders, where he also hosts a recurring series of video blogs.

Fisher's back on the felt now though, grinding out a few tournaments during a trip to the 2016 World Series of Poker. He arrived in Las Vegas about two weeks ago intending to play two or three tournaments in a week. Instead, he's been firing off at full throttle, playing almost every day and finding himself buying in six or seven times per week.

"I'm enjoying this," he said with a wide smile. "I like being a rich amateur now who doesn't have to make money from poker."

For many, poker is a dream job. But it's a job Fisher has had, and many players have admitted over the years that their love of the game fades as they continue to use it to grind out a living day after day.

When asked if the game is more enjoyable for him now than it used to be, Fisher said it's “not even close.”

“I don't sweat it if I make mistakes any more, it's much more relaxing,” he said. “I was shocked at how enjoyable poker is now.”

Thus far, Fisher has booked just one cash in the 2016 WSOP, coming 22nd in the $5,000 turbo for $14,862. He and Jones found themselves in the winner's circle Sunday, but it was for good friendAndrew Lichtenberger, who shipped the $3,000 No-Limit Hold'em event for $569,158.

Fisher admits his poker chops aren't what they used to be, though he hasn't been afraid to mix it up with some of the world's best tournament players, such as when he fired in the $10,000 Six-Max Championship.

He called himself a fish in that event, but he's figured out at least one way to minimize the edge some of the more skilled pros have over him: late registration. Fisher's been entering most of the tournaments just before the dinner break, when stacks are a little bit shorter and decisions are a bit less complicated.

Fisher's game is rusty, and his mind doesn't instantly process complex ranges like it used to when he was a professional poker player, putting in the work to maximize his understanding of the game. He doesn't play much online any more, and his live ventures are limited to the occasional tournament series, as he finds cash too boring now.

http://i.pokernews.com/1/b-go.php?i...g-being-a-recreational-poker-player-25212.htm
Nowadays, it's DFS that takes up the majority of his time. When he first latched on to the burgeoning industry, like many poker players who made the transition, Fisher found himself in familiar lifestyle territory.

“I needed to do a lot of work and learn everything,” he said. “It was like being an online poker pro, a lot of grinding in a room by yourself. Now that I've got the process down, I can work only four-to-five hours a day.”

Fisher paused briefly when asked if he missed anything about his old poker lifestyle.

“Bits and pieces but overall no,” he said. “[DFS is] much more relaxed and enjoyable, and the money's better so it feels unfair.”

Another similarity between poker and DFS is the continued wars over the legality of both games. Ironically, the very same bill that the U.S. government used to shut down popular online poker sites was used as a sort of legal loophole to justify the initial existence of DFS.

Legislation for both of Fisher's pastimes continues to come on a state-by-state basis. DFS legislation has been at the forefront after a number of controversies, while the battle for legalized online poker continues in states like California, New York, and Pennsylvania.

Fisher hopes lawmakers will come to their senses on both games.

“Obviously, they should both be legal,” he said. “Adults should be free to do what they want. It's all political, a bunch of bull****.”

As the 2016 WSOP rolls on, be sure to stay tuned to PokerNews for continued coverage, brought to you by our sponsors, 888poker.

Want to stay atop all the latest in the poker world? If so, make sure to get PokerNews updates on your social media outlets. Follow us on Twitter and find us on both Facebook and Google+!


http://www.pokernews.com/leagues/pokerstars-5k-freerolls/

PokerStars $5,000 Freeroll


Grab this tournament ID: 1549481658and play for a share of $5,000 on July 10
S

 
There was the one hand that I posted here. He lated told me that he had KK...

PokerStars Game #3988718739: Hold'em No Limit ($10/$20) - 2006/02/16 - 01:47:03 (ET)

Table 'Hygiea II' Seat #1 is the button

Seat 1: JohnSmiley1 ($9804.50 in chips)

Seat 3: Dieter ($3247 in chips)

Seat 4: jwvdcw ($1950 in chips)

Seat 5: Lyric ($2294 in chips)

Seat 6: arulx ($9461 in chips)

Seat 7: Baller510 ($5659.50 in chips)

Seat 8: Ohtis ($1855.10 in chips)

Seat 9: ZappyB ($1990 in chips)

Dieter: posts small blind $10

jwvdcw: posts big blind $20

*** HOLE CARDS ***

Dealt to jwvdcw [2d 5d]

Lyric: folds

arulx: folds

Baller510: folds

Ohtis: raises $40 to $60

ZappyB: folds

JohnSmiley1: folds

Dieter: folds

jwvdcw: calls $40

*** FLOP *** [Ac 4d Kd]

jwvdcw: bets $60

Ohtis: raises $60 to $120

jwvdcw said, "min. raise otis...lol..nice"

jwvdcw: calls $60

*** TURN *** [Ac 4d Kd] [Qh]

jwvdcw: checks

Ohtis: bets $360

jwvdcw: folds

Ohtis collected $367 from pot

Ohtis: doesn't show hand

*** SUMMARY ***

Total pot $370 | Rake $3

Board [Ac 4d Kd Qh]

Seat 1: JohnSmiley1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 3: Dieter (small blind) folded before Flop

Seat 4: jwvdcw (big blind) folded on the Turn

Seat 5: Lyric folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 6: arulx folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 7: Baller510 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Seat 8: Ohtis collected ($367)

Seat 9: ZappyB folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Aside from that I don't think we went up against each other much. In fact, I didn't really do much at that table at all, as I was completely card dead.
:goodposting:  

 
Sounds like Assani has transitioned to a full time fantasy player.  And while it sounds like he did pretty well at poker, the article suggests he's making a lot more with DFS.  I wonder what kind of :moneybag:  we're talking about 

 
Sounds like Assani has transitioned to a full time fantasy player.  And while it sounds like he did pretty well at poker, the article suggests he's making a lot more with DFS.  I wonder what kind of :moneybag:  we're talking about 
you should probably start a new thread and chronicle you sitting him at the $5k tables heads up in NFL DFS every week

 
Sounds like Assani has transitioned to a full time fantasy player.  And while it sounds like he did pretty well at poker, the article suggests he's making a lot more with DFS.  I wonder what kind of :moneybag:  we're talking about 
Also he still post on here in the DFS forum I believe. 

 
.25/.50 Turbo. Weird preflop question that I've always wondered about, rarely run into:

UTG raises to 3.5BB, UTG+1 shoves 240bb.

Everyone folds to you in the SB, you have 120bb. What's your calling range?

 
.25/.50 Turbo. Weird preflop question that I've always wondered about, rarely run into:

UTG raises to 3.5BB, UTG+1 shoves 240bb.

Everyone folds to you in the SB, you have 120bb. What's your calling range?
Probably depends on if I know anything about UTG+1.  Is he a maniac?  Have I seen any of his showdowns already?  Is he shoving everything other hand?

If he's totally new and I know nothing about him, I would be extra cautious and probably only call with large PP's.

 
Is .25/.50 turbo a turbo tournament or a .25/.50 cash game? 

I think Harrington did this in one of his Harrington on hold em tournament books and said ak+, qq+ was the only calling range against a wide range, but that was before Pokerstove.

But it makes sense that if his range includes kq+ and 99+ that if you have jacks you're dominated by qq kk and aa but only dominate tt and 99, and you're a flip against ak aq and kq so you're not getting enough overlay to call. So you need reason to believe that he's jamming a really wide range.

But that's cash game logic.  If this is a small stakes turbo tournament with unlimited rebuys, you not only have good enough reason to question his range, you have huge meta ev from getting huge stacks at your table at the start. You simply cannot win those tournaments if you're at a tight table early.  If the are two tables and one has 100,000 chips and the other has a million, the odds greatly favor the players at the table that has the most chips, and that means the table that has had the most rebuys and/or turnover.  Surviving to the end of the rebuy level with your initial buy in is a nightmare. Do you really want to be in a micro tournament where you need to double up twice to get an average stack, and the blinds are going up fast?

So in those cases i'd widen my range to include losing hands like A4s and kjo because i want to encourage the gamblers to gamble and let them know that I'm willing to get it in, and even if i'm horribly dominated by ak or qq im still around 25 or 30 percent to suck out. And if i don't, i can count on wider calling ranges from the rest of the table until the end of the rebuy period which has a real dollar value in meta currency. 

 
This is turbo, so no reads/info about the player.
Do you mean zoom? I'm familiar with turbo tournaments, but .25/.50 with no reads/info sounds like you're playing zoom.

I don't have a calling range here, it's AI or fold. At this level I think you'll see a lot of 99-JJ, maybe QQ. My AI range is probably AK, QQ+... sometimes AQ. Though AQ blocks combos of QQ, which makes KK slightly more likely. 

 
Do you mean zoom? I'm familiar with turbo tournaments, but .25/.50 with no reads/info sounds like you're playing zoom.

I don't have a calling range here, it's AI or fold. At this level I think you'll see a lot of 99-JJ, maybe QQ. My AI range is probably AK, QQ+... sometimes AQ. Though AQ blocks combos of QQ, which makes KK slightly more likely. 
Sorry, yes, Zoom poker.

 
My guess is UTG+1 range is mostly hands that wouldn't do as well as 5bb if they played it "straight" and a few premiums to avoid being over exploited.  Does UTG+1 cover UTG and maybe most of the table so he's not risking the whole 240bb?  

Is zoom anonymous too or are there persistent player notes?  

 
My guess is UTG+1 range is mostly hands that wouldn't do as well as 5bb if they played it "straight" and a few premiums to avoid being over exploited.  Does UTG+1 cover UTG and maybe most of the table so he's not risking the whole 240bb?  

Is zoom anonymous too or are there persistent player notes?  
I believe the latest few versions of poker tracker will give you a HUD on players in your database during zoom games. So I guess it depends on how many hours you've logged whether or not you have any kind of real insight into how the villain plays. 

I find online players at the .25/.50 level pretty comparable to live players at $1/$3. They're not skilled enough to play hands like 1010 or JJ, or even QQ post flop, so they'd rather take down a small pot pf. How many times do you hear from bad recs at a live table, "I hate JJ" or something to that effect? Usually a gross overbet like this is from a JJish type of hand. Or old dudes who don't like AK, but this is online so it's probably more of that highish pp range. 

 
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.25/.50 Turbo. Weird preflop question that I've always wondered about, rarely run into:

UTG raises to 3.5BB, UTG+1 shoves 240bb.

Everyone folds to you in the SB, you have 120bb. What's your calling range?
How much does UTG have?  Can he cover you?  

Would call with any pair and suited high stuff.   

 
My guess is UTG+1 range is mostly hands that wouldn't do as well as 5bb if they played it "straight" and a few premiums to avoid being over exploited.  Does UTG+1 cover UTG and maybe most of the table so he's not risking the whole 240bb?  

Is zoom anonymous too or are there persistent player notes?  
I believe he did have the biggest stack at the table, everyone else in the 80-120bb range.

Didnt consider it at the time, but utg may have a high card or cards, so we can take those out. Also I had JJ. Lost to AA, but feel fine about it. Think youre way more likely to see TT or 99 than AA there.

 
I believe he did have the biggest stack at the table, everyone else in the 80-120bb range.

Didnt consider it at the time, but utg may have a high card or cards, so we can take those out. Also I had JJ. Lost to AA, but feel fine about it. Think youre way more likely to see TT or 99 than AA there.
What range do you put the villain on? I plugged in AA-99, along with broadway suited aces, AK-AJo, and KQs KQo.

JJ+ and AKs have 50%+ equity against that range. 

I think it's a good call with JJ, but that's about the bottom of your +EV range. Suited connectors and lower pp don't have the raw equity vs a range like this.  

 
What range do you put the villain on? I plugged in AA-99, along with broadway suited aces, AK-AJo, and KQs KQo.

JJ+ and AKs have 50%+ equity against that range. 

I think it's a good call with JJ, but that's about the bottom of your +EV range. Suited connectors and lower pp don't have the raw equity vs a range like this.  
Pretty sure you need all the kq combinations in his range to justify ak, and all the aj combinations to justify jj. 

I don't think that's the case. 

There could be some pure bluffs though especially at micro stakes so i'll buy it. 

I think aj and kq fall in the pure bluffs category though.   3 bet shoving from utg+1 with those hands is horrendous. 

 
Pretty sure you need all the kq combinations in his range to justify ak, and all the aj combinations to justify jj. 

I don't think that's the case. 

There could be some pure bluffs though especially at micro stakes so i'll buy it. 

I think aj and kq fall in the pure bluffs category though.   3 bet shoving from utg+1 with those hands is horrendous. 
I did include KQs and KQo, as well as AJs and AJo.

But even if you take those out, JJ and AK are still profitable calls, though barely. 

Small stack sizes aside, having a 3 bet shove range here is horrendous. It's a bad play in any position.

 
Pretty sure you need all the kq combinations in his range to justify ak, and all the aj combinations to justify jj. 

I don't think that's the case. 

There could be some pure bluffs though especially at micro stakes so i'll buy it. 

I think aj and kq fall in the pure bluffs category though.   3 bet shoving from utg+1 with those hands is horrendous. 
I'm a pretty amateurish player by today's standards, but I didn't think of his range in the traditional sense, with a lower bound going all the way up to AA. Like softballguy mentioned, seems more likely for someone to shove their TT or 99 or even AQs for playability considerations, than their AA-QQ. And I also fully considered that there was a chance he was spazzing/tilting/bluffing out with suited connectors or an iffy ace, I've seen it quite a bit before, albeit for maybe 20-40bb and not 120bb effective.

Agree with fred, and not being bitter here, but AA shove is pretty poor play. The vast majority of the time you're just picking up that initial raise and the blinds. I didn't consider at the time how much lower I'd go with my range, and this is probably conservative, but maaaybe TT, probably nothing lower.

 
I'm a pretty amateurish player by today's standards, but I didn't think of his range in the traditional sense, with a lower bound going all the way up to AA. Like softballguy mentioned, seems more likely for someone to shove their TT or 99 or even AQs for playability considerations, than their AA-QQ. And I also fully considered that there was a chance he was spazzing/tilting/bluffing out with suited connectors or an iffy ace, I've seen it quite a bit before, albeit for maybe 20-40bb and not 120bb effective.

Agree with fred, and not being bitter here, but AA shove is pretty poor play. The vast majority of the time you're just picking up that initial raise and the blinds. I didn't consider at the time how much lower I'd go with my range, and this is probably conservative, but maaaybe TT, probably nothing lower.
Not so fast.  The amateurish play isn't jamming aces, but tens and nines and ace queen. 

Let's say aces are 80 percent to win against any preflop hand all in pre flop.

When utg makes it 3.5bb that puts the pot at 5bb. When you shove you consistently win 5bb or get in as an 80 percent favorite.  Both great outcomes. Losing your stack 20 percent of the time and doubling up 80 percent of the time you are called means you expect to double up 3 out of 5 times, for an expectation of 5bbs every time they fold and 60 percent of your stack every time they call. 

Obviously, you prefer a call, which is why it's great that people think calling with jj plus is good.  You hope you get a call with ace queen sometimes too. Because all the rest of the time you "wasted" your aces. 

So lets add kings to the list. Now you're, say,  75 percent to win if called by an average range.  You lose a lot to aces and too often to ace king, but you beat all the other calling hands badly, so we'll say about 75 percent for rough numbers.  When you shove you still get a lot of folds, and when called you have an expectation of 50 percent of your stack (25 percent lose, 75 percent win). Still really profitable and still really want those calls. 

But you won't get them.  People gave huds, and they have better than average information to play with.  Against your range they will (or at least should) only call with aces. So in reality, when called, you're an underdog. 

That's not good. 

So you add queens. Surprisingly queens are only about 50 percent against a range of jj+ and ak+. You're a dog against aces and kings, a favorite over jj and the good side of a flip against ak. Adding queens does expand the calling range against you, though. Hud players will now call with kk plus and they will still smoke your range. 

Adding ace queen and tens does not help your range.  Open shoving with tens turns then into a bluff where you win the blinds or are a huge dog when called.  Tens are a better hand than that.  You can play them more profitably just by set mining or bet/c bet.  You're wasting them by jamming with them, just as much as you seemed to be wasting your aces. 

But what about a4 suited. Call that a 30 percent dog against any range. You can spike an ace against kings, or a 4 against ace king, and you have some straight and flush potential when you're against bullets or your opponent improves. If you only hand jam with aces, kings and ace four suited, with exactly even probabilities of each, your range still includes the same number of hands as your aa,kk,qq range, but it's no longer profitable to call with kk. Because when you have aces, you're an 80 percent favorite, but when you have ace four his kings are only a 70 percent favorite. 

If your open shove range is tt+ and aq+, it gets absolutely smoked when called by ak+ jj+. But if your open shove range is a4, a5, and qq+, you are ahead of that range.  

And if your open shove range never includes aces, then getting called is always a nightmare.  At best you're a flip against ak. You're better off not having an open shove range than open shoving with 99-jj but not aa. You'll still gain by picking up blinds and by playing aa postflop, but you'll lose so much against hud players who call your range super profitably. 

If you knew for certain that everyone played with a hud, you would profit more by adding more hands to your range and just balancing your strong hands and bluffs. You don't even need to be profitable when called - you just need to be close enough to 50/50 that you blinds you win when everyone folds make up the rest.  But some people don't use huds, and will call with tt plus ak plus. So you have to include them in your calling range especially at stakes where people play ok but don't necessarily have a hud. And that means your range should be balanced so you're profitable against the good non hud calling range.  

Tldr - tt, 99 and aq might be in villain's shoving range here, but they should not be in yours.  

 

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