Assani's Poker Thread (1 Viewer)

[kutta]

Really? You think someone who smokes weed three times a day (at least) is going to admit he has a problem?

Do you think it's possible for a person who smokes weed 3 times a day to not have a problem?

I would say that someone who smokes weed three times a day every day for an extended period of time has a drug problem. Yes.

Please answer my question earlier. How much weed would someone have to smoke for you to consider that they have a problem?

I have ADD/turrets/severe sleep disorder....you think that I have a "drug problem" because I take weed for these things?

What if I was autistic and my parent's found that weed helped me function in ways I never could previously(many reported cases of this)....would smoking 3 times a day still be a "drug problem"?

How are you discerning between a "drug problem" and "treating your illnesses with medication"?

If an MD diagnosed you with these problems and prescribed certain doses of weed for you to take to help those problems, then fine. I still think it's dangerous, but if you are under the care of an MD I would trust their professional judgement.

I believe you have bought into a lot of media-driven narrative about "trusting your doctor." Heres the conversation that would happen if I walked into a Cali medical office(often times located exactly next door to the weed store!):

Assani: "Hey Doc, I suffer from ADD and I sleep poorly. I've illegally used weed and found it helps me a lot. Can you write me a subscription for it?"

Doctor: "Sure that'll be $100. Have a great day."

This is also exactly what happens when you "Ask your doctor if _________(insert pharmaceutical drug here) is right for you." Doctors are trying to make money. They make money by writing prescriptions and having patients want to come back to them the next time they need a different drug prescription. If you tell a doctor a list of symptoms, he'll prescribe any drug you want that will reasonably treat those symptoms.

This sounds a lot like what people who are addicted to prescription drugs say.

 

[Assani Fisher]

"How about you list what you believe the dangers of weed are."

For me personally I've found these dangers:

1. Social awkwardness and/or concentrating too much inwardly during social situations. This is by far the biggest negative of weed for me personally.

2. On days where I'm already in a bad mindstate, there is definitely a danger in smoking a ton and having an unproductive day. However, I've also had plenty of times where I've been having a bad day, I smoked, and it changed things....basically I think monitoring dosage at these times is vital, as you can definitely use weed to enhance the depressed mindstate you are already in.

3. Fatigue/tiredness....nothing a cup of coffee won't fix, but I'm definitely a little less alert and chipper right after smoking.

There are also some dangers I've heard many other people mention, but I've never personally experienced:

1. Addiction

2. gateway to harder drugs that are very dangerous

3. Inability to concentrate(this usually happens to casual smokers who get way too high one day)

Thought of some more....

1. Appetite. This can be good for skinny people who need to eat to gain muscle, but for me its a detriment as I'm naturally fairly strong but can gain fat easily if I don't watch what I eat. For me this is indeed a major downside of weed.

2. Long term memory....hard to say how much of this is just me getting older(seems like your brain only has so much room to remember stuff and eventually you have too much to keep it all) vs the weed specifically.

3. Depression...I have not experienced depression influenced/aided by weed, but for people who already are depressed I could very easily see how weed would be terrible for their depression issues.

 

[Joe T]

1. Wake up between 6:00-7:00AM, coffee and one bowl of weed as soon as I wake, surf internet for 30 minutes to an hour(but somedays I'll get caught up and end up spending 2-3 hours on something), smoke again, yoga/stretching/foam rolling, intense workout, meditation where I focus on goals for the day and mindset I want to carry with me, shower, go play poker around noon-1:00pm.

2. It helps me analyze hands AFTER playing. I smoke lots before bed(I have major sleep issues and weed is a WONDER DRUG for this specifically), and I don't limit my dosages late at night. So this is why I get really stoned and get some truly different perspectives on things....allows me to consider non-standard lines in poker hands much better than when sober.

I was on the fence on this discussion for awhile (though I do think you have an obligation to tell your backers that you smoke - something I think you have acknowledged). But this doesn't look to me like a, "I'm going to take a hit or two to increase my concentration at the table" type of thing. This looks more like a drug problem. I know you will disagree, but smoking weed three times a day without any limits in the evenings is pretty much the definition of a problem.

Maybe you've done this, but if you are insistent that you don't have a problem, why don't you stop smoking for six months and see how it goes? You are a good enough player where you should be able to still make money without the weed, but at least you would give yourself a break from that stuff and you could really see if you have a problem.

lots of people self-medicate with marijuana. why is it a problem but if they used anti-depressants or other prescription medication, it's not?

Lots of people self-medicate with heroin. Why is it a problem but if they used anti-depressants or other prescription medication it's not?

Heroin??

Assani should heed Rob Delaney's warnings imo...

On the final episode of Breaking Bad, Walt does a pot cigarette of weed and his head explodes like a bomb, killing everyone. #420NO

Does marijuana kill all its victims? I’ll answer that with another question: do all shark attack victims die? Don’t roll the dice. #420NO

My coffee & muffin this morning cost $4.20. A somber reminder that thousands of teens will OD & die on pot today. #420NO

As an exercise, throw a trashbag of cantaloupes off a church. That’s what you do to your future every time you do a marijuana. #420NO

Most young men don't even get halfway through doing a marijuana cigarette before a wolf bites off their peanus. #420NO

SPOILER ALERT!!!@?????!@!@!

 

[kutta]

And again I would like to point out that its not so much that I disagree with those expressing the anti-weed sentiments, its that I disagree with the close-minded approach many of them take to debating the issue. Kutta's "I can see we aren't going to make much progress here" is a perfect example of this....he apporoaches the debate with a mindset of "If someone drastically disagrees with me then they're probably wrong, so we're just not going to make much progress." I think its much more fruitful to approach someone having a drastically different opinion as an opportunity to learn and understand a different perspective.

How about you show me some scientific studies that show that coffee has a worse affect on your brain than smoking weed three times a day does (not just some Internet articles, actual scientific studies). You can say anything you want, but it doesn't make it true. I can say that eating ding dongs all day every day is good for me, but that doesn't mean it is.

If you want people to be open minded you are going to have to do better than make random statements and expect us all to just agree with them.

Did you even take 2 seconds to google that? WebMD article - Heavy Marijuana use doesnt damage brain

There's nothing about coffee in that article.

You are being intentionally obtuse by responding in this way. While you are technically correct that you asked him to compare coffee vs weed and that article doesn't specifically address coffee, if you were being intellectually honest then you would admit that the study he linked does indeed provide a counter-argument to your overall point. Here I'll break it down:

-Our overall argument was whether weed was closer to coffee or alcohol

-You think its closer to alcohol, and you think its to such a great degree that you said "I can see we aren't going to make much progress here"

-You asked for scientific studies regarding weed's effects, specifically about its effects on the brain. You asked for this because you wanted a scientific answer to our overall argument about weed being closer to coffee or alcohol

-EZ Glider provided a scientific study whose title states "heavy marijuana use doesn't damage the brain."

-Since we know alcohol definitely damages the brain, the body, and your overall health, this would seem to be a good indication that weed falls closer to coffee than alcohol even if the article doesn't specifically mention coffee

-You know all this and are easily smart enough to follow the logical progression I just listed here....but you chose to call him out on a technicality(the article doesn't mention coffee!) instead of trying to have a reasonable debate where you fully consider the evidence he just brought to the table.

if you read the article, the first sentence states: "Long-term and even daily marijuana use doesn't appear to cause permanent brain damage." That's a far cry from the title of the article that you quoted above.

 

[kutta]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Kutta,

There are hundreds and hundreds of studies out there- a simple google search will turn up plenty on both sides of the debate. I think that the very first thing we should do is look at who is putting out the studies. From the top of the link you posted:

A Fact Sheet on the Effects of Marijuana

This is from the Partnership for a Drug Free America which states "all claims have been substantiated by the National Institute on Drug Abuse."

Some info on Partnership for a Drug Free America from their wikipedia page:

The foundation's founder, Robert Wood Johnson II, had built the family firm of Johnson & Johnson into an international health products maker, and he left the foundation a generous bequest of stock upon his death in 1968

PDFA was the subject of criticism when it was revealed by Cynthia Cotts of the Village Voice that their federal tax returns showed that they had received several million dollars worth of funding from major pharmaceutical, tobacco and alcohol corporations including American Brands (Jim Beam whiskey), Philip Morris (Marlboro and Virginia Slims cigarettes,Miller beer), Anheuser Busch (Budweiser, Michelob, Busch beer), R.J. Reynolds (Camel, Salem, Winston cigarettes), as well as pharmaceutical firms Bristol Meyers-Squibb,Merck & Company and Procter & Gamble.

So when I read something like "The daily use of 1 to 3 marijuana joints appears to produce approximately the same lung damage and potential cancer risk as smoking 5 times as many cigarettes" and then see that the PDFA is funded by tabacco companies....yea, that makes me skeptical.

These companies stand to lose MILLIONS if marijuana is legalized. Therefore, I would be tremendously skeptical of any "scientific studies" they publish. Thats not to say that you shouldn't also be skeptical of those putting out the pro-marijuana studies. Its a tough thing to discern, and it takes a lot of effort, research, and work.

Really? You think someone who smokes weed three times a day (at least) is going to admit he has a problem?

Do you think it's possible for a person who smokes weed 3 times a day to not have a problem?

I would say that someone who smokes weed three times a day every day for an extended period of time has a drug problem. Yes.

Please answer my question earlier. How much weed would someone have to smoke for you to consider that they have a problem?

I have ADD/turrets/severe sleep disorder....you think that I have a "drug problem" because I take weed for these things?

What if I was autistic and my parent's found that weed helped me function in ways I never could previously(many reported cases of this)....would smoking 3 times a day still be a "drug problem"?

How are you discerning between a "drug problem" and "treating your illnesses with medication"?

If an MD diagnosed you with these problems and prescribed certain doses of weed for you to take to help those problems, then fine. I still think it's dangerous, but if you are under the care of an MD I would trust their professional judgement.

I believe you have bought into a lot of media-driven narrative about "trusting your doctor." Heres the conversation that would happen if I walked into a Cali medical office(often times located exactly next door to the weed store!):

Assani: "Hey Doc, I suffer from ADD and I sleep poorly. I've illegally used weed and found it helps me a lot. Can you write me a subscription for it?"

Doctor: "Sure that'll be $100. Have a great day."

This is also exactly what happens when you "Ask your doctor if _________(insert pharmaceutical drug here) is right for you." Doctors are trying to make money. They make money by writing prescriptions and having patients want to come back to them the next time they need a different drug prescription. If you tell a doctor a list of symptoms, he'll prescribe any drug you want that will reasonably treat those symptoms.

This sounds a lot like what people who are addicted to prescription drugs say.

Of course it sounds like what they would say- it sounds like what everyone who has any experience trying to get their doctor to write a prescription would say. Thats because its the truth. Its really really easy to get a doctor to write you a prescription. Therefore I totally disagree with your sentiment that you would be less likely to think I have a problem if a doctor had prescribed.

Based upon this response, my only guess is that you didn't understand the point I was making....otherwise I don't really see why you are pointing out that someone addicted to prescription meds would also correctly be able to point this out about doctors.

 

[Assani Fisher]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

 

[kutta]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

 

[Jojo the circus boy]

To begin I think we have to discern what aspects of the drugs/medicines we are comparing. I mean, I assume you would agree with me that in terms of danger to one's health possibly including death it goes:

weed << coffee <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< alcohol

How do you smoke your weed? Is lung cancer a concern?

 

[Assani Fisher]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

 

[Assani Fisher]

To begin I think we have to discern what aspects of the drugs/medicines we are comparing. I mean, I assume you would agree with me that in terms of danger to one's health possibly including death it goes:

weed << coffee <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< alcohol

How do you smoke your weed? Is lung cancer a concern?

I don't really like vaporizers, so yea I guess its a concern. With that said, I'm very healthy overall(90% of my diet is pure paleo, I workout 5x/week, etc.). I guess its as much a concern to me as the risk of fast food resulting in a heart attack is to the millions who scarf down fast food all the time- its in the back of my head, but the benefits just outweigh that risk for me.

 

[E-Z Glider]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

There are other "drug problems" than just doing it to get ####ed up.

- Being physically addicted to a drug is a problem - not possible with weed

- Having it negatively effect your life is a problem - this is a problem for many weed users

- Endangering people around you because you are high at your job is a problem

- Relying on public aid so you can support your habit is a problem

This is why I asked earlier what Kutta meant by a "drug problem". I dont really see any evidence of a "problem" in Assani's case?

 

[kutta]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

I guess I would disagree with this. I think they both have issues. Just because someone can give you "valid" reasons why they use drugs doesn't mean they don't have a drug problem, and it doesn't mean they aren't addicted.

Look, I think we just disagree. I like you and I enjoy reading your threads and poker stories. We just have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a drug problem. I truly don't think either one of us is going to convince the other, so maybe it's better if we just let this one go. Best of luck to you in your poker adventures, and I'll continue to follow along.

 

[kutta]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

There are other "drug problems" than just doing it to get ####ed up.

- Being physically addicted to a drug is a problem - not possible with weed

- Having it negatively effect your life is a problem - this is a problem for many weed users

- Endangering people around you because you are high at your job is a problem

- Relying on public aid so you can support your habit is a problem

This is why I asked earlier what Kutta meant by a "drug problem". I dont really see any evidence of a "problem" in Assani's case?

You are fooling yourself there. There are many reasons people get addicted to things that feel good. Sex isn't even a drug but there sure are sexual addictions. To say you can't be addicted to weed is just wrong.

 

[E-Z Glider]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

There are other "drug problems" than just doing it to get ####ed up.

- Being physically addicted to a drug is a problem - not possible with weed

- Having it negatively effect your life is a problem - this is a problem for many weed users

- Endangering people around you because you are high at your job is a problem

- Relying on public aid so you can support your habit is a problem

This is why I asked earlier what Kutta meant by a "drug problem". I dont really see any evidence of a "problem" in Assani's case?

You are fooling yourself there. There are many reasons people get addicted to things that feel good. Sex isn't even a drug but there sure are sexual addictions. To say you can't be addicted to weed is just wrong.

You skipped an important word... physically addicted... some people are psychologically addicted to weed. In other words, they get grumpy when they cant have it. Their bodies are not, however, physically addicted and show no signs of physical withdrawal like you see with most other drugs.

WebMD article (hopefully we can all agree that WebMD is unbiased and not like citing "facts" from Parnership for a Drug Free America or NORML)

 

[Parmcat]

Really? You think someone who smokes weed three times a day (at least) is going to admit he has a problem?

Do you think it's possible for a person who smokes weed 3 times a day to not have a problem?

I would say that someone who smokes weed three times a day every day for an extended period of time has a drug problem. Yes.

Please answer my question earlier. How much weed would someone have to smoke for you to consider that they have a problem?

I have ADD/turrets/severe sleep disorder....you think that I have a "drug problem" because I take weed for these things?

What if I was autistic and my parent's found that weed helped me function in ways I never could previously(many reported cases of this)....would smoking 3 times a day still be a "drug problem"?

How are you discerning between a "drug problem" and "treating your illnesses with medication"?

Heres the rub....

MY son has Turettes, ADD, and anxiety, and is controlled with prescribed medication. You have the same thing and are self medicating, smoking up 2-3 times a day, for the last couple of years.

If you have been diagnosed with these disorders, why are you not on any "regular meds"

I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency

As for the weed makes you a better player...I will stay out of that argument

 

[Assani Fisher]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

I guess I would disagree with this. I think they both have issues. Just because someone can give you "valid" reasons why they use drugs doesn't mean they don't have a drug problem, and it doesn't mean they aren't addicted.

Look, I think we just disagree. I like you and I enjoy reading your threads and poker stories. We just have a difference of opinion on what constitutes a drug problem. I truly don't think either one of us is going to convince the other, so maybe it's better if we just let this one go. Best of luck to you in your poker adventures, and I'll continue to follow along.

Fair enough. I do agree that many people can deceive themselves and come up with a bunch of "valid reasons" to justify their addiction. Maybe its impossible for me to prove that I'm not doing this over the internet, and you could only know for sure if we talked in person and you observed my sincerity/attitude/open-mindedness.

I do echo the sentiments above regarding why exactly you think its a "problem." I mean, if someone ate 500 calories of broccoli each day(thats a massive amount of broccoli, its very low calorie) I think we'd agree that it was excessive and might be an addiction....but it wouldn't really be a problem, right? Similarly, maybe I'll agree with you that my use is excessive and if you want to say I'm addicted then thats fine too- but what exactly are the problems that you think its causing? I know you brought up your brother's alcoholism and his ability to function through it, but I'm assuming that there were some problems as a result of it- Surely he got in a few arguments, made bad sexual decisions, didn't display the proper amount of courtesy on more than one occassion while he was drunk, right? I'm not seeing any of these problems existing with my weed use. What problems are you seeing with MY weed use(I capitalize "my" because a study funded by tobacco/alcohol companies does not mean that my usage is a problem for me)? I have no problems being perfectly honest about the effects weed has on me, so if there are problems then they should become clear over the course of our discussion.

 

[Parmcat]

P&S....

Will you please win a big name tourney so I can cash in on this picture!!!!! I have held onto it for a while now Assani!

Assani and Fast Eddie!

 

[Assani Fisher]

Really? You think someone who smokes weed three times a day (at least) is going to admit he has a problem?

Do you think it's possible for a person who smokes weed 3 times a day to not have a problem?

I would say that someone who smokes weed three times a day every day for an extended period of time has a drug problem. Yes.

Please answer my question earlier. How much weed would someone have to smoke for you to consider that they have a problem?

I have ADD/turrets/severe sleep disorder....you think that I have a "drug problem" because I take weed for these things?

What if I was autistic and my parent's found that weed helped me function in ways I never could previously(many reported cases of this)....would smoking 3 times a day still be a "drug problem"?

How are you discerning between a "drug problem" and "treating your illnesses with medication"?

Heres the rub....

MY son has Turettes, ADD, and anxiety, and is controlled with prescribed medication. You have the same thing and are self medicating, smoking up 2-3 times a day, for the last couple of years.

If you have been diagnosed with these disorders, why are you not on any "regular meds"

I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency

As for the weed makes you a better player...I will stay out of that argument

Because I think those drugs are absurdly dangerous and have a ton of negative effects. The pharmaceutical industry is out for profits, and I see no reason to trust them on these types of issues.

I've tried adderall for my ADD and I've tried Ambien for my sleep issues. I found adderall made me feel like I was on a drug(kinda reminded me doing coke when I was young)...didn't feel natural at all. And ambien...holy #####. Of all the drugs I've ever tried, ambien scares me more than anything. It makes me completely black out, fall asleep wherever I am, and have very little recollection of how I got there when I wake up.

For the sake of your kid, please do all the research yourself and do not trust authority figures just because they are authority figures. Also pay no mind to the legal/illegal distinction- your kid's health is way more important than a silly moral code of blindly obeying your country's laws even when they are instituted for clearly poor reasons.

"I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. "

I don't "want" to do anything other than discover, with the greatest degree of confidence, the truth about myself, my weed usage, and the optimal way for me to use it. I absolutely do not mind people disagreeing with me, but I'm really starting to hate being labeled in this way(as someone prone to self-deception) when I feel as if I'm being way more open-minded than those on the other side of the debate. How many other people are as forthcoming and honest publicly as I have been here? Shouldn't that cause you guys to stop thinking that I'm just out to fool myself?

"You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency"

Oh without a doubt I have a dependency on it. I depend on it to cure me of all the symptoms I've listed, and life is much tougher battling those symptoms without my medicine. I don't disagree here; I disagree that I have a "problem" with my dependency.

 

[Assani Fisher]

P&S....

Will you please win a big name tourney so I can cash in on this picture!!!!! I have held onto it for a while now Assani!

Assani and Fast Eddie!

 

[Parmcat]

Really? You think someone who smokes weed three times a day (at least) is going to admit he has a problem?

Do you think it's possible for a person who smokes weed 3 times a day to not have a problem?

I would say that someone who smokes weed three times a day every day for an extended period of time has a drug problem. Yes.

Please answer my question earlier. How much weed would someone have to smoke for you to consider that they have a problem?

I have ADD/turrets/severe sleep disorder....you think that I have a "drug problem" because I take weed for these things?

What if I was autistic and my parent's found that weed helped me function in ways I never could previously(many reported cases of this)....would smoking 3 times a day still be a "drug problem"?

How are you discerning between a "drug problem" and "treating your illnesses with medication"?

Heres the rub....

MY son has Turettes, ADD, and anxiety, and is controlled with prescribed medication. You have the same thing and are self medicating, smoking up 2-3 times a day, for the last couple of years.

If you have been diagnosed with these disorders, why are you not on any "regular meds"

I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency

As for the weed makes you a better player...I will stay out of that argument

Because I think those drugs are absurdly dangerous and have a ton of negative effects. The pharmaceutical industry is out for profits, and I see no reason to trust them on these types of issues.

I've tried adderall for my ADD and I've tried Ambien for my sleep issues. I found adderall made me feel like I was on a drug(kinda reminded me doing coke when I was young)...didn't feel natural at all. And ambien...holy #####. Of all the drugs I've ever tried, ambien scares me more than anything. It makes me completely black out, fall asleep wherever I am, and have very little recollection of how I got there when I wake up.

For the sake of your kid, please do all the research yourself and do not trust authority figures just because they are authority figures. Also pay no mind to the legal/illegal distinction- your kid's health is way more important than a silly moral code of blindly obeying your country's laws even when they are instituted for clearly poor reasons.

"I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. "

I don't "want" to do anything other than discover, with the greatest degree of confidence, the truth about myself, my weed usage, and the optimal way for me to use it. I absolutely do not mind people disagreeing with me, but I'm really starting to hate being labeled in this way(as someone prone to self-deception) when I feel as if I'm being way more open-minded than those on the other side of the debate. How many other people are as forthcoming and honest publicly as I have been here? Shouldn't that cause you guys to stop thinking that I'm just out to fool myself?

"You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency"

Oh without a doubt I have a dependency on it. I depend on it to cure me of all the symptoms I've listed, and life is much tougher battling those symptoms without my medicine. I don't disagree here; I disagree that I have a "problem" with my dependency.

I am a 23 year psychiatric nurse. I have done my homework. I would never put my son on Adderall or Ambien...EVER. MY son takes Prozac, has regular chiropractic adjustments, and lots of exercise, and diet control. He is 9.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Parmcat and others,

Here is a 7 minute video which does a good job explaining my position on illegal vs legal drugs. Its a hilarious video featuring a ton of comedians you probably love, even if you think you'll disagree please just watch it for the humor. I think it raises some good points.

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/70535/War_on_Drugs___Just_say_NO_to_Pharma/

 

[Assani Fisher]

Really? You think someone who smokes weed three times a day (at least) is going to admit he has a problem?

Do you think it's possible for a person who smokes weed 3 times a day to not have a problem?

I would say that someone who smokes weed three times a day every day for an extended period of time has a drug problem. Yes.

Please answer my question earlier. How much weed would someone have to smoke for you to consider that they have a problem?

I have ADD/turrets/severe sleep disorder....you think that I have a "drug problem" because I take weed for these things?

What if I was autistic and my parent's found that weed helped me function in ways I never could previously(many reported cases of this)....would smoking 3 times a day still be a "drug problem"?

How are you discerning between a "drug problem" and "treating your illnesses with medication"?

Heres the rub....

MY son has Turettes, ADD, and anxiety, and is controlled with prescribed medication. You have the same thing and are self medicating, smoking up 2-3 times a day, for the last couple of years.

If you have been diagnosed with these disorders, why are you not on any "regular meds"

I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency

As for the weed makes you a better player...I will stay out of that argument

Because I think those drugs are absurdly dangerous and have a ton of negative effects. The pharmaceutical industry is out for profits, and I see no reason to trust them on these types of issues.

I've tried adderall for my ADD and I've tried Ambien for my sleep issues. I found adderall made me feel like I was on a drug(kinda reminded me doing coke when I was young)...didn't feel natural at all. And ambien...holy #####. Of all the drugs I've ever tried, ambien scares me more than anything. It makes me completely black out, fall asleep wherever I am, and have very little recollection of how I got there when I wake up.

For the sake of your kid, please do all the research yourself and do not trust authority figures just because they are authority figures. Also pay no mind to the legal/illegal distinction- your kid's health is way more important than a silly moral code of blindly obeying your country's laws even when they are instituted for clearly poor reasons.

"I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. "

I don't "want" to do anything other than discover, with the greatest degree of confidence, the truth about myself, my weed usage, and the optimal way for me to use it. I absolutely do not mind people disagreeing with me, but I'm really starting to hate being labeled in this way(as someone prone to self-deception) when I feel as if I'm being way more open-minded than those on the other side of the debate. How many other people are as forthcoming and honest publicly as I have been here? Shouldn't that cause you guys to stop thinking that I'm just out to fool myself?

"You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency"

Oh without a doubt I have a dependency on it. I depend on it to cure me of all the symptoms I've listed, and life is much tougher battling those symptoms without my medicine. I don't disagree here; I disagree that I have a "problem" with my dependency.

I am a 23 year psychiatric nurse. I have done my homework. I would never put my son on Adderall or Ambien...EVER. MY son takes Prozac, has regular chiropractic adjustments, and lots of exercise, and diet control. He is 9.

Oh ok, excuse my above post then(although its hilarious, so you still might like watching it).

I'm not overly familiar with Prozac. I have been scared away from trusting many doctors because they prescribe drugs like ambien and adderall, which we seem to agree are horrible(can you understand how a non-psychiatric nurse like me would find it difficult to trust these people?). Perhaps educate me more on Prozac then...I have no issues with learning about it and potentially using it instead of weed.

 

[Assani Fisher]

also its gotten a bit lost in our recent discussion, but just to clarify....

I use weed for reasons other than helping with ADD/turrets/sleeping. I also love the wave of ideas I get, I feel like it really helps me be objective in situations where I was previously allowing my emotions to have too much influence on my thought process, and I feel like it makes me happier and nicer to people.

I only focused on the medically-defined conditions I had because it seemed like many were doubting my self-assessment, so I wanted to rely upon things that were medically classified.

 

[kutta]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

There are other "drug problems" than just doing it to get ####ed up.

- Being physically addicted to a drug is a problem - not possible with weed

- Having it negatively effect your life is a problem - this is a problem for many weed users

- Endangering people around you because you are high at your job is a problem

- Relying on public aid so you can support your habit is a problem

This is why I asked earlier what Kutta meant by a "drug problem". I dont really see any evidence of a "problem" in Assani's case?

You are fooling yourself there. There are many reasons people get addicted to things that feel good. Sex isn't even a drug but there sure are sexual addictions. To say you can't be addicted to weed is just wrong.

You skipped an important word... physically addicted... some people are psychologically addicted to weed. In other words, they get grumpy when they cant have it. Their bodies are not, however, physically addicted and show no signs of physical withdrawal like you see with most other drugs.

WebMD article (hopefully we can all agree that WebMD is unbiased and not like citing "facts" from Parnership for a Drug Free America or NORML)

From the article you quoted:

Contrary to what many pot smokers may tell you, marijuana is addictive, at least psychologically. Even among occasional users, one in 12 can feel withdrawal symptoms if they can't get high when they want to. Among heavy pot smokers, the rates of dependence are higher.

Many experts also believe that marijuana is physically addictive.

 

[Parmcat]

Really? You think someone who smokes weed three times a day (at least) is going to admit he has a problem?

Do you think it's possible for a person who smokes weed 3 times a day to not have a problem?

I would say that someone who smokes weed three times a day every day for an extended period of time has a drug problem. Yes.

Please answer my question earlier. How much weed would someone have to smoke for you to consider that they have a problem?

I have ADD/turrets/severe sleep disorder....you think that I have a "drug problem" because I take weed for these things?

What if I was autistic and my parent's found that weed helped me function in ways I never could previously(many reported cases of this)....would smoking 3 times a day still be a "drug problem"?

How are you discerning between a "drug problem" and "treating your illnesses with medication"?

Heres the rub....

MY son has Turettes, ADD, and anxiety, and is controlled with prescribed medication. You have the same thing and are self medicating, smoking up 2-3 times a day, for the last couple of years.

If you have been diagnosed with these disorders, why are you not on any "regular meds"

I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency

As for the weed makes you a better player...I will stay out of that argument

Because I think those drugs are absurdly dangerous and have a ton of negative effects. The pharmaceutical industry is out for profits, and I see no reason to trust them on these types of issues.

I've tried adderall for my ADD and I've tried Ambien for my sleep issues. I found adderall made me feel like I was on a drug(kinda reminded me doing coke when I was young)...didn't feel natural at all. And ambien...holy #####. Of all the drugs I've ever tried, ambien scares me more than anything. It makes me completely black out, fall asleep wherever I am, and have very little recollection of how I got there when I wake up.

For the sake of your kid, please do all the research yourself and do not trust authority figures just because they are authority figures. Also pay no mind to the legal/illegal distinction- your kid's health is way more important than a silly moral code of blindly obeying your country's laws even when they are instituted for clearly poor reasons.

"I agree with whoever said...that smoking that much a day for that long is a problem....period. Regardless if you want to admit it. "

I don't "want" to do anything other than discover, with the greatest degree of confidence, the truth about myself, my weed usage, and the optimal way for me to use it. I absolutely do not mind people disagreeing with me, but I'm really starting to hate being labeled in this way(as someone prone to self-deception) when I feel as if I'm being way more open-minded than those on the other side of the debate. How many other people are as forthcoming and honest publicly as I have been here? Shouldn't that cause you guys to stop thinking that I'm just out to fool myself?

"You said if you stop for a couple of days you can lose focus...that is a dependency"

Oh without a doubt I have a dependency on it. I depend on it to cure me of all the symptoms I've listed, and life is much tougher battling those symptoms without my medicine. I don't disagree here; I disagree that I have a "problem" with my dependency.

I am a 23 year psychiatric nurse. I have done my homework. I would never put my son on Adderall or Ambien...EVER. MY son takes Prozac, has regular chiropractic adjustments, and lots of exercise, and diet control. He is 9.

Oh ok, excuse my above post then(although its hilarious, so you still might like watching it).

I'm not overly familiar with Prozac. I have been scared away from trusting many doctors because they prescribe drugs like ambien and adderall, which we seem to agree are horrible(can you understand how a non-psychiatric nurse like me would find it difficult to trust these people?). Perhaps educate me more on Prozac then...I have no issues with learning about it and potentially using it instead of weed.

In short, Prozac is the only anti depressant that has been tested and approved, in Canada, for use in adolescents. It has many residual effects, like to decrease anxiety, and curb appetite. I think, IIRC, it was originally a diet aide.

It has done wonders, and is pretty benign in the work of psychiatric meds. Very few side effects

 

[Assani Fisher]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

There are other "drug problems" than just doing it to get ####ed up.

- Being physically addicted to a drug is a problem - not possible with weed

- Having it negatively effect your life is a problem - this is a problem for many weed users

- Endangering people around you because you are high at your job is a problem

- Relying on public aid so you can support your habit is a problem

This is why I asked earlier what Kutta meant by a "drug problem". I dont really see any evidence of a "problem" in Assani's case?

You are fooling yourself there. There are many reasons people get addicted to things that feel good. Sex isn't even a drug but there sure are sexual addictions. To say you can't be addicted to weed is just wrong.

You skipped an important word... physically addicted... some people are psychologically addicted to weed. In other words, they get grumpy when they cant have it. Their bodies are not, however, physically addicted and show no signs of physical withdrawal like you see with most other drugs.

WebMD article (hopefully we can all agree that WebMD is unbiased and not like citing "facts" from Parnership for a Drug Free America or NORML)

From the article you quoted:

Contrary to what many pot smokers may tell you, marijuana is addictive, at least psychologically. Even among occasional users, one in 12 can feel withdrawal symptoms if they can't get high when they want to. Among heavy pot smokers, the rates of dependence are higher.

Many experts also believe that marijuana is physically addictive.

It sounds like you guys agree. He said that it was not physically addictive. The paragraph you quote only claims to be certain that its psychologically addictive. It does add in that "many"(no clue if this means a majority or not) experts believe it is physically addictive, but the way its worded(especially in comparison to the matter-of-fact way they stated that its psychologically addictive) makes it seems as if they are not stating that as a fact.

In short, Prozac is the only anti depressant that has been tested and approved, in Canada, for use in adolescents. It has many residual effects, like to decrease anxiety, and curb appetite. I think, IIRC, it was originally a diet aide.

It has done wonders, and is pretty benign in the work of psychiatric meds. Very few side effects

So for someone like me(a 31 year old who has no complaints about how marijuana has helped his ailments) would you recommend trying out a switch to Prozac?

 

[Parmcat]

In short, Prozac is the only anti depressant that has been tested and approved, in Canada, for use in adolescents. It has many residual effects, like to decrease anxiety, and curb appetite. I think, IIRC, it was originally a diet aide.

It has done wonders, and is pretty benign in the work of psychiatric meds. Very few side effects

So for someone like me(a 31 year old who has no complaints about how marijuana has helped his ailments) would you recommend trying out a switch to Prozac?

I would recommend a conversation with your Doc.

 

[Assani Fisher]

In short, Prozac is the only anti depressant that has been tested and approved, in Canada, for use in adolescents. It has many residual effects, like to decrease anxiety, and curb appetite. I think, IIRC, it was originally a diet aide.

It has done wonders, and is pretty benign in the work of psychiatric meds. Very few side effects

So for someone like me(a 31 year old who has no complaints about how marijuana has helped his ailments) would you recommend trying out a switch to Prozac?

I would recommend a conversation with your Doc.

I don't trust these people. I would much rather hear YOUR OPINION than my local doctor's opinion.

Can you recommend any doctor in Las Vegas, SoCal, Maryland/DC/Baltimore, or Toronto that 1. You fully trust in regards to not prescribing medications based upon kickbacks he receives, 2. Is completely open-minded regarding illegal drugs and can intelligently compare how certain illegal drugs will treat my symptoms versus how certain legal drugs will treat my symptoms, and 3. Has a positive reputation in the medical community?

I'd be willing to see a doctor I can trust, but finding one to trust isn't super easy imo....I've heard about some of the methods the pharmaceutical companies will use. Stuff like where they'll take all the doctors out to this awesome dinner under some false pretense of "getting to know everyone in the medical community", but in reality they've done studies that show when a company comes out with a new drug and takes all the doctors out to a nice dinner(while promoting that drug) it has huge effects on how often the doctor will prescribe that drug in the future. I'm not casting blame on the doctors for this, as its just human nature. However, the only thing influencing a doctor's prescriptions should be objective medical evidence, and its blatantly clear that this is not actually the only thing influencing them. Theres millions and millions of dollars being made through the prescription of these drugs- to think that greed wouldn't infiltrate this system is overly naive.

 

[kutta]

And let me set the record straight here. I am 100% for legalizing marijuana. I'd even like to sit in my back yard by the lake and smoke a joint or two every now and then. My position is that I think Assani is fooling himself if he thinks his heavy, frequent marijuana use is actually good for him.

I understand your position. I also understand that you were on the fence about your position, but you told me that you came off the fence based upon my answer to question #4 in post #9524. As I've said, I think question #4 is practically irrelevant and you should instead focus solely on question #5.

You seem to be ignoring question #5 completely, and I think its the only thing that matters when determining if someone has an addiction/problem. This seems to be the root of our disagreement, no?

I think so. Your position, I think, is that it doesn't matter how much you smoke as long as you function well. Is that right?

No. My position has nothing to do with "functioning well." My position is that when determining if someone has an addiction/problem you need to look at the reasons they are using instead of focusing on the amount they are using. I'll give an example to illustrate:

Person A smokes every hour he is awake- around 16 times per day! But when you ask him why he smokes so much he can give you detailed medical reasons, he can give you detailed observations of how it affects him, and he is willing to(and already has) monitored quantifiable results hes had in his endeavors(in this case playing poker) while both sober and while high.

Person B smokes a few times per week, often times not smoking for days at a time. When you ask them why they respond "To get f*cked up just like when I do other drugs!!!"

Person B has a problem imo, Person A does not.

There are other "drug problems" than just doing it to get ####ed up.

- Being physically addicted to a drug is a problem - not possible with weed

- Having it negatively effect your life is a problem - this is a problem for many weed users

- Endangering people around you because you are high at your job is a problem

- Relying on public aid so you can support your habit is a problem

This is why I asked earlier what Kutta meant by a "drug problem". I dont really see any evidence of a "problem" in Assani's case?

You are fooling yourself there. There are many reasons people get addicted to things that feel good. Sex isn't even a drug but there sure are sexual addictions. To say you can't be addicted to weed is just wrong.

You skipped an important word... physically addicted... some people are psychologically addicted to weed. In other words, they get grumpy when they cant have it. Their bodies are not, however, physically addicted and show no signs of physical withdrawal like you see with most other drugs.

WebMD article (hopefully we can all agree that WebMD is unbiased and not like citing "facts" from Parnership for a Drug Free America or NORML)

From the article you quoted:

Contrary to what many pot smokers may tell you, marijuana is addictive, at least psychologically. Even among occasional users, one in 12 can feel withdrawal symptoms if they can't get high when they want to. Among heavy pot smokers, the rates of dependence are higher.

Many experts also believe that marijuana is physically addictive.

It sounds like you guys agree. He said that it was not physically addictive. The paragraph you quote only claims to be certain that its psychologically addictive. It does add in that "many"(no clue if this means a majority or not) experts believe it is physically addictive, but the way its worded(especially in comparison to the matter-of-fact way they stated that its psychologically addictive) makes it seems as if they are not stating that as a fact.

I don't think we agree. Saying marijuana IS psychologically addictive and many experts think it is also physically addictive is MUCH different from saying with 100% certainty that it is not physically addictive.

 

[Otis]

would anyone have a problem if Assani was drinking during the tourney and/or each night before going to sleep?

if you were going to stake him in a tourney, would you also expect him to disclose that ahead of time?

Of course not as to the night before. That's an unreasonable expectation.

Getting lit up during the tourney? I'd be curious to know that, with 10k on the line.

Of course from there we cross the line from legal to illegal. I'm not saying I agree with the illegality of pot, but I think that raises it a notch.

 

[Otis]

I'm not planning to venture into the "Assani is addicted" discussion -- I really just had a problem with the notion that pot makes him better at a game of wits.

That said, I did find some of the statements he made earlier in the thread, to the effect of "I used to smoke a lot and was starting to get a little addicted, but now it's totally under control, and anyway it helps me" to be right there in the vein of textbook things addicts say to themselves and those around them on a regular basis. But that's for kutta to dig in on.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Taking the day off from poker btw, so I'm enjoying posting lots on this topic. Just some more info on my history with weed and poker, feel free to comment on anything....

As I've said alcohol was my drug of choice for most of my adult life. I started smoking weed sometime January-April 2008, I know it was at this time because it was near the end of when I was living with Eddie(FBGs Eddie), his gf Amanda, and my friends from Maryland Anthony and Katie. One of the guys Anthony worked with was a pot dealer and Anthony mentioned he could get some. We started smoking maybe 2-3 nights per week, usually just watching youtube videos outside near our pool and then coming inside and watching TV. I didn't think much of it, and alcohol was still the predominant drug in terms of influence on my life and actions. Anthony always kept the weed, and I never thought of doing it when he wasn't around. Also I never thought about poker while smoking at this point in time.

In either April or May 2008 me, Katie, and Anthony got our own place. We had always wanted to be respectful to Eddie and Amanda, so we never had weed sitting around the house or did it around them. But once we got our own place, everyone in the house liked the smell of weed so it'd be standard for there to be a bong and a bag of weed lying on the living room table, and we'd just smoke inside if we didn't feel like going outside. I still would always wait for Anthony to get home from work before I smoked(and I would grind poker sober during the day), but Anthony had to go to bed around midnight and I was on a super late night schedule. So I would smoke with Anthony and then smoke more later at night by myself. And it was at these times by myself that I felt I had a big change in my ability to be objective and I began to see the world from different perspectives.

Now as I said before, its impossible for me to say for sure whether the changes that occurred in the 6-18 months after I began smoking at night by myself were due to smoking or whether they were due to me maturing as a normal person would in his late 20s. However, imo there was definitely a drastic change in me during this point in my life and it coincides perfectly with my increased marijuana use. A few things that changed in me:

1. After being a strong Christian(went to church all throughout high school including Wednesday night Youth Group, went to a Christian college, prayed multiple times a day, etc.), I stopped believing it to be true. I could write for quite a while on this, but Christopher Hitchens, Sam Harris, and Richard Dawkins books and lectures would do a much better job than me of summarizing my position.

2. I was a college basketball player, but I had totally let myself go after college. I would guess that I weighed around 220lbs and had never even tried to barbell squat. Fast forward 2 years and I weighed 200lbs and could squat near 400lbs. Nowadays I've lost much of that mass(intentionally) and am around 180lbs.

3. I was a midstakes plo8 grinder. I 24 tabled $.5/1-$3/6, it was a huge grind. When smoking at night I started watching the $5/10 and $10/20 heads up matches that would happen. After a few months I even started experimenting with smoking during the daytime and playing. By Black Friday(April 2011), I was sitting by myself every single day at $10/20 deepstaked($5000 buy in) on PokerStars and $25/50 deepstacked($10,000 buy in) on Full Tilt. I personally think I was the best HU plo8 player in the world at this time(some may disagree, but thats why we play the games). When I was playing these high stakes HU games, I was stoned quite often, including this session(my biggest win in one HU session ever): http://www.leggopoker.com/blogs/icypots/big-day-7979.html

4. I became much more interested in science. I could watch Neil DeGrasse Tyson lectures all day long now. I used to never even think about it.

5. I also started thinking more about what I wanted out of life and how I should go about achieving it. Things like the Joe Rogan podcast have really shaped my thinking in this area. I think that because its much easier to see faults in other people than it is to improve yourself, we all have a natural tendency to do just that. I was horrible about this when I was younger, and I often times cringe thinking back about how I used to act. I feel as if weed has made me more self-aware and has made me care to improve myself instead of criticizing others(not that I'm anywhere close to perfect now, but I've definitely improved).

 

[Assani Fisher]

3. I was a midstakes plo8 grinder. I 24 tabled $.5/1-$3/6, it was a huge grind. When smoking at night I started watching the $5/10 and $10/20 heads up matches that would happen. After a few months I even started experimenting with smoking during the daytime and playing. By Black Friday(April 2011), I was sitting by myself every single day at $10/20 deepstaked($5000 buy in) on PokerStars and $25/50 deepstacked($10,000 buy in) on Full Tilt. I personally think I was the best HU plo8 player in the world at this time(some may disagree, but thats why we play the games). When I was playing these high stakes HU games, I was stoned quite often, including this session(my biggest win in one HU session ever): http://www.leggopoker.com/blogs/icypots/big-day-7979.html

I'm sure the poker aspect is why most clicked on this thread, so to extrapolate more on this...

Before weed, I would describe Assani the poker player as a reasonably smart guy who played a really basic ABC style and played in games with lots of fish. If Eddie is around, he can comment on the tournament advice I used to give him- Early on I basically just told him to play super tight, wait to hit sets or gets AA/KK, and value bet well. In the later stages of a tourney I pretty much just regurgitated Harrington on HoldEm. I made money because of how soft my competition was.

When I started smoking and watching the top players play, it was really the very first time I wondered "What are they doing that makes them the best? Can I do that too? Maybe I can even be better than them if I can do what they're doing but with a few improvements. I'm a smart guy- lets actually figure this #### out instead of just playing how some book told us."

Before weed, I was kinda just lucky that I had been born with a decent amount of logical ability....I was able to get by based on that and reading some books, but I didn't REALLY think about poker. I mean, sure I discussed hands here and there, but I didn't solve things mathematically, I didn't confront my emotions honestly in regards to how they might affect my play, and I didn't think about trying to constantly stay one step ahead of people who had read all the same books as me. After weed, I cared to become a great player much more. I embraced the hard work it takes to really become good at poker instead of just enjoying the free ride that the soft competition of 2003-2008 online poker provided.

Again I'll say that its possible that this was just my natural aging curve and I would've experienced these changes without weed. But the timing makes a strong case otherwise, as does the fact that my recollection of the huge majority of the first time I considered these types of questions is that it occurred within 5 minutes after taking a huge hit of weed.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I don't trust these people. I would much rather hear YOUR OPINION than my local doctor's opinion.

Yes. Opinion of random internet guy >>>> a doctor.

Puff. Puff.

 

[James Daulton]

Btw, physicians don't get kickbacks from drug companies. You can think that too much medical treatment is handled by drug therapy, but it's not because of kickbacks.

 

[Otis]

This all is so ridiculous.

 

[Assani Fisher]

I don't trust these people. I would much rather hear YOUR OPINION than my local doctor's opinion.

Yes. Opinion of random internet guy >>>> a doctor.

Puff. Puff.

Parmcat is a guy I met before who just told me that he is a psychiatric nurse. Hes not a random internet guy. Regardless I'd probably trust a ton of people(such as a random internet guy) more than current doctors in the US. I do not have a very high level of trust in US doctors.

"Puff. Puff."

Weren't you the one who took offense to me "acting like you don't know what you're talking about" when I really didn't say anything offensive at all? Why are you then turning around and mocking me, insinuating that I'm some idiot whose opinions shouldn't even be responded to. If you disagree with what I said, then actually discuss it and tell me why. But please stop the sarcastic and insulting "puff. puff." comments which are clearly only intended to mock and make fun of me.

This all is so ridiculous.

Otis, you have made it abundantly clear that you have no intentions to actually consider the other side of the argument. You have continuously insinuated that the other side was on a fishing trip or made "this is so ridiculous" type of comments. You've made your viewpoints very clear- nobody in this thread does not fully understand your argument. Thank you for contributing, but I have no desire to keep having you tell me how wrong I am without listening to what I'm saying or responding to my points in my posts. I'm gonna end my side of the conversation with you on this topic(but will gladly interact with you on other poker topics or other FFA topics).

If you want to change the way you're debating and actually read and respond to my points then thats ok too, but I"m definitely just ignoring future "Assani is definitely wrong, I'm definitely right, I'm going to post in a smug and condescending way to tell him so" type of stuff that you've been so fond of in this discussion.

 

[Otis]

"I do not have a very high level of trust in US doctors."

Now we're ripping modern medicine. We're halfway down the crazy hole. Larryboy dragon territory isn't far off.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Sounds like someone is bitter he gave money to a random internet guy in the hopes of a return.

 

[Mr. Pickles]

Sounds like someone is bitter he gave money to a random internet guy in the hopes of a return.

BTW, thanks for the short term loan.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Sounds like someone is bitter he gave money to a random internet guy in the hopes of a return.

BTW, thanks for the short term loan.

Anytime. You should have probably kept it for next year.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Thread title should be modified IMO

 

[Brony]

This discussion had legs until "all doctors are not to be trusted" and "weed is safer than coffee"

 

[Otis]

This discussion had legs until "all doctors are not to be trusted" and "weed is safer than coffee"

It was pretty obvious this thing was a tranny beforehand, at least to those of us who knew what to look for, but now we've seen caulk and bawls.

 

[Otis]

These last few pages are TLDNR. Did we really establish that the OP is a heavy pothead? How often does he smoke?

 

[bostonfred]

I don't know how to quantify a drug problem except that at some point in your life, you realize you wish you hadn't been doing drugs, and you feel that doing drugs made you feel like you should do more drugs in a way that you wouldn't have felt if you hadn't been doing drugs in the first place.

I can also understand why Otis would want to know that Assani was smoking the weed before he staked him. But I think everyone - including Otis - agrees that it's easier to be upset about that in hindsight than in advance, when he seemed like a good enough investment to drop a rack and a stack to stake a guy you've never met face to face.

But maybe that's the key. I mean, Otis, tell me that you would have looked at Assani and said, hmm, that guy doesn't get high.

 

[Otis]

Guy is clearly a stoner. I just thought with the way he talks about his "profession" that he didn't do it on the job. It's no wonder he's not winning WSOP -- I wouldn't win a single argument in court if I went in there ripped.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Guy is clearly a stoner. I just thought with the way he talks about his "profession" that he didn't do it on the job. It's no wonder he's not winning WSOP -- I wouldn't win a single argument in court if I went in there ripped.

I posted every meaningful hand I played in the WSOP either here or on twitter. I'd be happy to discuss any hand history and hear from a non-stoner such as yourself how you think the hand might've played out better had I not been high.

As for setting the bar at "winning the WSOP" in order to prove that I can be successful at my job while using weed, thats absurd. Theres a ton of luck involved in winning a tournament. I have a clear history of success at my job while using weed. The fact that you couldn't be successful at your job while on weed does not change that one bit.

I saw your post where you said the last few pages were TLDR, so in case you missed it:

I was a midstakes plo8 grinder. I 24 tabled $.5/1-$3/6, it was a huge grind. When smoking at night I started watching the $5/10 and $10/20 heads up matches that would happen. After a few months I even started experimenting with smoking during the daytime and playing. By Black Friday(April 2011), I was sitting by myself every single day at $10/20 deepstaked($5000 buy in) on PokerStars and $25/50 deepstacked($10,000 buy in) on Full Tilt. I personally think I was the best HU plo8 player in the world at this time(some may disagree, but thats why we play the games). When I was playing these high stakes HU games, I was stoned quite often, including this session(my biggest win in one HU session ever): http://www.leggopoke...g-day-7979.html

 

[Assani Fisher]

"No wonder Otis has never made over $40,000 in 8 hours at his job- I never could've won that amount had I not gone into my poker match ripped."

See how this logic doesn't really work, Otis? You and me are different people- things don't affect us the same.