Smack Tripper
Footballguy
You know, not to say the dominos couldn't fall that way, but do you prefer absolute freedom where people are afraid to leave their homes and conduct business? Is that freedom?
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Attack on London bridge, reports people run down, stabbed and shots fired (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Billy Bats
- Start date
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I agree most likely, but see the comment above about Farawge.
- eta - If you like Farage and think his & UKIP's POVs are gaining traction, then that will take a chunk out of May's vote.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
Here is the liberal lawyers 3point plan to stop these attacks.I don't know man, you're the lawyer you tell me. That's what the people we elect supposedly get paid to do, isn't it? I know people will get mad at me for infringing on their rights and freedoms, don't want to open up this can of worms. I'm just an average joe that is sick and tired of accepting terrorist acts as living the daily life.I'll move on, back to the gambling thread.
1) A New New Deal jobs program targeted at Muslims in the West. Jobs will keep them on the up and up and integrate them into society better.
2) Open up more immigration from the Muslim world so that existing Muslims feel less like a minority.
3) Stop all talk and actions at cultural assimilation. This is a form of oppression and creates resentment. Allow Muslims to have autonomous Sharia zones within the West with their own laws.
Do these and terrorists will be friendly neighbors and you will not be a racist islamaphobe like Trump and his deplorables.
Sounds like a great idea. As we know, people in power never use that power to target their political enemies.
Amazing to me that the same people screaming the loudest about Obama using the IRS to go after conservative groups are those suggesting we should do away with due process in this instance.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
How about something like: if you attend a mosque that promotes terrorism or bomb making or jihad you need to report it. If an attack comes out of that mosque, you and your home can be searched. If nothing violent is found and you're just a peaceful muslim practicing his faith, no problem. If you have bomb making instructions or material promoting terrorism, you're part of the problem and can be arrested/deported/ etc.
So we're going to record every mosque 24x7 to check who was there at the exact time each of these alleged promotions of terrorism and bomb-making occurred?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
After the Paris attacks, 100% of the mosques they raided had bomb making materials and jihad pamphlets available. Doesn't take 24/7 recording - you just have to go in. I'm saying if you attend a mosque that promotes terrorism - either in their "sermons" or in their materials, you should be subject to searches yourself.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I'm not talking about an automatic arrest or "guilty until proven innocent" - but if you're attending a mosque that promotes it and someone acts on that, then you should be subject search.
William Munny
Footballguy
squistion
Footballguy
Last edited by a moderator:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
What I find funny about this list is that in REAL life we have a commander in chief who:
- fired the head of the nation's lead counter-terror force,
- and hasn't bothered to replace him, and
- cut back on funding to US police, and
- called our intelligence community who seeks out terrorists as part of their job description 'Nazis', and
- has threatened to repeal the sec. 702 FISA authority whereby our anti-terror forces seek to listen in on actual, real life terrorists before they act.
Last edited by a moderator:
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Almoat all of the conservatives posting in this thread: William Munny, Billy Bats, et. al.- have their hearts in the right place, I believe. They are outraged that these incidents continue to happen, outraged that innocent people continue to die, and firm in their belief that our western societies are not being tough enough to stop these savages. I get all that and I share their emotion and anger.
Respectfully, I disagree with what solutions have been offered. I think they are too damaging to a free society, too many innocent people will be hurt, and, given the example of Israel over the last several decades, I do not believe that such solutions will make these incidents go away, but will rather only increase them. But that being said, I don't have any solutions of my own to offer.
And now Rambling Wreck, you needn't worry: I will desist from polluting the thread with my presence any further. Hope everyone reading this, and their families, are safe and well.
Respectfully, I disagree with what solutions have been offered. I think they are too damaging to a free society, too many innocent people will be hurt, and, given the example of Israel over the last several decades, I do not believe that such solutions will make these incidents go away, but will rather only increase them. But that being said, I don't have any solutions of my own to offer.
And now Rambling Wreck, you needn't worry: I will desist from polluting the thread with my presence any further. Hope everyone reading this, and their families, are safe and well.
Ahh, guilt by association. I get it.
Does that extend to, say a business you work at is caught doing something illegal - should all the employees be subject to search?
What about a christian church that opposes abortions and promotes unlawful actions? Everyone subject to search - I mean if you haven't done anything wrong, why be worried about the police coming in? Amirite?
mcintyre1
Footballguy
Well, that's an impossible scenario, so I don't really see the point in trying to address it. People still leave their homes and conduct business even in places like Syria, and there's zero chance of Islamic terrorists ever affecting America to a level like Syria. We're supposed to be "the land of the free and the home of the brave." Might want to start acting like it sometime.
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
All that islamaphobia in Japan and their Islamic jihad terrorist attacks proves this point.
Maybe the difference between Israel and Japan is their proximity to Muslims.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Yes. If you attend a church and they promote terrorism and provide materials for making bombs and you don't report it and a terrorist act takes place with one of your church "brothers" - you should be subject to search. I said Mosque - sorry it can apply to churches as well.Ahh, guilt by association. I get it.
Does that extend to, say a business you work at is caught doing something illegal - should all the employees be subject to search?
What about a christian church that opposes abortions and promotes unlawful actions? Everyone subject to search - I mean if you haven't done anything wrong, why be worried about the police coming in? Amirite?
Forgive me for ignoring the rest of your straw man.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thoughts and prayers to the families involved.
This type of stuff needs to stop happening if we're to have open and free societies.
It's also becoming crystal clear exactly what region wants to stop open and free societies.
It might take a Truman-like gesture to cure its ills.
This type of stuff needs to stop happening if we're to have open and free societies.
It's also becoming crystal clear exactly what region wants to stop open and free societies.
It might take a Truman-like gesture to cure its ills.
Well, we are making progress.
New 4th Amendment Clause:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. Except, if you attend a church where they promote "terrorism" AND provide materials for making bombs - then, and only then, your rights against unreasonable search and seizure may be violated.
Still to be determined by the Supreme Court - what is "terrorism".
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
How do we parse out the survailence and record keeping of gang members? As I understand it it's not ilegal to be in a gang but there's an ipso facto guilt by association in some respects.
Is there an argument to be made that as a result of the actions of individuals reflecting on a collective that these mosque communities are more analogous to street gangs?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Not that it applies to anyone in London, but if you read the 4th again you'll see it doesn't need an exception.
Sounds great. Starting today, we perform 24x7 video recording of every entrance to every place of worship in the country. Of course, people could wear hoodies or sunglasses. To be safe, we should really check ID at the doors. That way, we can keep an accurate list of every attendee of every church.
Given some time, though, people might start holding group worship at private homes. That would foil the plan. Might as well just nip that in the bud and microchip everyone with a government issued GPS tracker.
Last edited by a moderator:
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Smack Tripper
Footballguy
As I understand it this particular measure was considered for the U.K. They are living in a different circumstance than we are, currently. I will say as a person concerned, at least we aren't Syria is not an enticing salespitch.
The third world is not compatable with modern society in terms of looking for equivalency.
Last edited by a moderator:
There is an argument there - it's just very tenuous. And, it puts us down an incredibly slippery slope.
Case would go like this -
1. Terrorist commits illegal act - killing someone.
2. Police round up known associates of said terrorists.
3. Police find evidence that said associates knew of and encouraged the terrorist.
4. Charge said associates as co-conspirators.
5. Seek death penalty against co-conspirators.
It's still different than searching everyone associated with a mosque - because in my scenario the state (Police) still have to develop probable cause to search and arrest. But, presumably with enough interrogation, they can find associates who were more than simply around at the same time and place - but actively encouraged the terrorists actions. You get even slipperier if you go towards incriminating indoctrination i.e. you simply put the idea in someone's head, and let them reach their own conclusions - but I can see a case to be made.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Informants, searching private communications, and interrogation of people suspected of political crimes (caliphatist ideology) would be the most thorough approach. The 1st, 3rd, 4th & 5th Amendments will need to be adjusted, perhaps the 2nd & 10th as well.
Last edited by a moderator:
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
If you stop letting certain people in (where there is no constitutional right to come here except in liberal judges minds ) then you don't have to change the rest of your constitution to accommodate Islamic terrorists.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
ren hoek
Footballguy
Theresa May saying the internet must now be regulated following the London Bridge attack.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-internet-regulated-london-bridge-terror-attack-google-facebook-whatsapp-borough-security-a7771896.html
Her and her kind can #### right off.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-internet-regulated-london-bridge-terror-attack-google-facebook-whatsapp-borough-security-a7771896.html
Her and her kind can #### right off.
Billy Bats
Footballguy
@Yankee23Fan Hey man any update on your family?
My buddy finally got back to us early this morning. His hotel was only a couple blocks away and he was in the bar that the terrorist entered the night before. Thankfully he was in his room when it went down. Hope your family is safe and sound.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Agree, this is a problem. I think she is talking about a Chinese/Russian style internal firewall system.
ren hoek
Footballguy
This is tragic. As always.
The other day Kabul was hit with a vehicle bomb that killed 90+ and injured over 400. Righetti posted the thread a few days ago. 10 posts.
Meanwhile this "attack on the West" thread is steamrolling along with tons of attention, sympathy, memoriam and deference to the fallen. As it should be. But does it ever bother anyone else that civilian killings in Western countries are humanized and treated with grave dignity, while the others are treated like a stat on a newsfeed scroll? I don't know. I hate the lopsided politicization of it all.
The other day Kabul was hit with a vehicle bomb that killed 90+ and injured over 400. Righetti posted the thread a few days ago. 10 posts.
Meanwhile this "attack on the West" thread is steamrolling along with tons of attention, sympathy, memoriam and deference to the fallen. As it should be. But does it ever bother anyone else that civilian killings in Western countries are humanized and treated with grave dignity, while the others are treated like a stat on a newsfeed scroll? I don't know. I hate the lopsided politicization of it all.
HellToupee
Footballguy
Shula-holic
Footballguy
I don't know. It's like how much coverage do the murders in Chicago get in Riyadh? While certainly the situation in Afghanistan is tragic, the West tends to cover events that happen within itself. It's also daily life in Kabul unfortunately. It seems to be becoming that way in Europe. I think the coverage also reflects that previously these were rare/shocking events in the West.
Mile High
Footballguy
Then they will just go somewhere else or more underground. In the meantime we go down the slippy rabbit hole.
Shula-holic
Footballguy
No solution is perfect. But are we really advocating for a mosque which promotes radicalism/terrorist beliefs?Mile High said:
Mile High
Footballguy
IDK. People died so we could be free and have rights. We now just going to turn from that because more people died because we are free and have rights?
Lutherman2112
Footballguy
Just to help the good Doc. Here's a short reference: https://youtu.be/ivnWXxiKERsSaintsInDome2006 said:
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Ren Ho3k said:
Guys there are Afghan war threads more than 10 years old. When I get a chance I will tee one back up and we can discuss. I look forward to it.HellToupee said:
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Well I don't want to hijack the entire thread - I was responding to a sort of "what can we possibly do" question. I don't exactly have a complete solution with all the constitutional questions resolved in my back pocket but I just can't stand this whole "Oh well, there's nothing that can be done about this" approach. I don know the 4th amendment does allow for probable cause so I don't really see it as a slippery slope. Most of this stuff gets stirred up in the mosques and we shouldn't overlook (as we did with the WTC) the role radical mosques have in their community. I'll stop with this particular suggestion. If anyone has any other suggestions I'm all ears.Mile High said:
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
They checked in. All safe. Continuing vacation because #### the bad guys.Billy Bats said:
Dr Oadi
Footballguy
Shula-holic
Footballguy
I don't really think our founding fathers, WWI, WWII vets, etc. really died and fought so we could allow a mosque to promote terrorist/extremist ideas to kill fellow Americans. I may be confused about that though. I'm not really sure their view of rights would encompass promoting jihad/murder of fellow citizens.
