AZ Passing stats to go down, AZ rushing stats to go UP! (1 Viewer)

[bostonfred]

Why does everyone assume Fitzgerald will do better than Boldin?

Fitzgerald's rookie year, when he was supposed to set the world on fire, was very good. 58 receptions for 780 yards and 8 TDs. Boldin's rookie season was slightly better: 101 receptions for 1377 yards and 8 TDs.

Fitzgerald's best year, 2005, was 103 receptions for 1409 yards and 10 TDs. That same year, Boldin had 102 receptions for 1402 yards and 7 TDs.

Boldin was injured in 2004. Fitzgerald was injured more recently. Neither appears to have been career impacting, and I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitzgerald is still struggling, but hamstring injuries can linger for a couple years with wide receivers. Ask Isaac Bruce.

Boldin put up 83 receptions for 1203 yards and 4 TDs last year on an underachieving team with a bad offensive line, a lame duck coach, and a lame duck quarterback who gave way to a rookie quarterback who struggled while the #2 receiver across from him was hurt.

Boldin has a 185 VBD over the past four years. Fitzgerald has a 102 VBD over the last three years.

Boldin has now succeeded under two coaches and four quarterbacks. Fitzgerald has only seen life with Denny Green, with whom he had a long time relationship. This might explain why Fitzgerald was in on the goal line, while Boldin wasn't.

Why is Fitzgerald considered the better player?

 

[tommyGunZ]

I think it's hilarious that folks trip over themselves to find reasons to draft Lienart high, yet Philip Rivers sits back in the rankings in a far better offense with far fewer question marks and quietly remains the best QB value in both dynasty and redrafts.

Keep the Lienart hype alive so I can keep stealing Rivers two rounds later. :(

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Why does everyone assume Fitzgerald will do better than Boldin? Fitzgerald's rookie year, when he was supposed to set the world on fire, was very good. 58 receptions for 780 yards and 8 TDs. Boldin's rookie season was slightly better: 101 receptions for 1377 yards and 8 TDs. Fitzgerald's best year, 2005, was 103 receptions for 1409 yards and 10 TDs. That same year, Boldin had 102 receptions for 1402 yards and 7 TDs. Boldin was injured in 2004. Fitzgerald was injured more recently. Neither appears to have been career impacting, and I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitzgerald is still struggling, but hamstring injuries can linger for a couple years with wide receivers. Ask Isaac Bruce. Boldin put up 83 receptions for 1203 yards and 4 TDs last year on an underachieving team with a bad offensive line, a lame duck coach, and a lame duck quarterback who gave way to a rookie quarterback who struggled while the #2 receiver across from him was hurt. Boldin has a 185 VBD over the past four years. Fitzgerald has a 102 VBD over the last three years. Boldin has now succeeded under two coaches and four quarterbacks. Fitzgerald has only seen life with Denny Green, with whom he had a long time relationship. This might explain why Fitzgerald was in on the goal line, while Boldin wasn't. Why is Fitzgerald considered the better player?

:( I touched on this in the Fitzgerald thread. Boldin does not get enough credit. So many keep saying Fitz he is the sure number 1 pick in dynasty and although he should remain one of the top WR picks, I don't like taking him number 1 at all.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Why does everyone assume Fitzgerald will do better than Boldin? Fitzgerald's rookie year, when he was supposed to set the world on fire, was very good. 58 receptions for 780 yards and 8 TDs. Boldin's rookie season was slightly better: 101 receptions for 1377 yards and 8 TDs. Fitzgerald's best year, 2005, was 103 receptions for 1409 yards and 10 TDs. That same year, Boldin had 102 receptions for 1402 yards and 7 TDs. Boldin was injured in 2004. Fitzgerald was injured more recently. Neither appears to have been career impacting, and I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitzgerald is still struggling, but hamstring injuries can linger for a couple years with wide receivers. Ask Isaac Bruce. Boldin put up 83 receptions for 1203 yards and 4 TDs last year on an underachieving team with a bad offensive line, a lame duck coach, and a lame duck quarterback who gave way to a rookie quarterback who struggled while the #2 receiver across from him was hurt. Boldin has a 185 VBD over the past four years. Fitzgerald has a 102 VBD over the last three years. Boldin has now succeeded under two coaches and four quarterbacks. Fitzgerald has only seen life with Denny Green, with whom he had a long time relationship. This might explain why Fitzgerald was in on the goal line, while Boldin wasn't. Why is Fitzgerald considered the better player?

Fitz has 24 TD in 2.5 seasons...how many does Boldin have in his 4 seasons? Fitz scores more TD...every TD Boldin has to make up for with 60 more yds...or 6 more catches. When Fitz was in his 2nd year he did technically have more catches, yds and 3 more TDs...Fitz has more talent and to deny that is not being honest about what you have seen thru college and the pros. Is Boldin a hard worker? Yes, and he runs well and very hard after the catch...but Fitz has more skills and tools...you can't really argue that. We can spin stats however we like but from an honest talent evaluation, Fitz wins hands down even if he was getting less TDs but that isn't the case.But the bigger point in post #49 is the impact on Cardinals passing game as a whole.

 

[Chase Stuart]

I think it's hilarious that folks trip over themselves to find reasons to draft Lienart high, yet Philip Rivers sits back in the rankings in a far better offense with far fewer question marks and quietly remains the best QB value in both dynasty and redrafts.Keep the Lienart hype alive so I can keep stealing Rivers two rounds later.

Leinart averaged (ever so slightly) more FP/adjG last year. Rivers played in 15.8 adjusted games, Leinart 10.7.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Why does everyone assume Fitzgerald will do better than Boldin?

Fitzgerald's rookie year, when he was supposed to set the world on fire, was very good. 58 receptions for 780 yards and 8 TDs. Boldin's rookie season was slightly better: 101 receptions for 1377 yards and 8 TDs.

Fitzgerald's best year, 2005, was 103 receptions for 1409 yards and 10 TDs. That same year, Boldin had 102 receptions for 1402 yards and 7 TDs.

Boldin was injured in 2004. Fitzgerald was injured more recently. Neither appears to have been career impacting, and I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitzgerald is still struggling, but hamstring injuries can linger for a couple years with wide receivers. Ask Isaac Bruce.

Boldin put up 83 receptions for 1203 yards and 4 TDs last year on an underachieving team with a bad offensive line, a lame duck coach, and a lame duck quarterback who gave way to a rookie quarterback who struggled while the #2 receiver across from him was hurt.

Boldin has a 185 VBD over the past four years. Fitzgerald has a 102 VBD over the last three years.

Boldin has now succeeded under two coaches and four quarterbacks. Fitzgerald has only seen life with Denny Green, with whom he had a long time relationship. This might explain why Fitzgerald was in on the goal line, while Boldin wasn't.

Why is Fitzgerald considered the better player?

Fitz has 24 TD in 2.5 seasons...how many does Boldin have in his 4 seasons? Fitz scores more TD...every TD Boldin has to make up for with 60 more yds...or 6 more catches. When Fitz was in his 2nd year he did technically have more catches, yds and 3 more TDs...Fitz has more talent and to deny that is not being honest about what you have seen thru college and the pros. Is Boldin a hard worker? Yes, and he runs well and very hard after the catch...but Fitz has more skills and tools...you can't really argue that. We can spin stats however we like but from an honest talent evaluation, Fitz wins hands down even if he was getting less TDs but that isn't the case.

But the bigger point in post #49 is the impact on Cardinals passing game as a whole.

I believe you are using that term 2.5 lightly. Fitz played 13 games in that half year. Boldin has played 56 games in the NFl vs Fitzgerald who has played 45 games in the NFL. So let us look at their actual stats on a per game basis.

Boldin in 56 games has 342 receptions for 4605 yards and 20 TD's

averags per game

-6.1 receptions per game

-82 yards per game

-.357 TD's per game

Fitzerald in 45 games has 230 reception for 3135 yards and 24 TD's

-5.1 receptions per game

-69.6 yards per game

-.53 TD's per game

If you work out their career averages over a 16 game schedule 1 year in the NFl it would look like this.

Boldin

97.6 receptions

1312 yards

5.7 TD's

Fitzgerald

81.6 receptions

1113 yards

8.4 TD's

Now why is Fitzerald such a better player again???

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Why does everyone assume Fitzgerald will do better than Boldin? Fitzgerald's rookie year, when he was supposed to set the world on fire, was very good. 58 receptions for 780 yards and 8 TDs. Boldin's rookie season was slightly better: 101 receptions for 1377 yards and 8 TDs. Fitzgerald's best year, 2005, was 103 receptions for 1409 yards and 10 TDs. That same year, Boldin had 102 receptions for 1402 yards and 7 TDs. Boldin was injured in 2004. Fitzgerald was injured more recently. Neither appears to have been career impacting, and I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitzgerald is still struggling, but hamstring injuries can linger for a couple years with wide receivers. Ask Isaac Bruce. Boldin put up 83 receptions for 1203 yards and 4 TDs last year on an underachieving team with a bad offensive line, a lame duck coach, and a lame duck quarterback who gave way to a rookie quarterback who struggled while the #2 receiver across from him was hurt. Boldin has a 185 VBD over the past four years. Fitzgerald has a 102 VBD over the last three years. Boldin has now succeeded under two coaches and four quarterbacks. Fitzgerald has only seen life with Denny Green, with whom he had a long time relationship. This might explain why Fitzgerald was in on the goal line, while Boldin wasn't. Why is Fitzgerald considered the better player?

I touched on this in the Fitzgerald thread. Boldin does not get enough credit. So many keep saying Fitz he is the sure number 1 pick in dynasty and although he should remain one of the top WR picks, I don't like taking him number 1 at all.

It would be evident if you actually WATCHED the two players.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Why does everyone assume Fitzgerald will do better than Boldin?

Fitzgerald's rookie year, when he was supposed to set the world on fire, was very good. 58 receptions for 780 yards and 8 TDs. Boldin's rookie season was slightly better: 101 receptions for 1377 yards and 8 TDs.

Fitzgerald's best year, 2005, was 103 receptions for 1409 yards and 10 TDs. That same year, Boldin had 102 receptions for 1402 yards and 7 TDs.

Boldin was injured in 2004. Fitzgerald was injured more recently. Neither appears to have been career impacting, and I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitzgerald is still struggling, but hamstring injuries can linger for a couple years with wide receivers. Ask Isaac Bruce.

Boldin put up 83 receptions for 1203 yards and 4 TDs last year on an underachieving team with a bad offensive line, a lame duck coach, and a lame duck quarterback who gave way to a rookie quarterback who struggled while the #2 receiver across from him was hurt.

Boldin has a 185 VBD over the past four years. Fitzgerald has a 102 VBD over the last three years.

Boldin has now succeeded under two coaches and four quarterbacks. Fitzgerald has only seen life with Denny Green, with whom he had a long time relationship. This might explain why Fitzgerald was in on the goal line, while Boldin wasn't.

Why is Fitzgerald considered the better player?

Fitz has 24 TD in 2.5 seasons...how many does Boldin have in his 4 seasons? Fitz scores more TD...every TD Boldin has to make up for with 60 more yds...or 6 more catches. When Fitz was in his 2nd year he did technically have more catches, yds and 3 more TDs...Fitz has more talent and to deny that is not being honest about what you have seen thru college and the pros. Is Boldin a hard worker? Yes, and he runs well and very hard after the catch...but Fitz has more skills and tools...you can't really argue that. We can spin stats however we like but from an honest talent evaluation, Fitz wins hands down even if he was getting less TDs but that isn't the case.

But the bigger point in post #49 is the impact on Cardinals passing game as a whole.

I believe you are using that term 2.5 lightly. Fitz played 13 games in that half year. Boldin has played 56 games in the NFl vs Fitzgerald who has played 45 games in the NFL. So let us look at their actual stats on a per game basis.

Boldin in 56 games has 342 receptions for 4605 yards and 20 TD's

averags per game

-6.1 receptions per game

-82 yards per game

-.357 TD's per game

Fitzerald in 45 games has 230 reception for 3135 yards and 24 TD's

-5.1 receptions per game

-69.6 yards per game

-.53 TD's per game

If you work out their career averages over a 16 game schedule 1 year in the NFl it would look like this.

Boldin

97.6 receptions

1312 yards

5.7 TD's

Fitzgerald

81.6 receptions

1113 yards

8.4 TD's

Now why is Fitzerald such a better player again???

Hey Carter, I guess nothing that anyone writes will sway people of your belief in Boldin. The point of my last post and bumping this thread is the impact of the new offense on the passing game. I promise you both WR are not going to ever post 100+ catches again together in one season. So the real question is who takes a slight bump down...and I think Fitz can actually up his TD to overcome a few less catches and yds, but Boldin cannot. AB has avg 5-6TD IIRC so far in his career...a number that could bottom out if they pass less at like 3-4 this season. Didn't he post 4 TD last season with Fitz missing some real time too and playing from behind?If you like Boldin, great, but the days of both of them posting 80-100+ catches I think is nearing the end. IN fact if you want to put a bet together that is reasonable I will take Fitz, you take Boldin and lets see who ends 2007 with better stats. Short of injury Fitz will have the better season...he has more skills and it is deeper than just stats...although he is the one WR out of the two to post 1,400 yds AND double digit TD in the same season so he has posted the best numbers so far in a given year.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Now why is Fitzerald such a better player again???

Watch the two play, instead of being on fixated on stats from the past.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Now why is Fitzerald such a better player again???

Watch the two play, instead of being on fixated on stats from the past.

Moving forward there is no indication at ALL that Fitzgerald will be the better receiver out of the 2. I understand Fitz has loads of talent (probably even more than Boldin), but at the end of the day it is the stats in fantasy that count. Right now, Boldin is winning that race. Will Fitz out produce Boldin? maybe. But will it be enough productin that it warrants taking Fitzerald 2-3 rounds earlier?Also, you can respond in the Boldin vs Fitz thread so this thread does not continue to get hi-jacked.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Now why is Fitzerald such a better player again???

Watch the two play, instead of being on fixated on stats from the past.

Moving forward there is no indication at ALL that Fitzgerald will be the better receiver out of the 2. I understand Fitz has loads of talent (probably even more than Boldin), but at the end of the day it is the stats in fantasy that count. Right now, Boldin is winning that race. Will Fitz out produce Boldin? maybe. But will it be enough productin that it warrants taking Fitzerald 2-3 rounds earlier?Also, you can respond in the Boldin vs Fitz thread so this thread does not continue to get hi-jacked.

Already did, my friend

 

[bostonfred]

Why does everyone assume Fitzgerald will do better than Boldin? Fitzgerald's rookie year, when he was supposed to set the world on fire, was very good. 58 receptions for 780 yards and 8 TDs. Boldin's rookie season was slightly better: 101 receptions for 1377 yards and 8 TDs. Fitzgerald's best year, 2005, was 103 receptions for 1409 yards and 10 TDs. That same year, Boldin had 102 receptions for 1402 yards and 7 TDs. Boldin was injured in 2004. Fitzgerald was injured more recently. Neither appears to have been career impacting, and I haven't heard anything to suggest that Fitzgerald is still struggling, but hamstring injuries can linger for a couple years with wide receivers. Ask Isaac Bruce. Boldin put up 83 receptions for 1203 yards and 4 TDs last year on an underachieving team with a bad offensive line, a lame duck coach, and a lame duck quarterback who gave way to a rookie quarterback who struggled while the #2 receiver across from him was hurt. Boldin has a 185 VBD over the past four years. Fitzgerald has a 102 VBD over the last three years. Boldin has now succeeded under two coaches and four quarterbacks. Fitzgerald has only seen life with Denny Green, with whom he had a long time relationship. This might explain why Fitzgerald was in on the goal line, while Boldin wasn't. Why is Fitzgerald considered the better player?

Fitz has 24 TD in 2.5 seasons...how many does Boldin have in his 4 seasons? Fitz scores more TD...every TD Boldin has to make up for with 60 more yds...or 6 more catches. When Fitz was in his 2nd year he did technically have more catches, yds and 3 more TDs...Fitz has more talent and to deny that is not being honest about what you have seen thru college and the pros. Is Boldin a hard worker? Yes, and he runs well and very hard after the catch...but Fitz has more skills and tools...you can't really argue that. We can spin stats however we like but from an honest talent evaluation, Fitz wins hands down even if he was getting less TDs but that isn't the case.But the bigger point in post #49 is the impact on Cardinals passing game as a whole.

Boldin had 8 TDs in his rookie season. Then Denny Green came in, started taking Boldin out at the goal line, and Boldin has never reached his rookie totals again. Which seems more likely, that he somehow got worse at catching touchdowns, or that his opportunities went down? If you agree with me that it's the latter, then the next question is, do you believe that Fitzgerald will necessarily continue to be the primary goal line receiver under a new coaching regime that has no loyalty to either player? I don't dispute that Fitzgerald is talented. I don't think you dispute that Boldin is also very talented. The question is whether Boldin, who averages .5 fewer games per year, but averages 9 more receptions and 100 more yards than Fitzgerald, has a chance to make up the gap of 3 TDs a year. In other words, in a PPR league, can Boldin, who has, by per season average, outscored Fitzgerald in fewer games played, become an even better fantasy player? And more importantly, is it a smarter gamble to take Boldin having his fourth 1000 yard season in five years, or Fitzgerald having his second in four years? To bet on Boldin having his third 7+ TD season in five seasons, or Fitgerald to have his third in four? To bet on Boldin having this third 100+ reception season in five years, or Fitzgerald to have his second in four? Across the board, Boldin seems like the safer and better bet to me. It's not wrong to bet on Fitzgerald achieving the potential that he's seen, but it seems wrong to bet so much more on it than on Boldin.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Let's go a different way. Let's get off the Boldin vs Fitz arguement...Boldin is better, there you win.

Let's concentrate on something more concerning. What if all the passing numbers go down and both Fitz and Boldin take a hit? Instead of bickering who will have more stats let's assume they both take a slide. Let's look at the Steelers the past few seasons.

2006

Hines Ward 74/975/6

San Holmes 49/824/2

N.Washington 35/624/4

2005

Hines Ward 69/975/11

An Randle El 35/558/1

I don't know how long he was the OC there in Pittsburgh but there really is no track record of 2 WR going over 80+ receptions each let alone 100+...why is Fitz going at 2.01, and Boldin in the middle of the 3rd exactly? My point for everything so far is not which WR is better but that Sharks need to hear a lot of warning here and possibly sidestep this situation.

On the other hand Edge who keeps falling lower and lower is looking like a very nice value pick and shoe in for 320 carries in this offense.

 

[Carter_Can_Fly]

Let's go a different way. Let's get off the Boldin vs Fitz arguement...Boldin is better, there you win.Let's concentrate on something more concerning. What if all the passing numbers go down and both Fitz and Boldin take a hit? Instead of bickering who will have more stats let's assume they both take a slide. Let's look at the Steelers the past few seasons.2006Hines Ward 74/975/6San Holmes 49/824/2N.Washington 35/624/42005Hines Ward 69/975/11An Randle El 35/558/1I don't know how long he was the OC there in Pittsburgh but there really is no track record of 2 WR going over 80+ receptions each let alone 100+...why is Fitz going at 2.01, and Boldin in the middle of the 3rd exactly? My point for everything so far is not which WR is better but that Sharks need to hear a lot of warning here and possibly sidestep this situation.On the other hand Edge who keeps falling lower and lower is looking like a very nice value pick and shoe in for 320 carries in this offense.

Good point. I agree with what you are saying and this is one of the reasons I stayed away from drafting Boldin and Fitzerald.

 

[David Yudkin]

Let's go a different way. Let's get off the Boldin vs Fitz arguement...Boldin is better, there you win.Let's concentrate on something more concerning. What if all the passing numbers go down and both Fitz and Boldin take a hit? Instead of bickering who will have more stats let's assume they both take a slide. Let's look at the Steelers the past few seasons.2006Hines Ward 74/975/6San Holmes 49/824/2N.Washington 35/624/42005Hines Ward 69/975/11An Randle El 35/558/1I don't know how long he was the OC there in Pittsburgh but there really is no track record of 2 WR going over 80+ receptions each let alone 100+...why is Fitz going at 2.01, and Boldin in the middle of the 3rd exactly? My point for everything so far is not which WR is better but that Sharks need to hear a lot of warning here and possibly sidestep this situation.On the other hand Edge who keeps falling lower and lower is looking like a very nice value pick and shoe in for 320 carries in this offense.

The Whiz was OC in PIT for three seasons. I spelled all this out in a Fitz Face Off for the FBG magazine . . .

Larry Fitzgerald is currently ranked as the #3 fantasy wide receiver, but there are telltale signs that point to him ending the year well below that ranking. People remember Fitzgerald’s stellar 2005 campaign when he finished as the #2 fantasy receiver, but much has changed in Arizona since then. While the Cardinals seem to be on the rise, the changes being implemented in the dessert DO NOT bode well for Fitzgerald. Since 2000, the #3 ranked fantasy wide receiver has averaged 206 points—which works out to 12.9 fantasy points per game over a 16-game season.Fitzgerald has been a beast in his young career—the problem being that his highest production levels have come with KURT WARNER at quarterback. Fitzgerald has not been anywhere near as productive with other quarterbacks leading the offense. He’s been roughly 25% less productive without Warner: · In 15 games with Warner at QB: 12.25 fantasy ppg· In 30 games with other QBs: 9.13 fantasy ppg· In 7 games with Leinart at QB: 9.7 fantasy ppgAt that fantasy-scoring rate, Fitzgerald would have ranked as the #14 fantasy wide receiver last year.The 2007 Cardinals are not the 2005 Cardinals and now have Ken Whisenhunt as head coach. The 2005 Cardinals far and away led the league with 670 passing attempts—very close to the league record of 699. By comparison, that same year the Pittsburgh Steelers (with Whisenhunt as offensive coordinator) had just 379 passing attempts. The prior season, the Steelers had 618 RUSHING attempts (to go along with a meager 358 passing attempts). This year, there’s already been some early talk about getting the Cardinals up to 550 rushing attempts.While it’s unlikely the Cardinals will transform from a prolific passing team to a pound-the-ball-on-the-ground-all-game team in three seasons, there is a good chance that the team sees a noticeable drop-off in passing attempts and a decent increase in rushing attempts. With another young Pro Bowl wide receiver lining up opposite Fitzgerald (Anquan Boldin), Fitzgerald will continue to share the receiving workload, which again should limit his production. In fact, since Fitzgerald started his career, Boldin has averaged almost a full reception more per game (6.03 for Boldin vs, 5.11 for Fitzgerald).Factoring all these elements into the mix, it appears people are paying for Fitzgerald’s 2005 production even though his stock appears to have dipped since then given the current market conditions. With the way the Cardinals are evolving, Fitzgerald may struggle to rank in the Top 10 receivers this year.

 

[David Yudkin]

In case people missed it . . .

The Cardinals rushed just 419 times in 2006, seventh-lowest in the league, while passing on 58% of their snaps. Whisenhunt, who called runs on 57% of the snaps during the 2005 season en route to the Steelers' Super Bowl title, has said he wants to run 600 times.

LINKWhile I doubt the Cardinals defense can keep their offense on the field and keep Arizona ahead, the writing is on the wall that the Cardinals will try to run WAY more than they have in recent seasons. And even if they do run they for now won't be confused with the Chiefs or Broncos O-line from the past 5 years.

 

[John Maddens Lunchbox]

Oh it matters Chase...weird things happen in Arizona just like in Cleveland where they haven't had a 1,000 yd rusher since Schottenheimer was in charge.

2005 cle | 16 | 309 1232 4.0 2 | 39 369 9.5 0 Who is Reuben Droughns?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Saw the other thread on AZ passing game..does anyone still think its going to be bombs away?