Baltimore: The Next Ferguson? (3 Viewers)

[jonessed]

Homicide. All officers to be charged.

Officers did not have probable cause to arrest Gray, Mosby says, was an illegal arrest.

There must be a ton of evidence no one has heard of yet.

 

[The_Man]

Officers being charged with second-degree "depraved heart" murder, involuntary manslaughter and assault, among other charges

WOW

 

[The_Man]

ALL SIX officers are criminally charged, Mosby says

 

[timschochet]

Homicide. All officers to be charged.

Officers did not have probable cause to arrest Gray, Mosby says, was an illegal arrest.

There must be a ton of evidence no one has heard of yet.

or perhaps they find the known evidence to be more compelling than you do?

 

[jonessed]

Homicide. All officers to be charged.

Officers did not have probable cause to arrest Gray, Mosby says, was an illegal arrest.

There must be a ton of evidence no one has heard of yet.

or perhaps they find the known evidence to be more compelling than you do?

All six officers for murder? .

 

[The_Man]

Ok, no more live reTweeting for me - sorry if that was spammy

The litany of lies that have come out over the past week have been unbelievable and have been impeached at every turn.

Gray had a pre-existing spinal condition.

A passenger in the van heard Gray trying to harm himself.

Gray crushed his own voice box.

And on and on.

Now it turns out that not only did the Police not have probable cause to arrest him in the first place, the charge they eventually put on him was bogus because he wasn't carrying a switchblade.

 

[TheIronSheik]

Homicide. All officers to be charged.

Officers did not have probable cause to arrest Gray, Mosby says, was an illegal arrest.

There must be a ton of evidence no one has heard of yet.

or perhaps they find the known evidence to be more compelling than you do?

For murder? .

I could be wrong, but isn't this similar to the Tony Stewart thing? Send this to the grand jury and it won't go any further. But at least the person in charge doesn't look bad for saying the cops aren't guilty of murder.

 

[The_Man]

A warrant has been issued for the arrest of the 6 officers.

That is hard core.

Somehow I doubt they'll get a rough ride to Central Booking.

 

[timschochet]

Homicide. All officers to be charged.

Officers did not have probable cause to arrest Gray, Mosby says, was an illegal arrest.

There must be a ton of evidence no one has heard of yet.

or perhaps they find the known evidence to be more compelling than you do?

All six officers for murder? .

if there's probable cause why not?

 

[Baloney Sandwich]

Mosby has a pretty face, can't really see her body behind the podium though.

 

[The_Man]

2nd Degree homicide for the driver, manslaughter and assault for the others

 

[KCitons]

The plot thickens.

Again.

 

[Hang 10]

It will definitely be interesting to see what evidence there is to charge all 6 with murder. That is crazy.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Ok, no more live reTweeting for me - sorry if that was spammy

Just want to mention that I appreciated it. I (and I assume many others) were counting on this thread for updates.

 

[Hang 10]

2nd Degree homicide for the driver, manslaughter and assault for the others

So they must be going with the driver broke his spine on purpose with the rough ride? That seems impossible to prove.

 

[The_Man]

So, in the eyes of the State of Maryland, 6 police officers:

Illegally arrested a man who was not committing any crime

Inflicted grievous physical injury on this man, crushing his voice box and nearly severing his spine

Failed to render him medical aid even after it became apparent they had severely injured him

 

[Apple Jack]

I'm waiting for my man...

Heroin dealers are not exactly my idea of the best our society have to offer. But neither they, no anyone else, deserve to die unlawfully at the

hands of police.

Of course not, but we are products of our environment to a large degree, especially at

young ages, and that's the environment. Those of the jobs that pay. That is the way to be cool, when that is important. It's a way to have a sense of identity.

I don't want to be a product of my environment. I want my environment to be a product of me.

Should be a successories poster with a shot of bunk and mcnulty boozin by the railroad track.

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Shall we place our predictions on whether Baltimore's State Attorney Marilyn Mosby will charge the officers?

I say, yes, she will. Put it in a jury's hands.

Seems unlikely.

If there are charges, they will be minor. This will allow her to say, "See, I can be impartial even though I come from a cop family" while also making sure the cops can get off lightly.

Hey, we can't all be right.

 

[Apple Jack]

Murder leaves room to deal.

 

[ArbyMelt]

2nd Degree homicide for the driver, manslaughter and assault for the others

So they must be going with the driver broke his spine on purpose with the rough ride? That seems impossible to prove.

Unless the other prisoner is a credible witness and says the driver took them for a rough ride, chances of a conviction of 2nd degree murder here is 0%.

 

[Jack White]

Wow.

 

[Jack White]

Shall we place our predictions on whether Baltimore's State Attorney Marilyn Mosby will charge the officers?

I say, yes, she will. Put it in a jury's hands.

Seems unlikely.

If there are charges, they will be minor. This will allow her to say, "See, I can be impartial even though I come from a cop family" while also making sure the cops can get off lightly.

Hey, we can't all be right.

Yep, color me surprised if not shocked. Wow.

 

[jonessed]

2nd Degree homicide for the driver, manslaughter and assault for the others

So they must be going with the driver broke his spine on purpose with the rough ride? That seems impossible to prove.

Unless the other prisoner is a credible witness and says the driver took them for a rough ride, chances of a conviction of 2nd degree murder here is 0%.

One of the other riders already said there was no unusual starts, stops, bumps, etc.

 

[timschochet]

The knife in Gray's possession was not a switchblade and was lawful.

 

[CBusAlex]

2nd Degree homicide for the driver, manslaughter and assault for the others

So they must be going with the driver broke his spine on purpose with the rough ride? That seems impossible to prove.

Unless the other prisoner is a credible witness and says the driver took them for a rough ride, chances of a conviction of 2nd degree murder here is 0%.

Well, according to the internet Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life.

Don't think you need to prove intent for the second definition.

 

[matttyl]

Heroin, not heroine, use is the user's choice. Trying to justify killing corner boys because they were born into that life is asinine.

That might be the most idiotic thing you've ever said, and that's saying something. 99.9% of every heroin user is addicted and using against their own will. You've obviously never worked with drug addicts.

Says the most mocked poster in the history of the site.

I was a heroin addict for seven years. And yes, I have also "worked with drug addicts." But what would I know.

Um, you're kinda proving his point here.

 

[igbomb]

Not all charged with murder per the CNN breaking news statement:

[SIZE=12pt]One officer -- the driver of the police van -- has been charged with several counts, including second-degree depraved-heart murder. Another officer has been charged with several counts, including manslaughter and involuntary manslaughter. Two other officers have been charged with several counts, including involuntary manslaughter. And two officers are charged with several counts, including second-degree assault. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]But yeah, these guys are screwed.[/SIZE]

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Mosby press conference at 10:30.

Also, word is that the Medical Examiner's report is complete. Hoping she lays out the timetable for charging decision to be made. Not going to be today, as had been the rumor earlier in the week

In your defense, that was a fast moving investigation and quick decision to charge immediately thereafter. I wonder if the rioters feel foolish for destroying their city in the short window in between or if they feel like they sped up the process and influenced the decision to charge.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Shall we place our predictions on whether Baltimore's State Attorney Marilyn Mosby will charge the officers?

I say, yes, she will. Put it in a jury's hands.

I don't care what she does just as long as I can keep looking at her. Hotter than the mayor IMO.

 

[TobiasFunke]

A lot of people here seem to be confusing a prosecutor's decision to bring certain charges against someone with a state's decision that the person is guilty of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how it works. This is how it's supposed to work ... and how usually does work when the person you're charging is not a cop.

 

[KCitons]

Mosby press conference at 10:30.

Also, word is that the Medical Examiner's report is complete. Hoping she lays out the timetable for charging decision to be made. Not going to be today, as had been the rumor earlier in the week

In your defense, that was a fast moving investigation and quick decision to charge immediately thereafter. I wonder if the rioters feel foolish for destroying their city in the short window in between or if they feel like they sped up the process.

You are assuming the rioters have feelings.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

A lot of people here seem to be confusing a prosecutor's decision to bring certain charges against someone with a state's decision that the person is guilty of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how it works. This is how it's supposed to work ... and how usually does work when the person you're charging is not a cop.

You were right, homicide!

 

[Apple Jack]

Heroin, not heroine, use is the user's choice. Trying to justify killing corner boys because they were born into that life is asinine.

That might be the most idiotic thing you've ever said, and that's saying something. 99.9% of every heroin user is addicted and using against their own will. You've obviously never worked with drug addicts.

Says the most mocked poster in the history of the site.

I was a heroin addict for seven years. And yes, I have also "worked with drug addicts." But what would I know.

Um, you're kinda proving his point here.

Um, not really. Hint: it's not simply one or the other.

 

[TobiasFunke]

A lot of people here seem to be confusing a prosecutor's decision to bring certain charges against someone with a state's decision that the person is guilty of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how it works. This is how it's supposed to work ... and how usually does work when the person you're charging is not a cop.

You were right, homicide!

Once you decide you're going to charge someone with criminal conduct you might as well throw the book at them. Like I said, that's how it would work if the alleged criminals were civilians. Refreshing to see a prosecutor actually playing the role of a prosecutor in one of these cases instead of playing judge and jury.

 

[matttyl]

Heroin, not heroine, use is the user's choice. Trying to justify killing corner boys because they were born into that life is asinine.

That might be the most idiotic thing you've ever said, and that's saying something. 99.9% of every heroin user is addicted and using against their own will. You've obviously never worked with drug addicts.

Says the most mocked poster in the history of the site.

I was a heroin addict for seven years. And yes, I have also "worked with drug addicts." But what would I know.

Um, you're kinda proving his point here.

Um, not really. Hint: it's not simply one or the other.

I'll be honest, I've never dealt with anyone addicted or who has even recreationally tried heroine (if that's a thing), but he's saying the vast majority of users are addicted, then you try to say he's wrong by saying "I was addicted to heroine", thus proving his point......

 

[BustedKnuckles]

Soothing the masses

 

[Ditka Butkus]

IMO opinion to some extent the protestors (because how they protest) only hurt their cause and will end up losing respect from the majority of the general public.

 

[RCon]

2nd Degree homicide for the driver, manslaughter and assault for the others

So they must be going with the driver broke his spine on purpose with the rough ride? That seems impossible to prove.

Unless the other prisoner is a credible witness and says the driver took them for a rough ride, chances of a conviction of 2nd degree murder here is 0%.

Well, according to the internet Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life.

Don't think you need to prove intent for the second definition.

Haven't followed which officer did what, but I would imagine you would need to prove that the driver knew that Gray wasn't buckled or restrained. If other officers forgot to buckle him, but the driver didn't know that, this seems like a tough charge, especially considering the recently modified protocol that called for all prisoners to be buckled. Of course, if the driver assisted in putting Gray in the van and therefore did know, this would become easier.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

A lot of people here seem to be confusing a prosecutor's decision to bring certain charges against someone with a state's decision that the person is guilty of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how it works. This is how it's supposed to work ... and how usually does work when the person you're charging is not a cop.

You were right, homicide!

Once you decide you're going to charge someone with criminal conduct you might as well throw the book at them. Like I said, that's how it would work if the alleged criminals were civilians. Refreshing to see a prosecutor actually playing the role of a prosecutor in one of these cases instead of playing judge and jury.

It took the US attorney here in New Orleans twice under much more egregious circumstances in two different cases.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

A lot of people here seem to be confusing a prosecutor's decision to bring certain charges against someone with a state's decision that the person is guilty of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how it works. This is how it's supposed to work ... and how usually does work when the person you're charging is not a cop.

You were right, homicide!

Of course that does not mean they will be convicted. Eric Garner s case was declared Homicide too.

 

[Apple Jack]

Heroin, not heroine, use is the user's choice. Trying to justify killing corner boys because they were born into that life is asinine.

That might be the most idiotic thing you've ever said, and that's saying something. 99.9% of every heroin user is addicted and using against their own will. You've obviously never worked with drug addicts.

Says the most mocked poster in the history of the site.

I was a heroin addict for seven years. And yes, I have also "worked with drug addicts." But what would I know.

Um, you're kinda proving his point here.

Um, not really. Hint: it's not simply one or the other.

I'll be honest, I've never dealt with anyone addicted or who has even recreationally tried heroine (if that's a thing), but he's saying the vast majority of users are addicted, then you try to say he's wrong by saying "I was addicted to heroine", thus proving his point......

Using in the first place is a choice. As I said, addiction/maintenance is a whole other makeup of responsibility. But if there must be accountability, it's in letting the horse out of the barn in the first place.

 

[RCon]

Once you decide you're going to charge someone with criminal conduct you might as well throw the book at them. Like I said, that's how it would work if the alleged criminals were civilians. Refreshing to see a prosecutor actually playing the role of a prosecutor in one of these cases instead of playing judge and jury.

You may be right that this is how it normally works when the defendants are civilians, but I don't think that's how it should work. Prosecutors shouldn't be overcharging with the intent to make a plea deal later. Such a practice would seem to be unfair to the poor, who can't afford good attorneys and have to rely on public defenders.

 

[BustedKnuckles]

A lot of people here seem to be confusing a prosecutor's decision to bring certain charges against someone with a state's decision that the person is guilty of the charge beyond a reasonable doubt. That's not how it works. This is how it's supposed to work ... and how usually does work when the person you're charging is not a cop.

You were right, homicide!

Of course that does not mean they will be convicted. Eric Garner s case was declared Homicide too.

and the famous Rodney King case

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wonder what all these fine gentlemen are doing on Pennsylvania Avenue this Friday morning.

Union meeting?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Heroin, not heroine, use is the users choice to use. Trying to justify killing corner boys because they were born into that life is asinine.

So then don't judge him, what's your estimate on his body count?

People he has killed? Zero.

Again, your implication that there was justification for his killing is pathetic.

Implications work both ways. I didn't imply that and I don't think it. In fact I stated the opposite (in my OP). Thanks.

 

[squistion]

The Post article just hit the web...http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

IF this really was the case, did no one ask this prisoner before hand? And if so why not release that info earlier?

Because they were still investigating?

sadly, this sounds about as credible as the report yesterday that freddie gray had spinal surgury the week before.

It's the Washington Post. The story is credible.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Once you decide you're going to charge someone with criminal conduct you might as well throw the book at them. Like I said, that's how it would work if the alleged criminals were civilians. Refreshing to see a prosecutor actually playing the role of a prosecutor in one of these cases instead of playing judge and jury.

You may be right that this is how it normally works when the defendants are civilians, but I don't think that's how it should work. Prosecutors shouldn't be overcharging with the intent to make a plea deal later. Such a practice would seem to be unfair to the poor, who can't afford good attorneys and have to rely on public defenders.

Yeah I agree. There's some gray there- you don't want them charging everything they can list despite the evidence, but you also don't want them restricting the charges only to things they feel 99% certain they can get guilty verdicts on. And obviously I can't tell exactly how much this prosecutor is reaching because I don't have all the evidence. Maybe a ton, maybe not at all.

Still, regardless of what you think about exactly where to draw the lines I'm just happy to see the same general attitude and decisionmaking process when the accused is a police officer. I think that's how it should be.

 

[GroveDiesel]

2nd Degree homicide for the driver, manslaughter and assault for the others

So they must be going with the driver broke his spine on purpose with the rough ride? That seems impossible to prove.

Unless the other prisoner is a credible witness and says the driver took them for a rough ride, chances of a conviction of 2nd degree murder here is 0%.

Well, according to the internet Second-degree murder is ordinarily defined as: 1) an intentional killing that is not premeditated or planned, nor committed in a reasonable "heat of passion"; or 2) a killing caused by dangerous conduct and the offender's obvious lack of concern for human life.

Don't think you need to prove intent for the second definition.

Haven't followed which officer did what, but I would imagine you would need to prove that the driver knew that Gray wasn't buckled or restrained. If other officers forgot to buckle him, but the driver didn't know that, this seems like a tough charge, especially considering the recently modified protocol that called for all prisoners to be buckled. Of course, if the driver assisted in putting Gray in the van and therefore did know, this would become easier.

It depends on if they have any actual evidence that "hard stops" we're involved. If they do, then I think the homicide charge would seem legit.

 

[ArbyMelt]

Whats the race/ethnicity of these 6 officers? Can't find it on google. Can only find the names.

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Seems like the rioters and looters may have jumped the gun on burning down and destroying their neighborhood.