Baltimore: The Next Ferguson? (1 Viewer)

[General Tso]

Also, the reason people aren't jumping to the conclusion that you seem to have jumped to is because there simply isn't a long term pattern or epidemic of violence towards cops.

Right - it's a short term pattern. In the last 5 months:-Number of people who died during interactions or in the custody of NYPD - 1-Number of NYPD cops murdered - 3Those are the facts Pinky.

I don't know what point you are trying to make with these "facts" of the number of officer versus citizen deaths over a five month period. It looks impressive, "3-1 cops are killed by civilians over civilians by cops!" but doesn't prove much of anything by focusing on such a narrow time line. I doubt anyone who has studied statistics would find the numbers significant or that they suggested a trend.A longer term look at these numbers shows something entirely different (taken from a December 2014 article after the other two NYPD officers were slain):http://photographyisnotacrime.com/2014/12/police-accountability-must-continue-wake-nypd-shooting-deaths-despite-union-rhetoric/Police Killings are Rare Compared to Citizens Killed by PoliceThe two cops killed Saturday, Wenjin Liu and Rafael Ramos, were the first NYPD cops shot in the line of duty since December 2011.During that time, countless citizens have been killed by NYPD cops, including 24 shooting deaths in 2012 and 2013, as well as the chokehold death of Eric Garner in August and the shooting death of Akai Gurley while walking down a stairwell by a rookie cop claiming it was an accidental discharge.A grand jury refused to indict NYPD officer Danny Pantaleo in the choking death of Garner and it is expected that Peter Liang, who shot Gurley in the stairwell, will also get off.In fact, since 1999, NYPD cops have killed 179 people, 48 whom were unarmed, according to a New York Daily News investigation. Of those incidents, only three cops were indicted and only one was convicted, but never served jail time.During those same 15 years, 12 police officers were killed by gunfire, including Saturdays incident. Essentially, one cop killed for every four unarmed citizens killed.

What are your thoughts on the video I just posted?

Irrelevant to the above discussion of the cherry picks stats you used to try to prove a trend of some sort of criminals/civilians more frequently killing police officers than officers killing civilians.

Yeah, just as I thought.

 

[General Tso]

Mike Tobin might want to polish up his resume - http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-crew-witnesses-baltimore-police-shoot-man/

And Fox News showed themselves to be cowards today by not replaying the coverage of this afternoon's events and pretending it never happened. It's clear they are saving their own hide rather than covering something essential to this whole issue. It is relevant from a number of different standpoints:

1. It's one of the best case studies you will ever see about the "fog of war" and the relative unreliability of eyewitness testimony in these events. If people can't understand how so many people can see things so differently (Michael Brown) this is the perfect example. A Fox Executive reports seeing a man get shot in the back by police. A black female eyewitness reports the same thing, only she conveniently doesn't see that the fleeing man was carrying a gun. Word quickly spreads that a white cop shot an unarmed black man in the back and it becomes fact in an instant.

2. It shows what an impossible job the police have right now. The mob assumes the worst, and they are looking for a fight. Bystanders are videotaping everything and baiting the police endlessly.

3. The Fox Executive (Mike Tobin) not only reports that the man in the street was shot, but that "he isn't in good shape". We now know the guy wasn't shot, he just went down when he heard a shot. Was he feigning an injury? Of course he was, and it almost started a riot. It puts into better context why police may not have acted quickly enough with Freddie Gray's injuries.

Fox had a perfect opportunity to discuss these issues tonight as a great learning experience. Not only that, it was news today. Big news. But Fox isn't about news, nor is any of the media. They're about getting clicks and views, but even in that instance there's a big qualifier - as long as it doesn't call into question their performance or journalistic integrity. Just awful.

 

[squistion]

Mike Tobin might want to polish up his resume - http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-crew-witnesses-baltimore-police-shoot-man/

And Fox News showed themselves to be cowards today by not replaying the coverage of this afternoon's events and pretending it never happened. It's clear they are saving their own hide rather than covering something essential to this whole issue. It is relevant from a number of different standpoints:

They didn't pretend it didn't happen, they apologized for the shoddy reporting:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/05/fox-news-apologizes-for-false-baltimore-shooting-report-206569.html

Fox News apologizes for false Baltimore shooting report

Fox News anchor Shepard Smith apologized to viewers on Monday after one of the network's correspondents erroneously reported that a black man had been shot by police during protests there.

Earlier in the day, correspondent Mike Tobin said he saw police officers chasing a man and that "a police officer drew his weapon and fired and struck the individual who was running away.

The Baltimore Police Department soon issued a statement declaring that no such shooting had taken place: "The reports of a man being shot at North and Pennsylvania Ave are NOT true," the Baltimore PD tweeted. "Officers have arrested a man for a handgun at the location."

Tobin later told Smith that he had only heard a gunshot but did not actually witness a shooting. Smith then issued an on-air apology: "Sounds like what happened is we screwed up," he said. "Mike Tobin thought he saw somebody get shot. And there was a gun and a patient on a stretcher and there is would a woman who said she saw the cop gun him down and theres going to be violence and all the rest of that. And what we have is nothing. And the truth is, according to police, there is no gunshot victim."

"Im now in correction mode and we apparently were wrong," Smith went on to say. "Unless theres new information that comes forward, all the information now points to there was a guy running down the street, gun fell in the street, gun went off, guy was taken into custody. He complained that he was injured or something. They put him in an ambulance and, out of an an abundance of caution, the police are now telling us, they took him to the hospital. Nobody has been shot. No police officer has pulled the trigger. And on behalf of Mike Tobin and the rest of our crew there and he rest of us at Fox News, I am very sorry for the error and glad we were able to correct it quickly."

Smith's extensive apology did not prevent criticism of the network's reporting, including from Baltimore City Councilman Brandon Scott.

On Monday afternoon, Scott accused Fox News of 'irresponsible' journalism. "I'm concerned that we have members of the media being irresponsible, Scott told CNN during an interview. "We have one news outlet, Fox News, saying they saw [the shooting] happen. When you do stuff like that, irresponsibly -- media organizations are supposed to report what they know, not what they think or what their emotions are."

 

[Sand]

I don't know if I can pull off this post.

I have a problem with the indictment. Oh, it is not that I believe that there is any lack of evidence to support the charges. I think that just what has been made public supports the charges. A charge doesn't change a presumption of innocence or the ability to defend the action in answering the separate question of guilt. My problem isn't with any of this.

Instead my problem is that the indictment "says" that this "crime" was the result of six "bad" cops. I'd like to believe that, but I don't. I doubt that these six cops are bad people. I believe that they were dedicated to the goal "to protect and serve". That they were doing the job that they were hired to do. That they were doing the job the same way they had always done it, the same way that their peers perform the job everyday. While I think the community in West Baltimore would of coursed be appalled finding out that this happened - just like the rest of us there wouldn't have been a powder keg if this was just a few bad apples.

So I just can't come to accept that this is an isolated incident with six "bad cops" breaking every policy and procedure and training. No, I think these were likely six good officers practicing following questionable policies with bad procedures and inappropriate "secondary" training. Oh I so want to be wrong about this!

As for the police officers I feel sorry for them. I feel sorry that they were unlucky enough to be the ones where everything finally went wrong and the world noticed. I feel sorry for them exactly the same way I feel sorry for the Florida A&M band members that hazed the drum major to death. Which coincidentally enough.

Hopefully this is somewhat coherent.

I get the sentiment, but fundamentally a guy was shackled and in the custody of 6 officers and died as a result of a broken neck while in that custody. They became responsible for him as soon as they took control of him, and certainly they became responsible for him once his arms and legs were bound. At that point he literally had no ability to take care of himself. As far as the individual officers, I don't feel sorry for them at all. We all have to take personal responsibility for our own decisions and actions. "It's how we do it" isn't a defense, it's shirking personal responsibility. It's just blame-shifting.

Except for the sentiment of feeling sorry for the officers, I don't really disagree with any of this. Assuming there isn't something we don't know the six deserve the same kind of fate as the fifteen band members.

Given the previously undisclosed stop, I am thinking there is a lot we don't know.

FWIW I agree with Bottomfeeder. I bet these cops didn't do anything that other cops on this force don't do on a regular basis. They accidentally killed a guy, and therefore they got caught. I think this PD tacitly allowed rough and illegal techniques on corner guys all the time and now in order to save the entire department from being indicted by the JD a la Ferguson, they are nailing these six cops to the cross.

None of this really changes the fact that those six officers made choices and some of those choices led to Gray's death.

The real solution is to facilitate whistle-blowers in police the same way we want to do with corporations. Until the good cops can call out the really bad ones in a way that won't ruin their career, we'll find out about the bad guys like this instead of them being quietly removed from the force.

We'll see if the prosecution (and personally I expect a special prosecutor in a venue outside Baltimore) can prove that these choices would hace reasonably been known to lead to the injuries that Gray sustained. IMO this is going to be a difficult thing to prove.

 

[General Tso]

Mike Tobin might want to polish up his resume - http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-crew-witnesses-baltimore-police-shoot-man/And Fox News showed themselves to be cowards today by not replaying the coverage of this afternoon's events and pretending it never happened. It's clear they are saving their own hide rather than covering something essential to this whole issue. It is relevant from a number of different standpoints:

They didn't pretend it didn't happen, they apologized for the shoddy reporting:http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/05/fox-news-apologizes-for-false-baltimore-shooting-report-206569.htmlFox News apologizes for false Baltimore shooting reportFox News anchor Shepard Smith apologized to viewers on Monday after one of the network's correspondents erroneously reported that a black man had been shot by police during protests there.Earlier in the day, correspondent Mike Tobin said he saw police officers chasing a man and that "a police officer drew his weapon and fired and struck the individual who was running away.The Baltimore Police Department soon issued a statement declaring that no such shooting had taken place: "The reports of a man being shot at North and Pennsylvania Ave are NOT true," the Baltimore PD tweeted. "Officers have arrested a man for a handgun at the location."Tobin later told Smith that he had only heard a gunshot but did not actually witness a shooting. Smith then issued an on-air apology: "Sounds like what happened is we screwed up," he said. "Mike Tobin thought he saw somebody get shot. And there was a gun and a patient on a stretcher and there is would a woman who said she saw the cop gun him down and theres going to be violence and all the rest of that. And what we have is nothing. And the truth is, according to police, there is no gunshot victim.""Im now in correction mode and we apparently were wrong," Smith went on to say. "Unless theres new information that comes forward, all the information now points to there was a guy running down the street, gun fell in the street, gun went off, guy was taken into custody. He complained that he was injured or something. They put him in an ambulance and, out of an an abundance of caution, the police are now telling us, they took him to the hospital. Nobody has been shot. No police officer has pulled the trigger. And on behalf of Mike Tobin and the rest of our crew there and he rest of us at Fox News, I am very sorry for the error and glad we were able to correct it quickly."Smith's extensive apology did not prevent criticism of the network's reporting, including from Baltimore City Councilman Brandon Scott.On Monday afternoon, Scott accused Fox News of 'irresponsible' journalism. "I'm concerned that we have members of the media being irresponsible, Scott told CNN during an interview. "We have one news outlet, Fox News, saying they saw [the shooting] happen. When you do stuff like that, irresponsibly -- media organizations are supposed to report what they know, not what they think or what their emotions are."

You're wrong. Again. They haven't played any of that footage since it happened. It's as if the incident never existed.But once again you conveniently dodge talking about the real issues here, like the mob scene, the rush to judgment against the police, the impossible job they have right now, the out of control situation in the inner cities that's getting worse and worse by the day...

 

[Jack White]

Mike Tobin might want to polish up his resume - http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-crew-witnesses-baltimore-police-shoot-man/And Fox News showed themselves to be cowards today by not replaying the coverage of this afternoon's events and pretending it never happened. It's clear they are saving their own hide rather than covering something essential to this whole issue. It is relevant from a number of different standpoints:

They didn't pretend it didn't happen, they apologized for the shoddy reporting:http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/05/fox-news-apologizes-for-false-baltimore-shooting-report-206569.htmlFox News apologizes for false Baltimore shooting reportFox News anchor Shepard Smith apologized to viewers on Monday after one of the network's correspondents erroneously reported that a black man had been shot by police during protests there.Earlier in the day, correspondent Mike Tobin said he saw police officers chasing a man and that "a police officer drew his weapon and fired and struck the individual who was running away.The Baltimore Police Department soon issued a statement declaring that no such shooting had taken place: "The reports of a man being shot at North and Pennsylvania Ave are NOT true," the Baltimore PD tweeted. "Officers have arrested a man for a handgun at the location."Tobin later told Smith that he had only heard a gunshot but did not actually witness a shooting. Smith then issued an on-air apology: "Sounds like what happened is we screwed up," he said. "Mike Tobin thought he saw somebody get shot. And there was a gun and a patient on a stretcher and there is would a woman who said she saw the cop gun him down and theres going to be violence and all the rest of that. And what we have is nothing. And the truth is, according to police, there is no gunshot victim.""Im now in correction mode and we apparently were wrong," Smith went on to say. "Unless theres new information that comes forward, all the information now points to there was a guy running down the street, gun fell in the street, gun went off, guy was taken into custody. He complained that he was injured or something. They put him in an ambulance and, out of an an abundance of caution, the police are now telling us, they took him to the hospital. Nobody has been shot. No police officer has pulled the trigger. And on behalf of Mike Tobin and the rest of our crew there and he rest of us at Fox News, I am very sorry for the error and glad we were able to correct it quickly."Smith's extensive apology did not prevent criticism of the network's reporting, including from Baltimore City Councilman Brandon Scott.On Monday afternoon, Scott accused Fox News of 'irresponsible' journalism. "I'm concerned that we have members of the media being irresponsible, Scott told CNN during an interview. "We have one news outlet, Fox News, saying they saw [the shooting] happen. When you do stuff like that, irresponsibly -- media organizations are supposed to report what they know, not what they think or what their emotions are."

You're wrong. Again. They haven't played any of that footage since it happened. It's as if the incident never existed.But once again you conveniently dodge talking about the real issues here, like the mob scene, the rush to judgment against the police, the impossible job they have right now, the out of control situation in the inner cities that's getting worse and worse by the day...

No, the "real" issue that has lead to all of the above is the out-of-control, above-the-law, shoot-first-and-lie-about-it-later, low-IQ, revenue-collecting, district-court-lying, dog-killing, wrong-house-SWAT-raiding, militarized, federalized government cops.

 

[timschochet]

I don't think you could be a Baltimore policeman now and have any sort of morale left. You've been vilified as a unit and when doing your job if anyone runs from you or God forbid were to draw some kind of weapon on you, you are in a no win situation. Someone drops a gun that goes off and all of a sudden there are reports police have shot someone in the back and another mob was ready to form. Now Joy Reid is interviewing a MD State Senator who went to the hospital to see the guy who was arrested and taken to the hospital. So now we've got state senate members going to check on people arrested for carrying guns that discharge on the street.

They are going to end up with exactly what they deserve.

Interesting response. A bit horrendous actually, IMO.

The vast majority of African-Americans living in the areas where the rioting took place did not participate in the riots. They were the people who cleaned up the mess over the next few days. They are the people who are generally law-abiding, but who suspect that Gray was wrongfully killed, and who want justice. So they protest peacefully, because they don't approve or participate in violence.

Tell me, what do these people deserve?

 

[timschochet]

General Tso, there is no doubt that both the media and members of general public got that supposed shooting totally wrong today. A lot of people were irresponsible, and we're awfully lucky that nobody got hurt or killed in what could have been a repeat of last week or worse. Most of what you've written in your specific criticisms of today's events were spot on.

But that being said, you failed to look at the situation in it's larger context. Because the primary question is, why are people so willing to believe this stuff about the police? Why do African-Americans living in Baltimore regard the police with so much distrust and hostility?

 

[General Tso]

General Tso, there is no doubt that both the media and members of general public got that supposed shooting totally wrong today. A lot of people were irresponsible, and we're awfully lucky that nobody got hurt or killed in what could have been a repeat of last week or worse. Most of what you've written in your specific criticisms of today's events were spot on.

But that being said, you failed to look at the situation in it's larger context. Because the primary question is, why are people so willing to believe this stuff about the police? Why do African-Americans living in Baltimore regard the police with so much distrust and hostility?

I've never denied there wasn't a problem with police overuse of force. Read my first few posts in this thread. But what's so upsetting about Baltimore is that there's a LOT more going on that that. There's a whole segment of the population that feels completely disenfranchised right now, and it's my feeling that they are misdirecting their anger and frustration and focusing on the wrong root causes. It's tragic and sad and the results are entirely predictable. The cop are going to pull out and crime will skyrocket. And then the real fun begins when we start seeing the crips an the bloods filling in the void to bring "order" to the streets. I hope you liked the 70's Tim because we're headed right back there. Better dust off your roller skates and platform shoes.

 

[timschochet]

General Tso, there is no doubt that both the media and members of general public got that supposed shooting totally wrong today. A lot of people were irresponsible, and we're awfully lucky that nobody got hurt or killed in what could have been a repeat of last week or worse. Most of what you've written in your specific criticisms of today's events were spot on.

But that being said, you failed to look at the situation in it's larger context. Because the primary question is, why are people so willing to believe this stuff about the police? Why do African-Americans living in Baltimore regard the police with so much distrust and hostility?

I've never denied there wasn't a problem with police overuse of force. Read my first few posts in this thread. But what's so upsetting about Baltimore is that there's a LOT more going on that that. There's a whole segment of the population that feels completely disenfranchised right now, and it's my feeling that they are misdirecting their anger and frustration and focusing on the wrong root causes. It's tragic and sad and the results are entirely predictable. The cop are going to pull out and crime will skyrocket. And then the real fun begins when we start seeing the crips an the bloods filling in the void to bring "order" to the streets. I hope you liked the 70's Tim because we're headed right back there. Better dust off your roller skates and platform shoes.

General Tso, there is no doubt that both the media and members of general public got that supposed shooting totally wrong today. A lot of people were irresponsible, and we're awfully lucky that nobody got hurt or killed in what could have been a repeat of last week or worse. Most of what you've written in your specific criticisms of today's events were spot on.

But that being said, you failed to look at the situation in it's larger context. Because the primary question is, why are people so willing to believe this stuff about the police? Why do African-Americans living in Baltimore regard the police with so much distrust and hostility?

I've never denied there wasn't a problem with police overuse of force. Read my first few posts in this thread. But what's so upsetting about Baltimore is that there's a LOT more going on that that. There's a whole segment of the population that feels completely disenfranchised right now, and it's my feeling that they are misdirecting their anger and frustration and focusing on the wrong root causes. It's tragic and sad and the results are entirely predictable. The cop are going to pull out and crime will skyrocket. And then the real fun begins when we start seeing the crips an the bloods filling in the void to bring "order" to the streets. I hope you liked the 70's Tim because we're headed right back there. Better dust off your roller skates and platform shoes.

I love the 70s.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

General Tso, there is no doubt that both the media and members of general public got that supposed shooting totally wrong today. A lot of people were irresponsible, and we're awfully lucky that nobody got hurt or killed in what could have been a repeat of last week or worse. Most of what you've written in your specific criticisms of today's events were spot on.

But that being said, you failed to look at the situation in it's larger context. Because the primary question is, why are people so willing to believe this stuff about the police? Why do African-Americans living in Baltimore regard the police with so much distrust and hostility?

I've never denied there wasn't a problem with police overuse of force. Read my first few posts in this thread. But what's so upsetting about Baltimore is that there's a LOT more going on that that. There's a whole segment of the population that feels completely disenfranchised right now, and it's my feeling that they are misdirecting their anger and frustration and focusing on the wrong root causes. It's tragic and sad and the results are entirely predictable. The cop are going to pull out and crime will skyrocket. And then the real fun begins when we start seeing the crips an the bloods filling in the void to bring "order" to the streets. I hope you liked the 70's Tim because we're headed right back there. Better dust off your roller skates and platform shoes.

I hope that isn't the case as Ive said before, there are entire sections of the city that literally have zero police presence. People are just free to do as they please.

 

[TripItUp]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/22/upshot/why-workers-without-much-education-are-being-hammered.html?WT.mc_id=2015-MAY-WCASeq-UPSHOT&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=WCARETARG&_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Mike Tobin might want to polish up his resume - http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-news-crew-witnesses-baltimore-police-shoot-man/And Fox News showed themselves to be cowards today by not replaying the coverage of this afternoon's events and pretending it never happened. It's clear they are saving their own hide rather than covering something essential to this whole issue. It is relevant from a number of different standpoints:

They didn't pretend it didn't happen, they apologized for the shoddy reporting:http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2015/05/fox-news-apologizes-for-false-baltimore-shooting-report-206569.htmlFox News apologizes for false Baltimore shooting reportFox News anchor Shepard Smith apologized to viewers on Monday after one of the network's correspondents erroneously reported that a black man had been shot by police during protests there.Earlier in the day, correspondent Mike Tobin said he saw police officers chasing a man and that "a police officer drew his weapon and fired and struck the individual who was running away.The Baltimore Police Department soon issued a statement declaring that no such shooting had taken place: "The reports of a man being shot at North and Pennsylvania Ave are NOT true," the Baltimore PD tweeted. "Officers have arrested a man for a handgun at the location."Tobin later told Smith that he had only heard a gunshot but did not actually witness a shooting. Smith then issued an on-air apology: "Sounds like what happened is we screwed up," he said. "Mike Tobin thought he saw somebody get shot. And there was a gun and a patient on a stretcher and there is would a woman who said she saw the cop gun him down and theres going to be violence and all the rest of that. And what we have is nothing. And the truth is, according to police, there is no gunshot victim.""Im now in correction mode and we apparently were wrong," Smith went on to say. "Unless theres new information that comes forward, all the information now points to there was a guy running down the street, gun fell in the street, gun went off, guy was taken into custody. He complained that he was injured or something. They put him in an ambulance and, out of an an abundance of caution, the police are now telling us, they took him to the hospital. Nobody has been shot. No police officer has pulled the trigger. And on behalf of Mike Tobin and the rest of our crew there and he rest of us at Fox News, I am very sorry for the error and glad we were able to correct it quickly."Smith's extensive apology did not prevent criticism of the network's reporting, including from Baltimore City Councilman Brandon Scott.On Monday afternoon, Scott accused Fox News of 'irresponsible' journalism. "I'm concerned that we have members of the media being irresponsible, Scott told CNN during an interview. "We have one news outlet, Fox News, saying they saw [the shooting] happen. When you do stuff like that, irresponsibly -- media organizations are supposed to report what they know, not what they think or what their emotions are."

You're wrong. Again. They haven't played any of that footage since it happened. It's as if the incident never existed.But once again you conveniently dodge talking about the real issues here, like the mob scene, the rush to judgment against the police, the impossible job they have right now, the out of control situation in the inner cities that's getting worse and worse by the day...

No, the "real" issue that has lead to all of the above is the out-of-control, above-the-law, shoot-first-and-lie-about-it-later, low-IQ, revenue-collecting, district-court-lying, dog-killing, wrong-house-SWAT-raiding, militarized, federalized government cops.

Your shtick has officially run out. Not that you were ever funny or relevant here, but just go away. You're terrible has reached a new high in awfulness on this forum.

I really hope you need law enforcement response someday and they never come. For you it would be par for the course, for me it would be one of the best stories ever written.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What a freaking joke. Check out this video of what happened in Baltimore today. The news networks aren't playing this tonight. Why?

Watch the first video of the black lady who is EMPHATIC that she saw the cops shoot a black man in the back. Actually, emphatic is probably an understatement. Tim - still believe all those black witnesses who swore that Michael Brown had his hands up and didn't charge the officer?

The second video shows what a ridiculous mob scene was going on. What an amazing job those cops did there not to panic. It's amazing they got out of there with their lives.

What a ####### circus this country has become.

http://gawker.com/witnesses-say-baltimore-police-shot-man-in-back-cops-d-1702088673

You really have an issue with hyperbole. Some of you guys have made this thread and this forum unreadable, the shark jumping the shark.

If that was your intention, great. But this isn't what the FFA was ever meant to be, there are WAY TOO MANY Shark Pool-esque posts in this thread. The overt racism and the categorical ignorance in here is mind-numbing, if this is a cross-section of America I am very sad. Not as clueless and desperate as Jack White fan, but definitely within the range of moronic.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

You're wrong. Again.

/thread

Seriously, shut it down.

 

[rockaction]

Somehow they charged the wrong people. A schoolteacher and a plumber are now getting calls from journalists and bail bondsmen because of a clerical error.

http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83459871/

 

[PinkydaPimp]

General Tso, there is no doubt that both the media and members of general public got that supposed shooting totally wrong today. A lot of people were irresponsible, and we're awfully lucky that nobody got hurt or killed in what could have been a repeat of last week or worse. Most of what you've written in your specific criticisms of today's events were spot on.

But that being said, you failed to look at the situation in it's larger context. Because the primary question is, why are people so willing to believe this stuff about the police? Why do African-Americans living in Baltimore regard the police with so much distrust and hostility?

I've never denied there wasn't a problem with police overuse of force. Read my first few posts in this thread. But what's so upsetting about Baltimore is that there's a LOT more going on that that. There's a whole segment of the population that feels completely disenfranchised right now, and it's my feeling that they are misdirecting their anger and frustration and focusing on the wrong root causes. It's tragic and sad and the results are entirely predictable. The cop are going to pull out and crime will skyrocket. And then the real fun begins when we start seeing the crips an the bloods filling in the void to bring "order" to the streets. I hope you liked the 70's Tim because we're headed right back there. Better dust off your roller skates and platform shoes.

Just because you reject the root causes, doesn't mean they aren't the root causes. Whats sad to me is that people like you just don't get it (or more likely refuse to admit it). And if people like you cant get it, it makes it harder to fix.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

An Atlas of Upward Mobility Shows Paths Out of Poverty

The main innovation of the new paper — part of the Equality of Opportunity Project, involving multiple researchers — is its focus on children who moved. Doing so allows the economists to ask whether the places themselves actually affect outcomes. The alternative is that, say, Baltimore happens to be home to a large number of children who would struggle no matter where they grew up.

The data suggests otherwise. The easiest way to understand the pattern may be the different effects on siblings, who have so much in common. Younger siblings who moved from a bad area to a better one earned more as adults than their older siblings who were part of the same move. The particular environment of a city really does seem to affect its residents.

The data does not answer the question of whether the factors that distinguish higher-mobility places, like better schools and less economic segregation, are causing the differences — or are themselves knock-on effects of other, underlying causes. “We still need clarity on that,” Mr. Grusky, the Stanford professor, said.

From her perspective, Ms. Hawkins, the Contra Costa resident, said that the mixing of people from different social classes did make a difference.

“It’s all spread out here,” she said. In her old home in San Leandro, Calif., entire neighborhoods had high unemployment and crime, which led some people who did have jobs to flee, causing a downward spiral. “You don’t want to put your kid in harm’s way. That’s just extra stress.”

For all the benefits that moves can bring, they are not a solution to poverty, said people who have seen the new paper as well as the researchers themselves. Finding ways to improve those neighborhoods, for people who cannot or do not want to move, is also important, researchers and policy makers said.

“We can’t walk away from them,” Mr. Castro, the housing secretary, said. “We need a two-pronged approach.”

I think the bolded is key and also will help with race relations/bias as well.

 

[Dr Oadi]

What a freaking joke. Check out this video of what happened in Baltimore today. The news networks aren't playing this tonight. Why?

Watch the first video of the black lady who is EMPHATIC that she saw the cops shoot a black man in the back. Actually, emphatic is probably an understatement. Tim - still believe all those black witnesses who swore that Michael Brown had his hands up and didn't charge the officer?

The second video shows what a ridiculous mob scene was going on. What an amazing job those cops did there not to panic. It's amazing they got out of there with their lives.

What a ####### circus this country has become.http://gawker.com/witnesses-say-baltimore-police-shot-man-in-back-cops-d-1702088673

You really have an issue with hyperbole. Some of you guys have made this thread and this forum unreadable, the shark jumping the shark. If that was your intention, great. But this isn't what the FFA was ever meant to be, there are WAY TOO MANY Shark Pool-esque posts in this thread. The overt racism and the categorical ignorance in here is mind-numbing, if this is a cross-section of America I am very sad. Not as clueless and desperate as Jack White fan, but definitely within the range of moronic.

wow. I thought the post was spot on on what actually happened. It may not fit what people want to see because we know everyday black men and arrested or killed for doing nothing at the hands of the racist cops. /thread cause that's all we need to know.

Yeah shut it down.

 

[Widbil83]

Somehow they charged the wrong people. A schoolteacher and a plumber are now getting calls from journalists and bail bondsmen because of a clerical error.

http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83459871/

Based on what Dershowitz and the legalguys have been saying this is going to be some disaster.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

"If he had not died, I think it is almost indisputable that what would have happened is he would have been processed in jail, he probably would have been set a bail that he couldn't afford, and he would have stayed in jail until he took a plea in order to get out of jail."

What's worse, Rocah suggested that this happens quite frequently. "The mere fact that the officers felt comfortable doing this speaks volumes," he said. "To make up a story in charging documents means you think you can get away with it, and that can only come from experience."

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What a freaking joke. Check out this video of what happened in Baltimore today. The news networks aren't playing this tonight. Why?

Watch the first video of the black lady who is EMPHATIC that she saw the cops shoot a black man in the back. Actually, emphatic is probably an understatement. Tim - still believe all those black witnesses who swore that Michael Brown had his hands up and didn't charge the officer?

The second video shows what a ridiculous mob scene was going on. What an amazing job those cops did there not to panic. It's amazing they got out of there with their lives.

What a ####### circus this country has become.http://gawker.com/witnesses-say-baltimore-police-shot-man-in-back-cops-d-1702088673

You really have an issue with hyperbole. Some of you guys have made this thread and this forum unreadable, the shark jumping the shark. If that was your intention, great. But this isn't what the FFA was ever meant to be, there are WAY TOO MANY Shark Pool-esque posts in this thread. The overt racism and the categorical ignorance in here is mind-numbing, if this is a cross-section of America I am very sad. Not as clueless and desperate as Jack White fan, but definitely within the range of moronic.

wow. I thought the post was spot on on what actually happened. It may not fit what people want to see because we know everyday black men and arrested or killed for doing nothing at the hands of the racist cops. /thread cause that's all we need to know.

Yeah shut it down.

Not even sure if what you've posted in the thread is shtick or not, but I just assumed you were mentally disabled and don't know any better. You can go ahead and #### in your own hat now if you like. 100% of your posts are useless.

 

[RCon]

I don't think you could be a Baltimore policeman now and have any sort of morale left. You've been vilified as a unit and when doing your job if anyone runs from you or God forbid were to draw some kind of weapon on you, you are in a no win situation. Someone drops a gun that goes off and all of a sudden there are reports police have shot someone in the back and another mob was ready to form. Now Joy Reid is interviewing a MD State Senator who went to the hospital to see the guy who was arrested and taken to the hospital. So now we've got state senate members going to check on people arrested for carrying guns that discharge on the street.

They are going to end up with exactly what they deserve.

Interesting response. A bit horrendous actually, IMO.

The vast majority of African-Americans living in the areas where the rioting took place did not participate in the riots. They were the people who cleaned up the mess over the next few days. They are the people who are generally law-abiding, but who suspect that Gray was wrongfully killed, and who want justice. So they protest peacefully, because they don't approve or participate in violence.

Tell me, what do these people deserve?

Maybe it's me, but I thought the "they" in jonessed's post was referring to the officers in the Gray case.

 

[The_Man]

This is why I thought the premise that all of the sudden people care about Baltimore is wrong.

A lot of people don't. To paraphrase Kevin Williamson, it's the radical left fighting the progressive left over the left's failed policies. Let them work it out. In the meantime, I'll stay far away and let it fester.

Really, most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugees.

Sadly I feel many of the same sentiments. Baltimore has elicited zero sympathy from me the past two weeks.

These two comments pretty much sum up this thread. Most of the people posting here couldn't care less about what's actually happening to the real people involved, it's just an opportunity to spout their particular brand of disdain. Their attention is focused on Baltimore for the short period of time it's the focal point, and then they'll be on to the next one.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

This is why I thought the premise that all of the sudden people care about Baltimore is wrong.

A lot of people don't. To paraphrase Kevin Williamson, it's the radical left fighting the progressive left over the left's failed policies. Let them work it out. In the meantime, I'll stay far away and let it fester.

Really, most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugees.

Sadly I feel many of the same sentiments. Baltimore has elicited zero sympathy from me the past two weeks.

These two comments pretty much sum up this thread. Most of the people posting here couldn't care less about what's actually happening to the real people involved, it's just an opportunity to spout their particular brand of disdain. Their attention is focused on Baltimore for the short period of time it's the focal point, and then they'll be on to the next one.

 

[rockaction]

This is why I thought the premise that all of the sudden people care about Baltimore is wrong.

A lot of people don't. To paraphrase Kevin Williamson, it's the radical left fighting the progressive left over the left's failed policies. Let them work it out. In the meantime, I'll stay far away and let it fester.

Really, most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugees.

Sadly I feel many of the same sentiments. Baltimore has elicited zero sympathy from me the past two weeks.

These two comments pretty much sum up this thread. Most of the people posting here couldn't care less about what's actually happening to the real people involved, it's just an opportunity to spout their particular brand of disdain. Their attention is focused on Baltimore for the short period of time it's the focal point, and then they'll be on to the next one.

A touch of hyperbole on my end, but yep. I care about the individual people, but I do not care about the entity that is Baltimore. I think I might have said that about four or five times. I simply don't trust any act of governance within it. Sometimes a situation deserves disdain before it deserves pity or soul searching. At some point, saying "no, I won't debate with those premises in place" is all one can do. And we see more of the same solutions being proffered by the left, more tendentiousness, more insistence on framing the terms of the debate, the same old accusations of racism when it comes to policy discussions, more incompetence, and more politics instead of justice.

I feel much less sympathy for Baltimore, as a city, than I would most other cities. My interest comes from the fact that I lived awfully close to Baltimore for five years and that its complete and utter failure as a city has prompted national debate. I didn't think one needed to care about Baltimore as a prerequisite for commenting on it.

 

[The_Man]

I don't begrudge anyone their right to say whatever they want. I just come at this thread from the totally opposite point of view from most of the posters.

Most of you don't care about Baltimore, you care about using what's happening here as a platform to voice your beliefs on a range of societal and political issues. It's an intellectual exercise, and your comments and level of engagement would be just the same if it were happening in Cleveland or Detroit or St. Louis or anywhere else.

I don't care about the philosophical debate, I care about what's going on in my city. I wouldn't be posting about any of this stuff if it weren't impacting me directly, on a daily basis.

However, I will say that I truly have a hard time understanding why people of all political ideologies can't get behind the idea that the Baltimore Police did something very wrong, and almost certainly criminal, in the case of Freddie Gray. He was a U.S. citizen walking down the street in his own neighborhood. He was not committing any crime. And yet he was still taken into custody by police anyway, a healthy, living free citizen at the time. He disappeared into the back of a Police van, and was essentially never seen alive again.

That isn't America. The people that did that to him have to be held accountable. If they aren't, then we live in a gulag state, an Orwellian nightmare. Right?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.

 

[rockaction]

I don't begrudge anyone their right to say whatever they want. I just come at this thread from the totally opposite point of view from most of the posters.

Most of you don't care about Baltimore, you care about using what's happening here as a platform to voice your beliefs on a range of societal and political issues. It's an intellectual exercise, and your comments and level of engagement would be just the same if it were happening in Cleveland or Detroit or St. Louis or anywhere else.

I don't care about the philosophical debate, I care about what's going on in my city. I wouldn't be posting about any of this stuff if it weren't impacting me directly, on a daily basis.

However, I will say that I truly have a hard time understanding why people of all political ideologies can't get behind the idea that the Baltimore Police did something very wrong, and almost certainly criminal, in the case of Freddie Gray. He was a U.S. citizen walking down the street in his own neighborhood. He was not committing any crime. And yet he was still taken into custody by police anyway, a healthy, living free citizen at the time. He disappeared into the back of a Police van, and was essentially never seen alive again.

That isn't America. The people that did that to him have to be held accountable. If they aren't, then we live in a gulag state, an Orwellian nightmare. Right?

First bolded: Personally, I wouldn't be vocal in the thread if I hadn't had many experiences in Baltimore. I spent a lot of free time and work time there over five years. The only thing I did in the Ferguson thread was complain that we could never know what happened and to argue for body cameras for the cops. I have very few posts in that thread that aren't related to that. I attempted no deeper political points nor dissection of the St. Louis government. Same with the Eric Garner thread. I said the cops were murderers but didn't get into the governance of New York City. Baltimore is different. Baltimore is so mismanaged, and so corrupt and violent, that there was an ongoing national discussion in the nineties simply because of how violent and drug-ridden it was. Nightlife was dangerous there. Everything was fairly dangerous in Baltimore. Hell, on a personal level, my car that got stolen when I lived in MD wound up there.

Second bolded: I think that overstates it a bit. I don't disagree that the situation is awfully suspicious, and that he likely died from some sort of police brutality. At the same time, I don't think anybody is going to get true justice out of this because of the utter dysfunction of the governance in Baltimore and the seemingly political motives behind the officers being charged. I don't like any of it. All of it strikes me as disingenuous and slightly totalitarian, from the original act up through to the charging.

 

[rockaction]

White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.

Nope. Totally inaccurate. Would care about Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, New Haven, CT (where I had lived for years), San Diego, CA (where I've lived and will live in the future), NYC, Boston -- basically any city I've spent time in, lived in, or been around.

Except for Baltimore. Sorry you don't like it and are resorting to racial claims (unsurprising again -- always with the personal and reductive observations about that which we don't know, like on Tso, and Oadi, and me...it's at least consistent) but Baltimore deserves Baltimore. That's on them, frankly.

eta* You can't possibly have read my response to come up with that claim. If you had, you'd note that I lived twenty-five minutes or so from B'More for five years, that I explicitly stated a comparison between Baltimore and other cities, etc. But why read? Why not just jump in and have at it?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.

Nope. Totally inaccurate. Would care about Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, New Haven, CT (where I had lived for years), San Diego, CA (where I've lived and will live in the future), NYC, Boston -- basically any city I've spent time in, lived in, or been around.

Except for Baltimore. Sorry you don't like it and are resorting to racial claims (unsurprising again -- always with the personal and reductive observations about that which we don't know, like on Tso, and Oadi, and me...it's at least consistent) but Baltimore deserves Baltimore. That's on them, frankly.

eta* You can't possibly have read my response to come up with that claim. If you had, you'd note that I lived twenty-five minutes or so from B'More for five years, that I explicitly stated a comparison between Baltimore and other cities, etc. But why read? Why not just jump in and have at it?

Link to that being addressed to you specifically?

I mean if the shoe fits, by all means wear it, but I wasn't addressing you. I can if you like though, I can easily lump you right on in. Let me know.

 

[timschochet]

I don't think you could be a Baltimore policeman now and have any sort of morale left. You've been vilified as a unit and when doing your job if anyone runs from you or God forbid were to draw some kind of weapon on you, you are in a no win situation. Someone drops a gun that goes off and all of a sudden there are reports police have shot someone in the back and another mob was ready to form. Now Joy Reid is interviewing a MD State Senator who went to the hospital to see the guy who was arrested and taken to the hospital. So now we've got state senate members going to check on people arrested for carrying guns that discharge on the street.

They are going to end up with exactly what they deserve.

Interesting response. A bit horrendous actually, IMO.The vast majority of African-Americans living in the areas where the rioting took place did not participate in the riots. They were the people who cleaned up the mess over the next few days. They are the people who are generally law-abiding, but who suspect that Gray was wrongfully killed, and who want justice. So they protest peacefully, because they don't approve or participate in violence.

Tell me, what do these people deserve?

Maybe it's me, but I thought the "they" in jonessed's post was referring to the officers in the Gray case.

if that's the case I apologize. But I assumed, based on the post before his, he was referring to the Baltimorr communities where the riots took place, who will now struggle to hire police.

 

[TheIronSheik]

White people are the best scapegoats, mainly because half of them will agree with you if you blame them for something.

Like traffic this morning. Thanks a lot, you pastie jerkholes.

 

[TobiasFunke]

White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.

Nope. Totally inaccurate. Would care about Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, New Haven, CT (where I had lived for years), San Diego, CA (where I've lived and will live in the future), NYC, Boston -- basically any city I've spent time in, lived in, or been around.

Except for Baltimore. Sorry you don't like it and are resorting to racial claims (unsurprising again -- always with the personal and reductive observations about that which we don't know, like on Tso, and Oadi, and me...it's at least consistent) but Baltimore deserves Baltimore. That's on them, frankly.

eta* You can't possibly have read my response to come up with that claim. If you had, you'd note that I lived twenty-five minutes or so from B'More for five years, that I explicitly stated a comparison between Baltimore and other cities, etc. But why read? Why not just jump in and have at it?

The idea that the bolded gives you any sort of informed perspective is absurd. You lived in the Maryland suburbs for a while (you don't say when) and your car got stolen and ended up in Baltimore and that makes you David ####ing Simon? Come on.

I've lived 40 minutes from Baltimore for 32 of my 41 years, visited a hundred times at least, interviewed for jobs there, and I meet and talk to people from Baltimore constantly. And I don't pretend to have the slightest clue about what makes the city tick. Either you're a Baltimorean or you're not. You and I are not.

 

[rockaction]

White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.

Nope. Totally inaccurate. Would care about Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, New Haven, CT (where I had lived for years), San Diego, CA (where I've lived and will live in the future), NYC, Boston -- basically any city I've spent time in, lived in, or been around.

Except for Baltimore. Sorry you don't like it and are resorting to racial claims (unsurprising again -- always with the personal and reductive observations about that which we don't know, like on Tso, and Oadi, and me...it's at least consistent) but Baltimore deserves Baltimore. That's on them, frankly.

eta* You can't possibly have read my response to come up with that claim. If you had, you'd note that I lived twenty-five minutes or so from B'More for five years, that I explicitly stated a comparison between Baltimore and other cities, etc. But why read? Why not just jump in and have at it?

Link to that being addressed to you specifically?

I mean if the shoe fits, by all means wear it, but I wasn't addressing you. I can if you like though, I can easily lump you right on in. Let me know.

I assumed since it was right in the middle of a sort of dialogue about me not caring about the city of Baltimore, and that it was a singular "White American," then yes, we can probably assume, though perhaps "White American" was antonomasia.

If so, then carry on. Shoe doesn't fit, really.

 

[General Tso]

What a freaking joke. Check out this video of what happened in Baltimore today. The news networks aren't playing this tonight. Why?

Watch the first video of the black lady who is EMPHATIC that she saw the cops shoot a black man in the back. Actually, emphatic is probably an understatement. Tim - still believe all those black witnesses who swore that Michael Brown had his hands up and didn't charge the officer?

The second video shows what a ridiculous mob scene was going on. What an amazing job those cops did there not to panic. It's amazing they got out of there with their lives.

What a ####### circus this country has become.

http://gawker.com/witnesses-say-baltimore-police-shot-man-in-back-cops-d-1702088673

You really have an issue with hyperbole. Some of you guys have made this thread and this forum unreadable, the shark jumping the shark. If that was your intention, great. But this isn't what the FFA was ever meant to be, there are WAY TOO MANY Shark Pool-esque posts in this thread. The overt racism and the categorical ignorance in here is mind-numbing, if this is a cross-section of America I am very sad. Not as clueless and desperate as Jack White fan, but definitely within the range of moronic.

How high is the ladder you need to get on that horse DD? I mean really - you are engaging in the same, if not higher level of the hyperbole and personal attacks that you are railing against. And what about my post was racist? I specifically put it in the context of the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, as a partial explanation to Tim and others who put so much stock in that during The Michael Brown case.

 

[MattFancy]

White people are the best scapegoats, mainly because half of them will agree with you if you blame them for something.

Like traffic this morning. Thanks a lot, you pastie jerkholes.

I thought Asians were the source of all traffic?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I was responding tongue in cheek to The_Man's response.

I've been fighting the Detroit battle since I've been alive, of course people don't care about it. IMO we gave up on our inner cities 40+ years ago and now expect them to somehow retain their functionality.

 

[TheIronSheik]

White people are the best scapegoats, mainly because half of them will agree with you if you blame them for something.

Like traffic this morning. Thanks a lot, you pastie jerkholes.

I thought Asians were the source of all traffic?

When in doubt, blame Whitie.

 

[rockaction]

White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.

Nope. Totally inaccurate. Would care about Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, New Haven, CT (where I had lived for years), San Diego, CA (where I've lived and will live in the future), NYC, Boston -- basically any city I've spent time in, lived in, or been around.

Except for Baltimore. Sorry you don't like it and are resorting to racial claims (unsurprising again -- always with the personal and reductive observations about that which we don't know, like on Tso, and Oadi, and me...it's at least consistent) but Baltimore deserves Baltimore. That's on them, frankly.

eta* You can't possibly have read my response to come up with that claim. If you had, you'd note that I lived twenty-five minutes or so from B'More for five years, that I explicitly stated a comparison between Baltimore and other cities, etc. But why read? Why not just jump in and have at it?

The idea that the bolded gives you any sort of informed perspective is absurd. You lived in the Maryland suburbs for a while (you don't say when) and your car got stolen and ended up in Baltimore and that makes you David ####ing Simon? Come on.

I've lived 40 minutes from Baltimore for 32 of my 41 years, visited a hundred times at least, interviewed for jobs there, and I meet and talk to people from Baltimore constantly. And I don't pretend to have the slightest clue about what makes the city tick. Either you're a Baltimorean or you're not. You and I are not.

'97-'01. I never claimed to be a Baltimorean, but I spent a damn lot of time working and being around the city. I wasn't claiming to have any special insight into what makes it tick. I never said that, nor implied it. I was simply stating that that is why I'd be in this thread and comment about its politics more than in other threads like it.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

What a freaking joke. Check out this video of what happened in Baltimore today. The news networks aren't playing this tonight. Why?

Watch the first video of the black lady who is EMPHATIC that she saw the cops shoot a black man in the back. Actually, emphatic is probably an understatement. Tim - still believe all those black witnesses who swore that Michael Brown had his hands up and didn't charge the officer?

The second video shows what a ridiculous mob scene was going on. What an amazing job those cops did there not to panic. It's amazing they got out of there with their lives.

What a ####### circus this country has become.

http://gawker.com/witnesses-say-baltimore-police-shot-man-in-back-cops-d-1702088673

You really have an issue with hyperbole. Some of you guys have made this thread and this forum unreadable, the shark jumping the shark. If that was your intention, great. But this isn't what the FFA was ever meant to be, there are WAY TOO MANY Shark Pool-esque posts in this thread. The overt racism and the categorical ignorance in here is mind-numbing, if this is a cross-section of America I am very sad. Not as clueless and desperate as Jack White fan, but definitely within the range of moronic.

How high is the ladder you need to get on that horse DD? I mean really - you are engaging in the same, if not higher level of the hyperbole and personal attacks that you are railing against. And what about my post was racist? I specifically put it in the context of the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, as a partial explanation to Tim and others who put so much stock in that during The Michael Brown case.

Not sure but after spending the past 4 days in Baltimore, my view is a lot better than yours.

You guys can continue on all you want, but this conversation died days ago. This thread and this forum are dying with it. I'm disgusted by posters like Jack White and the shtick of Dr Oadi among others, you guys are just circle jerking at this point.

 

[General Tso]

This is why I thought the premise that all of the sudden people care about Baltimore is wrong.

A lot of people don't. To paraphrase Kevin Williamson, it's the radical left fighting the progressive left over the left's failed policies. Let them work it out. In the meantime, I'll stay far away and let it fester.

Really, most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugees.

Sadly I feel many of the same sentiments. Baltimore has elicited zero sympathy from me the past two weeks.

These two comments pretty much sum up this thread. Most of the people posting here couldn't care less about what's actually happening to the real people involved, it's just an opportunity to spout their particular brand of disdain. Their attention is focused on Baltimore for the short period of time it's the focal point, and then they'll be on to the next one.

See that one I actually deserved. I was out of line with my insinuation yesterday that people in here have no sympathy for the officer killed in NY, so touchee.I'll echo what Rock said. I absolutely care about the people involved. But the city (and by city I mean it's government and institutions) is an absolute trainwreck of failed Liberal policies.

 

[timschochet]

What a freaking joke. Check out this video of what happened in Baltimore today. The news networks aren't playing this tonight. Why?

Watch the first video of the black lady who is EMPHATIC that she saw the cops shoot a black man in the back. Actually, emphatic is probably an understatement. Tim - still believe all those black witnesses who swore that Michael Brown had his hands up and didn't charge the officer?

The second video shows what a ridiculous mob scene was going on. What an amazing job those cops did there not to panic. It's amazing they got out of there with their lives.

What a ####### circus this country has become.

http://gawker.com/witnesses-say-baltimore-police-shot-man-in-back-cops-d-1702088673

You really have an issue with hyperbole. Some of you guys have made this thread and this forum unreadable, the shark jumping the shark. If that was your intention, great. But this isn't what the FFA was ever meant to be, there are WAY TOO MANY Shark Pool-esque posts in this thread. The overt racism and the categorical ignorance in here is mind-numbing, if this is a cross-section of America I am very sad. Not as clueless and desperate as Jack White fan, but definitely within the range of moronic.

How high is the ladder you need to get on that horse DD? I mean really - you are engaging in the same, if not higher level of the hyperbole and personal attacks that you are railing against. And what about my post was racist? I specifically put it in the context of the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, as a partial explanation to Tim and others who put so much stock in that during The Michael Brown case.

actually it was those who believed that Wilson was innocent who put stock in eyewitnesses. I put stock in reason and common sense, which told me (and still does) that Michael Brown, after running away, would not turn around and charge at an armed officer.

 

[dutch]

rocknation, I am blown away at the difference in experience that I had living in Baltimore and the experience you had living close to Baltimore.

I lived in the Bolton Hill area which is near MICAT and only a few blocks from where ground zero for the riots were. I frequented the slop shops and pawn shop that are on Pennsylvania and even had occasion to walk to the liquor store right across the street from the CVS that burned down. The only issue I had living downtown was having my car broken into a couple of times. That sucked but that is part of inner city living in just about any urban area.

I will say that if you know which areas are the "bad" areas and stay out of them at night then there really aren't too many problems living there. My wife and I went out all the time to Fells Point, Canton, and Charles St. and often stayed out 'til sunrise and never ran into issues with crime.

As for the folks that live in the "bad" areas, yeah, it has to be a b!tch to grow up in the slums and I often thought But for the grace of god when walking through there. I can understand how those folks can get caught up in a different life and know that it must be a difficult climb to get out of there.

Overall, your impression of Baltimore is a fuzzy one at best and is definitely incomplete and lacking in clarity of an overall big picture sense. You come across as someone whose impression is derived mainly from what you watch on the news and not from having lived a fuller experience in the city. Next time your 25 minutes away, shoot me a PM and I'll point to you to some good places to visit, eat, and dance, if you are interested.

 

[General Tso]

What a freaking joke. Check out this video of what happened in Baltimore today. The news networks aren't playing this tonight. Why?

Watch the first video of the black lady who is EMPHATIC that she saw the cops shoot a black man in the back. Actually, emphatic is probably an understatement. Tim - still believe all those black witnesses who swore that Michael Brown had his hands up and didn't charge the officer?

The second video shows what a ridiculous mob scene was going on. What an amazing job those cops did there not to panic. It's amazing they got out of there with their lives.

What a ####### circus this country has become.

http://gawker.com/witnesses-say-baltimore-police-shot-man-in-back-cops-d-1702088673

You really have an issue with hyperbole. Some of you guys have made this thread and this forum unreadable, the shark jumping the shark. If that was your intention, great. But this isn't what the FFA was ever meant to be, there are WAY TOO MANY Shark Pool-esque posts in this thread. The overt racism and the categorical ignorance in here is mind-numbing, if this is a cross-section of America I am very sad. Not as clueless and desperate as Jack White fan, but definitely within the range of moronic.

How high is the ladder you need to get on that horse DD? I mean really - you are engaging in the same, if not higher level of the hyperbole and personal attacks that you are railing against. And what about my post was racist? I specifically put it in the context of the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, as a partial explanation to Tim and others who put so much stock in that during The Michael Brown case.

Not sure but after spending the past 4 days in Baltimore, my view is a lot better than yours. You guys can continue on all you want, but this conversation died days ago. This thread and this forum are dying with it. I'm disgusted by posters like Jack White and the shtick of Dr Oadi among others, you guys are just circle jerking at this point.

It's over because you say it is? Yeah, we hit s bump in the road and people are on full tilt, but that #### does happen in here from time to time. It's s very emotional subject. People don't like seeing their country being ripped apart at the scenes.And I like many others in here would very much like to hear about your experiences there. Maybe it can help get the discussion back on track.

 

[TobiasFunke]

White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.

Nope. Totally inaccurate. Would care about Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, New Haven, CT (where I had lived for years), San Diego, CA (where I've lived and will live in the future), NYC, Boston -- basically any city I've spent time in, lived in, or been around.

Except for Baltimore. Sorry you don't like it and are resorting to racial claims (unsurprising again -- always with the personal and reductive observations about that which we don't know, like on Tso, and Oadi, and me...it's at least consistent) but Baltimore deserves Baltimore. That's on them, frankly.

eta* You can't possibly have read my response to come up with that claim. If you had, you'd note that I lived twenty-five minutes or so from B'More for five years, that I explicitly stated a comparison between Baltimore and other cities, etc. But why read? Why not just jump in and have at it?

The idea that the bolded gives you any sort of informed perspective is absurd. You lived in the Maryland suburbs for a while (you don't say when) and your car got stolen and ended up in Baltimore and that makes you David ####ing Simon? Come on.

I've lived 40 minutes from Baltimore for 32 of my 41 years, visited a hundred times at least, interviewed for jobs there, and I meet and talk to people from Baltimore constantly. And I don't pretend to have the slightest clue about what makes the city tick. Either you're a Baltimorean or you're not. You and I are not.

'97-'01. I never claimed to be a Baltimorean, but I spent a damn lot of time working and being around the city. I wasn't claiming to have any special insight into what makes it tick. I never said that, nor implied it. I was simply stating that that is why I'd be in this thread and comment about its politics more than in other threads like it.

You left the city (or more accurately, the Maryland suburbs many miles from the city) 14 years ago. No city in America looks remotely the same as it did 14 years ago.

And you certainly seemed to be claiming to have special insight into what makes it tick by speaking with authority about its politics and governance and how unsafe it is, and claiming that it deserves what it gets. Frankly, if you weren't that's even more disturbing- why would you say such terrible, spiteful things about a city you actually don't know very much about?

 

[timschochet]

I've never been to Baltimore. But I care about the people involved AND the city as well. I don't see how you can separate one from the other.

I think most people in this country, no matter what their politics may be, are well meaning and generally try their honest best to do what's right, even though they often screw up.

 

[RCon]

The thread was good for a short while there. Now it's terrible again.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

The thread was good for a short while there. Now it's terrible again.

Sounds like Baltimore

 

[timschochet]

In my own area of Sputhetn California, I have visited the inner cities here (Watts, South Central, parts of East Los Angeles) dozens of times, perhaps hundreds of times. I've spent a lot of time there leasing businesses, eating at restaurants. I've seen some shocking incidents.

But I dont "KNOW" any of these areas. You can't really know unless you live there 24/7.