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Baltimore: The Next Ferguson? (2 Viewers)

White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.
Nope. Totally inaccurate. Would care about Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, New Haven, CT (where I had lived for years), San Diego, CA (where I've lived and will live in the future), NYC, Boston -- basically any city I've spent time in, lived in, or been around.

Except for Baltimore. Sorry you don't like it and are resorting to racial claims (unsurprising again -- always with the personal and reductive observations about that which we don't know, like on Tso, and Oadi, and me...it's at least consistent) but Baltimore deserves Baltimore. That's on them, frankly.

eta* You can't possibly have read my response to come up with that claim. If you had, you'd note that I lived twenty-five minutes or so from B'More for five years, that I explicitly stated a comparison between Baltimore and other cities, etc. But why read? Why not just jump in and have at it?
:lmao:

The idea that the bolded gives you any sort of informed perspective is absurd. You lived in the Maryland suburbs for a while (you don't say when) and your car got stolen and ended up in Baltimore and that makes you David ####ing Simon? Come on.

I've lived 40 minutes from Baltimore for 32 of my 41 years, visited a hundred times at least, interviewed for jobs there, and I meet and talk to people from Baltimore constantly. And I don't pretend to have the slightest clue about what makes the city tick. Either you're a Baltimorean or you're not. You and I are not.
'97-'01. I never claimed to be a Baltimorean, but I spent a damn lot of time working and being around the city. I wasn't claiming to have any special insight into what makes it tick. I never said that, nor implied it. I was simply stating that that is why I'd be in this thread and comment about its politics more than in other threads like it.
You left the city (or more accurately, the Maryland suburbs many miles from the city) 14 years ago. No city in America looks remotely the same as it did 14 years ago.

And you certainly seemed to be claiming to have special insight into what makes it tick by speaking with authority about its politics and governance and how unsafe it is, and claiming that it deserves what it gets. Frankly, if you weren't that's even more disturbing- why would you say such terrible, spiteful things about a city you actually don't know very much about?
Oh, I think I know it better than most, I'm just not saying I know what makes it tick. I think anybody with a pulse can comment about its politics, governance, and safety. You don't need to know the inner machinations of City Hall to comment on that.

 
What a freaking joke. Check out this video of what happened in Baltimore today. The news networks aren't playing this tonight. Why?

Watch the first video of the black lady who is EMPHATIC that she saw the cops shoot a black man in the back. Actually, emphatic is probably an understatement. Tim - still believe all those black witnesses who swore that Michael Brown had his hands up and didn't charge the officer?

The second video shows what a ridiculous mob scene was going on. What an amazing job those cops did there not to panic. It's amazing they got out of there with their lives.

What a ####### circus this country has become.

http://gawker.com/witnesses-say-baltimore-police-shot-man-in-back-cops-d-1702088673
You really have an issue with hyperbole. Some of you guys have made this thread and this forum unreadable, the shark jumping the shark. If that was your intention, great. But this isn't what the FFA was ever meant to be, there are WAY TOO MANY Shark Pool-esque posts in this thread. The overt racism and the categorical ignorance in here is mind-numbing, if this is a cross-section of America I am very sad. Not as clueless and desperate as Jack White fan, but definitely within the range of moronic.
How high is the ladder you need to get on that horse DD? I mean really - you are engaging in the same, if not higher level of the hyperbole and personal attacks that you are railing against. And what about my post was racist? I specifically put it in the context of the unreliability of eyewitness testimony, as a partial explanation to Tim and others who put so much stock in that during The Michael Brown case.
Not sure but after spending the past 4 days in Baltimore, my view is a lot better than yours. You guys can continue on all you want, but this conversation died days ago. This thread and this forum are dying with it. I'm disgusted by posters like Jack White and the shtick of Dr Oadi among others, you guys are just circle jerking at this point.
It's over because you say it is? Yeah, we hit s bump in the road and people are on full tilt, but that #### does happen in here from time to time. It's s very emotional subject.
Nah, just over for me. Carry on.

 
White American doesn't care about inner cities in America? Shocking development.
Nope. Totally inaccurate. Would care about Springfield, MA, Hartford, CT, New Haven, CT (where I had lived for years), San Diego, CA (where I've lived and will live in the future), NYC, Boston -- basically any city I've spent time in, lived in, or been around.

Except for Baltimore. Sorry you don't like it and are resorting to racial claims (unsurprising again -- always with the personal and reductive observations about that which we don't know, like on Tso, and Oadi, and me...it's at least consistent) but Baltimore deserves Baltimore. That's on them, frankly.

eta* You can't possibly have read my response to come up with that claim. If you had, you'd note that I lived twenty-five minutes or so from B'More for five years, that I explicitly stated a comparison between Baltimore and other cities, etc. But why read? Why not just jump in and have at it?
:lmao:

The idea that the bolded gives you any sort of informed perspective is absurd. You lived in the Maryland suburbs for a while (you don't say when) and your car got stolen and ended up in Baltimore and that makes you David ####ing Simon? Come on.

I've lived 40 minutes from Baltimore for 32 of my 41 years, visited a hundred times at least, interviewed for jobs there, and I meet and talk to people from Baltimore constantly. And I don't pretend to have the slightest clue about what makes the city tick. Either you're a Baltimorean or you're not. You and I are not.
'97-'01. I never claimed to be a Baltimorean, but I spent a damn lot of time working and being around the city. I wasn't claiming to have any special insight into what makes it tick. I never said that, nor implied it. I was simply stating that that is why I'd be in this thread and comment about its politics more than in other threads like it.
You left the city (or more accurately, the Maryland suburbs many miles from the city) 14 years ago. No city in America looks remotely the same as it did 14 years ago.

And you certainly seemed to be claiming to have special insight into what makes it tick by speaking with authority about its politics and governance and how unsafe it is, and claiming that it deserves what it gets. Frankly, if you weren't that's even more disturbing- why would you say such terrible, spiteful things about a city you actually don't know very much about?
Oh, I think I know it better than most, I'm just not saying I know what makes it tick. I think anybody with a pulse can comment about its politics, governance, and safety. You don't need to know the inner machinations of City Hall to comment on that.
That is true. Any person with a pulse, even those with virtually no insight to offer, can comment on a city's politics, governance and safety. Glad we both agree on that. We'll just have to agree to disagree as to the value of those opinions I guess.

 
Retired LAPD Sgt. Cheryl Dorsey: Anybody familiar with her book>>>>>Black & Blue (The Creation of a Manifesto): The True Story of an African-American Woman on the LAPD and the Powerful Secrets She Uncovered (Volume 1) Paperback – July 13, 2013 >>>> Saw her on CNN this morning discussing the recent events, police violence etc. she came across as one of the most sensible voices I have heard on this subject.

 
So #####y. :lmao: Did you roll your eyes and blow the bangs away from your face in disgust when you typed that?
This is exactly what I would expect you to post rather than defending your miserable uninformed attacks on an entire city and its people from legitimate criticism.
I've been defending it all thread. I'm not rehashing my positions. They're there. You can find them.

eta* Also, all you've been doing this page is attacking my personal involvement with Baltimore. You haven't once addressed a policy concern of mine in the past three or four days. I think you're the miserable one on tilt here.

 
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So #####y. :lmao: Did you roll your eyes and blow the bangs away from your face in disgust when you typed that?
This is exactly what I would expect you to post rather than defending your miserable uninformed attacks on an entire city and its people from legitimate criticism.
I've been defending it all thread. I'm not rehashing my positions. They're there. You can find them.

eta* Also, all you've been doing this page is attacking my personal involvement with Baltimore. You haven't once addressed a policy concern of mine in the past three or four days. I think you're the miserable one on tilt here.
I'm not under obligation to address your policy concerns. I logged on this morning and saw that you said that "most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugee." You then claimed that this wasn't just the empty spiteful ranting of a mad man and that you "wouldn't be vocal in the thread if I hadn't had many experiences in Baltimore" which qualified you to assert that the city is "mismanaged, and so corrupt and violent."

Those are your words. You presented yourself having particular insight into and knowledge of Baltimore. I doubted it, and said so. It turned out I was right to do so, as you haven't lived in the area in 15 years and didn't even live that close to it when you were in the area. If you want to claim that makes me the "miserable one on tilt" as compared to the guy who said he wouldn't care at all if the city burned and then claimed his position was informed based on personal experience he didn't actually have, so be it.

 
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Another guy that pleaded for the riots to stop while speaking out of both corners of his mouth.

Civic-Minded Man of the Week:

Baltimore-raised Carmelo Anthony returned to call for peace, telling CNN: “This is one Baltimore, man. Now is the time to rebuild this city back up. There’s no need to tear it down.”

This was Anthony’s second public service message on behalf of the citizenry of Baltimore. He previously appeared in a video as a smiling consort and special cameo appearance guest of gang leader and drug dealer Ronnie “Skinny Suge” Thomas, now doing 20 years in prison.

Skinny placed Anthony in his production of “Stop Snitching,” which threatened teens and their families with serious recriminations if they cooperated with Baltimore police to rid crime. The video was distributed to junior high and high school kids.

According to the Baltimore Sun, the recording “flouted authority with obscene anti-police rants showing ‘corner boys’ taunting police and waving guns — practically daring officers to confront them.”
The Stop Snitching video came out 11 years ago when Carmelo was a 20 year old kid. Doesn't excuse his behavior, but suggesting he's talking out both sides of his mouth is a bit disingenuous.

 
So #####y. :lmao: Did you roll your eyes and blow the bangs away from your face in disgust when you typed that?
This is exactly what I would expect you to post rather than defending your miserable uninformed attacks on an entire city and its people from legitimate criticism.
I've been defending it all thread. I'm not rehashing my positions. They're there. You can find them.

eta* Also, all you've been doing this page is attacking my personal involvement with Baltimore. You haven't once addressed a policy concern of mine in the past three or four days. I think you're the miserable one on tilt here.
I'm not under obligation to address your policy concerns. I logged on this morning and saw that you said that "most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugee." You then claimed that this wasn't just the empty spiteful ranting of a mad man and that you "wouldn't be vocal in the thread if I hadn't had many experiences in Baltimore" which qualified you to assert that the city is "mismanaged, and so corrupt and violent."

Those are your words. You presented yourself having particular insight into and knowledge of Baltimore. I doubted it, and said so. It turned out I was right to do so, as you haven't lived in the area in 15 years and didn't even live that close to it when you were in the area. If you want to claim that makes me the "miserable one on tilt" as compared to the guy who just said he wouldn't care at all if the city burned, so be it.
That wasn't the implication at all, and those words are broken up by a lot of bad assumptions. You're breaking up quotes and adding your own stuff into them. I never said living there qualified me, though I do indeed feel very qualified to comment. You're the one who jumped all over me about living there -- I was stating that's why I was interested in Baltimore, and you kept going on about it.

You're seriously misrepresenting my posts, which is the sign of somebody who isn't reading carefully, is pissed off that somebody holds a different view, and can't really handle that either intellectually or emotionally.

eta* And you are indeed under no obligation to address my policy concerns, or even read them. So calling them "miserable" and "uninformed" will carry the exact weight that it deserves, also.

 
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Another guy that pleaded for the riots to stop while speaking out of both corners of his mouth.

Civic-Minded Man of the Week:

Baltimore-raised Carmelo Anthony returned to call for peace, telling CNN: “This is one Baltimore, man. Now is the time to rebuild this city back up. There’s no need to tear it down.”

This was Anthony’s second public service message on behalf of the citizenry of Baltimore. He previously appeared in a video as a smiling consort and special cameo appearance guest of gang leader and drug dealer Ronnie “Skinny Suge” Thomas, now doing 20 years in prison.

Skinny placed Anthony in his production of “Stop Snitching,” which threatened teens and their families with serious recriminations if they cooperated with Baltimore police to rid crime. The video was distributed to junior high and high school kids.

According to the Baltimore Sun, the recording “flouted authority with obscene anti-police rants showing ‘corner boys’ taunting police and waving guns — practically daring officers to confront them.”
The Stop Snitching video came out 11 years ago when Carmelo was a 20 year old kid. Doesn't excuse his behavior, but suggesting he's talking out both sides of his mouth is a bit disingenuous.
I guess time elapsed is room for growth. I don't think I was being disingenuous, probably just not allotting for time elapsed or misusing the phrase about speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Perhaps, if we are generous, we can chalk it up to a youthful indiscretion. I'm just pointing out that there were a bunch of people who agitated against institutions who were then calling for peace once the riots were on. Some pundits remained consistent in their advocation of violence, others called for peace. It just seems like those that called for peace were less reflective about their own roles in sowing seeds of discontent. That would be my larger point.

That came from Mushnick over at the NY Post.

 
An Atlas of Upward Mobility Shows Paths Out of Poverty

The main innovation of the new paper — part of the Equality of Opportunity Project, involving multiple researchers — is its focus on children who moved. Doing so allows the economists to ask whether the places themselves actually affect outcomes. The alternative is that, say, Baltimore happens to be home to a large number of children who would struggle no matter where they grew up.

The data suggests otherwise. The easiest way to understand the pattern may be the different effects on siblings, who have so much in common. Younger siblings who moved from a bad area to a better one earned more as adults than their older siblings who were part of the same move. The particular environment of a city really does seem to affect its residents.

The data does not answer the question of whether the factors that distinguish higher-mobility places, like better schools and less economic segregation, are causing the differences — or are themselves knock-on effects of other, underlying causes. “We still need clarity on that,” Mr. Grusky, the Stanford professor, said.

From her perspective, Ms. Hawkins, the Contra Costa resident, said that the mixing of people from different social classes did make a difference.

“It’s all spread out here,” she said. In her old home in San Leandro, Calif., entire neighborhoods had high unemployment and crime, which led some people who did have jobs to flee, causing a downward spiral. “You don’t want to put your kid in harm’s way. That’s just extra stress.”

For all the benefits that moves can bring, they are not a solution to poverty, said people who have seen the new paper as well as the researchers themselves. Finding ways to improve those neighborhoods, for people who cannot or do not want to move, is also important, researchers and policy makers said.

“We can’t walk away from them,” Mr. Castro, the housing secretary, said. “We need a two-pronged approach.”
I think the bolded is key and also will help with race relations/bias as well.
I don't think that anyone can deny most of these points- I feel awful for the children who grow up in the slums, it's a vortex where they have little to no chance to succeed. The question is, what do we do about it? Is forced integration the answer?

 
Baltimore's worst > rockaction
Arsonists, murderers, thieves, property damagers, etc.

The left has completely blown a gasket today on the board. It's angry, and the mask slips. I've simply stated that I don't care about the city, that its problems are of its own creation, and that the policies over the past fifty years have come from the left. Perhaps the utter husk of a failed city is why the left is so upset about these simple declarations.

 
So #####y. :lmao: Did you roll your eyes and blow the bangs away from your face in disgust when you typed that?
This is exactly what I would expect you to post rather than defending your miserable uninformed attacks on an entire city and its people from legitimate criticism.
I've been defending it all thread. I'm not rehashing my positions. They're there. You can find them.

eta* Also, all you've been doing this page is attacking my personal involvement with Baltimore. You haven't once addressed a policy concern of mine in the past three or four days. I think you're the miserable one on tilt here.
I'm not under obligation to address your policy concerns. I logged on this morning and saw that you said that "most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugee." You then claimed that this wasn't just the empty spiteful ranting of a mad man and that you "wouldn't be vocal in the thread if I hadn't had many experiences in Baltimore" which qualified you to assert that the city is "mismanaged, and so corrupt and violent."

Those are your words. You presented yourself having particular insight into and knowledge of Baltimore. I doubted it, and said so. It turned out I was right to do so, as you haven't lived in the area in 15 years and didn't even live that close to it when you were in the area. If you want to claim that makes me the "miserable one on tilt" as compared to the guy who just said he wouldn't care at all if the city burned, so be it.
That wasn't the implication at all, and those words are broken up by a lot of bad assumptions. You're breaking up quotes and adding your own stuff into them. I never said living there qualified me, though I do indeed feel very qualified to comment. You're the one who jumped all over me about living there -- I was stating that's why I was interested in Baltimore, and you kept going on about it.

You're seriously misrepresenting my posts, which is the sign of somebody who isn't reading carefully, is pissed off that somebody holds a different view, and can't really handle that either intellectually or emotionally.
In this post you're clearly saying that it's your personal knowledge of Baltimore that qualifies you to claim that "Baltimore deserves Baltimore" and that you wish it ill based on your experiences there as compared to other places you've lived. And here you certainly seem to be suggesting that you personal experiences with Baltimore qualify you to speak with some expertise about its politics and management in a way that you did not with respect to St Louis and NY. If you want to pretend otherwise, so be it. A little weird to say such mean, horrible things about a city and its people without any particular insight into it, but it's hardly the first time a someone has said mean, horrible things without insight.

 
So #####y. :lmao: Did you roll your eyes and blow the bangs away from your face in disgust when you typed that?
This is exactly what I would expect you to post rather than defending your miserable uninformed attacks on an entire city and its people from legitimate criticism.
I've been defending it all thread. I'm not rehashing my positions. They're there. You can find them.

eta* Also, all you've been doing this page is attacking my personal involvement with Baltimore. You haven't once addressed a policy concern of mine in the past three or four days. I think you're the miserable one on tilt here.
I'm not under obligation to address your policy concerns. I logged on this morning and saw that you said that "most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugee." You then claimed that this wasn't just the empty spiteful ranting of a mad man and that you "wouldn't be vocal in the thread if I hadn't had many experiences in Baltimore" which qualified you to assert that the city is "mismanaged, and so corrupt and violent."

Those are your words. You presented yourself having particular insight into and knowledge of Baltimore. I doubted it, and said so. It turned out I was right to do so, as you haven't lived in the area in 15 years and didn't even live that close to it when you were in the area. If you want to claim that makes me the "miserable one on tilt" as compared to the guy who just said he wouldn't care at all if the city burned, so be it.
That wasn't the implication at all, and those words are broken up by a lot of bad assumptions. You're breaking up quotes and adding your own stuff into them. I never said living there qualified me, though I do indeed feel very qualified to comment. You're the one who jumped all over me about living there -- I was stating that's why I was interested in Baltimore, and you kept going on about it.

You're seriously misrepresenting my posts, which is the sign of somebody who isn't reading carefully, is pissed off that somebody holds a different view, and can't really handle that either intellectually or emotionally.
In this post you're clearly saying that it's your personal knowledge of Baltimore that qualifies you to claim that "Baltimore deserves Baltimore" and that you wish it ill based on your experiences there as compared to other places you've lived. And here you certainly seem to be suggesting that you personal experiences with Baltimore qualify you to speak with some expertise about its politics and management in a way that you did not with respect to St Louis and NY. If you want to pretend otherwise, so be it. A little weird to say such mean, horrible things about a city and its people without any particular insight into it, but it's hardly the first time a someone has said mean, horrible things without insight.
No, I'm saying I lived around it and that it sucked in comparison to other cities. Stick to the text. You're making assumptions.

eta* Also, I never wished it ill. You keep imputing things to me I didn't say. I don't care about Baltimore. I never said I hoped bad things happen to it. My whole "not caring" thing has been a response to all the tut-tutting from the left about "oh, now you care..." My response has been, "no, I really don't. Your premise is off." I never wished it ill -- ever. Your comprehension and clear anger towards my positions are causing you to lack reading comprehension and to impute things to me I'm not saying.

 
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Baltimore's worst > rockaction
Yet another useless, unprovoked personal attack. I had to go back and read the last few pages of this thread just to make sure I wasn't missing something. Rock and I have stayed on point pretty much this entire thread and refrained from the name calling, whether it be the overt crap like this from Apple Jack of the sanctimonious, passive aggressive attacks from DD. It's really pretty sad. I don't understand why we can't have differing opinions yet still respect each other. The model should be a guy like Tim. I disagree with him on virtually everything but he focuses on the issues and never makes it personal. /rant.
 
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So #####y. :lmao: Did you roll your eyes and blow the bangs away from your face in disgust when you typed that?
This is exactly what I would expect you to post rather than defending your miserable uninformed attacks on an entire city and its people from legitimate criticism.
I've been defending it all thread. I'm not rehashing my positions. They're there. You can find them.

eta* Also, all you've been doing this page is attacking my personal involvement with Baltimore. You haven't once addressed a policy concern of mine in the past three or four days. I think you're the miserable one on tilt here.
I'm not under obligation to address your policy concerns. I logged on this morning and saw that you said that "most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugee." You then claimed that this wasn't just the empty spiteful ranting of a mad man and that you "wouldn't be vocal in the thread if I hadn't had many experiences in Baltimore" which qualified you to assert that the city is "mismanaged, and so corrupt and violent."

Those are your words. You presented yourself having particular insight into and knowledge of Baltimore. I doubted it, and said so. It turned out I was right to do so, as you haven't lived in the area in 15 years and didn't even live that close to it when you were in the area. If you want to claim that makes me the "miserable one on tilt" as compared to the guy who just said he wouldn't care at all if the city burned, so be it.
That wasn't the implication at all, and those words are broken up by a lot of bad assumptions. You're breaking up quotes and adding your own stuff into them. I never said living there qualified me, though I do indeed feel very qualified to comment. You're the one who jumped all over me about living there -- I was stating that's why I was interested in Baltimore, and you kept going on about it.

You're seriously misrepresenting my posts, which is the sign of somebody who isn't reading carefully, is pissed off that somebody holds a different view, and can't really handle that either intellectually or emotionally.
In this post you're clearly saying that it's your personal knowledge of Baltimore that qualifies you to claim that "Baltimore deserves Baltimore" and that you wish it ill based on your experiences there as compared to other places you've lived. And here you certainly seem to be suggesting that you personal experiences with Baltimore qualify you to speak with some expertise about its politics and management in a way that you did not with respect to St Louis and NY. If you want to pretend otherwise, so be it. A little weird to say such mean, horrible things about a city and its people without any particular insight into it, but it's hardly the first time a someone has said mean, horrible things without insight.
No, I'm saying I lived around it and that it sucked in comparison to other cities. Stick to the text. You're making assumptions.

eta* Also, I never wished it ill. You keep imputing things to me I didn't say. I don't care about Baltimore. I never said I hoped bad things happen to it. My whole "not caring" thing has been a response to all the tut-tutting from the left about "oh, now you care..." My response has been, "no, I really don't. Your premise is off." I never wished it ill -- ever. Your comprehension and clear anger towards my positions are causing you to lack reading comprehension and to impute things to me I'm not saying.
Jesus I'm not even involved and by just reading this I feel like I'm back in school and I've had my ### handed to me by the principal.

 
pssttt...baltimore is a decent sized city, with many neighborhoods. there are gorgeous neighborhoods full of white folks some of you would be totally stoked to rally with at a chick filet.

 
No, I'm saying I lived around it and that it sucked in comparison to other cities. Stick to the text. You're making assumptions.

eta* Also, I never wished it ill. You keep imputing things to me I didn't say. I don't care about Baltimore. I never said I hoped bad things happen to it. My whole "not caring" thing has been a response to all the tut-tutting from the left about "oh, now you care..." My response has been, "no, I really don't. Your premise is off." I never wished it ill -- ever. Your comprehension and clear anger towards my positions are causing you to lack reading comprehension and to impute things to me I'm not saying.
OK, fair point. You are simply saying that it sucks in comparison to other cities (you negatively referred to it in the present tense a number of times) based on your experiences living 25 minutes away from it 15 years ago. I apologize for ridiculing such a sound and well-reasoned position.

And sure, when you said that "most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugee," you weren't technically wishing the city harm. You were just being callous (and probably deliberately inflammatory) regarding any harm that might come to the city, no matter how terrible it might be. I once again apologize for misrepresenting your honorable and reasonable position regarding the city of Baltimore.

 
No, I'm saying I lived around it and that it sucked in comparison to other cities. Stick to the text. You're making assumptions.

eta* Also, I never wished it ill. You keep imputing things to me I didn't say. I don't care about Baltimore. I never said I hoped bad things happen to it. My whole "not caring" thing has been a response to all the tut-tutting from the left about "oh, now you care..." My response has been, "no, I really don't. Your premise is off." I never wished it ill -- ever. Your comprehension and clear anger towards my positions are causing you to lack reading comprehension and to impute things to me I'm not saying.
OK, fair point. You are simply saying that it sucks in comparison to other cities (you negatively referred to it in the present tense a number of times) based on your experiences living 25 minutes away from it 15 years ago. I apologize for ridiculing such a sound and well-reasoned position.

And sure, when you said that "most of the entire city could burn and the only thing I'd worry about is the neighboring states having to house and feed the politically insurgent refugee," you weren't technically wishing the city harm. You were just being callous (and probably deliberately inflammatory) regarding any harm that might come to the city, no matter how terrible it might be. I once again apologize for misrepresenting your honorable and reasonable position regarding the city of Baltimore.
:lol:

 
For anyone who actually is interested in Baltimore itself, this probably sums up my experience - my dirty bargain of being able to enjoy an inordinately high quality of life in spite of (and maybe even, in part, because of) the city's socio-economic disparities - about as well as anything.

On a very related note, Spike Gjerde won Baltimore's first-ever James Beard Award last night. Last weekend, I sat outside in the beautiful sunshine drinking delicious craft brew made in an old brick mill, then walked to one of Spike's restaurants and had an unbelievably good sandwich. I was literally less than 2 miles away from Mondawmin Mall where things went crazy last Friday, and yet was completely removed from any of the strife or protests. I just had to get home by curfew.

Not really sure what my point is, other than to reiterate my deep-seated affection for Baltimore, and my hope that the city can someday be a hospitable place to live for as many residents as possible, rather than just the white folks in the north part of town, and in the neighborhoods ringing the Inner Harbor.

 
White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.

 
White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
Defining the entirety of "black America" by the behavior of a handful of black people in America over a few days is a pretty terrible thing to do.

 
I was with a lady this morning who was with Cesar Goodson's ex-wife yesterday. They have a 16yo kid together. The ex-wife was a mess and said that the police are cutting off Cesar's paycheck and benefits this Friday. The kid is also having a very difficult time and has not been back to school.

Eta- Cesar was the driver

 
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White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
Defining the entirety of "black America" by the behavior of a handful of black people in America over a few days is a pretty terrible thing to do.
Defining white America isn't? Defining any group like that is.

Another question. Does anyone give a crap about inner cities? Who and how do you know who does and who doesn't.

 
I don't think you could be a Baltimore policeman now and have any sort of morale left. You've been vilified as a unit and when doing your job if anyone runs from you or God forbid were to draw some kind of weapon on you, you are in a no win situation. Someone drops a gun that goes off and all of a sudden there are reports police have shot someone in the back and another mob was ready to form. Now Joy Reid is interviewing a MD State Senator who went to the hospital to see the guy who was arrested and taken to the hospital. So now we've got state senate members going to check on people arrested for carrying guns that discharge on the street.
They are going to end up with exactly what they deserve.
Interesting response. A bit horrendous actually, IMO.The vast majority of African-Americans living in the areas where the rioting took place did not participate in the riots. They were the people who cleaned up the mess over the next few days. They are the people who are generally law-abiding, but who suspect that Gray was wrongfully killed, and who want justice. So they protest peacefully, because they don't approve or participate in violence.

Tell me, what do these people deserve?
:lmao:

They deserve whichever officers decide to stick around after getting lambasted for the actions of a few.

There's nothing horrendous about that.

 
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White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
Defining the entirety of "black America" by the behavior of a handful of black people in America over a few days is a pretty terrible thing to do.
Defining white America isn't? Defining any group like that is.

Another question. Does anyone give a crap about inner cities? Who and how do you know who does and who doesn't.
Nobody did this. I think Dr. D may have referred to a white American- specifically rockaction. So that just leaves you doing the pretty terrible thing.

I didn't say anything about who gives a crap about anything. That was you that did that. I would hope that most decent Americans care about their fellow Americans and places in America and want the best for them, but I have no idea if that's true.

 
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White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
Defining the entirety of "black America" by the behavior of a handful of black people in America over a few days is a pretty terrible thing to do.
Defining white America isn't? Defining any group like that is.

Another question. Does anyone give a crap about inner cities? Who and how do you know who does and who doesn't.
Nobody did this. I think Dr. D may have referred to a white American- specifically rockaction. So that just leaves you doing the pretty terrible thing.

I didn't say anything about who gives a crap about anything. I would hope that most decent Americans care about their fellow Americans and places in America and want the best for them, but I have no idea if that's true.
Nah, I took it that way but he seemed to state later on that it was a general comment. :shrug:

 
White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
Defining the entirety of "black America" by the behavior of a handful of black people in America over a few days is a pretty terrible thing to do.
Defining white America isn't? Defining any group like that is.Another question. Does anyone give a crap about inner cities? Who and how do you know who does and who doesn't.
Nobody did this. I think Dr. D may have referred to a white American- specifically rockaction. So that just leaves you doing the pretty terrible thing.

I didn't say anything about who gives a crap about anything. That was you that did that. I would hope that most decent Americans care about their fellow Americans and places in America and want the best for them, but I have no idea if that's true.
LOL

Try again with your bull####. You're too busy arguing with someone different in this thread every day to even read clearly and are resorting to putting words in people's mouths just to be a tool and try to pay yourself on the back again.

 
LOLTry again with your bull####. You're too busy arguing with someone different in this thread every day to even read clearly and are resorting to putting words in people's mouths just to be a tool and try to pay yourself on the back again.
Really?

OK, here's your entire post, word for word:

White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
You want to explain to me how that's not an effort to define the feelings and concerns of "black America" by the short-term behavior of a relatively small number of people? Go for it. I haven't editorialized or taken anything out of context. If I've misinterpreted your words here I'd love to hear you explain what you really meant.

 
I don't think you could be a Baltimore policeman now and have any sort of morale left. You've been vilified as a unit and when doing your job if anyone runs from you or God forbid were to draw some kind of weapon on you, you are in a no win situation. Someone drops a gun that goes off and all of a sudden there are reports police have shot someone in the back and another mob was ready to form. Now Joy Reid is interviewing a MD State Senator who went to the hospital to see the guy who was arrested and taken to the hospital. So now we've got state senate members going to check on people arrested for carrying guns that discharge on the street.
They are going to end up with exactly what they deserve.
Interesting response. A bit horrendous actually, IMO.The vast majority of African-Americans living in the areas where the rioting took place did not participate in the riots. They were the people who cleaned up the mess over the next few days. They are the people who are generally law-abiding, but who suspect that Gray was wrongfully killed, and who want justice. So they protest peacefully, because they don't approve or participate in violence.

Tell me, what do these people deserve?
:lmao:

They deserve whichever officers decide to stick around after getting lambasted for the actions of a few.

There's nothing horrendous about that.
Yeah there pretty much is.

First off, thanks for confirming that you were, in fact, referring to the black citizens of Baltimore. You think that the entire black community in Baltimore deserves to suffer from lack of police because the police have been blamed for what happened to Gray. You ignore the fact that there is a justifiable reason that blacks are angry at police in Baltimore and that what happened to Gray is only the very latest incident. Every time that one of these incidents happen, you either try to seek out justification for it, or else you ascribe it to "the actions of a few" as you did here. You refuse to ever acknowledge that there might be a systemic mistreatment of young black men by police. And at the same time that you complain about blaming all police for the "actions of a few", you seem to want to blame each and every black citizen of Baltimore for the riots that occurred. Which is why in your mind, they're going to "end up with exactly what they deserve."

It's absolutely horrendous, and that's far from the worst word I could use.

 
LOL

Try again with your bull####. You're too busy arguing with someone different in this thread every day to even read clearly and are resorting to putting words in people's mouths just to be a tool and try to pay yourself on the back again.
Really?

OK, here's your entire post, word for word:

White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
You want to explain to me how that's not an effort to define the feelings and concerns of "black America" by the short-term behavior of a relatively small number of people? Go for it. I haven't editorialized or taken anything out of context. If I've misinterpreted your words here I'd love to hear you explain what you really meant.
Go ahead and take care of the white America comment first before trying to be the forum cop again. But doing that wouldn't help you push your agenda so carry on.

 
LOL

Try again with your bull####. You're too busy arguing with someone different in this thread every day to even read clearly and are resorting to putting words in people's mouths just to be a tool and try to pay yourself on the back again.
Really?

OK, here's your entire post, word for word:

White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
You want to explain to me how that's not an effort to define the feelings and concerns of "black America" by the short-term behavior of a relatively small number of people? Go for it. I haven't editorialized or taken anything out of context. If I've misinterpreted your words here I'd love to hear you explain what you really meant.
Go ahead and take care of the white America comment first before trying to be the forum cop again. But doing that wouldn't help you push your agenda so carry on.
Dr. D said "white American" (i.e. a single person) and then later said it was a tongue in cheek follow-up on The Man's defense of his city from attacks in this thread. Works for me.

Regarding your post- as I said before, I'd be happy to hear you explain what you meant and how I misinterpreted it as something other than what I read it to say. I'm not editorializing or taking anything out of context or twisting your words- in fact I'm waiting to hear you explain them. Let's hear it.

 
Horribly offensive and awful things coming from the former Deputy State's Attorney.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe. Page Croyder spent 21 years in the Baltimore state's attorneys office, most recently as a deputy state's attorney. Her blog can be seen here: http://pagecroyder.blogspot.com.

 
Former Deputy State's Attorney - Mosby's charges are either incompetent or unethically reckless.

http://touch.baltimoresun.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-83464082/
There seems to be much debate on this. I have heard Alan Dershowitz, whom I respect immensely, say the same thing, but I have heard other attorneys on TV for whom I also have a great deal of respect for disagree. I think it would be worth digging into this issue in some detail. It would be nice if attorneys in the FFA could study both the criticisms and the justifications and offer their own opinions.

 
Also, enough with the whining about "forum police." It's a public message board. If you express a sentiment people are going to comment on it and engage you in discussion. If you want to say something without fear of being challenged on it get yourself a diary and write it in there.

 
Horribly offensive and awful things coming from the former Deputy State's Attorney.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe. Page Croyder spent 21 years in the Baltimore state's attorneys office, most recently as a deputy state's attorney. Her blog can be seen here: http://pagecroyder.blogspot.com.
Is your phrase "horribly offensive" meant to be sarcastic?

There is nothing offensive in what she wrote. It's rather harsh, and I think it's probably over the top. (It reminds me of liberals who promised to leave the USA when Bush was re-elected.) It would have been offensive for her to add, "And if all the police do quit, that will be what the people of Baltimore deserve!" which is akin to what jonessed posted.

But again, I wish we could get away from some of this hyperbole and really examine the reasons these people find the charges to be so incompetent.

 
Also, enough with the whining about "forum police." It's a public message board. If you express a sentiment people are going to comment on it and engage you in discussion. If you want to say something without fear of being challenged on it get yourself a diary and write it in there.
Duly noted. We will start personally insulting the members of the left. "Copernicus," "Captain Meltdown," "mad man," "miserable," "sad," "lazy," "pathetic," "terrible," "horrendous," "[worse than Baltimore's worst]," "moronic," "overt[ly] racist," etc.

We've exercised a ton of restraint in this thread. You all are just pissed that a left-wing city has completely come undone because of endemic corruption and terrible governance, to which I say, "tough ####." Keep yelling at us. Won't change the facts one bit.

 
Horribly offensive and awful things coming from the former Deputy State's Attorney.

If I were a Baltimore police officer, I'd be looking for another job immediately. And as a Baltimore citizen, I may start looking for someplace else to live. When the police cannot depend upon the state's attorney to be as thorough, competent, non-political and fair with them as she is supposed to be with all citizens, none of us will be safe. Page Croyder spent 21 years in the Baltimore state's attorneys office, most recently as a deputy state's attorney. Her blog can be seen here: http://pagecroyder.blogspot.com.
Is your phrase "horribly offensive" meant to be sarcastic?

There is nothing offensive in what she wrote. It's rather harsh, and I think it's probably over the top. (It reminds me of liberals who promised to leave the USA when Bush was re-elected.) It would have been offensive for her to add, "And if all the police do quit, that will be what the people of Baltimore deserve!" which is akin to what jonessed posted.

But again, I wish we could get away from some of this hyperbole and really examine the reasons these people find the charges to be so incompetent.
Yes, it was very sarcastic. It was essentially the same thing jonessed was saying, without going the step further and saying those that remain deserve what they get. But when a respected politician and judicial candidate is telling you to move from the city she served for 21 years, there's something there.

 
New poll shows what we all know - race relations in the U.S. are at their worst levels in a quarter century - since the Rodney King riots in 1992: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-news-new-york-times-poll-views-on-race-relations-hit-two-decade-low/

61% of Americans think race relations are bad, up 23 percentage points since Freddie Gray died. What's noteworthy about the numbers is that the percentage of whites describing race relations as bad has shot up - from 35% in February to 62% now. For the first time in a very long while both races view the situation equally grim. A lot of damage was done in Baltimore last week, and I'm not talking about burned down buildings.

 
I don't think you could be a Baltimore policeman now and have any sort of morale left. You've been vilified as a unit and when doing your job if anyone runs from you or God forbid were to draw some kind of weapon on you, you are in a no win situation. Someone drops a gun that goes off and all of a sudden there are reports police have shot someone in the back and another mob was ready to form. Now Joy Reid is interviewing a MD State Senator who went to the hospital to see the guy who was arrested and taken to the hospital. So now we've got state senate members going to check on people arrested for carrying guns that discharge on the street.
They are going to end up with exactly what they deserve.
Interesting response. A bit horrendous actually, IMO.The vast majority of African-Americans living in the areas where the rioting took place did not participate in the riots. They were the people who cleaned up the mess over the next few days. They are the people who are generally law-abiding, but who suspect that Gray was wrongfully killed, and who want justice. So they protest peacefully, because they don't approve or participate in violence.

Tell me, what do these people deserve?
:lmao: They deserve whichever officers decide to stick around after getting lambasted for the actions of a few.

There's nothing horrendous about that.
Yeah there pretty much is.First off, thanks for confirming that you were, in fact, referring to the black citizens of Baltimore. You think that the entire black community in Baltimore deserves to suffer from lack of police because the police have been blamed for what happened to Gray. You ignore the fact that there is a justifiable reason that blacks are angry at police in Baltimore and that what happened to Gray is only the very latest incident. Every time that one of these incidents happen, you either try to seek out justification for it, or else you ascribe it to "the actions of a few" as you did here. You refuse to ever acknowledge that there might be a systemic mistreatment of young black men by police. And at the same time that you complain about blaming all police for the "actions of a few", you seem to want to blame each and every black citizen of Baltimore for the riots that occurred. Which is why in your mind, they're going to "end up with exactly what they deserve."

It's absolutely horrendous, and that's far from the worst word I could use.
Blaming blacks :lmao: . I never referred to race. You did. Everything always has to be about racism with you.

All of the citizens of Baltimore gets to vote and they all get stuck with the same police force. If the people of Baltimore want something different they should vote for it. If they want a different police force they are free to get rid of the police chief. The same goes for any city. If they want to lump the good officers with the bad and crap on all of them that's their prerogative. What they get at the end is exactly what they deserve. It's their city and it's their responsibility.

You need to make a case that the Baltimore police force has large, systemic racial bias. I'm not going to run on your assumption that all police forces are intrinsically racist.

 
Also, enough with the whining about "forum police." It's a public message board. If you express a sentiment people are going to comment on it and engage you in discussion. If you want to say something without fear of being challenged on it get yourself a diary and write it in there.
Duly noted. We will start personally insulting the members of the left. "Copernicus," "Captain Meltdown," "mad man," "miserable," "sad," "lazy," "pathetic," "terrible," "horrendous," "[worse than Baltimore's worst]," "moronic," "overt[ly] racist," etc.

We've exercised a ton of restraint in this thread. You all are just pissed that a left-wing city has completely come undone because of endemic corruption and terrible governance, to which I say, "tough ####." Keep yelling at us. Won't change the facts one bit.
I don't see where you get "please use personal insults" from my post- which also wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the guy who complained about me playing forum cop a couple posts back- but sure. Fire away. I don't mind name-calling. In fact I might actually get something out of it that I find interesting or useful, so in that sense it would represent your best work here.

I do find it odd that you feel entitled to tell me and others what we think despite it not being said (the bolded) shortly after you threw a hissy fit complaining about a similar thing being done to you. So maybe try to avoid doing that? The use of personal insults should give you plenty of options for your regularly scheduled crazy ranting.

 
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I read the editorial that rockaction linked, but it doesn't have very much detail explaining exactly WHY the charges are incompetent. It complains that she didn't use some expert the writer wanted her to use, and that she made her decision too quickly, but neither of these complaints goes to the incompetence of the actual charges. This is, however, this portion:

In fact, Ms. Mosby was so hasty it appears she locked up two completely innocent officers. She charged Freddie Gray’s arresting officers with “false imprisonment” because she said the knife that Gray had on him was legal. In fact, as The Sun reported, the Police Task Force found it to be illegal after all. It was Ms. Mosby who had no probable cause to lock the arresting officers up, an injustice she could have easily avoided by taking her time.

Within the editorial, this appears to be the only factual criticism. Now if it's true, it's certainly problematic. However, there is no link to this information, and the only support I could find online is this "Legal Insurrection" website:

http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/05/confirmed-freddie-grays-knife-was-illegal/

...and the argument about the knife actually being illegal is very confusing to me; I don't understand it. I understood when the prosecutor said, "they wrote it was a switchblade and illegal, when in fact it wasn't a switchblade"- anybody can understand that. But I don't understand this. In any case, I thought that the whole point of the prosecutor's statement about the knife was to point out evidence that the police had fabricated their original report. That was my impression, and still is. So even if the actual knife is somehow illegal, I'm not sure what that has to do with fabricating the report and mentioning a switchblade, which was the basis for the false imprisonment charge. But then, I'm not a lawyer.

I'm still trying to find Dershowitz's critique. Hopefully it will be better than this one, which really doesn't make any sense to me.

 
I'm trying to understand this false imprisonment charge. They thought the knife was illegal so they arrested him. Now they say the knife wasn't illegal, but there are reports (above) that it was illegal.

So, if a cop busts someone for what he thinks is cocaine, and they find out its not cocaine, can he be charged with false imprisonment?

 
I don't think you could be a Baltimore policeman now and have any sort of morale left. You've been vilified as a unit and when doing your job if anyone runs from you or God forbid were to draw some kind of weapon on you, you are in a no win situation. Someone drops a gun that goes off and all of a sudden there are reports police have shot someone in the back and another mob was ready to form. Now Joy Reid is interviewing a MD State Senator who went to the hospital to see the guy who was arrested and taken to the hospital. So now we've got state senate members going to check on people arrested for carrying guns that discharge on the street.
They are going to end up with exactly what they deserve.
Interesting response. A bit horrendous actually, IMO.The vast majority of African-Americans living in the areas where the rioting took place did not participate in the riots. They were the people who cleaned up the mess over the next few days. They are the people who are generally law-abiding, but who suspect that Gray was wrongfully killed, and who want justice. So they protest peacefully, because they don't approve or participate in violence.

Tell me, what do these people deserve?
:lmao: They deserve whichever officers decide to stick around after getting lambasted for the actions of a few.

There's nothing horrendous about that.
Yeah there pretty much is.First off, thanks for confirming that you were, in fact, referring to the black citizens of Baltimore. You think that the entire black community in Baltimore deserves to suffer from lack of police because the police have been blamed for what happened to Gray. You ignore the fact that there is a justifiable reason that blacks are angry at police in Baltimore and that what happened to Gray is only the very latest incident. Every time that one of these incidents happen, you either try to seek out justification for it, or else you ascribe it to "the actions of a few" as you did here. You refuse to ever acknowledge that there might be a systemic mistreatment of young black men by police. And at the same time that you complain about blaming all police for the "actions of a few", you seem to want to blame each and every black citizen of Baltimore for the riots that occurred. Which is why in your mind, they're going to "end up with exactly what they deserve."

It's absolutely horrendous, and that's far from the worst word I could use.
Blaming blacks :lmao: . I never referred to race. You did. Everything always has to be about racism with you.

All of the citizens of Baltimore gets to vote and they all get stuck with the same police force. If the people of Baltimore want something different they should vote for it. If they want a different police force they are free to get rid of the police chief. The same goes for any city. If they want to lump the good officers with the bad and crap on all of them that's their prerogative. What they get at the end is exactly what they deserve. It's their city and it's their responsibility.

You need to make a case that the Baltimore police force has large, systemic racial bias. I'm not going to run on your assumption that all police forces are intrinsically racist.
Based on your history of posts, I wouldn't expect you to.

I don't think we need to belabor the point about police forces and systemic racism. The evidence is there, and I have made arguments in the past at length and ad nauseum. You're free to reject them and apparently you do. You seem like a very bright person to me and although I disagree with you strongly on many issues, I think most of your reasoning is perfectly legitimate, if different from mine. In this case, I don't find your reasoning to be legitimate, and I thought that what you wrote was awful. Let's move on.

 
LOL

Try again with your bull####. You're too busy arguing with someone different in this thread every day to even read clearly and are resorting to putting words in people's mouths just to be a tool and try to pay yourself on the back again.
Really?

OK, here's your entire post, word for word:

White America doesn't care about inner cities (in this case Baltimore)? Does black America care? Didn't look like it when they fight rogue cops by breaking the law and destroying their own businesses and property.
You want to explain to me how that's not an effort to define the feelings and concerns of "black America" by the short-term behavior of a relatively small number of people? Go for it. I haven't editorialized or taken anything out of context. If I've misinterpreted your words here I'd love to hear you explain what you really meant.
Go ahead and take care of the white America comment first before trying to be the forum cop again. But doing that wouldn't help you push your agenda so carry on.
Dr. D said "white American" (i.e. a single person) and then later said it was a tongue in cheek follow-up on The Man's defense of his city from attacks in this thread. Works for me.

Regarding your post- as I said before, I'd be happy to hear you explain what you meant and how I misinterpreted it as something other than what I read it to say. I'm not editorializing or taking anything out of context or twisting your words- in fact I'm waiting to hear you explain them. Let's hear it.
I've seen your style and highly doubt you're interested in anything other than being a tool here

 

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