Baltimore: The Next Ferguson? (1 Viewer)

[Hang 10]

When and why did General Tso get banned?

 

[avoiding injuries]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/freddie-gray-family-reached-6-4m-settlement-report-article-1.2351905

$6.4M to the Gray family.

I've gotta be careful when I'm downtown. Tow trucks and parking tickets are going to skyrocket.

 

[avoiding injuries]

When and why did General Tso get banned?

It's fishy. He was posting one night and then a guest the next morning. Tim said he sent him a PM saying he was taking a break because of personal attacks.

 

[Hang 10]

When and why did General Tso get banned?

It's fishy. He was posting one night and then a guest the next morning. Tim said he sent him a PM saying he was taking a break because of personal attacks.

He banned himself?

 

[The_Man]

SHOCKER: Mayor Rawlings Blake will not run for re-election. Doesn't want every decision she makes over next 15 months to be viewed as political, in context of campaign.

Might be the best thing she has done during her entire tenure.

Gonna be a wide open race. Come on, Keiffer Mitchell. You got this!

 

[dutch]

SHOCKER: Mayor Rawlings Blake will not run for re-election. Doesn't want every decision she makes over next 15 months to be viewed as political, in context of campaign.

Might be the best thing she has done during her entire tenure.

Gonna be a wide open race. Come on, Keiffer Mitchell. You got this!

Lived on his block a few years back; good guy, good family, smart, been in politics forever, comes from a long line of involved politicians and activists, I think he's a great choice. Anything other than the return of Dixon. I can't stand that lady.

 

[cstu]

SHOCKER: Mayor Rawlings Blake will not run for re-election. Doesn't want every decision she makes over next 15 months to be viewed as political, in context of campaign.

Might be the best thing she has done during her entire tenure.

Gonna be a wide open race. Come on, Keiffer Mitchell. You got this!

Lived on his block a few years back; good guy, good family, smart, been in politics forever, comes from a long line of involved politicians and activists, I think he's a great choice. Anything other than the return of Dixon. I can't stand that lady.

Not nearly as hot.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

saiah L. Carter ‏@IsaiahLCarter

Kendal Fenwick was EXECUTED protecting his family. Yet was culled by demons selling poison to their own.

Police: Single father dies trying to protect children from gunfireBALTIMORE, Md. – Baltimore officers say they are outraged following the murder of a young father who was known for “doing all the right things.”

Kendal Fenwick was a 24-year-old community activist and truck driver, who was working to rid the community of drugs and violence.

“It takes a special, cowardly, insecure little punk to do what happened here last evening, to flat out execute a 24-year-old young man who is raising, by himself, three children in this home, who’s doing everything he can to eradicate the community of drugs, to include putting up a fence by his own hands in his yard,” Police Commissioner Kevin Davis told WBAL.

The single father of three stepped out of his home on Monday evening to get something from his car when someone opened fire.

Investigators believe Fenwick did not head for his front door, but instead ran away from his house.

They say his three young children were inside at the time of the shooting, and Fenwick was likely trying to draw the fire as far away from them as possible.

“He wanted to protect his children, is what we believe. And again, that’s what makes this even more egregious,” said Director T.J. Smith, with the Baltimore Police Department.

Neighbors say Fenwick was never involved in criminal activity and are shocked by his murder.

“He always was with his children and his family,” said Tamyra Garris. “He was really a family oriented guy. I never seen nobody trying to run him down or hurt him. That’s what I’m saying, so when I get the phone call he got killed, I was hoping it was a mistake.”

Fenwick’s murder is the 295th homicide in Baltimore this year.

Police commissioner decries 'cowardly' killer of Park Heights fatherBaltimore's latest homicide victim was raising three children in Park Heights. To make their home safe from drug dealers, he was building a fence around the property.

On Monday night, with chicken nuggets and french fries on the stove for the kids, 24-year-old Kendal Fenwick stepped outside and was gunned down in the street. When the children heard the gunshots, their mother said, they ran to a closet to hide.

Police believe Fenwick's effort to keep illicit activity from his home might have made him a target.

With shootings in the city continuing at a rapid clip, Police Commissioner Kevin Davis stood in the rain on Fenwick's mostly vacant street Tuesday and urged the community to help police stop the violence.

"It takes a ... cowardly, insecure little punk to do what happened here last evening," Davis told reporters.

Fenwick was the 295th person killed in Baltimore this year. The city is poised to exceed 300 homicides for the year, a mark not seen since the 1990s.

Kendal Fenwick, 24, was killed Monday night near his Park Heights home.

(Facebook photo tweeted by the Baltimore Police)
"There's something different in the air," Davis said. "You see it here: callous, highly motivated violent repeat offenders who … don't think twice about executing a vulnerable human being like our victim here today.

"This victim's not in the game," Davis said. "We need to be outraged when someone like him is killed in this manner."

City Councilwoman Sharon Green Middleton called the killing a "cowardly, cowardly act" and implored neighbors to help police.

Homicide detectives walked around the property in the 3500 block of Park Heights Ave. on Tuesday morning, taking note of the improvements Fenwick had made to the free-standing house, including yellow flowers planted along the front walk and the half-finished fence.

Records show Fenwick purchased the property with a relative in 2013 for $8,000. Many of the neighboring properties are vacant homes or empty lots where homes once stood.

Fenwick worked as a truck driver. His family does home improvement work and owns several properties, according to family friend Ivan Bates.

"It hurts," said Bates, a prominent local attorney. "Not only because I'm friends with his father and I know the kid, but because if Baltimore's going to grow and become the great city it needs to be, it needs people like Kendal who just want to live in the city and raise a family."

Tamyra Garris, who lives next door, said Fenwick had a "green hand" and tried to keep the area clean. She noted that the fence he was building would have helped secure her property as well.

Cheo Hurley, executive director of Park Heights Renaissance Inc., a community nonprofit focused on improving the area, said Fenwick's killing was "totally against what we're trying to accomplish here."

"We're trying to change the community," he said. "We're trying to give people opportunities here. We're trying to make this a livable community."

Hurley wants to see more investment in efforts such as Park Heights Safe Streets. He also wants programs that give young men opportunities beyond the drug trade.

The Northwestern District has seen 40 homicides this year, the most since 1999 — the last time the city recorded 300.

"It's disheartening," said Hurley, who grew up in Baltimore in the 1990s."The question is, what can we do as a community — Park Heights first and then Baltimore City as a whole — to give people options where they don't have to shoot other people?

"I don't know what caused this. I do know that people feel like they don't have a lot of options, particularly young African-American men."

Police spokesman T.J. Smith said investigators believe Fenwick was ambushed when he stepped outside, and that he ran away from the home in hopes of directing the gunshots away from the house where children were inside.

Fenwick had two children, a 5-year-old son and a 3-year-old daughter, with Dominique Jarvis. He also had a 7-month-old son.

Jarvis said she and Fenwick "had our trials and tribulations" — court records show a series of domestic violence-related complaints filed by both — "but he was a great dad," she said, and recalled a birthday party they had recently for their daughter.

Fenwick's boss, Kris McDowell, said Fenwick had missed work in recent months or showed up late. McDowell fired him.

Then he learned that Fenwick had been trying to juggle work with his responsibilities as a parent. McDowell rehired him.

"Everybody deserves a second chance, especially someone like him," McDowell said. "I respect that very highly. Obviously, in our community, you don't have too many men like that as far as taking care of their kids."

McDowell said he's tired of the senseless violence.

"It has to stop," he said. "I've been living here 16 years. I don't come out on the streets for a reason. I'm in fear of my kids growing up without me. All I do is work, and home. Stay home with your family."

For Fenwick, even that wasn't enough.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-park-heights-homicide-20151110-story.html

 

[The Z Machine]

Yeah, thanks for posting such uplifting stories.

 

[matttyl]

Heard on the radio this morning that Baltimore had it's 300th homicide of the year over the weekend. The worst year they've ever had is 305, which they may surpass this weekend or next week. So sad.

 

[avoiding injuries]

Heard on the radio this morning that Baltimore had it's 300th homicide of the year over the weekend. The worst year they've ever had is 305, which they may surpass this weekend or next week. So sad.

I think it's officially 302. Also heard that Ed Norris may run for mayor.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Bracing for this first verdict, the jury needs to give the guy something just for the sake of the city.

Obviously I'm kidding...but I'm really not.

 

[The_Man]

I remain optimistic that there won't be widespread violence, regardless of the verdict. My only nagging fear is the utter incompetence of the mayor and the complete lack of effort she has put forward in preparing the city for this moment, other than to massively up the police presence and promise a more aggressive stance on their part.

Sadly, it was an aggressive police stance that helped precipitate the unrest in April. I wish she would have been working this whole time with civic and community leaders to help create a unified response.

 

[jonessed]

I remain optimistic that there won't be widespread violence, regardless of the verdict. My only nagging fear is the utter incompetence of the mayor and the complete lack of effort she has put forward in preparing the city for this moment, other than to massively up the police presence and promise a more aggressive stance on their part.

Sadly, it was an aggressive police stance that helped precipitate the unrest in April. I wish she would have been working this whole time with civic and community leaders to help create a unified response.

As long as she gives them space to loot and destroy things should be fine.

 

[avoiding injuries]

I live in a surrounding county of the city and they have cancelled all field trips into the city.

I am not as optimistic as the man. I think things get out of control again, especially since it doesn't seem like the prosecution did enough for a conviction. Maybe something minor, but that won't please the crowd.

 

[RCon]

Seems like the prosecution didn't lead with it's strongest case, meaning they probably have better cases against one or more of the other officers. At least, I hope they do. If they do, seems like they should have started with the most likely conviction.

 

[avoiding injuries]

I've heard that the first trial was the most important for other convictions. Now the defense will know more about the prosecutor's case and be able to defend it better. Nobody wanted to go first.

 

[The_Man]

I live in a surrounding county of the city and they have cancelled all field trips into the city.

I am not as optimistic as the man. I think things get out of control again, especially since it doesn't seem like the prosecution did enough for a conviction. Maybe something minor, but that won't please the crowd.

The canceled field trips aren't necessarily an indicator of much other than suburban fear of the city. But I am hearing bad things about the police again mounting a riot force at the Mondawmin Transit Center. This is what sparked the riot last time and have no idea why they're doing it again today, especially since the jury is still deliberating.

This sucks.

 

[Hang 10]

I live in a surrounding county of the city and they have cancelled all field trips into the city.

I am not as optimistic as the man. I think things get out of control again, especially since it doesn't seem like the prosecution did enough for a conviction. Maybe something minor, but that won't please the crowd.

The canceled field trips aren't necessarily an indicator of much other than suburban fear of the city. But I am hearing bad things about the police again mounting a riot force at the Mondawmin Transit Center. This is what sparked the riot last time and have no idea why they're doing it again today, especially since the jury is still deliberating.

This sucks.

You don't think the cops should prepare for potential riots?

 

[avoiding injuries]

Police officers from neighboring jurisdictions have begun staging in Baltimore in preparation for unrest that local commanders hope never materializes.

On Tuesday afternoon, Anne Arundel County Police officers were photographed staging in Druid Hill Park with an armored vehicle, helmets and shields by local photographer Devin Allen, who was made famous after one of his images from April's unrest landed on the cover of Time magazine. Allen posted his images on Twitter, where he has about 12,500 followers including many journalists. A Baltimore Sun reporter who responded to the park also observed dozens of officers and protective gear, though the officers were no longer wearing the gear.

T.J. Smith, the Baltimore Police Department's chief spokesman, confirmed the presence of outside law enforcement personnel in the city but said the images were "not the visual that we want to portray."

"Our goal is to try to keep our assisting agencies out of sight, out of mind, away from general public view as best we can," he said. "It isn't anything where we want to raise anxieties."

Smith said there is "no reason for the equipment to be donned at this point."

Smith said he could not say how many outside agencies are in the city, or provide other "tactical" information as to their deployments, but said "these assisting agencies and that equipment is only used if absolutely necessary. It's not part of normal police response to things."

 

[Ditka Butkus]

Hung Jury.........Baltimore is going to burn tonight.

 

[matttyl]

I'm not as legally knowledgeable as I should be - but is this a mistrial, hung jury, or both? And how can it be both?

 

[lod01]

Shame on Baltimore for trying to railroad one of their finest.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm not as legally knowledgeable as I should be - but is this a mistrial, hung jury, or both? And how can it be both?

Hung jury describes the status of the jury decision, mistrial is the result. Hung jury:mistrial :: guilty verdict:conviction.

 

[ClownCausedChaos2]

Can he be retried for the same crime after a hung jury/mistrial?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Can he be retried for the same crime after a hung jury/mistrial?

Yup

 

[dutch]

Can he be retried for the same crime after a hung jury/mistrial?

yes

 

[The_Man]

Hung Jury.........Baltimore is going to burn tonight.

This is incorrect.

Only strife anywhere right now are the sheriffs hassling the media outside the courthouse. That's after they arrested one of the city's most respected activists for the crime of standing on a public sidewalk.

It's almost like all these heavily armed, jacked-up dudes want to incite something...

 

[The_Man]

If you want to see what's happening realtime, here are some great Twitter follows. Police are clearly acting very aggro in cleaning law-abiding people off a public sidewalk for no reason at all:

@cmcampbell6 - Baltimore Sun reporter

@ChuckModi1 - street journalist

@MichaelAWoodJr - retired Baltimore City cop and anti-police corruption activist

@RectorSun - Baltimore Sun reporter

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Wow, what a complete sham.

Btw in NO the city just settled with a family for a cop shooting an innocent person. The number was somewhere in the 6 figure range, like $250K.

 

[The_Man]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

 

[TPW]

New Baltimore theme song?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

If you want to see what's happening realtime, here are some great Twitter follows. Police are clearly acting very aggro in cleaning law-abiding people off a public sidewalk for no reason at all:

@cmcampbell6 - Baltimore Sun reporter

@ChuckModi1 - street journalist

@MichaelAWoodJr - retired Baltimore City cop and anti-police corruption activist

@RectorSun - Baltimore Sun reporter

Looks like protests are underway, but all peaceful?

How is it for folks working downtown or near city hall right now?

 

[avoiding injuries]

If you want to see what's happening realtime, here are some great Twitter follows. Police are clearly acting very aggro in cleaning law-abiding people off a public sidewalk for no reason at all:

@cmcampbell6 - Baltimore Sun reporter

@ChuckModi1 - street journalist

@MichaelAWoodJr - retired Baltimore City cop and anti-police corruption activist

@RectorSun - Baltimore Sun reporter

Looks like protests are underway, but all peaceful?

How is it for folks working downtown or near city hall right now?

They have one of the main roads in/out of the city blocked (83).

 

[shadrap]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Has there been any reporting on how the jury split?

 

[shadrap]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Has there been any reporting on how the jury split?

Not that I know of. Just "then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was never going to convict a police of anything". My question based on his post.

 

[The_Man]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Um, completely wrong. The defendant in the case is African-American.

Assuming at least one authoritarian who will support police no matter what they do.

 

[shadrap]

This will not end well. Just a hunch.

 

[avoiding injuries]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Um, completely wrong. The defendant in the case is African-American.

Assuming at least one authoritarian who will support police no matter what they do.

How is that different from someone saying there was one holdout that wouldn't let the cop walk no matter what they do?The media has been trying to get a breakdown of the split, unsuccessfully.

 

[shadrap]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Um, completely wrong. The defendant in the case is African-American.

Assuming at least one authoritarian who will support police no matter what they do.

How is that different from someone saying there was one holdout that wouldn't let the cop walk no matter what they do?The media has been trying to get a breakdown of the split, unsuccessfully.

exactly.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Um, completely wrong. The defendant in the case is African-American.

Assuming at least one authoritarian who will support police no matter what they do.

I think we are jumping the gun here.

We have had police prosecuted down here in NO, albeit in federal court. But federal court is typically much more suburban, white, conservative than our city and parish/state courts. The harder venue was federal court where convictions have been won.

Baltimore's cops trial was in city/county court, yes? Just curious what is the likely demographic makeup of that county, does that include any suburban areas?

 

[The_Man]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Um, completely wrong. The defendant in the case is African-American.

Assuming at least one authoritarian who will support police no matter what they do.

How is that different from someone saying there was one holdout that wouldn't let the cop walk no matter what they do?The media has been trying to get a breakdown of the split, unsuccessfully.

exactly.

For starters, race had nothing to do with my statement.

The difference between someone determined to "get" a cop vs. someone determined to "spring" a cop is the legal experts who watched the case for more than 2 weeks and felt that the standard for reckless endangerment had been reached beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[The_Man]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Um, completely wrong. The defendant in the case is African-American.

Assuming at least one authoritarian who will support police no matter what they do.

I think we are jumping the gun here.

We have had police prosecuted down here in NO, albeit in federal court. But federal court is typically much more suburban, white, conservative than our city and parish/state courts. The harder venue was federal court where convictions have been won.

Baltimore's cops trial was in city/county court, yes? Just curious what is the likely demographic makeup of that county, does that include any suburban areas?

Trial was in Baltimore City court, not the County.

Jury was made up of 4 black women, 3 black men, 3 white women and 2 white men.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hung Jury Leads To Mistrial For 4 In Toddler’s SlayingBALTIMORE (AP) — Prosecutors say four men will be retried in the shooting death of a 16-month-old boy after their first trial ended in a hung jury.

WJZ media partner The Baltimore Sun reports a lone holdout on the jury at Baltimore Circuit Court Friday blocked the convictions of 23-year-old Eddie Tarver, 27-year-old Reginald Love, 24-year-old Rashid Mayo and 22-year-old Dequan Shields for the death of Carter Scott in 2013. Jurors must vote unanimously for a conviction.

Prosecutors say Scott was in the backseat of his father’s car when multiple shooters fired at the vehicle at least 16 times in 2013. The child was shot in the legs and bled to death.

The father was hit several times, but survived.

Last week, 28-year-old Cornell Harvey was found guilty of murder charges in the Scott case.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/06/16/hung-jury-leads-to-mistrial-for-4-in-toddlers-slaying/

- Just for comparison's sake, what kind of person was the likely holdout here?

 

[avoiding injuries]

The general consensus here is that if they couldn't get a conviction for reckless endangerment, based on what was presented at trial, then there was at least one holdout on the jury who was pretty much never going to convict a Police for anything on any charge.

So your assuming bad jury comprised of one of maybe more racists? Just gathered that from your post. Maybe I read it wrong.

Um, completely wrong. The defendant in the case is African-American.

Assuming at least one authoritarian who will support police no matter what they do.

How is that different from someone saying there was one holdout that wouldn't let the cop walk no matter what they do?The media has been trying to get a breakdown of the split, unsuccessfully.

exactly.

For starters, race had nothing to do with my statement.

The difference between someone determined to "get" a cop vs. someone determined to "spring" a cop is the legal experts who watched the case for more than 2 weeks and felt that the standard for reckless endangerment had been reached beyond a reasonable doubt.

Gosh. Everything I heard from The Sun, 1090 and local TV was predicting that there wasn't enough evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[The_Man]

Hung Jury Leads To Mistrial For 4 In Toddler’s SlayingBALTIMORE (AP) — Prosecutors say four men will be retried in the shooting death of a 16-month-old boy after their first trial ended in a hung jury.

WJZ media partner The Baltimore Sun reports a lone holdout on the jury at Baltimore Circuit Court Friday blocked the convictions of 23-year-old Eddie Tarver, 27-year-old Reginald Love, 24-year-old Rashid Mayo and 22-year-old Dequan Shields for the death of Carter Scott in 2013. Jurors must vote unanimously for a conviction.

Prosecutors say Scott was in the backseat of his father’s car when multiple shooters fired at the vehicle at least 16 times in 2013. The child was shot in the legs and bled to death.

The father was hit several times, but survived.

Last week, 28-year-old Cornell Harvey was found guilty of murder charges in the Scott case.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/06/16/hung-jury-leads-to-mistrial-for-4-in-toddlers-slaying/

- Just for comparison's sake, what kind of person was the likely holdout here?

A horrible one?

Media reporting live from Penn North,the epicenter of April's unrest. Currently seeing prayer circles and police holding hands with residents.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hung Jury Leads To Mistrial For 4 In Toddler’s SlayingBALTIMORE (AP) — Prosecutors say four men will be retried in the shooting death of a 16-month-old boy after their first trial ended in a hung jury.

WJZ media partner The Baltimore Sun reports a lone holdout on the jury at Baltimore Circuit Court Friday blocked the convictions of 23-year-old Eddie Tarver, 27-year-old Reginald Love, 24-year-old Rashid Mayo and 22-year-old Dequan Shields for the death of Carter Scott in 2013. Jurors must vote unanimously for a conviction.

Prosecutors say Scott was in the backseat of his father’s car when multiple shooters fired at the vehicle at least 16 times in 2013. The child was shot in the legs and bled to death.

The father was hit several times, but survived.

Last week, 28-year-old Cornell Harvey was found guilty of murder charges in the Scott case.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/06/16/hung-jury-leads-to-mistrial-for-4-in-toddlers-slaying/

- Just for comparison's sake, what kind of person was the likely holdout here?

A horrible one?

Media reporting live from Penn North,the epicenter of April's unrest. Currently seeing prayer circles and police holding hands with residents.

Good luck and God Bless to Baltimore, truly. Hang in there. Sounds like a corner is being turned.

 

[The_Man]

Hung Jury.........Baltimore is going to burn tonight.

You must be terribly disappointed.

 

[Hang 10]

Hung Jury.........Baltimore is going to burn tonight.

You must be terribly disappointed.

Thank God for the police presence that desuaded the crowd.