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Banks not allowing your cash into your account. (1 Viewer)

B

BigSteelThrill

Footballguy
So CITI just updated a policy and said it would not allow me/anyone to walk into the bank and pay my own bill with my own cash.

:mellow:

***Yes, I pay most bill online anyway. But I do have some in-bank live transactions.

I know that many banks stopped allowing people to deposit cash into another account (3rd party), which I understand.

But now I cant hand a teller to deposit cash to my account or pay my loan/cc bill. I don't get it. I can hand them a check or money order; so I can walk into 7-11 and get a random a## money order and then deposit it. But I have to utilize a sizeable extra step. I also can stand at the ATM and use (a limited amount of monthly) cash -- but not with a teller.  WTF?

It seems as if they wont allow US Currency to be used with a live teller to pay a debt.  Is that even legal?

 
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“The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled ‘Legal tender,’ which states: ‘United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.’

“This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.”

So, the short answer is that the sandwich shop can set whatever policy it likes when it comes to payment, as long as it is established before a transaction occurs and the customer incurs the debt.

 
Along the same theme of bank stupidity...bank won't allow me to deposit a check and the funds be available for a couple of days.  Bank will allow me to cash check in full inside and then deposit funds in the drive thru, thereby gaining immediate use.

 
BassNBrew said:
“The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 31 U.S.C. 5103, entitled ‘Legal tender,’ which states: ‘United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.’

“This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.”

So, the short answer is that the sandwich shop can set whatever policy it likes when it comes to payment, as long as it is established before a transaction occurs and the customer incurs the debt.
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So in this case, I already had a debt. Already had an account. Already had made cash payments. Had already made cash payments accepted.

Now the bank is changing it.

 
BassNBrew said:
Along the same theme of bank stupidity...bank won't allow me to deposit a check and the funds be available for a couple of days.  Bank will allow me to cash check in full inside and then deposit funds in the drive thru, thereby gaining immediate use.
Click to expand...
Pro tip:

if you are depositing a check into your acct, in a brick and mortar location (i.e. not an ATM) and want the funds available the next day, just take a small amount in cash from the transaction. The CSR has to process all cash out transactions every night, so your deposit will be handled that day. 

 
Someone else mentioned there is a huge difference between a purchase and debt.

If its debt, then the US currency has to be accepted.  A purchase is totally up to the seller.

:unsure:

 
BigSteelThrill said:
Someone else mentioned there is a huge difference between a purchase and debt.

If its debt, then the US currency has to be accepted.  A purchase is totally up to the seller.

:unsure:
Click to expand...
This reads as there is a distinct difference between debts and exchanges.

Some courts have emphasized that the language of 31 U.S.C. Sec. 5103 relates to the payment of debts, which they define as preexisting debts, and therefore that the parties to a transaction or exchange do not have to agree to accept cash as payment for goods or services. Neither 31 U.S.C. Sec. 5103 nor any other federal law requires that a private business, organization or person accept cash in exchange for goods or services.

31 U.S.C. Sec. 5103,   United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.

 
Quint said:
Pro tip:

if you are depositing a check into your acct, in a brick and mortar location (i.e. not an ATM) and want the funds available the next day, just take a small amount in cash from the transaction. The CSR has to process all cash out transactions every night, so your deposit will be handled that day. 
Click to expand...
Pro tip. Doing this will make you bounce many items as this does not work. Source: work at bank and funds availability does not vary based on how you do your transaction. If you do not have available funds to hold a check against, you get nothing and like it.

 
The Big Guy said:
Pro tip. Doing this will make you bounce many items as this does not work. Source: work at bank and funds availability does not vary based on how you do your transaction. If you do not have available funds to hold a check against, you get nothing and like it.
Click to expand...
Q and example: 

my (nonFBG) checking account balance is $100. I deposit a check (with a CSR) for $500, and ask for $20 back in cash, at 3:00 pm on Monday.  My “available balance” 5 minutes later might be $150. But at 10:00 AM Tuesday day I can’t access all $580? 

Or maybe I’m not understanding your reply correctly? 

 
Had two supervisors at Citi talk to me.

2nd one said "they absolutely have to take US currency to pay a debt".  She said she will send an email upstream on this issue. She is unsure of what will/wont happen though.

 
BigSteelThrill said:
So CITI just updated a policy and said it would not allow me/anyone to walk into the bank and pay my own bill with my own cash.

:mellow:

***Yes, I pay most bill online anyway. But I do have some in-bank live transactions.

I know that many banks stopped allowing people to deposit cash into another account (3rd party), which I understand.

But now I cant hand a teller to deposit cash to my account or pay my loan/cc bill. I don't get it. I can hand them a check or money order; so I can walk into 7-11 and get a random a## money order and then deposit it. But I have to utilize a sizeable extra step. I also can stand at the ATM and use (a limited amount of monthly) cash -- but not with a teller.  WTF?

It seems as if they wont allow US Currency to be used with a live teller to pay a debt.  Is that even legal?
Click to expand...
Do you have a regular account (Checking/Savings?) in the bank? If so, can you deposit cash into the account and then pay from that account?

If not, move it to another bank, telling them that's why you are going.

 
Quint said:
BassNBrew said:
Along the same theme of bank stupidity...bank won't allow me to deposit a check and the funds be available for a couple of days.  Bank will allow me to cash check in full inside and then deposit funds in the drive thru, thereby gaining immediate use.
Click to expand...
Pro tip:

if you are depositing a check into your acct, in a brick and mortar location (i.e. not an ATM) and want the funds available the next day, just take a small amount in cash from the transaction. The CSR has to process all cash out transactions every night, so your deposit will be handled that day. 
Click to expand...
Way back when I had a summer job as a teller (80s), the rule was if you had the funds to cover the check, you could cash it evenly; otherwise it was $100.

 
Quint said:
Q and example: 

my (nonFBG) checking account balance is $100. I deposit a check (with a CSR) for $500, and ask for $20 back in cash, at 3:00 pm on Monday.  My “available balance” 5 minutes later might be $150. But at 10:00 AM Tuesday day I can’t access all $580? 

Or maybe I’m not understanding your reply correctly? 
Click to expand...
Sometimes that late in the day (again this is back a ways so 'late in the day' is different now.), but you may be working on tomorrow. We would have to check to make sure we had our funds correct, then open up the next day. Therefore, late Monday and early Tuesday may be the same day. HUGE grain of salt, this was a looong time ago.

 
Quint said:
Pro tip:

if you are depositing a check into your acct, in a brick and mortar location (i.e. not an ATM) and want the funds available the next day, just take a small amount in cash from the transaction. The CSR has to process all cash out transactions every night, so your deposit will be handled that day. 
Click to expand...
Does this kind of stuff vary state to state? Or bank to bank? Over about the last 20 years, every checking account I've had has made the funds from any deposited check available on at most the next business day -- often same day. There hasn't been a "couple days to clear" thing in a long while.

EDIT: and these checking accounts were not all in the same state. Still, next- or same-day availability for deposited-check funds has been the norm. :shrug:

 
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Quint said:
Q and example: 

my (nonFBG) checking account balance is $100. I deposit a check (with a CSR) for $500, and ask for $20 back in cash, at 3:00 pm on Monday.  My “available balance” 5 minutes later might be $150. But at 10:00 AM Tuesday day I can’t access all $580? 

Or maybe I’m not understanding your reply correctly? 
Click to expand...
At my bank (and I believe most local banks), you can do exactly this every time -- no need to take out that $20 in cash.

 
BassNBrew said:
Along the same theme of bank stupidity...bank won't allow me to deposit a check and the funds be available for a couple of days.  Bank will allow me to cash check in full inside and then deposit funds in the drive thru, thereby gaining immediate use.
Click to expand...
Wont the bank only allow you to cash check in full if you have funds to cover it in your account?

 
Funds availability will vary by bank and every bank will have a different way of handling checks. Best answer is to ask your own bank how the make funds available and go with that.

 
parasaurolophus said:
Wont the bank only allow you to cash check in full if you have funds to cover it in your account?
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1 They know me so that’s not an issue. 

2 My sons account is linked to mine and he always has a ton of money. All three kids usually have more liquid funds than me

 
as some may know, i work for a rather large bank.  i would say blame the govt., specifically the BSA/AML that was enhanced after 9/11 via the Patriot Act.

My bank has enhanced KYC guidelines and due diligence, fearful of even the hint of money laundering.

Bottom line, we will try our darndest to find out where you got that $1 from.  We will not open ourselves to getting fined and i am not jeopardizing my job by taking a short cut on seemingly no brainer transactions, regardless of amount.  Cash is the devil.

I'd be happy to further discuss this boring aspect of banking if anyone has questions.

 
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Chemical X said:
as some may know, i work for a rather large bank.  i would say blame the govt., specifically the BSA/AML that was enhanced after 9/11 via the Patriot Act.

My bank has enhanced KYC guidelines and due diligence, fearful of even the hint of money laundering.

Bottom line, we will try our darndest to find out where you got that $1 from.  We will not open ourselves to getting fined and i am not jeopardizing my job by taking a short cut on seemingly no brainer transactions, regardless of amount.  Cash is the devil.

I'd be happy to further discuss this boring aspect of banking if anyone has questions.
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I'm curious what your cash in policy is.  I've tried to find verification online about the OP's claim on Citibank but have been unsuccessful.   I understand the concerns with cash overall, but have trouble understanding why small dollar deposits from account holders would be seen as risky.

 
Chemical X said:
as some may know, i work for a rather large bank.  i would say blame the govt., specifically the BSA/AML that was enhanced after 9/11 via the Patriot Act.

My bank has enhanced KYC guidelines and due diligence, fearful of even the hint of money laundering.

Bottom line, we will try our darndest to find out where you got that $1 from.  We will not open ourselves to getting fined and i am not jeopardizing my job by taking a short cut on seemingly no brainer transactions, regardless of amount.  Cash is the devil.

I'd be happy to further discuss this boring aspect of banking if anyone has questions.
Click to expand...
 with states like CA/CO now dealing with legal rec. cannabis purchases, i could see why an institution wouldn't want to touch any large cash deposit. 

is there a cash deposit amount that triggers a Red Flag for your particular institution? is there an industry standard?

 
Quint said:
 with states like CA/CO now dealing with legal rec. cannabis purchases, i could see why an institution wouldn't want to touch any large cash deposit. 

is there a cash deposit amount that triggers a Red Flag for your particular institution? is there an industry standard?
Click to expand...
Areas within BANK that accept/disburse cash must file a CTR to report a cash transaction of more than $10,000 (including foreign currency transactions) and multiple cash transactions by or on behalf of the same person that aggregate to more than $10,000 in a single business day. CTRs must be filed by the 15th day after the date of the transaction.

This is different from a suspicious activity report, which is the following;

Federal regulation requires SARs to be filed with respect to any of the following:

 Criminal violations involving insider abuse in any amount

 Criminal violations involving or aggregating $5,000 or more when a suspect can be identified

 Criminal violations involving or aggregating $25,000 or more regardless of whether a potential suspect or suspects have been identified

 Transactions conducted or attempted by, at, or through BANK involving or aggregating $5,000 or more, if BANK knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect that the transaction:

o May involve potential Money Laundering or other illegal activity (e.g. terrorism, identity theft, or elder exploitation)

o Is designed to evade the BSA or its implementing regulations (e.g., Structuring and/or providing false identification or other identifying data for CIP verification)

o Has no business or apparent lawful purpose or is not the type of transaction that the particular customer would normally be expected to engage in and the bank knows of no reasonable explanation for the transaction after examining the available facts, including the background and possible purpose of the transaction

Examples of Transactions:

 Deposit or withdrawal

 Transfer between accounts

 Exchange of currency

 Extension of credit

 Purchase or sale of any stock, bond, certificate of deposit or other monetary instrument or investment security

 Any other payment, transfer, or delivery, by, through, or to a bank or a nonbank Entity

 
Quint said:
 with states like CA/CO now dealing with legal rec. cannabis purchases, i could see why an institution wouldn't want to touch any large cash deposit. 

is there a cash deposit amount that triggers a Red Flag for your particular institution? is there an industry standard?
Click to expand...
Regarding the opening post, I know Chase has instituted this policy, but I am not sure about my bank; however, we offer free online bill paying services and other virtual products to eliminate using cash at a branch. 

The issue is federal regulators and how they deem a bank's controls on process.  If you come in and pay a bill with cash, is this suspicious?  It may not seem so to me, but if they deem it suspicious and indicate an institutional failure to file appropriate SARs, well............

 
Chemical X said:
Regarding the opening post, I know Chase has instituted this policy, but I am not sure about my bank; however, we offer free online bill paying services and other virtual products to eliminate using cash at a branch. 

The issue is federal regulators and how they deem a bank's controls on process.  If you come in and pay a bill with cash, is this suspicious?  It may not seem so to me, but if they deem it suspicious and indicate an institutional failure to file appropriate SARs, well............
Click to expand...
better CYA than CotB. 

 
This thread just gave me a 20 year worth of flashbacks of explaining to customers how the particular thing they thought about how banking worked was wrong. My head hurts now. 

 
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I can wear my hat and sunglasses in the drive-thru, but if I step into the bank that way they act like I'm going to rob the place.

 
Chemical X said:
Areas within BANK that accept/disburse cash must file a CTR to report a cash transaction of more than $10,000 (including foreign currency transactions) and multiple cash transactions by or on behalf of the same person that aggregate to more than $10,000 in a single business day. CTRs must be filed by the 15th day after the date of the transaction.

This is different from a suspicious activity report, which is the following;

Federal regulation requires SARs to be filed with respect to any of the following:

 Criminal violations involving insider abuse in any amount

 Criminal violations involving or aggregating $5,000 or more when a suspect can be identified

 Criminal violations involving or aggregating $25,000 or more regardless of whether a potential suspect or suspects have been identified

 Transactions conducted or attempted by, at, or through BANK involving or aggregating $5,000 or more, if BANK knows, suspects, or has reason to suspect that the transaction:

o May involve potential Money Laundering or other illegal activity (e.g. terrorism, identity theft, or elder exploitation)

o Is designed to evade the BSA or its implementing regulations (e.g., Structuring and/or providing false identification or other identifying data for CIP verification)

o Has no business or apparent lawful purpose or is not the type of transaction that the particular customer would normally be expected to engage in and the bank knows of no reasonable explanation for the transaction after examining the available facts, including the background and possible purpose of the transaction

Examples of Transactions:

 Deposit or withdrawal

 Transfer between accounts

 Exchange of currency

 Extension of credit

 Purchase or sale of any stock, bond, certificate of deposit or other monetary instrument or investment security

 Any other payment, transfer, or delivery, by, through, or to a bank or a nonbank Entity
Click to expand...
And yet tens of billions get laundered through the big banks every year.

 
I appreciate the irony of Citibank’s AML group while they’re bribing or attempting to bribe half of the world’s governments.  Then they would ask me as an employee to donate to their PAC.  Lol. 

 
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I used to have to show my photo ID when depositing more that $10k cash for my business ... which I understand. Only happened a few times a year.

Recently my bank changed policy and makes me show my photo ID for ANY cash deposit. WTF? Am I a money laundering suspect when I deposit $300?

So now I just use the night drop box ... even if the bank is open.

I can shove as much cash in there as I want and they have no idea who put it there. ... and I can launder as much money as I want.  :rolleyes:

 
Banks don't like cash because they have to make it available right away to you, when it's not really available to them right away.  

 
Pro Tip:

Look into using a local credit union instead of a bank.  There are many benefits and lower costs usually associated with using credit unions versus banks (most of the time).

 
FYI for all here, it’s still isn’t the banks, as i’ve been dealing with this now, which effects you;

Effective May 11, 2018, new Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) regulations (codified at 31 C.F.R. §§ 1010.230 and 1020.210(b)(5)) (the “New Regulations”) require that covered financial institutions, including banks: 

Enhance their due diligence practices when opening new accounts for legal entity customers by obtaining and maintaining information identifying the beneficial owners of those legal entity customers, and 
 

Amend their anti-money laundering (AML) program requirements related to collecting, monitoring, and maintaining this information. 

 
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culdeus said:
That's not the same. If traveling international there are only a few that offer that. 
Click to expand...
I have an Italian bank account with UniCredit, but I also use Vanguard.  UniCredit aside, you can use your Vanguard funds and link US bank accounts, so, theoretically, you can travel and, online, xfer funds from Vanguard to your US bank account, then use your bank card overseas.  There is about a 48 hoor wait for funds to clear electronically, but much less if you use the wire option.  I keep my money in VWIUX I believe, which is a triple tax free bond fund paying close to 3% div.

 
not being able to take it to the bank should be a g d federal crime take that to the bank bromigos 

 
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