The Commish
Footballguy
Its a restaurant. I think the family only has three including the one going in NSB. It was only one prior to last year
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BBQ Restaurants (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Joe Bryant
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
Yes. Willow's is super interesting. Talented but seems more artist than business guy. He was a topic in talking with Russell Roegel. Definitely talented. BBQ is I guess like lots of other businesses where it takes a blend.
Thank you @Alex P Keaton. What are your donut recommendations in Chicago? And around the country? I'm a fan but not at your level I'm sure. I like Stans and Do-Rite in Chicago.Thx for the Chicago rec Joe. Au Cheval does have great burgers, which makes me want to try out Green St Smoked Meats now. Can’t wait to check it out!!
Tangent: Doughnut Vault is good, but definitely not the best donuts in Chicago. I feel about donuts similarly to how you feel about BBQ. It’s an obsession. It’s a lifestyle for me. My kids say “the only reason dad likes to run is so he can eat donuts without gaining weight.”
Big fan of Blue Star in Oregon. VooDoo is hugely over rated in my opinion.
My favorite in the country is Spaldings in Lexington Kentucky. Ralphs in Cookeville, TN is great too.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Snow's is worth it for the pilgrammage aspect alone. And the food is very good. Just not on the level of the places using prime beef.Man after watching her on A Chef's Table BBQ I put Snow on my list to get to in the next two years. Personally, I think Franklin's is way over hyped. I get it's a hot take but my BBQ taste is not traditional. I am not a fan of any single regional style. I still remember having all of Franklin's Q at a conference in Austin. Someone ordered a pickup of a ton of everything he has and I was really disappointed after eating. We had the brisket, ribs, pork, turkey and sausage. Whole lot of meh for me.
When I am smoking I tend to do things a bit twisted seasoning wise for my Q and I guess that's why I don't like typical BBQ from any single region.
With you @BigJohn
For as close as most will get to your dream scenario, you may like this if you haven't seen it.
Working 24 Hours at the Best BBQ in the World
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
For sure. I had a small group with me one evening at Shady Acres when his trailer was still there. I ordered a couple pounds of everything and all sides and it kind of put him into a tailspin. I suspect the quick popularity he found soon after that drove him away.
My take is unless you had something go crazy with your order, if you didn't like Franklin, you'll hate Snows.
When I am smoking I tend to do things a bit twisted seasoning wise for my Q and I guess that's why I don't like typical BBQ from any single region.
Franklin is easily 50% better in every aspect except for beans and bread which are the same bland thing at both.
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BUT, food isn't 100% of a restaurant. Snow's story is off the charts ridiculously good. No way to deny that.
If Corkscrew or Cattleack was served in Snows atmosphere, it'd be 2x the best place in the world. If Corkscrew or Cattleack served Snow's food, nobody would care.
I'm not sure where the balance is. But it's in there somewhere.
What's not in question is Tootsie is awesome.
If Corkscrew or Cattleack was served in Snows atmosphere, it'd be 2x the best place in the world. If Corkscrew or Cattleack served Snow's food, nobody would care.
I'm not sure where the balance is. But it's in there somewhere.
What's not in question is Tootsie is awesome.
It's brutal business. I've looked at the business side of it a lot and it's ridiculously bad. Even the best restaurants are tough from the business side. And BBQ to me is easily the worst of the bunch from a business perspective. People get into BBQ because they love it. I think a lot, like me, love the alchemy part I mentioned above. It's art plus business and that's tough for lots of people. Probably most.
BigJohn
Footballguy
That video is where my idea was born. In all honesty, I have actually considered starting a BBQ blog or podcast just to hopefully be put into a place where this type of arrangement could be possible.
Do you cook yourself now?
My recommendation would be guy an offset smoker and just get after it. Even the stuff you make that's not good will be better than 90% of BBQ anyone not from Texas has had.
And you'll get better as you go.
I'd buy MasterClass just for the Aaron Franklin course and you'll be off and running.
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And you're probably already on this but you can get more here in a few days than you'd get in a month of traveling. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC556b-Cl0Fp02iMc96yoJbg
BigJohn
Footballguy
Yeah. I've been cooking myself for years. I've watched Franklin's videos so many times just for the purity of them. I've used his brisket method ever since I went to Austin in 2019. I've cooked it for family at my 40th birthday and a company Christmas party for about 150 people. Each time having multitudes of people telling me it was the best brisket they've ever had. I've competed a bit around SW Ohio a bit. I'm hoping to start competing heavier in the next year or so.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
TX seems to have the best BBQ but I don’t know if that is true. KC has some pretty damn good food. STL does ok as well. I like NC style sauce most though.
Brony
Footballguy
I've been to every donut place in Chicago - I go with Firecakes, though doughnut vault is great shtick to experience once.
At Green Street meats, got to get the ribs and the corn elotes side. I'm usually not high on rubs, but green streets' is magical.
Awesome. I'd say your next step then might be a BBQ school. I did Myron Mixon's years ago and it was helpful.
Personally, I thought I wanted to do contests but now have zero interest. It's a completely different game of guessing what the judges want and presenting something to their desires. It's totally different than making BBQ for others.
massraider
Footballguy
I love spicy sausage. Good venison sausage is killer.
Will try any kind. Well, almost.
I am not interested in any sausage with cheese in it.
massraider
Footballguy
When I think of every BBQ/smoker related memory I have, and I watch those BBQ contest shows, or documentary style YouTube videos of BBQ competitions, it looks awful. Just awful.
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
Has @tipsy mcstagger and @icon weighed in here? The two FBG's I've actually met seem to know quite a bit about the Q.
whoknew
Footballguy
I don't know what its made of - maybe a mix of pork and beef - but this is the sausage from City Market in Luling. The casing is definitely snappy. The meat inside is kind of loosely held together. And its the best sausage I've ever had.
Major
Footballguy
That's a great quote and I agree. Serve my meat dry and let me try it on its own. Then I dip or apply sauce when I feel. I like options. We need a best BBQ sauce thread just for Joe.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
The only time I ever had their sausage it was well past it's prime. But it's a coarse grind "hot guts" style sausage. Usually beef, trimmings. Coarse grind, no fillers, hog casing, simple spices S&P and red pepper. Similar to City Market in Giddings. Love that style of sausage.
Beef Ravioli
Footballguy
I’ve been to SAW’s twice and agree - outstanding! We make it a point to stop if we are going through Birmingham.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I won't lie. I've eaten Bill Miller's Bar-B-Q more than 15 times. It's slightly better than a Marie Callendar TV dinner.
Judge Smails
Footballguy
I was going to say the same thing. To me the coarseness of the grind matters. Good snap. Great ingredients. The cheese and jalapeño versions are way overdone. Don’t care for them at all.
That's my favorite style too. Like BBQ, the sausage served in BBQ spots is an underdog story. It mostly exists because it's a way to use the scrap trimmings. Plus the Czech / German influence in Central Texas where folks made stuff that was familiar to home. It's why kolaches are so big in central Texas.
To do brisket right, you trim a LOT before you cook. You can throw that in the trash or make tallow candles or use it for sausage. Sausage is way better.
I too am not a big fan of all the crazy sausage creations.
culdeus
Footballguy
Prior to Texas Monthly they were more known for ham steaks and turkey than brisket.
Her setup cooking over a ground fire is more similar to a West Texas style and went out of favor a long time ago as it's a huge pain in the ###.
The only other place that will still (sometimes) cook over ground fire that isn't surrounded by dust is Pecan Lodge, but there are surely others that still make an attempt.
I see the bigger problem in Texas is there is a lot of supply now. And there's limited demand for 18/pound brisket sliced. I haven't seen what Franklin is asking lately but 21-24 was the range I've heard lately. That's nearly prime rib-eye at the store territory.
Major
Footballguy
I look forward to trying it. And for all the hate Salt Lick gets from purists, I'll take their sauce and Driftwood ambience over just about any BBQ place in the world. I can't think of a more beautiful scene to enjoy all the Q you can handle and whatever drinks you decide to bring. It really is an experience on a beautiful day.
Much of what they do is the normal offset indirect cooking style like most everyone in Texas uses. https://youtu.be/IieZmqqfjE0
They do use some direct cooking burning coals and shoveling under the pork steaks and finishing the briskets in the box pits. Good picture here around the 2:20 mark. https://youtu.be/y0WUHRAGJ6s
Agreed for sure that's a more labor intensive way. But it's how all real North Carolina bbq is cooked. That's how they cook everything at Skylight Inn and Buxton Hall.
This is another well done video from Frank Pinello of Brooklyn Pizza fame. https://youtu.be/rP86Bby9Y9M
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I wonder about that too. At some point, there is a limit for people. Not sure where that is.
I think you'll see it evolving to where Brisket is the "other" item on the menu you only get for something special as it's so expensive.
And again, the ironic thing is even for $22 a pound brisket, the pizza guy across the street is wildly more profitable.
Another really great BBQ spot that just missed out on my list is Southern Soul Barbecue in St. Simon's Island, GA.
They're good enough that they get over my mostly ironclad rule that I'll dismiss any restaurant that tries to tell me how soulful or divey or authentic they are in their name.
They're good enough that they get over my mostly ironclad rule that I'll dismiss any restaurant that tries to tell me how soulful or divey or authentic they are in their name.
Agreed. When you walk in the door at Salt Lick and are greeted by this, it's beautiful.
Then you realize it's for show and 95% of the meat is churned out in the gas powered ovens with a burning log for flavor in the back and you feel duped. Salt Lick would fit perfectly in Nashville.
ChiefD
Footballguy
Oh, come on now.
I love these threads because everyone's personal biases come out - and that's ok. BBQ is especially sensitive because everyone defends their local BBQ to the core.
For me, I like your posts about how BBQ is as much about the experience as it is the food. I like all BBQ - to me the hunt for a BBQ spot, the food, the different people that eat there, the different techniques - all of that adds to the romance of eating BBQ.
Now, to address your above post:
1. The Z-Man sandwich is a gift from the Gods. And I agree that on the surface is doesn't fit the criteria of BBQ in the traditional sense. But Joe's had the guts to try it, and that sandwich is a damn good sandwich. For those of us that eat a lot of BBQ, it's just something different. And that's ok too. But man, it's a good sandwich.
2. I disagree that Kansas City BBQ needs a lot of sauce. I'm sorry, I just do. There are some BBQ restaurants here that do use a lot of sauce unnecessarily, but then again we have a TON of BBQ places here. But a lot of places here do not need the sauce.
But good BBQ sauce is an art on it's own. I like a good sauce from time to time.
I believe in good BBQ everywhere. I think we can all agree that Texas is the king of the brisket. But what makes Kansas City BBQ great is the fact that Kansas City does everything well in all meats: ribs, brisket, pulled pork, chicken, sausage.
Man, I'm hungry now. Love this thread.
Major
Footballguy
Haha. I didn't know that. I go for the outdoor seating, trees and views of the hilltop. It's serviceable BBQ and always the place I take friends from NYC and Boston for an experience b/c quite frankly they'd be impressed with anything remotely edible. Only word of advice is go midweek. Not worth the lines. Folks can get an idea here: https://www.dave-eats.com/blog/a-classic-texas-barbeque-spot-salt-lick-bbq-review-driftwood-tx
100%.Major said:
I can't think of many spots better to introduce a non Texan to Texas.
The vibe and shade trees and atmosphere screams Texas. So good.
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
Pretty sure Cooper's, at least in Llano still cooks W. Texas style. And Hard 8 in NTX. As Joe mentioned that style isn't really used with low and slow items though, even at those places.culdeus said:
Ron Swanson
Footballguy
BBQ sauce and irony go hand in hand. Living in Florida I typically will provide sauce when I cook for large groups. It's far easier than having the conversation ad nauseum.Joe Bryant said:
One time, I decided to offer a whole bunch of sauces as options. So I ordered some Rudy's, Franklin's Espresso, and Mueller's..probably others that I don't even recall at this point. Now, having been to Mueller's more than any other spot I couldn't even recall ever seeing a sauce there. I think there maybe used to be a pot of an au jus type of thing many years ago but I sure don't see sauce there regularly. But, they bottle one. It has kind of a french onion/butter flavor to it.
The results were hilarious. Mueller's sauce was the runaway winner with my crowd. They universally hated Franklin's espresso sauce, and not surprisingly Rudy's was too spicy for their delicate palates.
So, maybe I've missed it all these years but I'm pretty sure the wining sauce came from a place that doesn't even provide it in their restaurant (and has no need to).
Exactly right.
In Texas, it's often more associated with grilling or campfire type cooking. Pork Steaks and Beef Steak type stuff.
In North Carolina, it's almost always how you see whole hog cooked.
North Carolina is second to Texas for how they care about BBQ.
And for NC, Sam Jones is king. An informative video here https://youtu.be/GKwt1yxnJoo
The shoveling coals business is a BIG deal to these folks. They will say the way Texans cook is crude. They'll call it "cooking in your chimney". And I'm sure there is truth there. Cooking over coals gives a much cleaner smoke. It's also wildly inefficient. Burning wood down to coals in a burn barrel means a TON of the heat released by the fire goes straight up the chimney and isn't used at all in the process. But they'll say it's better.
Having had the pleasure of eating at Skylight Inn, he might have a case.
Rodney Scott is the South Carolina version of Sam Jones. He's a rock star too. Good video on what they do here https://youtu.be/39ii9LvnDoE
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Little Miss BBQ in Phoenix deserves a mention in here. The fatty brisket is exceptional. They also have specials on Thursdays (pastrami) and Friday/Saturday (beef ribs) that keep me going back almost exclusively on those 3 days.
whoknew
Footballguy
Mueller's beef ribs are so damn good. John Mueller has a relatively new place up in Georgetown but I haven't been. He's always put out great barbecue, though. So I'm sure its great.
The Mueller family is super interesting. John is definitely the wilder one. He was in ICU last week, have you heard anything more?
