Beanie Wells mad about role (1 Viewer)

[grouse]

"I'm not really worried about the quarterback situation. I'm worried about my situation," Beanie Wells told The Arizona Republic on Monday.

This the quote that stuck out to me.It could be just frustration, but it sure doesn't sound like he gives a damn about how his team is doing overall.

Perhaps, or maybe Wells' recognizes that neither Hall nor Anderson are capable of winning games for the Cards through the air. And he's wondering why his coaches don't see it that way too.

 

[Easy Six]

"Well, Beanie, I was thinking about how every time you carry the ball I'm fairly certain you're either going to fumble or break something."

The flaw in this line of thinking is that Hightower has 7 fumbles in the last two years to Wells' 4.

The flaws in this line of thinking are:1. that it doesn't address the second half of the sentence; and2. Hightower has less carries than Wells since Wells returned from injury. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't. I'm saying (tongue-in-cheek) that if he wants to call out the coaching staff he needs to stop fumbling and stay on the field.

 

[MDSkinner]

Not to quibble, but it's 7 fumbles with 6 lost for Hightower.

Since this year is a work in progress, let's look at last year's stats:

Hightower: 211 touches (since he had 63 reception) 5 fumbles, 4 lost - 1 fumble per 42.2

Wells: 188 touches (12 receptions) 4 fumbles, 3 lost - 1 fumble per 47

Why on earth would we want to discount this years stats? The most recent most relevant stats? I would be more inclined to discount last years stats than this years since it is CLEARLY a different team without a HOF QB playing, but to discount this years because it is still in progress? No logic there at all.The biggest argument against Beanie right now is the fact that clearly the coaching staff like THT better and they see both of them in practice way more than any of us ever could.

 

[guderian]

"Well, Beanie, I was thinking about how every time you carry the ball I'm fairly certain you're either going to fumble or break something."

The flaw in this line of thinking is that Hightower has 7 fumbles in the last two years to Wells' 4.

The flaws in this line of thinking are:1. that it doesn't address the second half of the sentence; and2. Hightower has less carries than Wells since Wells returned from injury. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't. I'm saying (tongue-in-cheek) that if he wants to call out the coaching staff he needs to stop fumbling and stay on the field.

So we have to ignore the incorrect part of your statement because part of it may be correct???The facts don't back up your assertion that Beanie is more fumble prone than their alternatives. As for the injury bit, Wells played in all 16 games last year--he missed two this year. I'd hardly call that statistically significant proof of any injury proneness.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Beanie should be upset. He's an elite talent that isn't being used as one. When the passing game is playing as poorly as it has been this season I don't understand why Whisenhunt isn't trying to lean more on his running game to pick up the slack. 5 carries for a back like Beanie is unacceptable regardless of ball security issues. AP has had cases of ball security issues too but you don't see the Vikings shying away from giving him the ball.

Wells has never shown the ability to be a week in and week out stud like AP....... there is a big difference.I agree they need to pound it more, but maybe Wells just doesn't show the staff enough in all phases of the game.

The morons that make up the Cardinals coaching staff don't give him the opportunity to show that he can (or can't) do that though yet they're somehow in love with Tim Hightower. If they don't want to use Beanie like a starting RB then why waste a 1st round pick on him? Based on the second half of last season Beanie sure seemed like a stud RB and last week when he was supposedly in line for a small role he showed no ill-effects and outplayed the team's hand picked starter and yet this week he's rewarded with a 1st quarter sit down and 5 lousy carries.

I'm a Beanie owner as well, but I do think the coaching staff deserves some benefit of the doubt - they have turned around a moribound franchise and made them quite successful.

 

[guderian]

Not to quibble, but it's 7 fumbles with 6 lost for Hightower.

Since this year is a work in progress, let's look at last year's stats:

Hightower: 211 touches (since he had 63 reception) 5 fumbles, 4 lost - 1 fumble per 42.2

Wells: 188 touches (12 receptions) 4 fumbles, 3 lost - 1 fumble per 47

Why on earth would we want to discount this years stats? The most recent most relevant stats? I would be more inclined to discount last years stats than this years since it is CLEARLY a different team without a HOF QB playing, but to discount this years because it is still in progress? No logic there at all.The biggest argument against Beanie right now is the fact that clearly the coaching staff like THT better and they see both of them in practice way more than any of us ever could.

This is the same coaching staff that felt comfortable with Leinart and Anderson.

 

[Easy Six]

Not to quibble, but it's 7 fumbles with 6 lost for Hightower.

Since this year is a work in progress, let's look at last year's stats:

Hightower: 211 touches (since he had 63 reception) 5 fumbles, 4 lost - 1 fumble per 42.2

Wells: 188 touches (12 receptions) 4 fumbles, 3 lost - 1 fumble per 47

Why on earth would we want to discount this years stats? The most recent most relevant stats? I would be more inclined to discount last years stats than this years since it is CLEARLY a different team without a HOF QB playing, but to discount this years because it is still in progress? No logic there at all.

Because Beanie only has 19 carries this year. I feel like that's a good reason. But okay, if we just want to go with this year's stats and discount last year's, we can do that.I'll rewrite it:

"Well, Beanie, I was thinking about how Tim is averaging over a half yard per carry more than you are and you've been hurt all season."

The biggest argument against Beanie right now is the fact that clearly the coaching staff like THT better and they see both of them in practice way more than any of us ever could.

The biggest argument against Beanie is that the Arizona offense is going to be shuttling QBs in and out all season and needs some kind of stability in the backfield - and Beanie hasn't yet shown that he's capable of staying on the field and leading like a vet.

 

[Easy Six]

"Well, Beanie, I was thinking about how every time you carry the ball I'm fairly certain you're either going to fumble or break something."

The flaw in this line of thinking is that Hightower has 7 fumbles in the last two years to Wells' 4.

The flaws in this line of thinking are:1. that it doesn't address the second half of the sentence; and2. Hightower has less carries than Wells since Wells returned from injury. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't. I'm saying (tongue-in-cheek) that if he wants to call out the coaching staff he needs to stop fumbling and stay on the field.

So we have to ignore the incorrect part of your statement because part of it may be correct???The facts don't back up your assertion that Beanie is more fumble prone than their alternatives. As for the injury bit, Wells played in all 16 games last year--he missed two this year. I'd hardly call that statistically significant proof of any injury proneness.

The first part of my sentence isn't "incorrect" - he has fumbled, at an extremely similar rate to Hightower. Look, I'm not arguing that Tim Hightower should be the only back getting carries. I'm arguing that he and Wells are extremely similar in production, and should be splitting carries, just like they are. Ride the hot hand. Wells and his supporters are the ones arguing that there's a huge ability gap - and that Wells is the winner. I'm making no such claims about Hightower.

 

[grouse]

All of this debate seems to be dancing around the issue of what Beanie Wells' fantasy value really is going forward. I tried to get to the bottom of this in another thread from yesterday. Are most envisioning Beanie's fantasy value to stay in the toilet for much of the year due to the lacklustre QB situation and Hightower's persistent role? Or, is Wells a decent buy-low candidate who will eventually claim the majority of the carries and heat up in the 2nd of the season? Ironically, with so much talk about fumbles between Hightower / Wells, it actually may come down to the 'next fumble' to determine which of these guys starts getting most of the work going forward.

 

[Easy Six]

All of this debate seems to be dancing around the issue of what Beanie Wells' fantasy value really is going forward. I tried to get to the bottom of this in another thread from yesterday. Are most envisioning Beanie's fantasy value to stay in the toilet for much of the year due to the lacklustre QB situation and Hightower's persistent role? Or, is Wells a decent buy-low candidate who will eventually claim the majority of the carries and heat up in the 2nd of the season? Ironically, with so much talk about fumbles between Hightower / Wells, it actually may come down to the 'next fumble' to determine which of these guys starts getting most of the work going forward.

I think if the Cardinals settle on a QB and feel comfortable with him, Beanie will be taking the majority of the carries from that point on, but Hightower will still be on the field for the 60/40 split. If they don't, I expect things to continue as they have with Hightower providing veteran leadership in the backfield and getting the 60% share.

 

[MDSkinner]

Because Beanie only has 19 carries this year. I feel like that's a good reason. But okay, if we just want to go with this year's stats and discount last year's, we can do that.I'll rewrite it:"Well, Beanie, I was thinking about how Tim is averaging over a half yard per carry more than you are and you've been hurt all season."

The biggest argument against Beanie is that the Arizona offense is going to be shuttling QBs in and out all season and needs some kind of stability in the backfield - and Beanie hasn't yet shown that he's capable of staying on the field.

Much better arguments here than let's throw out this years stats to show that Beanie is almost as much of a fumbler as THT. I agree they do need some stability and I think it can easily be argued that THT may be able to bring that for them and it seems that the coaching staff (who as someone noted above may be a very questionable group) agrees with you. I also think that a half yard per carry more is clearly a hard statistic that can easily be used in THT's favor, and the fact that he has been hurt this season (and therefore missing reps with the first team that THT has gotten) is clearly against Beanie. All very reasonable here.Clearly many here think Beanie is a better RB than THT. The reasons would be that they think he is more explosive, fumbles less and can potentially have a bigger impact on the offense than THT (I am sure there are many other reasons but for now this is a good start). From the things that you have said, you feel that THT is a better RB because he is more of a stabilizing force on an offense that is shaky at best, he seems to be able to stay healthy more giving him way more experience in this offense this year and because he has a half a yard more per carry than Beanie. Both sides of this argument seem pretty legit to me, but one thing that really stands out with this team is how bad the Cards have looked this year. Could Beanie help that or hurt that? I would probably take the risk (and it is a risk/reward scenario) if I were the coaching staff, but I can see why a person like you would not.

 

[Easy Six]

Because Beanie only has 19 carries this year. I feel like that's a good reason. But okay, if we just want to go with this year's stats and discount last year's, we can do that.I'll rewrite it:"Well, Beanie, I was thinking about how Tim is averaging over a half yard per carry more than you are and you've been hurt all season."

The biggest argument against Beanie is that the Arizona offense is going to be shuttling QBs in and out all season and needs some kind of stability in the backfield - and Beanie hasn't yet shown that he's capable of staying on the field.

Much better arguments here than let's throw out this years stats to show that Beanie is almost as much of a fumbler as THT. I agree they do need some stability and I think it can easily be argued that THT may be able to bring that for them and it seems that the coaching staff (who as someone noted above may be a very questionable group) agrees with you. I also think that a half yard per carry more is clearly a hard statistic that can easily be used in THT's favor, and the fact that he has been hurt this season (and therefore missing reps with the first team that THT has gotten) is clearly against Beanie. All very reasonable here.Clearly many here think Beanie is a better RB than THT. The reasons would be that they think he is more explosive, fumbles less and can potentially have a bigger impact on the offense than THT (I am sure there are many other reasons but for now this is a good start). From the things that you have said, you feel that THT is a better RB because he is more of a stabilizing force on an offense that is shaky at best, he seems to be able to stay healthy more giving him way more experience in this offense this year and because he has a half a yard more per carry than Beanie. Both sides of this argument seem pretty legit to me, but one thing that really stands out with this team is how bad the Cards have looked this year. Could Beanie help that or hurt that? I would probably take the risk (and it is a risk/reward scenario) if I were the coaching staff, but I can see why a person like you would not.

I don't even think Hightower's better. But until Beanie shows that HE'S better, he's got no business questioning the coaching decision. Hence the original post.

 

[MDSkinner]

I don't even think Hightower's better. But until Beanie shows that HE'S better, he's got no business questioning the coaching decision. Hence the original post.

There is the catch-22. He can't show he is better until he is given that opportunity, which is why he complained in the first place.But I do agree, at this point in his career he has certainly earned nothing, and I can not imagine the coaches taking his complaints to heart very much.

 

[Easy Six]

I don't even think Hightower's better. But until Beanie shows that HE'S better, he's got no business questioning the coaching decision. Hence the original post.

There is the catch-22. He can't show he is better until he is given that opportunity, which is why he complained in the first place.But I do agree, at this point in his career he has certainly earned nothing, and I can not imagine the coaches taking his complaints to heart very much.

Agreed that the coaches are probably shaking their heads. As far as opportunity, he had 30 more carries than Pierre Thomas last year. Thomas showed that you can't keep him off the field. Wells didn't. He's had plenty of opportunity to show that he's an Adrian Peterson or a LaDanian Tomlinson, and he's not even a Pierre Thomas.

 

[guderian]

"Well, Beanie, I was thinking about how every time you carry the ball I'm fairly certain you're either going to fumble or break something."

The flaw in this line of thinking is that Hightower has 7 fumbles in the last two years to Wells' 4.

The flaws in this line of thinking are:1. that it doesn't address the second half of the sentence; and2. Hightower has less carries than Wells since Wells returned from injury. I'm not arguing that he shouldn't. I'm saying (tongue-in-cheek) that if he wants to call out the coaching staff he needs to stop fumbling and stay on the field.

So we have to ignore the incorrect part of your statement because part of it may be correct???The facts don't back up your assertion that Beanie is more fumble prone than their alternatives. As for the injury bit, Wells played in all 16 games last year--he missed two this year. I'd hardly call that statistically significant proof of any injury proneness.

The first part of my sentence isn't "incorrect" - he has fumbled, at an extremely similar rate to Hightower. Look, I'm not arguing that Tim Hightower should be the only back getting carries. I'm arguing that he and Wells are extremely similar in production, and should be splitting carries, just like they are. Ride the hot hand. Wells and his supporters are the ones arguing that there's a huge ability gap - and that Wells is the winner. I'm making no such claims about Hightower.

He had a fumbling issue during the early part of his rookie year, but he's fumbled once since game 7 of last year whereas Hightower has fumbled 5 times since then. Now, you're arguing that they have similar production and should split carries, but earlier you were arguing that Wells' fumbling and injury proneness should keep him on the bench.

 

[guderian]

I don't even think Hightower's better. But until Beanie shows that HE'S better, he's got no business questioning the coaching decision. Hence the original post.

There is the catch-22. He can't show he is better until he is given that opportunity, which is why he complained in the first place.But I do agree, at this point in his career he has certainly earned nothing, and I can not imagine the coaches taking his complaints to heart very much.

Agreed that the coaches are probably shaking their heads. As far as opportunity, he had 30 more carries than Pierre Thomas last year. Thomas showed that you can't keep him off the field. Wells didn't. He's had plenty of opportunity to show that he's an Adrian Peterson or a LaDanian Tomlinson, and he's not even a Pierre Thomas.

So he has to average 5.4 yards a carry like Pierre Thomas to prove that he deserves to be on the field?In the last 8 games last year, when they jacked up his number of touches to 13 from 9 he responded with 483 rushing yards (4.6 ypc), 126 receiving yards, 6 TDs and 1 fumble.

 

[Easy Six]

He had a fumbling issue during the early part of his rookie year, but he's fumbled once since game 7 of last year whereas Hightower has fumbled 5 times since then. Now, you're arguing that they have similar production and should split carries, but earlier you were arguing that Wells' fumbling and injury proneness should keep him on the bench.

My argument is, was, and ever will be "Beanie hasn't shown any reason whatsoever that he should be preferred so much to Hightower that it should stop the RBBC that's going on. Beanie fumbles and is injury-prone." I never said that his fumbling and injury-proneness should keep him on the bench, I said that if he's wondering what the coach is thinking in making this a RBBC (note that Wells will not be "on the bench" in a RBBC, but rather on the field for about half the time), that what the coach is probably thinking is that Beanie coughs up the rock and gets nicked up a lot.Also, I realize it isn't shown in the season stats, but Beanie fumbled in the pre-season when given the opportunity. His timing on his screw-ups is unbelievably bad.

 

[Easy Six]

I don't even think Hightower's better. But until Beanie shows that HE'S better, he's got no business questioning the coaching decision. Hence the original post.

There is the catch-22. He can't show he is better until he is given that opportunity, which is why he complained in the first place.But I do agree, at this point in his career he has certainly earned nothing, and I can not imagine the coaches taking his complaints to heart very much.

Agreed that the coaches are probably shaking their heads. As far as opportunity, he had 30 more carries than Pierre Thomas last year. Thomas showed that you can't keep him off the field. Wells didn't. He's had plenty of opportunity to show that he's an Adrian Peterson or a LaDanian Tomlinson, and he's not even a Pierre Thomas.

So he has to average 5.4 yards a carry like Pierre Thomas to prove that he deserves to be on the field?In the last 8 games last year, when they jacked up his number of touches to 13 from 9 he responded with 483 rushing yards (4.6 ypc), 126 receiving yards, 6 TDs and 1 fumble.

If Hightower's averaging 5.5 yards per carry this year - and he is - then yes, he needs to average around that to even start asking "why am I sharing the backfield with this guy?" If he wants "feature back" carries, then he needs to outperform the other guy. Why is that hard to understand?

 

[Touchdown There]

Well, I mean, he is right tho...

Nope. He is not right. Hightower has earned his playing time. Beanie has not earned anything. I do not own Hightower or Beanie, but if you are taking Beanie's side on this you are clearly a Beanie FF owner. He needs to earn playing time. If Beanie thinks this sort of action will earn him more playing time he is wrong. It would set an example to all other players that whining to the press is the way to get playing time. The coaches now have to slap his hand and bench him, or they lose control of the locker room.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

If Hightower's averaging 5.5 yards per carry this year - and he is - then yes, he needs to average around that to even start asking "why am I sharing the backfield with this guy?" If he wants "feature back" carries, then he needs to outperform the other guy. Why is that hard to understand?

It's difficult to compare ypc against different teams. Beanie hasn't gotten to play the Rams yet. Hightower has the 80 yard run this season and has been bad outside of that.Purely from a YPC standpoint Beanie has beaten out Hightower in both games they both played in this year. Dating back to last year, the two have both received carries in 20 games. Beanie had a higher ypc in 13 of those games, with Hightower having a higher YPC in 6 of them (they tied 3 times).

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Nope. He is not right. Hightower has earned his playing time. Beanie has not earned anything. I do not own Hightower or Beanie, but if you are taking Beanie's side on this you are clearly a Beanie FF owner. He needs to earn playing time. If Beanie thinks this sort of action will earn him more playing time he is wrong. It would set an example to all other players that whining to the press is the way to get playing time. The coaches now have to slap his hand and bench him, or they lose control of the locker room.

How can Beanie earn it if he's not given a chance to?And you know, he was given a chance to last year, and he DID earn it. When given a bigger piece of the load down the stretch last season Beanie produced better than Hightower has over any similar stretch of his entire career.

Hightower was fine two years ago when Warner was chucking the ball around for 350 yards per game and all they needed out of their running back was a mediocre plodder who could run through the holes that were there and fall over when he should fall over. They don't have that anymore, and a playmaker at running back who can move the chains and create plays on his own is exactly what they need. Can Beanie stand up to the punishment? Maybe not, but you may as well give it a shot because one thing we DO know is that this team is going absolutely nowhere in its current state with the spectacularly mediocre Hightower as the primary back.

 

[Tau837]

I don't even think Hightower's better. But until Beanie shows that HE'S better, he's got no business questioning the coaching decision. Hence the original post.

There is the catch-22. He can't show he is better until he is given that opportunity, which is why he complained in the first place.But I do agree, at this point in his career he has certainly earned nothing, and I can not imagine the coaches taking his complaints to heart very much.

He is given the opportunity every time they practice. It isn't just games when players earn playing time.

 

[Frot]

Beanie should be upset. He's an elite talent that isn't being used as one. When the passing game is playing as poorly as it has been this season I don't understand why Whisenhunt isn't trying to lean more on his running game to pick up the slack. 5 carries for a back like Beanie is unacceptable regardless of ball security issues. AP has had cases of ball security issues too but you don't see the Vikings shying away from giving him the ball.

Adrian Peterson averaged 5.6 ypc, for over 1,300 yards rushing, and set the single game rushing record for the NFL his rookie year. These two are just not comparable.

Talent wise they are. How they are used, they aren't though.I'd still give the edge to Peterson, but the gap isn't nearly as big as you seem to think it is.

that thing you just saw flying by your ear was your credibility on its way out the door.Don't sweat it though, you can live a long time without it.

 

[Easy Six]

Nope. He is not right. Hightower has earned his playing time. Beanie has not earned anything. I do not own Hightower or Beanie, but if you are taking Beanie's side on this you are clearly a Beanie FF owner. He needs to earn playing time. If Beanie thinks this sort of action will earn him more playing time he is wrong. It would set an example to all other players that whining to the press is the way to get playing time. The coaches now have to slap his hand and bench him, or they lose control of the locker room.

How can Beanie earn it if he's not given a chance to?And you know, he was given a chance to last year, and he DID earn it. When given a bigger piece of the load down the stretch last season Beanie produced better than Hightower has over any similar stretch of his entire career.

Hightower was fine two years ago when Warner was chucking the ball around for 350 yards per game and all they needed out of their running back was a mediocre plodder who could run through the holes that were there and fall over when he should fall over. They don't have that anymore, and a playmaker at running back who can move the chains and create plays on his own is exactly what they need. Can Beanie stand up to the punishment? Maybe not, but you may as well give it a shot because one thing we DO know is that this team is going absolutely nowhere in its current state with the spectacularly mediocre Hightower as the primary back.

I assume you're talking about week 13-17 last year, because up until that point Hightower was still regularly getting double-digit carries. Assuming that's what you mean:13/28 MIN

15/79 SF

17/110 DET

17/68 STL

6/19 GB

Color me unimpressed. Now, he was the "dominant" RB from a fantasy standpoint for much longer than that - but at the time, he was splitting carries with Hightower, both getting at or around double-digit carries. Which sounds like it's about what should be done from now on if it was working.

Even if that isn't the stretch you're talking about... the guy has had one 100-yard rushing game in his career. He's going to have to do better than that before he gets "feature back" status.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

the guy has had one 100-yard rushing game in his career. He's going to have to do better than that before he gets "feature back" status.

So you're saying he needs to rush for 100 yards on 5 carries multiple times before getting the feature back role?Beanie has only rushed for 100 yards once, but he's also never had more than 17 carries in a game. You know how many times Adrian Peterson has rushed for 100 yards on 17 or fewer carries over the last three years? Zero.

He can't prove anything until he's given the chance. He certainly looks the part. Give him 22 carries a game for two months and see how it goes. If he sucks or gets hurt then you're no worse off then you are now, since this team clearly isn't going anywhere in its current state anyway. And the upside is that he plays as good as it looks like he can and this actually becomes a real football team.

 

[cvnpoka]

Look, its clear to me that Wells is the more talented RB than Hightower. Nobody is arguing that point. But it is clear, so far in Wells' career, that he can't handle the full load due to being injury prone. So no matter how much Beanie whines, Hightower is going to see significant action. Wells is going to need to show some durability for an extended period of time before he's going to get featured back amount of carries, say 20 a game.

The problem that I see is why AZ doesn't run the ball a lot more. AZ should be running the ball 25+ times a game. I don't understand why Wells and Hightower can't get 10-15 carries each.

it sounds to me that everyone itt is, indeed, arguing tht>>beanie, esp with an assortment of cherrypicked stats and fallacies. im curious what hightower did to earn his spot after his 2.8ypc prior to wells showing up, and then getting outplayed by wells all last yr. and no, i dont own wells bc i was worried about this very situation.

 

[cvnpoka]

the guy has had one 100-yard rushing game in his career. He's going to have to do better than that before he gets "feature back" status.

this was the exactly how many 100 yard games (nice selective endpoint btw) hightower had when he was given the lead roll. along with a 2.8 ypc to boot. guess what else? last yr wells and hightower each had exactly 1 such game as well.

 

[Easy Six]

Look, its clear to me that Wells is the more talented RB than Hightower. Nobody is arguing that point. But it is clear, so far in Wells' career, that he can't handle the full load due to being injury prone. So no matter how much Beanie whines, Hightower is going to see significant action. Wells is going to need to show some durability for an extended period of time before he's going to get featured back amount of carries, say 20 a game.

The problem that I see is why AZ doesn't run the ball a lot more. AZ should be running the ball 25+ times a game. I don't understand why Wells and Hightower can't get 10-15 carries each.

it sounds to me that everyone itt is, indeed, arguing tht>>beanie, esp with an assortment of cherrypicked stats and fallacies. im curious what hightower did to earn his spot after his 2.8ypc prior to wells showing up, and then getting outplayed by wells all last yr. and no, i dont own wells bc i was worried about this very situation.

The you're reading it incorrectly. No one thinks Hightower should be a featured back in this offense. But right now, neither should Wells. Which is what he's arguing for.

 

[Easy Six]

the guy has had one 100-yard rushing game in his career. He's going to have to do better than that before he gets "feature back" status.

this was the exactly how many 100 yard games (nice selective endpoint btw) hightower had when he was given the lead roll. along with a 2.8 ypc to boot. guess what else? last yr wells and hightower each had exactly 1 such game as well.

Exactly. They have incredibly similar production and failings. So why should Wells be a featured back? Why should he bemoan his role in a RBBC?

 

[Day Drinker]

They showed their "love" for Hightower by giving him 7 carries, a whopping 2 more than Beanie. This isn't a spat about share of the workload, there was no workload. Beanie wants the Cards to run more, which is what RBs always want their teams to do. I didn't see the game but from the box scores, that didn't look too feasible.

Here is my guess on how Whiz handles this when Beanie walks into his office.

"Beanie, you are a big part of this team and will play a bigger role as the season progresses. Our offense put us in a pretty big hole in that SD game and we got forced out of the run pretty early, and we feel Timmy gives us some more opportunities in the passing game at this point; both from a receiveing perspective and in pass protection. Now, I appreciate your passion, but if you ever open your F'ing mouth to the press again before you come talk to me, you will be begging to get 5 carries. Run hard this week kid, and hold on to the football."

 

[cvnpoka]

"feature back" is whatever. wells has every right to bemoan his current role bc he is deserving of more workload. the difference is that hightower has been given every chance to succeed and wells has been repeatedly relegated to a support role.

 

[Max Power]

Beanie should be upset. He's an elite talent that isn't being used as one. When the passing game is playing as poorly as it has been this season I don't understand why Whisenhunt isn't trying to lean more on his running game to pick up the slack. 5 carries for a back like Beanie is unacceptable regardless of ball security issues. AP has had cases of ball security issues too but you don't see the Vikings shying away from giving him the ball.

Adrian Peterson averaged 5.6 ypc, for over 1,300 yards rushing, and set the single game rushing record for the NFL his rookie year. These two are just not comparable.

Talent wise they are. How they are used, they aren't though.I'd still give the edge to Peterson, but the gap isn't nearly as big as you seem to think it is.

that thing you just saw flying by your ear was your credibility on its way out the door.Don't sweat it though, you can live a long time without it.

Why don't you phrase this question to the local experts and hear what Cecil, Bloom and Waldman have to say about Beanie's talent. Then get back to me about how lost I really am.

 

[Frot]

Beanie should be upset. He's an elite talent that isn't being used as one. When the passing game is playing as poorly as it has been this season I don't understand why Whisenhunt isn't trying to lean more on his running game to pick up the slack. 5 carries for a back like Beanie is unacceptable regardless of ball security issues. AP has had cases of ball security issues too but you don't see the Vikings shying away from giving him the ball.

Adrian Peterson averaged 5.6 ypc, for over 1,300 yards rushing, and set the single game rushing record for the NFL his rookie year. These two are just not comparable.

Talent wise they are. How they are used, they aren't though.I'd still give the edge to Peterson, but the gap isn't nearly as big as you seem to think it is.

that thing you just saw flying by your ear was your credibility on its way out the door.Don't sweat it though, you can live a long time without it.

Why don't you phrase this question to the local experts and hear what Cecil, Bloom and Waldman have to say about Beanie's talent. Then get back to me about how lost I really am.

I am pretty sure they can find the Shark PoolWhy don't you start a poll on who is more talented, AP, Beanie, or they are equalsee what the results are

 

[Max Power]

Why don't you start a poll on who is more talented, AP, Beanie, or they are equalsee what the results are

Peterson is the more talented back, but to say they aren't comparable talent wise is just silly

 

[Air Stich]

the guy has had one 100-yard rushing game in his career. He's going to have to do better than that before he gets "feature back" status.

this was the exactly how many 100 yard games (nice selective endpoint btw) hightower had when he was given the lead roll. along with a 2.8 ypc to boot. guess what else? last yr wells and hightower each had exactly 1 such game as well.

Exactly. They have incredibly similar production and failings. So why should Wells be a featured back? Why should he bemoan his role in a RBBC?

I'm not sure why I'm wasting my time in this thread because it's obvious that everyone's opinion of Wells is solidified and will only change based on what he does on the field. I own Wells in 1 of my 5 leagues, so I don't think I'm too biased here. Beanie hasn't had enough of an opportunity to show what he could do as a feature back. Hightower has. We've seen what THT brings to the table and it led to the Cardinals drafting a RB in the 1st round last year. I'm not sure if Wells will ever get the opportunity to produce like a stud fantasy back, but I am sure Arizona would love for him to produce up to his potential and become a feature back for the offense. If Beanie handles his business, Wizenhunt will feed him the ball. And it will be sooner than later.

 

[PahtyTom]

WTF is going on in here? What r we debating? Isn't it clear?

1. The Cardinals only chance of winning this year is by running the ball.

2. Wells is their best runner.

3. He shouldn't have talked to the media about this.

 

[silentmark]

when you're getting whooped 41-10 you're not going to get very many carries, Beanie.

It wasn't 41-10 by the time he got into the game, more like 21-7 I think. Not a "whooping" at that point ...

 

[Easy Six]

WTF is going on in here?

We're talking about the relative strengths and weaknesses of AZ running backs from an NFL standpoint

What r we debating?

Whether Beanie Wells should be getting the lion's share of carries in AZ based on his past performance and perceived injury history.

Isn't it clear?

Everyone seems to think so, but we don't agree on which way it should go. So apparently not.

1. The Cardinals only chance of winning this year is by running the ball. 2. Wells is their best runner.

They're not going to the playoffs. "Winning" this year is going to be defined by finding a QB, keeping everyone from giving up on the team, and identifying leadership in the locker room to rebuild this team around.He probably is their best pure runner, though he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. He's clearly a terrible leader, given these comments, and many believe that he's a liability in the passing game when compared with Hightower. As such, unless you want to tell the defense "THIS IS A PASS PLAY" every time Hightower's on the field, Hightower needs to be in for some handoffs, too.

3. He shouldn't have talked to the media about this.

Agreed.

 

[Da Guru]

Wells needs to get out of Arizona.

 

[thecardiackid]

the ONLY hope zona has to be decent this season, considering the qb mess (not to mention the D is a shell of it's former self), is to figure out how to run the ball effectively.

whether or not the D will make it possible remains to be seen, but some 5+ minute drives to rest the D will help the cause all around. if Hall is the qb, i doubt he's attempting many passes over 15 yds. or more than maybe 25 a game.

i think this sets up well for both THT and beanie now, and maybe wells starts to take more of the work.

bias: beanie owner in redraft - *and i like that he's pizzed.

 

[PahtyTom]

WTF is going on in here?

1. The Cardinals only chance of winning this year is by running the ball.

2. Wells is their best runner.

They're not going to the playoffs. "Winning" this year is going to be defined by finding a QB, keeping everyone from giving up on the team, and identifying leadership in the locker room to rebuild this team around.

He probably is their best pure runner, though he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. He's clearly a terrible leader, given these comments, and many believe that he's a liability in the passing game when compared with Hightower. As such, unless you want to tell the defense "THIS IS A PASS PLAY" every time Hightower's on the field, Hightower needs to be in for some handoffs, too.

3. He shouldn't have talked to the media about this.

Agreed.

Arizona still has a legit shot at winning that awful division. I think that is their main goal.

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

WTF is going on in here? What r we debating? Isn't it clear?

1. The Cardinals only chance of winning this year is by running the ball. No.

2. Wells is their best runner.No.

3. He shouldn't have talked to the media about this. Yes.

HTH

 

[Multiple Scores]

the guy has had one 100-yard rushing game in his career. He's going to have to do better than that before he gets "feature back" status.

So you're saying he needs to rush for 100 yards on 5 carries multiple times before getting the feature back role?Beanie has only rushed for 100 yards once, but he's also never had more than 17 carries in a game. You know how many times Adrian Peterson has rushed for 100 yards on 17 or fewer carries over the last three years? Zero.

He can't prove anything until he's given the chance. He certainly looks the part. Give him 22 carries a game for two months and see how it goes. If he sucks or gets hurt then you're no worse off then you are now, since this team clearly isn't going anywhere in its current state anyway. And the upside is that he plays as good as it looks like he can and this actually becomes a real football team.

Give Beanie the ball 20+ times for 2 months and he is a stud. Wisenhunt is a freaking moron.

 

[CrossEyed]

Wells needs to get out of Arizona.

Oooh, maybe they'll trade him for Marshawn Lynch.Quick, start another thread.

 

[Scooby1974]

Personally, I think Arizona should focus on working out a more balanced running/passing game irregardless of the score. Protect and develop Max Hall and try and find out if he has the qualities to be a starting QB moving forward. What good does going 3 and out on every drive do for his confidence? Why not grind things out, throw in some passing, sustains some drives, etc. It is becoming clear that Arizona can't score (29th in Offense, ranked 31 it total yards, ranked 30th in passing, 18th in rushing) enough, so Hightower obviously isn't exactly pushing this team over the edge to respectability. Arizona has barely won two games against two teams in the basement with them, and were blown out by two Average offenses.

The sad part of all of this is Whizenhunt and his coaching still will have to try and throw the ball in order to win games and keep their jobs. If ownership in Arizona had a brain however, they'd look at this season as a rebuilding year and try to lay the groundwork for a quality team in the future. I realize the NFL is a win NOW sort of league, it just seems counter intuitive to the teams future success and the future health of the organization.

 

[Easy Six]

the guy has had one 100-yard rushing game in his career. He's going to have to do better than that before he gets "feature back" status.

So you're saying he needs to rush for 100 yards on 5 carries multiple times before getting the feature back role?Beanie has only rushed for 100 yards once, but he's also never had more than 17 carries in a game. You know how many times Adrian Peterson has rushed for 100 yards on 17 or fewer carries over the last three years? Zero.

He can't prove anything until he's given the chance. He certainly looks the part. Give him 22 carries a game for two months and see how it goes. If he sucks or gets hurt then you're no worse off then you are now, since this team clearly isn't going anywhere in its current state anyway. And the upside is that he plays as good as it looks like he can and this actually becomes a real football team.

Give Beanie the ball 20+ times for 2 months and he is a stud. Wisenhunt is a freaking moron.

First - In his rookie year, Adrian Peterson rushed for 100 yards on less than 17 carries twice. Week 4 12/112 [three years and 5 days ago]

Week 13 15/116 [within the last three years]

Second, he's only had less than 18 carries 7 times in the regular season since that year in 35 games. Because he averages over 5 ypc. So they can't take him off the field. Unlike Beanie Wells.

 

[gsmayes]

To those that say Wells hasn't been given an opportunity to prove what he can do; there's this thing called practice that the coaches get to watch and we don't.

 

[Max Power]

the guy has had one 100-yard rushing game in his career. He's going to have to do better than that before he gets "feature back" status.

So you're saying he needs to rush for 100 yards on 5 carries multiple times before getting the feature back role?Beanie has only rushed for 100 yards once, but he's also never had more than 17 carries in a game. You know how many times Adrian Peterson has rushed for 100 yards on 17 or fewer carries over the last three years? Zero.

He can't prove anything until he's given the chance. He certainly looks the part. Give him 22 carries a game for two months and see how it goes. If he sucks or gets hurt then you're no worse off then you are now, since this team clearly isn't going anywhere in its current state anyway. And the upside is that he plays as good as it looks like he can and this actually becomes a real football team.

Give Beanie the ball 20+ times for 2 months and he is a stud. Wisenhunt is a freaking moron.

First - In his rookie year, Adrian Peterson rushed for 100 yards on less than 17 carries twice. Week 4 12/112 [three years and 5 days ago]

Week 13 15/116 [within the last three years]

Second, he's only had less than 18 carries 7 times in the regular season since that year in 35 games. Because he averages over 5 ypc. So they can't take him off the field. Unlike Beanie Wells.

lets look at 2009. Wells 4.5 ypc - 11.9 ypr. Peterson 4.4 ypc - 10.1 ypr. So lets stop acting like they are worlds apart.

 

[Touchdown There]

Nope. He is not right. Hightower has earned his playing time. Beanie has not earned anything. I do not own Hightower or Beanie, but if you are taking Beanie's side on this you are clearly a Beanie FF owner. He needs to earn playing time. If Beanie thinks this sort of action will earn him more playing time he is wrong. It would set an example to all other players that whining to the press is the way to get playing time. The coaches now have to slap his hand and bench him, or they lose control of the locker room.

How can Beanie earn it if he's not given a chance to?

You earn it in two-a-days and by staying healthy. You earn it by doing the opposite of what Beanie is doing, which is being a locker room cancer and press hound.

 

[Tau837]

To those that say Wells hasn't been given an opportunity to prove what he can do; there's this thing called practice that the coaches get to watch and we don't.