Beisbol Nerds: Opinion on Infield Fly Rule Interpretation (1 Viewer)

[John Mamula]

So in my crappy C league softball league last night, the topic of the infield fly rule came up. How you might ask? Well we had bases loaded with no outs, and one of our players who thinks he is a power hitter came up and popped the ball up about halfway in between the pitcher and catcher (the ball probably got to about 10-15 feet in the air). No infield fly rule is called, of course all of the runners are not going because they are not sure if it is about to be caught, the ball falls in between the pitcher and catcher and they proceed to turn a triple play.

I asked in disbelief why the ump did not call the infield fly. It was his interpretation that the infield fly is only for routine plays and he did not think that play was routine, as evidenced by nobody catching the ball. I thought that was ridiculous and stated that any "pop up" in the infield is an automatic infield fly as in my mind by definition that is fairly routine and the fact that no runners can advance until the ball hits the ground, which automatically makes the runners at a distinct disadvantage if the ball drops. The infield fly rule was created to specifically avoid pop ups causing double or triple plays.

The ump said that it is only routine plays, and just because someone could have caught the ball doesn't mean it is routine.



So what is the correct interpretation of the infield fly rule?

 

[Capella]

It's a judgment call by the ump with less than two outs and runners on. It's supposed to be ordinary/routine as he said. By what you described, that's exactly what it seemed to be.

 

[John Mamula]

It's a judgment call by the ump with less than two outs and runners on. It's supposed to be ordinary/routine as he said. By what you described, that's exactly what it seemed to be.

Yeah, the issue I had was with the judgement. I even yelled infield fly to remind him as it was happening and he looked at me dumbfounded.Maybe I confused him.

 

[buccosfan]

This is why you have the infield fly rule in the first place.

If you don't call the IFR and the defense is paying attention, they let it drop, and get a double or in your case, a triple play.

 

[Jethro Q. Walrustitty]

It's a judgment call by the ump with less than two outs and runners on. It's supposed to be ordinary/routine as he said. By what you described, that's exactly what it seemed to be.

Exactly. The ump is absolutely correct about the rule, but botched the call and probably didn't realize it until you brought it to his attention. Hey, you're dealing with a C league softball ump who's probably getting paid $20 to put up with your drunk asses.

 

[David Yudkin]

It's a judgment call, but I believe the inference is that a fielder has to have ample opportunity to run under the ball and be in position to catch it. (Thus the "fly" part of the rule.)

We obviously did not see the play, but if it was a squib that was not very high and no one could be "in position" and waiting to catch it, technically it's not a run of the mill play if someone had to chase it down and lunge to make a play for it. If neither the picther or catcher could get under the ball and be able to catch it, it's really not a "fly."

I hate softball umpiring to begin with, as I have been ejected from games over infield fly calls (called wrong in either direction). I remember one time they called an infield fly that an OUTFIELDER misjudged and the ball landed on the outfield grass like 40 feet from the infield but they still called it an "infield" fly.

We also had one in the league final down by a run with the bases loaded in the last inning where one ump called an infield fly but the other did not. So runners were running back to each base, the ball fell in, and the defense threw the ball to every base and turned a triple play.

The umpires didn't know what to do. Ultimately they decided not to call an infield fly and called everyone out for not running to the next base. I went bananas saying that you can't revoke an infield fly call as the runners then went BACK to the bases they were on. However, the one ump said only he had the authority to call an infield fly so the other guy was in the wrong and the wrong call had to be thrown out by rule. Somehow, of course, the runners were supposed to know that it wasn't in that umpire's juresdiction and should have run anyway. IMO, they should have called the batter out and sent the runners back to where they came from, but that got us nowhere.

 

[Dvorak]

Sure sounds like the ump made a bad call here, but shouldn't the runners be ready to advance in case the ball is not caught?

By this I mean take enough of a lead towards the next base that they can get back if it is caught, or try to advance if it were not? If the IF rule is called, the play is dead anyway and they cannot throw out the runners for not getting back (IIRC). But if not, at least the worst you lose is the lead runner as the others should have enough time to advance if they are paying attention.

 

[B Maverick]

Sure sounds like the ump made a bad call here, but shouldn't the runners be ready to advance in case the ball is not caught? By this I mean take enough of a lead towards the next base that they can get back if it is caught, or try to advance if it were not? If the IF rule is called, the play is dead anyway and they cannot throw out the runners for not getting back (IIRC). But if not, at least the worst you lose is the lead runner as the others should have enough time to advance if they are paying attention.

a pop up in the infield, how far from the base do you think they can get?

 

[John Mamula]

Sure sounds like the ump made a bad call here, but shouldn't the runners be ready to advance in case the ball is not caught? By this I mean take enough of a lead towards the next base that they can get back if it is caught, or try to advance if it were not? If the IF rule is called, the play is dead anyway and they cannot throw out the runners for not getting back (IIRC). But if not, at least the worst you lose is the lead runner as the others should have enough time to advance if they are paying attention.

a pop up in the infield, how far from the base do you think they can get?

this is really my point...maybe you can get a few feet off the base, but the pitcher one hopped the pop fly, shoveled it to home, went to third and went to second. there was a lot of confusion but even if everyone went exactly at the time the ball hit the ground, they would have got at least two outs.

 

[B Maverick]

Sure sounds like the ump made a bad call here, but shouldn't the runners be ready to advance in case the ball is not caught? By this I mean take enough of a lead towards the next base that they can get back if it is caught, or try to advance if it were not? If the IF rule is called, the play is dead anyway and they cannot throw out the runners for not getting back (IIRC). But if not, at least the worst you lose is the lead runner as the others should have enough time to advance if they are paying attention.

a pop up in the infield, how far from the base do you think they can get?

this is really my point...maybe you can get a few feet off the base, but the pitcher one hopped the pop fly, shoveled it to home, went to third and went to second. there was a lot of confusion but even if everyone went exactly at the time the ball hit the ground, they would have got at least two outs.

If it was high enough, the ump blew it. Even if the pitcher and catcher are the typical "large individuals" you see in these levels (or old guys). The infield Fly and interference are the 2 rules more softball umps mess up then anything. SOunds like the defense played teh ump's call perfectly.

 

[Tom Servo]

The rule as I've read it in the past calls it "ordinary effort", not routine. A softball diamond is what - 60 feet between bases? The pitchers mound is about 40 feet from home plate. If the ball went 10-15 feet in the air, it was in the air long enough for some lard butt to stroll the 20 feet to get under it and catch it.

"Ordinary effort" means what it says -- not having to run a great distance or having to do a Grady Sizemore-like dive to try to catch it. If either pitcher or catcher could easily catch the ball, it's an infield fly.

Sounds like some ump has his beer goggles on.

 

[TinHat]

The Ump is going to make his 20 bucks regardless if the game takes two hours or 45 minutes.

He made his call accordingly.

 

[Softballguy]

The rule as I've read it in the past calls it "ordinary effort", not routine.

That's it exactly - ordinary effort. It should be judged based on where the infielders are when the ball is at it's maximum height.

 

[Nipsey]

How'd they turn 3? Home, 3rd, 2nd? Did everyone just not run?

 

[John Mamula]

How'd they turn 3? Home, 3rd, 2nd? Did everyone just not run?

exactly.i was actually on first and started running once the ball hit the ground. the guy on second wasn't moving, and since you run at your own risk even if the infield fly rule is called i went back to first assuming that an ump called the infield fly and i didn't hear it. it didn't matter anyway because i had nowhere to run.that's why i was so stunned...neither the guy on third or second ran, so i assumed that infield fly was called and i didn't want to get doubled off at first. unfortunately the guys at the bottom of the lineup (who were on second and third) really have no concept of basic baserunning skills.

 

[urbanhack]

How'd they turn 3? Home, 3rd, 2nd? Did everyone just not run?

exactly.i was actually on first and started running once the ball hit the ground. the guy on second wasn't moving, and since you run at your own risk even if the infield fly rule is called i went back to first assuming that an ump called the infield fly and i didn't hear it. it didn't matter anyway because i had nowhere to run.

what were you wearing?

 

[JZilla]

I just watched this exact thing happen in the Orioles Yankees game, and thought of this thread. Man on first, ball was popped up about 10 feet in front of home plate and toward the first base line. Pitcher, catcher, 3rd baseman and 1st baseman were all making moves towards the ball and the first baseman called them off and basket caught the ball at the last second. No infield fly was called, and the announcer mentioned that if the ball had dropped, well at least they could have thrown out the runner at 2nd.

Guess it is indeed up to the ump

 

[Doctor Detroit]

The Ump is going to make his 20 bucks regarless if the game takes two hours or 45 minutes.He made his call accordingly.

That's exactly right.

 

[David Yudkin]

I just watched this exact thing happen in the Orioles Yankees game, and thought of this thread. Man on first, ball was popped up about 10 feet in front of home plate and toward the first base line. Pitcher, catcher, 3rd baseman and 1st baseman were all making moves towards the ball and the first baseman called them off and basket caught the ball at the last second. No infield fly was called, and the announcer mentioned that if the ball had dropped, well at least they could have thrown out the runner at 2nd.Guess it is indeed up to the ump

IIRC, you need at least two men on for an infield fly.

 

[JZilla]

I just watched this exact thing happen in the Orioles Yankees game, and thought of this thread. Man on first, ball was popped up about 10 feet in front of home plate and toward the first base line. Pitcher, catcher, 3rd baseman and 1st baseman were all making moves towards the ball and the first baseman called them off and basket caught the ball at the last second. No infield fly was called, and the announcer mentioned that if the ball had dropped, well at least they could have thrown out the runner at 2nd.Guess it is indeed up to the ump

IIRC, you need at least two men on for an infield fly.

Oh, my bust. I know nothing.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

So in my crappy C league softball league last night, the topic of the infield fly rule came up. How you might ask? Well we had bases loaded with no outs, and one of our players who thinks he is a power hitter came up and popped the ball up about halfway in between the pitcher and catcher (the ball probably got to about 10-15 feet in the air). No infield fly rule is called, of course all of the runners are not going because they are not sure if it is about to be caught, the ball falls in between the pitcher and catcher and they proceed to turn a triple play.I asked in disbelief why the ump did not call the infield fly. It was his interpretation that the infield fly is only for routine plays and he did not think that play was routine, as evidenced by nobody catching the ball. I thought that was ridiculous and stated that any "pop up" in the infield is an automatic infield fly as in my mind by definition that is fairly routine and the fact that no runners can advance until the ball hits the ground, which automatically makes the runners at a distinct disadvantage if the ball drops. The infield fly rule was created to specifically avoid pop ups causing double or triple plays.The ump said that it is only routine plays, and just because someone could have caught the ball doesn't mean it is routine. So what is the correct interpretation of the infield fly rule?

Quexion: Exactly how did it happen that such a "fly ball" was not caught by either the catcher, pitcher, 1b or 3b? Give me detail.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

So in my crappy C league softball league last night, the topic of the infield fly rule came up. How you might ask? Well we had bases loaded with no outs, and one of our players who thinks he is a power hitter came up and popped the ball up about halfway in between the pitcher and catcher (the ball probably got to about 10-15 feet in the air). No infield fly rule is called, of course all of the runners are not going because they are not sure if it is about to be caught, the ball falls in between the pitcher and catcher and they proceed to turn a triple play.I asked in disbelief why the ump did not call the infield fly. It was his interpretation that the infield fly is only for routine plays and he did not think that play was routine, as evidenced by nobody catching the ball. I thought that was ridiculous and stated that any "pop up" in the infield is an automatic infield fly as in my mind by definition that is fairly routine and the fact that no runners can advance until the ball hits the ground, which automatically makes the runners at a distinct disadvantage if the ball drops. The infield fly rule was created to specifically avoid pop ups causing double or triple plays.The ump said that it is only routine plays, and just because someone could have caught the ball doesn't mean it is routine. So what is the correct interpretation of the infield fly rule?

Quexion: Exactly how did it happen that such a "fly ball" was not caught by either the catcher, pitcher, 1b or 3b? Give me detail.

Ahem.