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Ben Roethlisberger is awesome (1 Viewer)

SMG sports management. The family thing. Funny, I think I was the last good QB to play for the Lions (aside from Charlie Batch). Equipment sure has come along way.I keep waiting to hear from ESPN for a "where are they now" segment, but no one is calling...
I figured by now you'd either be a spokeperson for Alberto VO5 or Tommy Bahama or something. Forwhatever reason, when I think of Mike Tomczak, I think of a dude who's hanging out at in a cabana in Morocco or something, drinking a Old-Fashioned or a Godfather....with perfectly coifed hair, of course.I have to say.....it's sort of a buzzkill you aren't. Still, it's better than be associated with the suck that is ESPN.
 
As a Steeler fan, Ben has frustrated me almost every game this year. Up through the Indy game, his play was very spotty and decision making poor to say the least. The OLine and injury have both impacted this, but still.

Since the Indy game (I think 4 games now), he has played very good, and cut down the mistakes by a large margin. I think part of this is him being more judicious with the ball (although it didnt seem that way on that INT or whatever they called it yesterday when he was being sacked), but the OLine have definitely stepped up as well - only 3 sacks for BAL is HOF stuff for them - and think his better play is correlated to that.

Despite him frustrating me, I dont think any other QB in the NFL would be having a better season than him considering our OLine being teh suck, and to a lesser degree, not much of a running game in 75% of the games this year. Not Brady, not Brees, nobody I think would have better numbers than Ben right now if they were in the same situation.

 
I agree. I love Big Ben. And I also think that, among the media that covers the NFL, he is underappreciated.
:goodposting: Stop with this schtick and go pretend to be a fan of a different team.
I've been a Steeler fan since January of 1975.
LMAO @ claiming to remember the month.
Ummm- it's not a hard month to remember, because it was a Superbowl game that made me a Steeler fan.
 
Yeah, he proved that he can complete a pass when there's no pass rush, he's got 5 seconds to view the field and he is standing erect ####, I could do that. :goodposting:

 
"LA is a big market why is there not a team in LA. It is not about market size it is about fanbase that is where the NFL makes money not on how many people live in your city. Unfortunately I have had to suffer through 6 or 7 Steeler games this year and I see they get the majority of the 50/50 calls it is like they flip a 2 headed coin and it comes up PIT every time. "

Pittsburgh normally doesn't get the benefit of the calls. I was tickled pink yesterday. Either way, the few sentences of crazy talk and gibberish you posted is utter rubbish. Move on.

Ben is the man. He wins games.
I'm just leading a horse to water here. In trying to rip the Steelers, he instead ends up asserting that Steeler Nation is so powerful that we now collectively affect the outcome of games ON THE FIELD. :thumbdown:
Dude your not smart even to "leading a horse to water" I never denied the Steelers have a strong fan base and I never said that the fan base determines the outcome of a game, I just pointed out how you wrong on the size of the market matters to the NFL its all about fan base.
Isn't it ironic? Dont you think?And you did say the fan base determines the outcome of the game as soon as you claimed the refs were calling games Pittsburgh's way because the league wants the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

 
Holds onto the ball too long. Sometimes it works out. Too often it doesn't.
Have you looked at this guy's career W-L record? how this guy rides his defense and running game

I think it works out OK.
He doesn't have much of a running game this year. And look at all the 4th quarter comebacks.
with that d, if he was really any good, he would have a double digit lead already. OVER RATED! Look at his games against good teams and you see how lucky this guy is:Indy: this was the only time the stillers allowed more than 21 points this year. Steelers had the ball with 3 minutes left down 4 and couldn't score.

Baltimore round 1: ravens score tying td in fourth quarter. big ben can't come back with 4 minutes left. Baltimore gets the ball first in OT, defense stops them. Steelers get the ball at the 40, win on a long fg.

Baltimore round 2: where was the td? not a call you should make to decide a game.

GMen: another loss to a team that put up over 20 points. And the defense set him up with a 5 point lead going into the fourth

Cowboys: Big Ben tied it up, but it was the defense who scored the go ahead.

When your defense keeps you in EVERY game and gives you multiple opportunities to cash it in for the win, you are going to do it a few times, particularly against bad teams. On the other hand, look at a guy like Brees who gets criticized for not being able to come from behind - but any time he does his defense hands it right back.

 
gonzobill5 said:
Holds onto the ball too long. Sometimes it works out. Too often it doesn't.
Have you looked at this guy's career W-L record? how this guy rides his defense and running game

I think it works out OK.
He doesn't have much of a running game this year. And look at all the 4th quarter comebacks.
with that d, if he was really any good, he would have a double digit lead already. OVER RATED! Look at his games against good teams and you see how lucky this guy is:Indy: this was the only time the stillers allowed more than 21 points this year. Steelers had the ball with 3 minutes left down 4 and couldn't score.

Because earlier they couldn't punch it in from the yard line, after Ben got them there.

Baltimore round 1: ravens score tying td in fourth quarter. big ben can't come back with 4 minutes left. Baltimore gets the ball first in OT, defense stops them. Steelers get the ball at the 40, win on a long fg.

Said FG caused by a drive by Ben which put them in position to score.

Baltimore round 2: where was the td? not a call you should make to decide a game.

Said TD after a 92 yard drive against the 2nd best defense late in the 4th quarter, in which 89 of the yards were passing by Ben.

GMen: another loss to a team that put up over 20 points. And the defense set him up with a 5 point lead going into the fourth

Loss caused by special teams + collapse of the offensive line

Cowboys: Big Ben tied it up, but it was the defense who scored the go ahead.

"Big Ben tied it up" as you say, bringing them back from 10 down with three good drives in the 4th quarter against an excellent defense (the first drive leading to Dallas' goalline stand).

When your defense keeps you in EVERY game and gives you multiple opportunities to cash it in for the win, you are going to do it a few times, particularly against bad teams. On the other hand, look at a guy like Brees who gets criticized for not being able to come from behind - but any time he does his defense hands it right back.
You are working pretty hard here to find criticism of Big Ben, and yet you fail at every example.
 
As a Steelers fan, if you had told me at the beginning of the year that the Steelers would be 11-3 after week 15, I'd be thrilled and somewhat surprised.

1.) The Steelers have had the toughest schedule in the NFL.

2.) The loss of Alan Faneca has really had an impact on the Steelers running game

3.) FWP has been dinged up all season, and pretty much unreliable. Mewelde Moore has been huge for the Steelers.

4.) The defense has been unbelievable. They have kept the Steelers is many games, and have won some as well. This is what defenses are supposed to do. You cannot minimize the play of Ben because the Steelers D is so awesome

5.) Ben is not flashy, but he is what Steelers football is all about. Tough hard nosed football. He gets the job done..PERIOD

If you don't like Ben or think he's average, that's fine. I frankly don't care how underrated or overrated people think he is. Bottom line the guy is a winner.

 
Holds onto the ball too long. Sometimes it works out. Too often it doesn't.
Have you looked at this guy's career W-L record? how this guy rides his defense and running game

I think it works out OK.
He doesn't have much of a running game this year. And look at all the 4th quarter comebacks.
with that d, if he was really any good, he would have a double digit lead already. OVER RATED! Look at his games against good teams and you see how lucky this guy is:Indy: this was the only time the stillers allowed more than 21 points this year. Steelers had the ball with 3 minutes left down 4 and couldn't score.

Because earlier they couldn't punch it in from the yard line, after Ben got them there.

Baltimore round 1: ravens score tying td in fourth quarter. big ben can't come back with 4 minutes left. Baltimore gets the ball first in OT, defense stops them. Steelers get the ball at the 40, win on a long fg.

Said FG caused by a drive by Ben which put them in position to score.

Baltimore round 2: where was the td? not a call you should make to decide a game.

Said TD after a 92 yard drive against the 2nd best defense late in the 4th quarter, in which 89 of the yards were passing by Ben.

GMen: another loss to a team that put up over 20 points. And the defense set him up with a 5 point lead going into the fourth

Loss caused by special teams + collapse of the offensive line

Cowboys: Big Ben tied it up, but it was the defense who scored the go ahead.

"Big Ben tied it up" as you say, bringing them back from 10 down with three good drives in the 4th quarter against an excellent defense (the first drive leading to Dallas' goalline stand).

When your defense keeps you in EVERY game and gives you multiple opportunities to cash it in for the win, you are going to do it a few times, particularly against bad teams. On the other hand, look at a guy like Brees who gets criticized for not being able to come from behind - but any time he does his defense hands it right back.
You are working pretty hard here to find criticism of Big Ben, and yet you fail at every example.
I love how the offensive line always gets blamed for Big Ben's mistakes. Yeah they suck, so what, the qb's in sf, detroit, st. louis, etc. never get a break for having crappy offensive lines. The guy holds onto the ball too long and makes way too many mistakes to be considered a top qb. I think you missed my point about how all of his comebacks were not that spectacular (except for this past week, where if the call went the other way this thread wouldn't exist). I'm not criticizing his play in those games, just pointing out that in a lot of these comebacks, the defense set him up perfectly.

Bottom line is if a team puts up three TD's on the steelers, they will lose. If you put Big Ben on the Saints, he's not a winner anymore.

 
Holds onto the ball too long. Sometimes it works out. Too often it doesn't.
Have you looked at this guy's career W-L record? how this guy rides his defense and running game

I think it works out OK.
He doesn't have much of a running game this year. And look at all the 4th quarter comebacks.
with that d, if he was really any good, he would have a double digit lead already. OVER RATED! Look at his games against good teams and you see how lucky this guy is:Indy: this was the only time the stillers allowed more than 21 points this year. Steelers had the ball with 3 minutes left down 4 and couldn't score.

Because earlier they couldn't punch it in from the yard line, after Ben got them there.

Baltimore round 1: ravens score tying td in fourth quarter. big ben can't come back with 4 minutes left. Baltimore gets the ball first in OT, defense stops them. Steelers get the ball at the 40, win on a long fg.

Said FG caused by a drive by Ben which put them in position to score.

Baltimore round 2: where was the td? not a call you should make to decide a game.

Said TD after a 92 yard drive against the 2nd best defense late in the 4th quarter, in which 89 of the yards were passing by Ben.

GMen: another loss to a team that put up over 20 points. And the defense set him up with a 5 point lead going into the fourth

Loss caused by special teams + collapse of the offensive line

Cowboys: Big Ben tied it up, but it was the defense who scored the go ahead.

"Big Ben tied it up" as you say, bringing them back from 10 down with three good drives in the 4th quarter against an excellent defense (the first drive leading to Dallas' goalline stand).

When your defense keeps you in EVERY game and gives you multiple opportunities to cash it in for the win, you are going to do it a few times, particularly against bad teams. On the other hand, look at a guy like Brees who gets criticized for not being able to come from behind - but any time he does his defense hands it right back.
You are working pretty hard here to find criticism of Big Ben, and yet you fail at every example.
I love how the offensive line always gets blamed for Big Ben's mistakes. Yeah they suck, so what, the qb's in sf, detroit, st. louis, etc. never get a break for having crappy offensive lines. The guy holds onto the ball too long and makes way too many mistakes to be considered a top qb. I think you missed my point about how all of his comebacks were not that spectacular (except for this past week, where if the call went the other way this thread wouldn't exist). I'm not criticizing his play in those games, just pointing out that in a lot of these comebacks, the defense set him up perfectly.

Bottom line is if a team puts up three TD's on the steelers, they will lose. If you put Big Ben on the Saints, he's not a winner anymore.
Square that up with the fact that the Steelers have averaged 26 points per game in Ben's 7 career playoff games. In fact were it not for the defense Roethlisberger would have led one of the Steelers greatest playoff comebacks last year against the Jags. But Garrard broke loose in the final minute and the Steelers lost 31-29.
 
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Not a Steelers fan but I absolutely think Big Ben is an excellent QB who does not get as much recognition as he probably deserves. I think there are a lot of reasons for this fact, many of which have been mentioned already (great defense, good running game until this year, etc..) but to me the main reason for his lack of respect is the fact that he is in the league at the same time as Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. It is tough to argue that he is better than these two guys (though it is an argument that a person can make), but in terms of being a Franchise QB I would be ecstatic to have him as a Bears fan.

 
I think you missed my point about how all of his comebacks were not that spectacular (except for this past week, where if the call went the other way this thread wouldn't exist). I'm not criticizing his play in those games, just pointing out that in a lot of these comebacks, the defense set him up perfectly.

Bottom line is if a team puts up three TD's on the steelers, they will lose. If you put Big Ben on the Saints, he's not a winner anymore.
Square that up with the fact that the Steelers have averaged 26 points per game in Ben's 7 career playoff games. In fact were it not for the defense Roethlisberger would have led one of the Steelers greatest playoff comebacks last year against the Jags. But Garrard broke loose in the final minute and the Steelers lost 31-29.
Further, if he's invalidating this comeback vs. Baltimore based on a bad call (which the NFL reviewed and upheld) then Roethlisberger should get credit for leading that comeback vs. Jacksonville since Garrard's 4th down scramble that won Jax the game should have been nullified but for a bad no-call (which the NFL reviewed and apologized for.)
 
Holds onto the ball too long. Sometimes it works out. Too often it doesn't.
Have you looked at this guy's career W-L record? how this guy rides his defense and running game

I think it works out OK.
He doesn't have much of a running game this year. And look at all the 4th quarter comebacks.
with that d, if he was really any good, he would have a double digit lead already. OVER RATED! Look at his games against good teams and you see how lucky this guy is:Indy: this was the only time the stillers allowed more than 21 points this year. Steelers had the ball with 3 minutes left down 4 and couldn't score.

Because earlier they couldn't punch it in from the yard line, after Ben got them there.

Baltimore round 1: ravens score tying td in fourth quarter. big ben can't come back with 4 minutes left. Baltimore gets the ball first in OT, defense stops them. Steelers get the ball at the 40, win on a long fg.

Said FG caused by a drive by Ben which put them in position to score.

Baltimore round 2: where was the td? not a call you should make to decide a game.

Said TD after a 92 yard drive against the 2nd best defense late in the 4th quarter, in which 89 of the yards were passing by Ben.

GMen: another loss to a team that put up over 20 points. And the defense set him up with a 5 point lead going into the fourth

Loss caused by special teams + collapse of the offensive line

Cowboys: Big Ben tied it up, but it was the defense who scored the go ahead.

"Big Ben tied it up" as you say, bringing them back from 10 down with three good drives in the 4th quarter against an excellent defense (the first drive leading to Dallas' goalline stand).

When your defense keeps you in EVERY game and gives you multiple opportunities to cash it in for the win, you are going to do it a few times, particularly against bad teams. On the other hand, look at a guy like Brees who gets criticized for not being able to come from behind - but any time he does his defense hands it right back.
You are working pretty hard here to find criticism of Big Ben, and yet you fail at every example.
I love how the offensive line always gets blamed for Big Ben's mistakes. Yeah they suck, so what, the qb's in sf, detroit, st. louis, etc. never get a break for having crappy offensive lines. You're not seriously comparing him to these other qbs are you?

The guy holds onto the ball too long and makes way too many mistakes to be considered a top qb.

This is true but he also makes a lot of plays because of this. He's been doing this his entire career and the good has clearly outweighed the bad by holding onto the ball too long.

I think you missed my point about how all of his comebacks were not that spectacular (except for this past week, where if the call went the other way this thread wouldn't exist).

LOL but the call didn't go the other way so you're talking about a hypothetical. Regardless of that call, Ben led his team down the field against the 2nd best defense in the league.

I'm not criticizing his play in those games, just pointing out that in a lot of these comebacks, the defense set him up perfectly.

I don't understand this at all. Fact.....Steelers were losing late in the 4th quarter 2 weeks in a row. Fact....Ben led them on late scoring drives to either win or tie it. The defense set him up perfectly? He had to drive over 90 yards in the Baltimore comeback. How is that being set up perfectly?

Bottom line is if a team puts up three TD's on the steelers, they will lose.

Nice hypothetical LOL. The problem is that this so rarely happens that we don't have a large enough sample size to test this.

If you put Big Ben on the Saints, he's not a winner anymore.

Another nice hypothetical. You like dealing with hypotheticals.......
 
Holds onto the ball too long. Sometimes it works out. Too often it doesn't.
Have you looked at this guy's career W-L record? how this guy rides his defense and running game

I think it works out OK.
He doesn't have much of a running game this year. And look at all the 4th quarter comebacks.
with that d, if he was really any good, he would have a double digit lead already. OVER RATED! Look at his games against good teams and you see how lucky this guy is:Indy: this was the only time the stillers allowed more than 21 points this year. Steelers had the ball with 3 minutes left down 4 and couldn't score.

Because earlier they couldn't punch it in from the yard line, after Ben got them there.

Baltimore round 1: ravens score tying td in fourth quarter. big ben can't come back with 4 minutes left. Baltimore gets the ball first in OT, defense stops them. Steelers get the ball at the 40, win on a long fg.

Said FG caused by a drive by Ben which put them in position to score.

Baltimore round 2: where was the td? not a call you should make to decide a game.

Said TD after a 92 yard drive against the 2nd best defense late in the 4th quarter, in which 89 of the yards were passing by Ben.

GMen: another loss to a team that put up over 20 points. And the defense set him up with a 5 point lead going into the fourth

Loss caused by special teams + collapse of the offensive line

Cowboys: Big Ben tied it up, but it was the defense who scored the go ahead.

"Big Ben tied it up" as you say, bringing them back from 10 down with three good drives in the 4th quarter against an excellent defense (the first drive leading to Dallas' goalline stand).

When your defense keeps you in EVERY game and gives you multiple opportunities to cash it in for the win, you are going to do it a few times, particularly against bad teams. On the other hand, look at a guy like Brees who gets criticized for not being able to come from behind - but any time he does his defense hands it right back.
You are working pretty hard here to find criticism of Big Ben, and yet you fail at every example.
I love how the offensive line always gets blamed for Big Ben's mistakes. Yeah they suck, so what, the qb's in sf, detroit, st. louis, etc. never get a break for having crappy offensive lines. The guy holds onto the ball too long and makes way too many mistakes to be considered a top qb. I think you missed my point about how all of his comebacks were not that spectacular (except for this past week, where if the call went the other way this thread wouldn't exist). I'm not criticizing his play in those games, just pointing out that in a lot of these comebacks, the defense set him up perfectly.

Bottom line is if a team puts up three TD's on the steelers, they will lose. If you put Big Ben on the Saints, he's not a winner anymore.
Square that up with the fact that the Steelers have averaged 26 points per game in Ben's 7 career playoff games. In fact were it not for the defense Roethlisberger would have led one of the Steelers greatest playoff comebacks last year against the Jags. But Garrard broke loose in the final minute and the Steelers lost 31-29.
Ok, look closely at those 7 playoff games...In 2004 he three three TDs in two playoff games (one was a meaningless td at the end of the pats game) and also threw two pick 6's. Granted, he was a rookie.

In 2005 he was unbelievable throughout the playoffs. However on the biggest stage he came up short. 9 for 21 with 0 tds and 2 picks. Randel El throws the big TD.

2007, the Jags game you mentioned, shows my point perfectly that Big Ben isn't considered a winner if he doesn't have a defense to back him up. This whole "come from behind victory" is overrated. You generally need a good d to put you in the position, and you definitely need a good d if there is any time left on the clock.

 
Lots of lunacy in here. If, "ifs and buts were candy and nuts it'd be Christmas everyday". The guy is a winner, end of story.

 
Lots of lunacy in here. If, "ifs and buts were candy and nuts it'd be Christmas everyday". The guy is a winner, end of story.
For a guy that is supposed to be "great" he sure has to be heavily defended by the homers.
All the great qbs are defended by homers. This is because there are generally an equal number of haters. It comes with the territory of being great. Ben isn't "great" yet but he will be by the time his career is over.
 
Lots of lunacy in here. If, "ifs and buts were candy and nuts it'd be Christmas everyday". The guy is a winner, end of story.
For a guy that is supposed to be "great" he sure has to be heavily defended by the homers.
I'm not defending anyone, nor have I said he was great. I'm simply saying he gets the job done and is a winner. See post #67 for further clarification
 
2 Stat lines for you:

9-22-123-0-2 22.6 QB rating

Recognize that line? That's what Big Ben did in the biggest game he's ever been a part of.

Or...

221-375-2853-14-12 for an 11-3 team. Nearly identical stats as Ben, the same record and author of multiple late-game comebacks this year as well. Thus, if Big Ben is a top-3 QB, then Jake Delhomme must be 3b.

 
Lots of lunacy in here. If, "ifs and buts were candy and nuts it'd be Christmas everyday". The guy is a winner, end of story.
For a guy that is supposed to be "great" he sure has to be heavily defended by the homers.
All the great qbs are defended by homers. This is because there are generally an equal number of haters. It comes with the territory of being great. Ben isn't "great" yet but he will be by the time his career is over.
That's my point it will Depend on who you you ask when he is done. Ask a honk and they will say he could do nothing wrong. Ask someone who watches a lot of football and you will probably get a different answer. You won't get those questions for guys like Montana Farve Marino Brady etc
 
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Lots of lunacy in here. If, "ifs and buts were candy and nuts it'd be Christmas everyday". The guy is a winner, end of story.
For a guy that is supposed to be "great" he sure has to be heavily defended by the homers.
All the great qbs are defended by homers. This is because there are generally an equal number of haters. It comes with the territory of being great. Ben isn't "great" yet but he will be by the time his career is over.
That's my point it will Depend on who you you ask when he is done. Ask a honk and they will say he could do nothing wrong. Ask someone who watches a lot of football and you will probably get a different answer. You won't get those questions for guys like Montana Farve Marino Brady etc
You couldn't be more wrong with this post. It's just that the greater the player, the further and more crazed the haters have to go in order to try and justify some of their conspiracy theories...exhibit A is half the posts in this thread.Steeler fans should rejoice. The guy is clutch, and young and should anchor that team for years to come. Who cares what some people say, you get the joy of rooting for him and having him win for your team. Just like the Colts, the Patriots, etc. There will always be irrational haters clinging to whatever marginal position that they can, trying to yell you down - "It's not me that's crazy, it's the world that's crazy".
 
I think you missed my point about how all of his comebacks were not that spectacular (except for this past week, where if the call went the other way this thread wouldn't exist). I'm not criticizing his play in those games, just pointing out that in a lot of these comebacks, the defense set him up perfectly.

Bottom line is if a team puts up three TD's on the steelers, they will lose. If you put Big Ben on the Saints, he's not a winner anymore.
Square that up with the fact that the Steelers have averaged 26 points per game in Ben's 7 career playoff games. In fact were it not for the defense Roethlisberger would have led one of the Steelers greatest playoff comebacks last year against the Jags. But Garrard broke loose in the final minute and the Steelers lost 31-29.
Further, if he's invalidating this comeback vs. Baltimore based on a bad call (which the NFL reviewed and upheld) then Roethlisberger should get credit for leading that comeback vs. Jacksonville since Garrard's 4th down scramble that won Jax the game should have been nullified but for a bad no-call (which the NFL reviewed and apologized for.)
Zoom. I guess I'm speaking a different language today. My point is calling the guy "a winner" and indicating that he's one of the best qb's in the league because he has these late game comebacks is a fallacy. I said several times that if he was really that good, with that defense, he'd never be in those situations to begin with. He wins because his defense has been damn good his entire career, this year especially. Give the credit to those who deserve it.
 
Lots of lunacy in here. If, "ifs and buts were candy and nuts it'd be Christmas everyday". The guy is a winner, end of story.
For a guy that is supposed to be "great" he sure has to be heavily defended by the homers.
All the great qbs are defended by homers. This is because there are generally an equal number of haters. It comes with the territory of being great. Ben isn't "great" yet but he will be by the time his career is over.
That's my point it will Depend on who you you ask when he is done. Ask a honk and they will say he could do nothing wrong. Ask someone who watches a lot of football and you will probably get a different answer. You won't get those questions for guys like Montana Farve Marino Brady etc
You couldn't be more wrong with this post. It's just that the greater the player, the further and more crazed the haters have to go in order to try and justify some of their conspiracy theories...exhibit A is half the posts in this thread.Steeler fans should rejoice. The guy is clutch, and young and should anchor that team for years to come. Who cares what some people say, you get the joy of rooting for him and having him win for your team. Just like the Colts, the Patriots, etc. There will always be irrational haters clinging to whatever marginal position that they can, trying to yell you down - "It's not me that's crazy, it's the world that's crazy".
:goodposting: It really just comes down to a lot of jealousy from a few posters in this thread.
 

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