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Bernie Sanders HQ! *A decent human being. (4 Viewers)

timschochet said:
First off Jennifer Rubin isn’t even a Democrat. She’s a conservative, and a Never Trumper, and like many others in her group (Rick Tyler, Max Boot, Bill Kristol, etc.) she believes that a progressive candidate will lose to Trump so she is hoping for a moderate Democrat. I agree with her. 

You can disagree with her, of course, but you’re making a mistake by accusing her of being part of this bogus Democratic Party establishment conspiracy. There is no evidence that the other article is related at all to the party, either. 

Please leave the conspiracies to the Republican Party. 
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Thanks I'm aware of who she is.  I wouldn't dare insinuate that the establishment is all in this together.

I'll leave the conspiracies to the Tulsi Gabbard thread

 
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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/480355-poll-sanders-opens-up-15-point-lead-in-new-hampshire

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders (I) has separated from the pack of Democratic White House hopefuls in New Hampshire, opening up a 15-point lead over the next closest contender, according to a new poll.

The latest American Research Group (ARG) survey finds
Sanders in first place at 28 percent support,
followed by former Vice President Joe Biden at 13,
former South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg at 12
and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) at 11.
Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-Hawaii) comes in at 8 percent support,    :eek:    (and they refuse to let her debate)
followed by Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.) at 7 percent.

 
If Bernie loses Iowa he's gonna need another heart attack to come back. Even if it's staged. I fully expect to see a fundraising email with him in an oxygen mask.

 
This is, hopefully, the high water mark of Bernie’s campaign. 

I don’t dislike Bernie, I think he’s a good man, well meaning, and if he is the nominee against Trump I will happily vote for him without reservation. 

But I also think he will be rather easy to beat. Republicans will dig up video of his effusive praise for Fidel Castro, the old Soviet Union, and communist regimes around the world. And that will be only the beginning. It will be IMO a repeat of the recent Boris Johnson election in Britain: just like over there, I simply don’t believe that Americans will ever accept a candidate this far left. In terms of the electoral college it might be as disastrous as George McGovern. Of course I’ll be hoping the whole time I’m wrong about this. 

 
timschochet said:
This is, hopefully, the high water mark of Bernie’s campaign. 

I don’t dislike Bernie, I think he’s a good man, well meaning, and if he is the nominee against Trump I will happily vote for him without reservation. 

But I also think he will be rather easy to beat. Republicans will dig up video of his effusive praise for Fidel Castro, the old Soviet Union, and communist regimes around the world. And that will be only the beginning. It will be IMO a repeat of the recent Boris Johnson election in Britain: just like over there, I simply don’t believe that Americans will ever accept a candidate this far left. In terms of the electoral college it might be as disastrous as George McGovern. Of course I’ll be hoping the whole time I’m wrong about this. 
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You will be wrong...again.

 
FWIW, his surge is real.  Not sure what happened to give him a bump across every state at the same time, but his position is improving.

 
timschochet said:
This is, hopefully, the high water mark of Bernie’s campaign. 

I don’t dislike Bernie, I think he’s a good man, well meaning, and if he is the nominee against Trump I will happily vote for him without reservation. 

But I also think he will be rather easy to beat. Republicans will dig up video of his effusive praise for Fidel Castro, the old Soviet Union, and communist regimes around the world. And that will be only the beginning. It will be IMO a repeat of the recent Boris Johnson election in Britain: just like over there, I simply don’t believe that Americans will ever accept a candidate this far left. In terms of the electoral college it might be as disastrous as George McGovern. Of course I’ll be hoping the whole time I’m wrong about this. 
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The scary thing is that this is the stuff we already know about -- it just hasn't been deployed yet.  God knows what else is already sitting in an opposition research file someplace ready to roll out in August.  

Edit: I don't think it's possible for a candidate of either party to lose the electoral college as badly as McGovern did.  The parties are tribal enough that any candidate will start with a floor of support of at least 40% nationally.  And those tribes have sorted themselves geographically, which means that any candidate is guaranteed to win at least a solid handful of states.  But that's kind of pedantic and I agree that Sanders would probably lose to Trump and it might not be close.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
FWIW, his surge is real.  Not sure what happened to give him a bump across every state at the same time, but his position is improving.
Click to expand...
The Elizabeth Warren/CNN stuff at the debate basically backfired on them.  It made it look like they were in the bag to try and take down Bernie whether it's true or not.  I know if I was a Bernie supporter I'd be even more motivated to get out and caucus/vote for him after that.

 
Shula-holic said:
The Elizabeth Warren/CNN stuff at the debate basically backfired on them.  It made it look like they were in the bag to try and take down Bernie whether it's true or not.  I know if I was a Bernie supporter I'd be even more motivated to get out and caucus/vote for him after that.
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I agree.  The media had been more or less ignoring Bernie, but then they gave him a ton of free publicity in the context of a clear and obvious cheap shot.  Warren and CNN were so blatantly unfair that it's hard for anybody not to come out of that exchange feeling a little more sympathetic toward Sanders.

 
BassNBrew said:
If you had to pick someone he most resembles in terms of message and honesty, would it be Hillary or Obama?  How did those elections work out?
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Now imagine an alternate universe in which Obama had a long public record of saying nice things about Al Qaeda and how the US should implement more sharia law.  There's your Bernie comparison.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I agree.  The media had been more or less ignoring Bernie, but then they gave him a ton of free publicity in the context of a clear and obvious cheap shot.  Warren and CNN were so blatantly unfair that it's hard for anybody not to come out of that exchange feeling a little more sympathetic toward Sanders.
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It's like the Democrats are somehow missing Sanders in the same way the Republicans did with Trump four years ago.  The party folks just assume Sanders is going to fade and can't win.  The fact is there are large groups of people that neither party has really spoken to.  I admit I missed it too at first with Trump and this just seems like just four years later the Democrats may be missing what's going on with Sanders.  Whether or not he has enough support to win the nomination I don't know but he's got a way better shot than I think they've long given him credit for.  He looks like the odds on favorite to win Iowa and New Hampshire both.  He also only lost the Nevada caucus by 5 points to Clinton in 2016.  I wouldn't write him off there either. The last USA today poll had him only 1 point down to Biden in Nevada.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Now imagine an alternate universe in which Obama had a long public record of saying nice things about Al Qaeda and how the US should implement more sharia law.  There's your Bernie comparison.
Click to expand...
Now imagine in an alternate universe in which a presidential candidate had a long public record of saying grab them in the ##### and it impacted the election.

 
It’s weird how Hillary’s loss has seemed to completely cause people to doubt a left of center Dem can ever again win at all. She was a uniquely terrible candidate with tons and tons of personal baggage. We also just came out of 8 years of a Dem president and classically some people like to ‘switch that up’. And she still barely lost by any measure.

Swinging the pendulum wayyyy the other way in Sanders seems suicidal. The general will completely be a referendum on Americans and Bernie’s ‘Socialism’ and not where it should be: Trump.

Seems crazy.

 
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BassNBrew said:
Now imagine in an alternate universe in which a presidential candidate had a long public record of saying grab them in the ##### and it impacted the election.
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It did impact the election -- Trump nearly lost to Clinton, and did lose the popular vote, mainly because of him being a terrible person.  A normal candidate would have beaten Clinton easily.

 
Starting to be more and more out there about these dark money groups from Bernie and AOC behind the scenes.

Not that this is exclusive to Bernie obviously...but something he and she have railed against but they have them too apparently.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
It did impact the election -- Trump nearly lost to Clinton, and did lose the popular vote, mainly because of him being a terrible person.  A normal candidate would have beaten Clinton easily.
Click to expand...
I'll concede, Bernie will only win the popular vote by 4% rather than 5% because he believes in peaceably resolution rather than bombing people who don't share our regilios views.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
BassNBrew said:
If you had to pick someone he most resembles in terms of message and honesty, would it be Hillary or Obama?  How did those elections work out?
Click to expand...
Now imagine an alternate universe in which Obama had a long public record of saying nice things about Al Qaeda and how the US should implement more sharia law.  There's your Bernie comparison.
Click to expand...
And an alternative universe where Obama was pledging Medicare for All, free college and elimination of all existing college debt for all, etc... without a clear plan to pay for it all, opening the door for Republicans to say it will be the middle class taxpayers and small business owners who have to pay the bill. There's your Bernie comparison.

 
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Shula-holic said:
It's like the Democrats are somehow missing Sanders in the same way the Republicans did with Trump four years ago.  ...  I admit I missed it too at first with Trump and this just seems like just four years later the Democrats may be missing what's going on with Sanders.  Whether or not he has enough support to win the nomination I don't know but he's got a way better shot than I think they've long given him credit for.  ....
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Exactly this.   Bernie supporters are getting stronger because they are being left out by the very party they supported for so long.

I also sense there are way more Trump supporters now than in 2016.    

Also agree with Tim that it could be McGovern like if it's Bernie vs Trump.

 
Bernie has a populist appeal very similar to Trump's. His messages play well in the battleground states. I don't think Bernie would get blown out by Trump, and I suspect that if people have a choice between populists, they might just choose the one who isn't a complete and utter scumbag.

 
Serious question — is there really that much of a Bernie historical video trail of pro-Castro, pro-whatever regime or is this simply people’s expectation? And from what some of you may have seen, was it really that bad? Or are you simply worried about optics/perception? Honestly asking....

 
Gr00vus said:
Bernie has a populist appeal very similar to Trump's. His messages play well in the battleground states. I don't think Bernie would get blown out by Trump, and I suspect that if people have a choice between populists, they might just choose the one who isn't a complete and utter scumbag.
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It's so difficult to know.  We aren't in a battleground state but while I support Trump my wife doesn't like him at all.  She plans to vote for Biden, Kloubachar, Mayor Pete, but would vote for Trump against Bernie or Warren.  He will get enthusiastic support and turnout from his core group like Trump does, the question is does it overcome those you alienate from the middle be it from an ideology standpoint in the case of Sanders or a personality standpoint in the case of Trump.

 
timschochet said:
First off Jennifer Rubin isn’t even a Democrat. She’s a conservative, and a Never Trumper, and like many others in her group (Rick Tyler, Max Boot, Bill Kristol, etc.) she believes that a progressive candidate will lose to Trump so she is hoping for a moderate Democrat. I agree with her. 

You can disagree with her, of course, but you’re making a mistake by accusing her of being part of this bogus Democratic Party establishment conspiracy. There is no evidence that the other article is related at all to the party, either. 

Please leave the conspiracies to the Republican Party. 
Click to expand...
I feel I’ve seen this exact same post some place....oh yes in this forum 4 years ago. There is no conspiracy, all these same forces are coming out of the wood work again for a Bernie take down. And I’m sure the Bernie supporters here love being lectured by “never Trumpers” who are attached at the MSM’s hip telling them their candidate is too progressive.

 
timschochet said:
This is, hopefully, the high water mark of Bernie’s campaign. 

I don’t dislike Bernie, I think he’s a good man, well meaning, and if he is the nominee against Trump I will happily vote for him without reservation. 

But I also think he will be rather easy to beat. Republicans will dig up video of his effusive praise for Fidel Castro, the old Soviet Union, and communist regimes around the world. And that will be only the beginning. It will be IMO a repeat of the recent Boris Johnson election in Britain: just like over there, I simply don’t believe that Americans will ever accept a candidate this far left. In terms of the electoral college it might be as disastrous as George McGovern. Of course I’ll be hoping the whole time I’m wrong about this. 
Click to expand...
I just don't understand why you seem so terrified to just try it out and see how it goes. Instead of thinking/hoping one thing or another the rest of out lives, let's put him up to the plate and see how he fairs, and actually find out for real.

But let me guess, I think I know your response...."well normally I'd be on board with that, but not in this election against Trump..." blah blah blah  :hophead:

 
ShamrockPride said:
I just don't understand why you seem so terrified to just try it out and see how it goes. Instead of thinking/hoping one thing or another the rest of out lives, let's put him up to the plate and see how he fairs, and actually find out for real.

But let me guess, I think I know your response...."well normally I'd be on board with that, but not in this election against Trump..." blah blah blah  :hophead:
Click to expand...
Better question is why he is okay with corporate welfare and not giving that money to citizens that need it.

 
ShamrockPride said:
I just don't understand why you seem so terrified to just try it out and see how it goes. Instead of thinking/hoping one thing or another the rest of out lives, let's put him up to the plate and see how he fairs, and actually find out for real.

But let me guess, I think I know your response...."well normally I'd be on board with that, but not in this election against Trump..." blah blah blah  :hophead:
Click to expand...
No that’s not my answer. I don’t agree with Bernie’s policies (many of them) and would never be on board with them. But if he gets the nomination I would certainly desire to give him a chance. 

 
KiddLattimer said:
Uptick in articles going after Sanders supporters, instead of Sanders himself.  Bold move for a party already concerned they wont support an establishment candidate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/01/27/bernie-sanderss-trump-like-campaign-is-disaster-democrats/

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/27/us/politics/bernie-sanders-internet-supporters-2020.html
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The Democrat establishment is using their “never Trump” buddies to help with the hatchet job on Bernie.  Jennifer Rubin, Max Boot, Bill Kristol, Rick Wilson etc. are all totally in the bag with the media and DNC to take out Bernie. 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Warren supporter here.  If Bernie beats her in the primary, I'll happily back Senator Sanders fo POTUS.  
Click to expand...
Bloomberg supporter if Bernie wins the nomination I staying home on Election Day.

 
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/480943-sanders-campaign-hits-dnc-over-new-debate-criteria-the-definition-of-a
 

Sanders campaign hits DNC over new debate criteria: 'The definition of a rigged system'

Sen. Bernie Sanders’s (I-Vt.) presidential campaign ripped the Democratic National Committee (DNC) over its new debate qualifications, which opened the way for Mike Bloomberg to take part, saying it is supporting “a rigged system.” 

The DNC on Friday said it would drop the donor threshold for the Feb. 19 primary debate in Nevada. The move could open the door for Bloomberg, a billionaire who is refusing any donations to his White House bid, to win a spot onstage.

Bloomberg, a former New York City mayor, has faced strong criticism from Sanders and other 2020 rivals for spending hundreds of millions on TV ads after entering the race.

“To now change the rules in the middle of the game to accommodate Mike Bloomberg, who is trying to buy his way into the Democratic nomination, is wrong. That’s the definition of a rigged system,” said Jeff Weaver, a senior adviser to Sanders’s campaign. 
Click to expand...

 
Mile High said:
He should be on the stage. What's Bernie afraid of?
Click to expand...
The unpredictable DNC obviously.  Even Steyer disagrees with it.  From the same link...
 

Businessman Tom Steyer, another billionaire running for president, also commented on the DNC's adjustment, hinting it was working to “accommodate” Bloomberg.

“Let’s make one thing clear: changing the rules now to accommodate Mike Bloomberg and not changing them in the past to ensure a more diverse debate stage is just plain wrong,” he said in a statement.

“The Democratic Party should be doing everything possible to ensure a diverse field of candidates. Instead, they are changing the rules for a candidate who is ignoring early states voters and grassroots donors.”
Click to expand...

 
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