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Best RBs in the NFL Based Purely on RUSHING Talent (1 Viewer)

sorry for the ill-posed question... & to eminence for the dupe question... :coffee:

but many of you did anticipate my intent...

maybe a better way to put it would have been...

if you were starting a team, wanted the best RBs based only on rushing ability (not factoring in blocking, receiving), & also for our purposes, under those circumstances, the concern about deangelo vying with stewart for a share of the workload would be thrown out the window...

i'll put up a deeper list, but already know what i know, & was interested in the thinking of others...

BTW, i do factor in age, because that & injury can rob a RB of effectiveness... of course, there can still be a debate about how much LT & westbrook have dropped off (if at all)... LT has been hurt twice in consecutive seasons... maybe they were flukey... we can infer from his age that he is slowing down, but tiki still played fast at this age (of course, he had a different running style)... i do like to examine each player on a case by case basis, & LT should be able to play faster than last year if his toe is fully recovered...
Obviously, with this clarification, Westbrook would no longer be in consideration. It's clearly Peterson, with Williams/Johnson a distant 2/3.
Yeah a team starting from scratch wouldn't want to make much of an investment in a player they would have to replace in a few years.I find this to be a difficult question to answer. Thanks for the further clairification though Bob.

I think Walter Payton is the best RB I have ever seen. And most of the games I saw him in were when he was in his later years. There was no talent or skill he did not possess.

Then you have LT who is a do it all RB also. I think he might be better at throwing the ball than Sweetness was but Walter could throw it too.

Barry Sanders. If he would have played longer or on a better team he possibly could have been considered #1. Never seen a guy be able to move so many different directions at once. Just ridiculous even trying to get a hand on him. As far as talent that really makes you go wow. How did he do that? I can't think of another RB like him.

Adrian Peterson. Not a good reciever and so not a complete back like these other guys. I almost don't want to mention him here because of that. And if I do then it is only fair to mention Earl Campbell and Eddie George too.

DeAngelo Williams. I think Williams is in some rare company. A young Tiki Barber or Westbrook who I also consider great RBs.

Marsall Faulk and Edge were great before the injuries robbed some of their talent. Portis too.

I don't consider Emmit Smith or Curtis Martin to meet the criteria of most talented RB. But they had the intangibles and the toughness to make things happen anyways.

 
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sorry for the ill-posed question... & to eminence for the dupe question... :coffee:but many of you did anticipate my intent...maybe a better way to put it would have been...if you were starting a team, wanted the best RBs based only on rushing ability (not factoring in blocking, receiving), & also for our purposes, under those circumstances, the concern about deangelo vying with stewart for a share of the workload would be thrown out the window...i'll put up a deeper list, but already know what i know, & was interested in the thinking of others...BTW, i do factor in age, because that & injury can rob a RB of effectiveness... of course, there can still be a debate about how much LT & westbrook have dropped off (if at all)... LT has been hurt twice in consecutive seasons... maybe they were flukey... we can infer from his age that he is slowing down, but tiki still played fast at this age (of course, he had a different running style)... i do like to examine each player on a case by case basis, & LT should be able to play faster than last year if his toe is fully recovered...
Obviously, with this clarification, Westbrook would no longer be in consideration. It's clearly Peterson, with Williams/Johnson a distant 2/3.
1. "All-Day"2. Jonathan Stewart3. Michael Turner4. Ronnie Brown5 (tie). DeAngelo Williams, "Beanie" Wells
 
Found this:

I think definition of what "skill set or talent" is needs clairification.

1. Speed. Can the rb break long gains and turn the corner making defenses cover the whole field?

2. Acceleration. Can the rb get to the hole quickly enough for consistent positive yards and change gears to make defenders miss?

2. Toughness. Can the rb handle multiple carries in a row without getting tired or wearing down? Also a factor later in the game.

3. Agility. Can the rb make defenders miss and change direction to the right hole in the defense?

4. Vision. Does the rb consistently choose the best path to positive yardage?

5. Breaking tackles. Does the rb run through tackles and with power? Agility is also a way a rb can break tackles. This would also include getting yards after contact which some rbs are better at than others.

5. Age. Rbs wear down as they get older. A younger player is still growing/improving.

6. Versitality. Can the rb be successful on multiple types of plays and systems? LT has a great passer rating on top of everything else he does well. Some RB can only play down hill between the tackles. Some work best getting outside in space. A RB that can do both makes it more difficult to defend him.

7. Recieving. Can the rb catch the ball well making him a dual threat and on more down/distance situations.

8. Blocking. Can the player pick up the blitz and help out on plays that he does not touch the ball?

9. Work Ethic. Does this player have the desire to be the best they can be?

10. Personality types. Some players are risks for suspension or worse being kicked out of the league. Or other drama issues like Travis Horny.

Feel free to add more to this if I left anything out.

 
Riffraff said:
I'll buck the trend and list some older RBs. This is based on talent, not necessarily age. I don't care about stats from 2008 in this conversation.1. Ladainian Tomlinson - Hall of famer. Vision and ability to make a defender miss are top notch. Carried a putrid Charger team into prominence.2. Fred Taylor - never on a powerhouse team. Above average stats. Kind of just glides. When he runs, its a thing of beauty to see.3. Adrian Peterson - new kid on the block. Has rare combo of speed and power. Has a chance to be an all-time great.4. Ricky Williams - in the non-dope years. Will always have the stigma as a headcase. But as a pure rusher, he was awesome to watch play.5. Frank Gore - Heart. One of the few RBs that I see run with true desire on every play (and I don't mean trying to hit defenders like Barber). Still think he can carry the 49'ers out of futility. I listed some older backs. They have proven over time to be much better than some of these hopefuls. Both through talent... and opportunity.I left off guys like Westbrook because the title of the thread distinctly asked for RUSHING talent. Westy isn't above the crowd without his receiving skills. Reggie Bush hasn't shown much in rushing talent.
Are you reading the question the same way I am?Fred Taylor and Ricky? c'mon man!
 
sorry for the ill-posed question... & to eminence for the dupe question... :goodposting:

but many of you did anticipate my intent...

maybe a better way to put it would have been...

if you were starting a team, wanted the best RBs based only on rushing ability (not factoring in blocking, receiving), & also for our purposes, under those circumstances, the concern about deangelo vying with stewart for a share of the workload would be thrown out the window...

i'll put up a deeper list, but already know what i know, & was interested in the thinking of others...

BTW, i do factor in age, because that & injury can rob a RB of effectiveness... of course, there can still be a debate about how much LT & westbrook have dropped off (if at all)... LT has been hurt twice in consecutive seasons... maybe they were flukey... we can infer from his age that he is slowing down, but tiki still played fast at this age (of course, he had a different running style)... i do like to examine each player on a case by case basis, & LT should be able to play faster than last year if his toe is fully recovered...
Obviously, with this clarification, Westbrook would no longer be in consideration. It's clearly Peterson, with Williams/Johnson a distant 2/3.
1. "All-Day"2. Jonathan Stewart

3. Michael Turner

4. Ronnie Brown

5 (tie). DeAngelo Williams, "Beanie" Wells

Dude, Beanie Wells and Stewart? Ok lets do this the right way!

Lets talk talent!

1. LT

2. ADP

3. SJax

4. MJD

5. Forte

If you talk talent, DWill couldnt even start over DeShaun in the early years, and If ur a supreme talent, well u wont sit behind him...and his own team is still worrying, drafting Stewart and Goodson.

Beanie? hey, did u type that with a straight face? His talent has not even been shown in the NFL...you prob said Kijana Carter years ago huh? Is he good, yes....IN COLLEGE, for you to put him in the top five never playing a game, lmao @ u....talent progresses different into the NFL!

Ronnie Brown, Talent? yes, top 5 NO....

Just My Opinion!

And of All-Time.....

1. Barry

2. Walter

3. LT

4. Emmitt

5. Big Jim

6. Faulk

7. OJ

8. Bo

9. Allen

10. Dickerson

Feel free to try to dispute those top 10!

 
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Riffraff said:
I'll buck the trend and list some older RBs. This is based on talent, not necessarily age. I don't care about stats from 2008 in this conversation.1. Ladainian Tomlinson - Hall of famer. Vision and ability to make a defender miss are top notch. Carried a putrid Charger team into prominence.2. Fred Taylor - never on a powerhouse team. Above average stats. Kind of just glides. When he runs, its a thing of beauty to see.3. Adrian Peterson - new kid on the block. Has rare combo of speed and power. Has a chance to be an all-time great.4. Ricky Williams - in the non-dope years. Will always have the stigma as a headcase. But as a pure rusher, he was awesome to watch play.5. Frank Gore - Heart. One of the few RBs that I see run with true desire on every play (and I don't mean trying to hit defenders like Barber). Still think he can carry the 49'ers out of futility. I listed some older backs. They have proven over time to be much better than some of these hopefuls. Both through talent... and opportunity.I left off guys like Westbrook because the title of the thread distinctly asked for RUSHING talent. Westy isn't above the crowd without his receiving skills. Reggie Bush hasn't shown much in rushing talent.
Are you reading the question the same way I am?Fred Taylor and Ricky? c'mon man!
I answered before they changed the criteria to just starting a team. But I did answer on RUSHING talent only, not last year's fantasy stats (which is what most people are replying with). Two years ago, guys like Turner and DeAngelo wouldn't have been in the conversation, but I would still have been fine with the guys I selected for rushing talent.
 
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If you talk talent, DWill couldnt even start over DeShaun in the early years, and If ur a supreme talent, well u wont sit behind him...and his own team is still worrying, drafting Stewart and Goodson.
Ahhhh....the age-old, misguided slam on Deangelo rears it's ugly head again. There were two mitigating factors that kept DeWill from starting over Foster. The first is that Coach Fox favors the incumbent vets over the young guys. Always has. This is nothing new. The whole world saw how much more explosive and talented a runner Deangelo was than Foster, but that didn't change a thing. We saw it in his limited playing time as a 2nd year player (5.0 ypc on 144 rushes) and as a record setting college RB. It frustrated us for a long time. Last year proved how right we all were and how wrong Fox was. The 2nd factor in Deangelo sitting behind Foster was his inability to pass block. He couldn't pick up a blitz to save his life. The coaching staff just didn't trust him in passing situations. Fox opted to keep the not-so-nimble Delhomme from getting killed and kept Foster as the starter. This past season showed just how special this kid is. He knew he needed to get better and he did. And it showed.When the Panthers drafted Stewart, I believe they did so for two reasons. Every team in the league is basically going to a 2-back system. Also, Stewart was the #1 guy on their board, so they went with BPA. Pretty simple.Deangelo is firmly in my Top 5 from a talent perspective. FWIW, Stewart isn't far out of my Top 5. He resides in the back half of my Top 10.
 
sorry for the ill-posed question... & to eminence for the dupe question... :)

but many of you did anticipate my intent...

maybe a better way to put it would have been...

if you were starting a team, wanted the best RBs based only on rushing ability (not factoring in blocking, receiving), & also for our purposes, under those circumstances, the concern about deangelo vying with stewart for a share of the workload would be thrown out the window...

i'll put up a deeper list, but already know what i know, & was interested in the thinking of others...

BTW, i do factor in age, because that & injury can rob a RB of effectiveness... of course, there can still be a debate about how much LT & westbrook have dropped off (if at all)... LT has been hurt twice in consecutive seasons... maybe they were flukey... we can infer from his age that he is slowing down, but tiki still played fast at this age (of course, he had a different running style)... i do like to examine each player on a case by case basis, & LT should be able to play faster than last year if his toe is fully recovered...
Obviously, with this clarification, Westbrook would no longer be in consideration. It's clearly Peterson, with Williams/Johnson a distant 2/3.
Yeah a team starting from scratch wouldn't want to make much of an investment in a player they would have to replace in a few years.I find this to be a difficult question to answer. Thanks for the further clairification though Bob.

I think Walter Payton is the best RB I have ever seen. And most of the games I saw him in were when he was in his later years. There was no talent or skill he did not possess.

Then you have LT who is a do it all RB also. I think he might be better at throwing the ball than Sweetness was but Walter could throw it too.

Barry Sanders. If he would have played longer or on a better team he possibly could have been considered #1. Never seen a guy be able to move so many different directions at once. Just ridiculous even trying to get a hand on him. As far as talent that really makes you go wow. How did he do that? I can't think of another RB like him.

Adrian Peterson. Not a good reciever and so not a complete back like these other guys. I almost don't want to mention him here because of that. And if I do then it is only fair to mention Earl Campbell and Eddie George too.

DeAngelo Williams. I think Williams is in some rare company. A young Tiki Barber or Westbrook who I also consider great RBs.

Marsall Faulk and Edge were great before the injuries robbed some of their talent. Portis too.

I don't consider Emmit Smith or Curtis Martin to meet the criteria of most talented RB. But they had the intangibles and the toughness to make things happen anyways.
:goodposting: Fantastic post. I think you broke down everything perfectly.

 
i'm not explaining myself clearly...

i meant to leave out extraneous non-rushing related factors like receiving or blocking... i realize blocking can be important to seeing the field, but usually supremely talented RBs find a way to see the field, even if they can't stone blitzing LBs... if they are so bad they get their QB put in the hospital it is a big problem (& as was noted above, may have been part of deangelo's problem in his first few years), but it seems that if a player is a enough of a physical specimen & athlete to be an elite RB, they probably have what it takes to be better than a catastrophic weakness in pass pro, assuming a modicum of application, willingness, attitude, competent instruction & coaching, etc...

westbrook is made a better OVERALL weapon by being one of the best receiving RBs of his generation (with marshall faulk), & can split out like a WR, but i am more interested in capturing how the SP views the relative RUSHING skills across the NFL RB-scape...

i didn't mean to include external factors that were supporting cast/surrounding talent-related... but i unwittingly intruded dynasty considerations with the starting from scratch remark (clumsily phrased for my intent)... so i would have done better to say, leaving out all extraneous factors like blocking, receiving & who they play with (or are in a RBBC), who would you want THIS YEAR... if you see LT/westbrook having no/little appreciable dropoff, rank them accordingly highly...

of course, that will contain dynasty-related information... depending on if you see LT/westbrook going up/down/sideways, you could have markedly different views on their value...

another factor that could be included is injury potential... not for the long term, but if you think a RB is more likely to miss some time THIS YEAR, dock him accordingly... my personal feeling is that predicting injury is a dark art akin to voodoo... however, if you look at steven jackson & see that he has missed a few games in a season a few times & hasn't been in the league that long, i could see how that might conceivably alter his ranking... there could be a difference (albeit maybe small) if he were more commonly viewed as an iron man, than if he never missed a game (perhaps jonathan stewart has some questions to answer, on that score)...

as to top RBs of all time, i wrote an article about my personal top 10 a few years ago & will see if i can track it down & if so will post here...

the best RBs i've seen (by this i mean film highlights in some cases), listed roughly chronologically...

jim brown - my father used to say the only reason i didn't have him #1 is because i never saw him, & i countered that i saw the highlights... eventually i came to agree, though... some RBs on this list are more well rounded than others... he was the complete package... size, strength, elite speed (for his time), vision, instincts, elusiveness... what maybe set him apart most (& he was already apart from his contemporaries just from above list) was his extreme competitiveness... & just a freaky, freaky athlete... probably could have been a pro basketball, baseball player, a boxer, even a decathlete with training... my favorite highlight was on one run when he lowered his head, bowled over TWO defenders, understandable lost his balance momentarily, had to spin while almost falling to the ground, than righted himself... dominant example of power, balance & athleticism...

gale sayers - not a long career, not a power back, but the best vision, instincts, moves & open field running ability i've ever seen, along with sanders... for me his signature play was when he had broke free & a defender closing on him from behind tried to sideswipe his head... even though it didn't appear from the angle of his head he could have SEEN him, he somehow FELT him, & ducked it at the last split second (maybe his periperal vision, maybe he heard/felt it like a ninja RB with heightened senses?)...

OJ simpson - in his time, great size, world class speed (don't remember if he ANCHORED USCs world record 4 X 100 relay team, but he was on it), all the other traits you like to see in elite RBs...

walter payton - i don't think he was as big, as strong, as fast, as elusive as some of the other RBs that populate this list... but he did EVERYTHING really well, he made the most of the ability he had maybe more than any other RB, & may have had the biggest heart... he may have had the best balance i've seen, along with sanders again (he seems to be coming up in elite trait comparisons a lot... hhhmmm :) )... when i think of his signature traits, i think of him being like a human gyroscope, that would at times get knocked back (or more likely sideways, he didn't get knocked back often), would almost fall down, but would miraculously right himself from some impossibly crazy angles... needless to say, fun to watch... i also remember him for his toughness, & never running out of bounds... also, for his deceptively powerful upper body, & one of the more devastating stiff arms i've seen (when it wasn't nearly as common as it is now)...

earl campbell - guys that big just aren't supposed to move like that... his thighs could block out the sun... not sure if i've seen a LB get gored by a RB like isaiah robertson... his reckless, punishing, violent collision-friendly running style must have contributed to his short shelf life... he turned into a pumpkin by around 27, as i recall... his legs made him hard for LINEMAN to bring down, he was quicker & faster than most LBs, & his size & power made him a complete mismatch with DBs in the open field...

eric dickerson - like brown before him, he was sort of a mutant of his generation... certain people like magic (to illustrate from another sport) come along that are just, plain UNPRECEDENTED... before magic, there had never been (& still hasn't, probably, with apologies to lebron) a 6'9" dude with a handle like that & bob cousy-like virtuouso passing skills... dickerson was nearly as big as brown & faster (maybe a lot faster)... to my recollection, up to that that time, there had never been a RB that big that fast (or if you prefer, that fast, that big :) )... i grew up in LA a rams fan, & it became obvious virtually immediately, fairly early in his rookie season, that he was a rare, special talent that doesn't come along often, & that he had a chance to become one of the best that ever played (he no doubt realized that formidable potential)... my favorite play was, & i'm not sure if it was the student body right, but he would sort of glide horizontally, letting the OL string the front seven out, & then he would wait for an opportune time/hole before seemingly instantly exploding through it... this highlighted & underscored his excellent patience, as well as vision & instincts... maybe because of his size or running style he didn't look like he was running that fast (robert smith was somewhat like this on the latter point, it looked like he was coasting/cruising), for a few years DBs had trouble dealing with his shocking speed for a big man & took bad angles... in the early years, it seemed like he didn't even have to reverse field, & scored many uncontested long TD runs straight up the field or down the sideline... some RBs with size aren't necessarily tough, but he was a handful that could also break tackles... i will always wonder whether if he had stayed with the rams great OL (slater, et al), he would have obliterated all the rushing yard records to the point where even emmitt wouldn't have touched him?

bo jackson - jackson upped the ante on dickerson, & was again unprecented in his time... legit 4.3 speed at 230 hadn't been seen before, i don't think... no idea what he could have done if he hadn't hurt his hip & divided his time/attention with baseball...

barry sanders - already talked about barry above... best balance & elusiveness i've seen (with payton & sayers)... quicker & more elusive than payton, stronger & more tackle breaking power than sayers... the only player i've seen in the history of ANY sport that moves like a cartoon character & seemingly routinely defied the laws of physics...

mashall faulk - phenomenal speed, quickness, shiftiness, moves... on this list, i won't exclude overall talent (best ever, period)... i don't remember lydell mitchell, who was before my time, but faulk was the first RB i recall that had good enough route running ability & hands that he could be deployed interchangeably with WRs, causing horrific mismatches for LBs & safeties... you almost needed a CB (& a GOOD CB :) ), to cover him... for a guy that wasn't that big, he was one of the best goal line runners ever (along with marcus allen), which speaks to his great timing, vision, instincts...

LT - in his prime, nothing he couldn't do... the total package...

peterson - 296 yards as a rookie... in some ways reminiscent of the way dickerson took the league by storm as a rookie, & also of bo jackson in terms of how superior a physical specimen & athlete he is... may be a more natural runner than bo, in terms of vision, instincts & elusiveness...

i forget if i had OJ in this previous list? pretty sure i didn't have peterson yet (it may have been before his rookie season)... i don't have emmitt here & i think i did before, so perhaps i've changed my thinking...

i don't have a problem with emmitt being highly ranked... it would have been interesting to see sanders behind DAL OL & smith reversed to DET... clearly smith would have done worse... for years in his prime, the OL (erik williams, nate newton, stepnowski?, among others) was so good that smith often wasn't even touched until he was 6-7 yards downfield (if that :) )... but maybe it isn't that simple... smith was perfect for DAL style... sanders is a guy that might get caught behind the LOS two times (but probably less in DAL), than would bust a 70 yard run... so for aikman's surgical, methodical drives, you could make a case that emmitt was a great fit...

i used to underestimate emmitt (& maybe still do to an extent, since he isn't in my top 10 even)... but to give credit where credit is due, he had great short area burst (like jerry rice in the WR domain), thick & powerful lower body, great contact balance, phenomenal vision & instincts, & deceptive, underrated elusiveness (not sanders-like, but again, perhaps he was dissed because he did run through gaping holes at times... but when i looked more carefully & the holes shrunk, he still usually picked the right one & found a way to get through it)... almost everything but breakaway speed...

BTW, steven jackson & jonathan stewart are contemporary RBs that comprise very impressive size/strength/speed combinations...

* i don't buy the argument that deangelo couldn't be elite because he didn't take the league by storm in his first few years... if he is as good as i think he is & will be, i do concede it seems to be ODD, historically, & usually great backs assert themselves quickly/immediately... but if a basketball player didn't do much his first two years, & proceeded to average 40 points a game in the NBA for a season, we would have to take notice & say he looks like a genuine talent... in theory, you should be able to use your scouting lenses & break down their performance within the context of THAT SEASON...

** to those that think last years number of long TD runs by deangelo was flukey, i'd like to return to the sanders comparisons... williams also has powerful lower body, great balance, tackle-breaking power, great stop-start & cut-on-a-dime ability, great vision & instincts... but at least towards the end of sanders' career, he got dragged down from behind a lot (westbrook is not that fast, but has among the best first step quickness in the league at any position... at least, he used to?)... deangelo didn't get caught from behind too much... based on the visual evidence i was presented with last year (saw, not read), at least compared to later barry (not trying to avoid an apples to apples comparison by evading the comparable stage of their career evaluation, but stating it that way because that is when i remember sanders best, so that is what i can speak to), deangelo may have better wheels & be more dangerous & explosive in the open field in terms of finishing...

 
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I think it is really hard to compare any one to Barry Sanders. Like Bob mentions above (GP btw) he hasn't see any player in any sport be able to change direntions, sometimes moving in opposite directions at once (I know how did he do that?) like Sanders would do all the time, every time he played.

One of the benifits of being a Vikings fan is I got to see a lot of Barry Sanders games. Both the Vikings and the Bears had 2 of the best defenses in the league at that time but it didn't matter. When Dungy was the DC he would just tell the defenders to stay disciplined in covering their rushing lanes and just wait.. Barry would be back soon enough. Then you just have to tackle him lol

As far as DeAngelo Williams - I do think he has elite agility and balance perhaps near the level of Barry Sanders even. But his style is more downhill. He makes quick decisions and goes with it and doesen't dance around looking for a hole (or trying to make a new one) like Barry did.

If I thought Priest Holmes was a elite talent his style and the situation may have some commonality with Williams. But I think Willams is more talented than Holmes ever was. Holmes was just in a great situation behind one of the better blocking lines in the past 10 years.

Eventualy I think we will have seen enough of Williams that his style will become better known to everyone and a talent we will be comparing future RBs to. Willams MJD and Peterson are imo the best RB to have come into the league since LT.

 
i've never seen a player like sanders that could be running full speed, plant with one foot, come to a complete stop, bounce sidweways & back five yards, than be up to full speed in two strides going the opposite direction...

his secret is that he was a cyborg sent from the future to kill defenses, made with carbon fiber bones & spider web composite ligaments & tendons... :)

 
Thanks for the awesome thread Bob. This is a really hard question for me. I don't watch nearly as much football, especialy college football as a lot of guys here do.

I think this is a good instance where the perspective of a guy like Wildman who watches so many games becomes really useful. And I would like to hear his thoughts on this if he can find the time.

Also Gatorman, Razorback, coolnerd and some other posters here usualy have good insight on players coming into the league that I have come to trust.

Oh yeah and offdee, aposoli (sp?) and I am sure a grip of guys I am just forgetting right now.

 
JuSt CuZ said:
kremenull said:
renesauz said:
Bob Magaw said:
sorry for the ill-posed question... & to eminence for the dupe question... :)

but many of you did anticipate my intent...

maybe a better way to put it would have been...

if you were starting a team, wanted the best RBs based only on rushing ability (not factoring in blocking, receiving), & also for our purposes, under those circumstances, the concern about deangelo vying with stewart for a share of the workload would be thrown out the window...

i'll put up a deeper list, but already know what i know, & was interested in the thinking of others...

BTW, i do factor in age, because that & injury can rob a RB of effectiveness... of course, there can still be a debate about how much LT & westbrook have dropped off (if at all)... LT has been hurt twice in consecutive seasons... maybe they were flukey... we can infer from his age that he is slowing down, but tiki still played fast at this age (of course, he had a different running style)... i do like to examine each player on a case by case basis, & LT should be able to play faster than last year if his toe is fully recovered...
Obviously, with this clarification, Westbrook would no longer be in consideration. It's clearly Peterson, with Williams/Johnson a distant 2/3.
1. "All-Day"2. Jonathan Stewart

3. Michael Turner

4. Ronnie Brown

5 (tie). DeAngelo Williams, "Beanie" Wells

Dude, Beanie Wells and Stewart? Ok lets do this the right way!

Lets talk talent!

1. LT

2. ADP

3. SJax

4. MJD

5. Forte

If you talk talent, DWill couldnt even start over DeShaun in the early years, and If ur a supreme talent, well u wont sit behind him...and his own team is still worrying, drafting Stewart and Goodson.

Beanie? hey, did u type that with a straight face? His talent has not even been shown in the NFL...you prob said Kijana Carter years ago huh? Is he good, yes....IN COLLEGE, for you to put him in the top five never playing a game, lmao @ u....talent progresses different into the NFL!

Ronnie Brown, Talent? yes, top 5 NO....

Just My Opinion!

And of All-Time.....

1. Barry

2. Walter

3. LT

4. Emmitt

5. Big Jim

6. Faulk

7. OJ

8. Bo

9. Allen

10. Dickerson

Feel free to try to dispute those top 10!
Stewart, DeA, and "Beanie" are a notch or two above S-Jax in talent. S-Jax is not fast at all, probably would clock somewhere around 4.6 right now (+/- .03), doesn't have great burst nor does he display great vision. Is he a workhorse, run hard between the tackles kind of player? Sure. But based on pure talent, each one of the players I listed are far superior than him, IMO. Stewart will show all the non-believers how "beastly" he is.......in '09! And keep sleeping on Wells. I didn't get a chance to roster him in any dynasty leagues thus far, but I hope you and all others sleep on him in my redrafts.......As far as the Ki-Jana statement, I would put my track record of evaluating RBs vs yours anytime.....Anybody that has Jim Brown listed 5th All-Time and Marcus Allen anywhere in their Top 15 (ahead of Dickerson, no less), I'd have to question their analysis....... :confused: Any homerism in there?

 
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This is a tough question as an NFL RB's rushing talent can diminish so quickly due to the pounding....my top 5 two years ago would look largely different than my top 5 going into this upcoming NFL season. But, I believe Bob is asking based on the PRESENT group of NFL RB's going into wk.1 of this upcoming season all 100% healthy...who are the top guys in RUNNING the ball only (not taking into account receiving, blocking, etc.)

With that in mind, my top 5 are:

1) Adrian Peterson: no question about it...guy is a physical specimen running the ball. No other RB even comes close to his speed + power combination.

2) DeAngelo Williams: terrific vision combined with extraordinary balance make him a bear to tackle. Has the speed to make defenses pay if they don't take him down early.

3) LaDainian Tomlinson: unbelievable vision. Has definitely lost a step and the pounding is starting to catch up with him, but assuming he's healthy to start the season there aren't many scarier RB's for a defense to face on the ground.

4) Michael Turner: Turner is AD-lite...speed & power combo that is rare, but both still a couple notches below Peterson.

5) Clinton Portis: like LT2, time is catching up with him, but when healthy his vision, power and cutback ability is top notch.

Honorable mention:

6) Maurice Jones-Drew

7) Frank Gore

8) Brian Westbrook

9) Darren McFadden

10) Steven Jackson

 
1) ADP. The most dominating force I've seen take a handoff since Bo Jackson.

2) MJD. Pocket Rocket is hard to hit, and hits hard. Taking him down is a team effort and catching him is a one man show. Just hope that one man isn't already on the ground.

3) LT2. He's on the decline, otherwise his savy would put him near Peterson, but not quite. He's not the powerfull ball of acceleration that Peterson is, but being handed the ball is an invitation to the goal line, regardless of field position.

4) Ronnie. Two years ago, he was devastation incarnated. Two years removed from his injury I expect him to be back. He has done more with less than any RB in the league. Each injury has been freak and unrelated.

5) Turner. When healthy, he is one of the few that can lock away a game from the opening of the 2nd quarter. Jacobs would be here if he could stay healthy, but Turner is a battering ram that doesn't slow down.

Honorable mention -

6) SJax. Size/speed is top notch, but like many others on this list, his toughness/durability come into question. Not as dynamic as Ronnie, but very close.

7) Jacobs. Durability only keeps him out of my top 4.

8) LJ. Many forget what he did recently when healthy. Angriest runner in the NFL with the 2nd gear to go with it.

9) Barber. 2nd angriest runner in the NFL.

10) Portis. Rocked up little guy. The biggest, toughest, little speed-back.

Final cut -

11) Westy. A couple years ago. Age and injuries have caught up.

12) Ray Rice. You'll see soon enough. A guy who gets the most possible for his ability out of every single carry.

13) Stewart. SJax all over again.

14) Moreno. Walter light.

15) D. Williams. Very good overall running package. Strong for a small guy, and brings some pop with his pads.

Disclaimer - This list is based ONLY on who I would want to take a handoff for my favorite team. My favorite team being the Steelers, you can guess I prefer the guys who can deliver a pounding better than they take one. The kind of back that can close out a game with a 10 point lead in the 2nd quarter.

 
chidoy said:
3 - SJAX.... (when Never healthy)
Fixed.Larry Johnson is one of the best pure runners in the NFL, great combo of speed and size.

Tomlinson is the best.

Peterson.

Portis.

MJD

Felix Jones, for all we know, could be the next great RB :mellow:

 
1. Peterson

2. D. Williams

3. MJD

4. R. Brown

5. S. Jackson

6. C. (Beanie) Wells

7. Gore

8. Portis

9. J. Stewart

10. C. Johnson

 
Based only on RUSHING TALENT - I think Ced Benson should be up there. This guys talent is off the charts. Although it has been wasted talent thusfar.
Surprised "a_rackowski" did not take more abuse for this post back in May, he stuck his neck out while the Benson hatred was still running strong. Back in May this was still a stretch but now Benson can at least enter the conversation.
 
1. Peterson

2. D. Williams

3. MJD

4. R. Brown

5. S. Jackson

6. C. (Beanie) Wells

7. Gore

8. Portis

9. J. Stewart

10. C. Johnson
Johnson way too low, Deangelo Williams way too high, and really, Beanie up there that high? Wow.
I actually contemplated Williams at the 1 spot. Williams has been getting underrated around here for years. Eventually you guys will see the light.
 
1. Peterson

2. D. Williams

3. MJD

4. R. Brown

5. S. Jackson

6. C. (Beanie) Wells

7. Gore

8. Portis

9. J. Stewart

10. C. Johnson
Johnson way too low, Deangelo Williams way too high, and really, Beanie up there that high? Wow.
I actually contemplated Williams at the 1 spot. Williams has been getting underrated around here for years. Eventually you guys will see the light.
Williams is a good player. Above ADP is just ludicrous (even thinking about it is just crazy), above Johnson IMO is pretty silly as well. Ronnie and SJ both should go above, Gore potentially as well. I think in due time (couple of years) we'll be saying his teammate Stewart is above him also.
 
Can Ricky Williams enter the discussion now? JSTEW? Marshawn Lynch is an animal but the opportunity seems to keep eluding him. Chris Johnson #1?

 
DeAngelo Williams is still underrated I believe. The only guy mentioned with a higher career YPC is Chris Johnson.

Williams is strong, fast, quick, elusive, has good vision etc. Name a characteristic that you want in a back, and he has it. He has been knocked for size a bit, but really he's got the prototypical build you look for. He was a true stud in college as well of course (he had more 100 yard games than anyone in NCAA history).

People think the Carolina line pads his stats, and they are very solid, but I'm not sure he wouldn't be doing just as well somewhere else with a decent line. The Panthers just happen to have two amazingly talented RBs.

Williams is in the top 5 for sure, and probably top 3 in my book - right there with ADP and Johnson.

 
On talent. Not age or team. And still playing today.

1) LT2

2) Chris Johnson

3) Adrian Peterson

4) Frank Gore

5) Clinton Portis

6) Jonathan Stewart

7) DeAngelo Williams

8) Fred Taylor

9) MJD

10) Ricky Williams

 
On talent. Not age or team. And still playing today.1) LT22) Chris Johnson3) Adrian Peterson4) Frank Gore5) Clinton Portis6) Jonathan Stewart7) DeAngelo Williams8) Fred Taylor9) MJD10) Ricky Williams
MJD grossly underestimated on this list!
 
DeAngelo is #1 because rushing talent includes holding onto the football IMO

2. CJ3

3. ADP

 
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My top 5 would be:

ADP

DeWill

CJ2

MJD

JStew

Not sure how LT can even be listed as a top 20 or 30 guy at this point, he was awful last year. I think it is suppose to be based on "todays" NFL, not 4 years ago.

 
DesmondBishop said:
My top 5 would be:ADPDeWillCJ2MJDJStewNot sure how LT can even be listed as a top 20 or 30 guy at this point, he was awful last year. I think it is suppose to be based on "todays" NFL, not 4 years ago.
I thought based on who is playing today...in their prime no age or situation invloved...just pure talent. Not performance either. Pure talent.
 
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incorporating last year, since this was bumped...

chris johnson obviously needs to be in conversation for best of the best...

i had some doubts about his ability to run inside, but he showed surprising strength and balance (on one of his 85 yard runs - think he set a record with THREE last season... not sure if anybody else has that many in a CAREER?)... also impressed me with his patience, vision and open field running instincts... he might be the quickest/fastest player in league history at ANY position, obviously an advantage when he breaks into the clear.

MJD deserved more credit, last year was his first as the clear feature RB... he is helped by tree trunk thighs and low center of gravity...

rice reminds me of a young brian westbrook... it doesn't bear on his intrinsic talent, but as a fantasy force he is hurt by not getting used around the goal line...

for a rams fan, i curiously left off steven jackson... what would he have been capable of in recent years behind an elite OL like jets, titans, panthers, etc... he is a special size/strength/speed combo... not sure he has elite elusiveness...

frank gore also probably should have gotten more mention from me (in a deeper list)... it also doesn't reflect on his inherent talent, but with the infusion of OL talent, he could be a (bigger) monster in 2010...

michael "the burner" turner should also have been included in a deeper list... maybe not super nifty, but juggernaut power/speed combo... very daunting assignment for DBs tasked with bringing him down in the open field... another year removed from beating he took in 2008, reportedly in better shape, and wasn't used much before ATL...

after deangelo went out, stewart showed the ability to be a dominant RB... he appears to have top 3-5 ability, if not opportunity... i would still rather have deangelo in redraft (though the carry distribution could begin to even out this year), but stewart would be a no brainer in dynasty...

chris wells reminds me of stewart in some ways... maybe not quite the elite burst and top end speed, but great size/strength/speed combo, might have the best stiff arm in the NFL... when i look at steven jackson and wells, there is nothing obvious to me that jackson has over wells (other than ARI has a competent RB2)... again, it doesn't bear on his intrinsic talent, but there are some systemic questions that are holding his redraft (and dynasty?) value back... if leinart and the defense aren't as bad as some think, wells will surprise... not sure if it happens this year or next, but barring injury, i think he has the talent to be the next great young RB in the league (eventual top 5 upside)...

didn't get a chance to see jamaal charles last year... it will be interesting to see how he follows up his incendiary second half...

of the rookies, i was extremely impressed with best... phenomenal skills & pure, natural running talent... disturbing injury history, but the worst one (where he was catapulted 10 feet in the air and got a concussion) looked flukey, and not likely to be replicated... if he can avoid the injury bug, wouldn't surprise me at all to see him emerge as not only best RB from the class, but one of the best in the league in a few years... that could be a big if, though (he will be pounded on by bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic defenders)... than again, you can't hit what you can't catch... :yes: he will be helped by likely facing spread out defenses that have to contend with calvin johnson, burleson, scheffler & pettigrew...

* RBs can hit the wall hard... doubtful LT or westbrook would get any mention just a year later...

** not sure if he can run inside (or stay healthy), but felix jones has put up crazy YPC averages past few years... it looked like he broke out in the playoffs last year... he is obviously far more explosive and dangerous than barber in the open field... definitely a developing RB situation to follow very closely this season... imo, on paper, the cowboys have the most firepower on offense in the league in 2010...

 
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On talent. Not age or team. And still playing today.1) LT22) Chris Johnson3) Adrian Peterson4) Frank Gore5) Clinton Portis6) Jonathan Stewart7) DeAngelo Williams8) Fred Taylor9) MJD10) Ricky Williams
If you're talking pure talent regardless of their age (in other words when they were in their heyday), Ricky Williams is easily in the top 3 of this list if not higher, only behind LT2 and AP and that's tough to even put them ahead of him.
 
1. AP (Amazing skill set. Acceleration and agility in close quarters)2. LT (A complete HOF back.)3. Westbrook (The best agility I've seen since Faulk and Barry)4. SJax (A fast, big punisher. But I do see a lack of ELITE agility)5. Turner (Too bad he didn't get a chance to start earlier. He's a rare combination of power, speed, and balance.)6. MJD (Not the typical 5'6" back. He's small and powerfull, good hands, but has surprisingly stiffer hips than I would expect.)7. Chris Johnson (He's a freak but I question the total package. Maybe too high...)8. Portis (All around skills, I could easily rank him higher)9. Gore (Balance, Power, Drive. Gore just stays standing)10. Jacobs (Reminds me of SJax minus the hands with a little more power)11. Williams (I have a hard time ranking Willaims/Stewart after last season and their dominant o-line) I like them both but have to see more. Both could easily be top 5 in the SJax/MJD area.
Revising my rankings a year later. I'm taking into account talent and not opportunity. However, I'm looking at current skillset (not guys past their prime). I'm not sure if I approached it in the same fashion last year but here goes. Interesting notes LT, Westy, and portis showed their age last year. I don't believe any of them have the burst they once had. It's a young man's position. Turner slipped a bit because of a rough season. I think with a reduced workload he still is a top 10 talent. However, he and sjax are the two that worry me the most about falling off the cliff sooner than later.1. Chris Johnson (He proved it. He can run inside, catch, and do about everything. A weapon in the true sense.)2. ADP (The guy is a stud. Hard worker, he's got the moves, pass catching is improving, and he's a beast to bring down. Although that quality leads to his fumbles)3. MJD (Answered all the questions last year with a 300 carry workload. Well done)4. SJax (Remains the same based on skillset. He's got to be careful because his skills might start declining soon before being showing his full potential)5. Rice (He showed that he has the complete skill set. That offense produced crazy rushing stats last year. If it continues he could climb even higher)6. DWill (Three straight years averging 5 ypc. He's a one cut back that can make someone miss and take it to the house)7. Gore (This RB can do it all and is a true professional on the field. A perfect example of very good at everything, elite at nothing... just feed him the rock.)8. Stewart (A tough runner who has the speed and shiftiness of a man in a smaller frame. What turner could have been if he played at a younger age)9. Turner (See last years write up... it all still applies. I just hope the workload doesn't catch up sooner than later.)10. Charles (This pick might be dead wrong. However, I saw this player exhibit such amazing balance on some runs that I would call it elite. Now does his whole game translate?)11. Wells (I went 11 deep because I do feel that wells is in this category. He has some serious burst and maybe should be as high as Stewart. He's the perfect person for this list, the opportunity wasn't there last year. However, I believe the talent was)The next group of guys I would choose from would be some of the rookies: Best, Spiller, Mathews, Moreno, Mendy. A grab bag of unproven backs with very good skill sets.Then there are the guys with lesser skills sets that have produced in some fashion: Forte, Greene, Thomas Jones, Peirre, Barber, McCoy, Felix (yeah I know some of u won't like him in this group). Ryan Grant is the prototypical flag carrier for these guys.
 
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