Sabertooth
Footballguy
Which of these guys grades out better. I am reading that the Lions are looking at Willis? Is he this good?
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Better prospect? Patrick Willis or AJ Hawk? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sabertooth
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pgreenfan
Footballguy
The only way I can see the Lions taking Willis is if the Lions trade down. Cardinals could be tempted to trade up and make sure they get Thomas.Edit to add, I like Willis a lot but I don't think he is the #2 prospect in this draft.
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That's too early but I would figure Lions fans might be OK with Millen(a former LBer) taking a linebacker that everyone else is lovin' this time of year too. See my guess is Lions fans just don't want a bust. Yeah they might want a certain player or two but the closer the draft gets I bet they just don't want to feel like their team got "burned". Willis should satisfy that pretty well.Any Lions fans wanna chime in here?
-OZ-
Footballguy
We took Ernie Sims last year, probably the best 1st round pick in 18 years. I don't think Willis is a good value at the 2, but he'll be a good player.ETA: ok, not quite the best in 18 years - Roy Williams is arguably better, and Herman Moore in 1991. (oddly, both WRs - dang we take a lot of those in the 1st)But the fact that I'm even thinking this, is a sad statement.
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http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...howtopic=309962
I agree that he is not #2 overall good put Willis is Top 15 talent; has the tools and measureables to play 3 downs; is a sure tackler; will have an immediate on field ROI and is not a player with very much, if any, risk associated with him.
I think he is every bit the player that Hawk is. If the Lions could somehow trade down and take Willis, it would be one of the best things that could happen to that team and defense.
I agree that he is not #2 overall good put Willis is Top 15 talent; has the tools and measureables to play 3 downs; is a sure tackler; will have an immediate on field ROI and is not a player with very much, if any, risk associated with him.
I think he is every bit the player that Hawk is. If the Lions could somehow trade down and take Willis, it would be one of the best things that could happen to that team and defense.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
They're just different enough that it's difficult to say.
Hawk graded out very highly as an all-around OLB last year. Rangy, instinctive, quick and above average in every phase of the game, including pass rush capability. Willis really stands out this year because of the relative lack of stud ILB prospects available, but doesn't carry the overall scouting grade Hawk did last year. He's a very good ILB prospect, but doesn't have the coverage skill or blitz capability that Hawk entered the league with. Both should grow into great NFL players at their respective positions.
Willis' workout numbers were better than expected and, when coupled with his solid game tape and top character, have pushed him toward the top ten.
Hawk graded out very highly as an all-around OLB last year. Rangy, instinctive, quick and above average in every phase of the game, including pass rush capability. Willis really stands out this year because of the relative lack of stud ILB prospects available, but doesn't carry the overall scouting grade Hawk did last year. He's a very good ILB prospect, but doesn't have the coverage skill or blitz capability that Hawk entered the league with. Both should grow into great NFL players at their respective positions.
Willis' workout numbers were better than expected and, when coupled with his solid game tape and top character, have pushed him toward the top ten.
Kip Dynamite
Footballguy
Jene,
Would Willis be better in a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense?
TIA
Would Willis be better in a 3-4 or a 4-3 defense?
TIA
Jiggyonthehut
Footballguy
I think the more pertinent comparison is Patrick Willis against Demeco Ryans.
In which case Willis is a better prospect. Fantastic speed, great tackling skills, but an even better human being.
Imho the 3-4 would be a better fit as it would play to his strengths (tackling, chasing down backs) and minimizes coverage situations where he is not that great. Also affords him to opportunity to pass-rush, which he has the skillset to do.
In which case Willis is a better prospect. Fantastic speed, great tackling skills, but an even better human being.
Imho the 3-4 would be a better fit as it would play to his strengths (tackling, chasing down backs) and minimizes coverage situations where he is not that great. Also affords him to opportunity to pass-rush, which he has the skillset to do.
And that says a heck of a lot about Willis because Ryans is pretty special.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Willis is a better human being than Ryans? Meh, great character is great character. I told Jene way back that he was going to love the "personal" side of Willis, but I cannot remember a college kid more involved, seriously involved, in community service than Ryans.Going back a year when I thought Willis might enter the draft, I believed he graded just a notch above Ryans based on measureables because they are very similar players. Ryans went from OLB to ILB, and I have no doubt that Willis could go from ILB to WLB or SLB in a 4-3. Willis would be great stuffing the run in a 3-4, but I'd much rather see him featured in the middle of a 4-3 like Ryans. Ryans was... er... pretty good, and one of the two supposed knocks on Willis may be cause for serious concern. The first knock-- he struggles in pass coverage is false. He hasn't been asked to play much pass coverage like AD hasn't been asked to catch many balls. Peterson flashed soft hands and Willis showed off tremendous coverage ability at the Senior Bow; Three straight days he made interceptions when no one else (LBs) was getting close. The third one was vintage Julian Peterson. Great speed, huge leap, long armed snag of a ball AJ Hawk could never touch. Willis is a supreme athlete. He has no flaws athletically and will be superb in coverage. The possible serious concern may be that he isn't cut out for calling a defense. He isn't the best study and he isn't a real communicator. He has more of a soldier's personality than a general's. Not sure how true it is. I really like Ryans, Hawk and Willis. I don't think ranking them is necessary. If you're in an IDP dynasty you're fortunate to own any of them, and only time has an answer I trust.
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Jiggyonthehut
Footballguy
Fantastic job CC. Let me adress this my earlier statements on two fronts.1.) I wasnt comparing Willis and Ryans as humans- I just worded it wrong. I meant to say that Willis is a special player and an even better person. Really takes the time to give back to his community.
2.) Again another wording issue. I didnt intend to say that Willis has coverage issues. Coverage skills are fine and if they werent, his speed would negate any issues I would have. What I meant to say is that dropping into coverage would not utiliizing him to the best of his abiliites. He is athletic enough to be able to be an all purpose MLB, but I prefer him as a run-stuffer who can get to the QB if a hole opens. Its a preference thing in the end but regardless of what system he is employed, he is one hell of a player.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Finally. I keep hearing guys knock Willis' coverage skill (and I'm not including nshelat1 in this; it seems to be the prevailing opinion in the IDP Forum right now), but every scouting report I trust suggests that he'll be at least average initially based on his athletic ability and will in no way be limited to a two down role long term.Based on my read of his scouting reports, Willis is the only ILB in this class who would excel in any 4-3 or 3-4 scheme. And I agree with CC, my read would suggest he's a better fit as a rangy, playmaking MLB than on the outside as a Will. He could do the same things as the LILB in a 3-4.
I remember this interception well - it was literally breathtaking, the kind of play that draws involuntary audible reactions. He uncoiled like a striking cobra.
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jurb26
Footballguy
Willis is the better prospect IMO. However, I think he is also more likely to need the right supporting cast and scheme to really excel in the NFL as he should. Contrary to some of the opinions in this thread, I think Willis' best fit is in a 4-3 scheme where the Dlinemen filter traffic for him and allow him to run and make plays ala Ray Lewis a few years ago. He is a sick athlete, but does not take on or shead Olinemen very well IMO. If he were to be placed in a 3-4 scheme I think he would be better suited to moving outside and be allowed to play in space. I've said it in other threads, but the most recent prospect Willis reminds me of is Vilma.
trader jake
Footballguy
I agree with every word of this.The one question I have for FBG's that "rank" Patrick Willis over A.J. Hawk: how many big-time national games did Patrick Willis play in, and excel in, while in college? Just one small issue to take into consideration.Last season A.J. Hawk showed tremendous athletic ability, the instincts were there during his rookie season, and he progressed as the season wore on. Patrick Willis hasn't proven squat with the big boys yet. I'm on board and believe he will be a fine pro. I also believe he could be an elite fantasy LB if he ends up playing the middle in the right defensive scheme. Until that happens though I'll rank Hawk over Willis.
