McGarnicle
Footballguy
Are there really adults who take stories like Adam and Eve and Noah's ark literally?
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Bill Nye To Debate Creationist At Creation Museum February 4th (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter James Daulton
- Start date
Worm
slimy ninja
NCCommish
Footballguy
I think the complexity really kicks in after the Bang. The universe gets much more complex if some being is running it on a daily basis than if they just started it rolling and let chips fall where they may. But yeah we are splitting hairs a bit. However that's half the fun.I am not nor ever will be an expert on the Big Bang, but I recognize the complexity and inherent room for improvement.Every theory given so far for the Big Bang is incredibly complex and has a very small chance of being right. I don't think an omnipotent being makes it that much more complex at that point in time. Of course added complexity is one of those reasons I mentioned for rejecting the God theory. But again you can't name a Big Bang theory that hasn't been worked over pretty good on multiple fronts or one that has even come close to being accepted as the one, especially given all the new work on the theoretical existence of a multiverse.Not being able to say it "absolutely" does not mean it is an equally likely explanation. Just another variable on top of an already mind boggling level complexity.
Put another way, which is more complex (less likely)?:
The Big Bang by itself
or
The Big Bang + supernatural omnipotent god
Why add a god to the mix? Which god or gods are you adding? You just made an the problem infinitely harder.
I guess we are splitting hairs, but adding an infinite amount of complexity (a god) to an incredibly complex equation (Big Bang) certainly affects it's likelyhood.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
There is a new documentary coming out about Noah's ark that can hopefully shed some light on the matter. My link
Rayderr
Footballguy
No one ever spoke to Noah
They all laughed at him instead
Working on his ark, working all by himself
Only Noah saw it coming
Forty days and forty nights
Took his sons and daughters with him
Yeah they were the Israelites
All you zombies hide your faces
All you people in the street
All you sittin' in high places
The rain's gonna fall on you
Osaurus
Footballguy
Rick James
Footballguy
Of course. I used to, in fact. I grew up in a Southern Baptist church, and they preached the Bible as literal truth, young earth, Jonah and the whale and the whole nine yards. In college I began to really question those things and it caused me great heartache because, although I absolutely believe in God and accept Christ as my savior, how can I be a true Christian if I don't believe Noah literally fit all those animals on the ark? Come to find out there are millions and millions of Christians like myself who view the OT as allegory, and accept traditional evolutionary views as scientific truth.
"YEC" (young earth creationists) are not as numerous as Americans think, though. There are a lot in America, which probably explains why atheists/agnostics think every christian believes in a 6,000 year old Earth, but it is not the majority.
joffer
Footballguy
So you think the polls that say 40% are wrong? Granted, results vary on how you word the question, but not that much.
Rick James
Footballguy
Just curious, which polls? And yes, I doubt 40% of Christians (including Catholics) are "YEC".
joffer
Footballguy
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/hold-creationist-view-human-origins.aspx
This polls everyone, not just Christians
This polls everyone, not just Christians
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
Thorn
Footballguy
James Daulton
Footballguy
Scoresman
Footballguy
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
20% of FFA Christians believe the earth is 6000 years old, FYI.
Scoresman
Footballguy
link? was thinking of making a poll but looks like it already exists.
unreal that anyone can believe the earth is 6000 years old.
McGarnicle
Footballguy
Rayderr
Footballguy
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
Do they know how many ant species there are? The ant population alone disproves the Noah myth.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
I like "if we came from monkeys then why are there still monkeys". This guys really has a great understanding of Evolution.
I also like the people that don't understand what a scientific theory is.
SacramentoBob
Footballguy
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=334460&page=1link? was thinking of making a poll but looks like it already exists.
unreal that anyone can believe the earth is 6000 years old.
Rick James
Footballguy
Cool. That shows that yes, there are a lot of AMERICAN Christians who believe in the young Earth theory. Just as I said above. But the poll is only focused on Americans. I don't think that is as widely believed among Christians throughout the rest of the world.
jdoggydogg
Footballguy
We do come from monkeys.
Humans, along with chimpanzees, gorillas, and orangutans, are great apes. Great apes split with Old World Monkeys after Old World Monkeys split from New World Monkeys. That means that the most recent common ancestor between Old World Monkeys and New World Monkeys -- which would be categorized as a monkey were it alive today -- was also an ancestor of humans.
We also come from fish.
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I agree with NCCommish that an omnipotent being is as good an answer as anything science has, but that's because, when it comes to "before the Big Bang," science doesn't have any answers at all.
But that doesn't mean that an omnipotent being is as good an answer as anything my twelve-year-old cousin has. My twelve-year-old cousin can conceive of a very powerful, but not quite omnipotent, being. That seems more likely because omnipotence is not strictly required for universe-creation, and there are many more ways to be not-quite-omnipotent than there are to be omnipotent.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Well to be technical we originally evolved from Sea Sponges. Just like every other multi-cellular animal did. So I mean where ever you want to draw the line. But these people are referring to modern apes. We definitely didn't evolve from them. Maybe Pan Prior but not modern chimps or bonobos.
matuski
Footballguy
Yep. I think we agree almost entirely.
Any imaginary creature could be suggested and be "as good an answer". I have no idea why anyone would want to throw this can of worms into the mix.
Worm
slimy ninja
I think a lot of them just believe there were two ants. Total. Aka two of each "kind" of animal/insect. Instead of the however many thousand species of ants there are.
That doesn't really help when there are probably a million different kinds of insects in the world, but
.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
Rayderr
Footballguy
Great, now conspiracy theorists are gonna start worrying about a New World Monkey Order.
Scoresman
Footballguy
Therein lies the problem. People actually believe the bible is god's word, that it was written by god. It's not. I was written by men. men with agendas, men with biases, men with bills to pay, etc.
CBusAlex
Footballguy
I made it through both five-minute intros, and through maybe a third of Mr. Ham's 30-minute argument. I'll try to pick it up again tonight.
I was pleasantly surprised with Nye's preparedness. In his five-minute intro, it was clear that he was already familiar with Mr. Ham's goofy distinction between historical science and observational science.
Mr. Ham is slick. Almost everything he says is completely wrong, but it's all plausible-sounding enough at first blush that, to people who lack expertise on the subject, it can be persuasive. It's difficult to refute all of Mr. Ham's nonsense upon hearing it for the first time, but what little I've seen from Nye so far suggests that he had done enough research that he wasn't hearing it for the first time. I'll find out more when I watch the rest...
On The Rocks
Footballguy
Not burying my head or looking for any additional evidence at all. I hold to the Biblical position of a six day creation. I have no idea why you would think that entertaining the idea that earth may have been created as an "aged" creation is a compromise of beliefs - but whatever.As a young earth creationist, why even pretend that you need "evidence" for your beliefs? If you're gonna go with it, man, just go with it.I'm a "young earther" - but I recall someone here on this board at some point opening my mind to the possibility that the earh was created as an "old or mature" earth - similar to Adam being created as a mature adult.
I'm going to watch the debate today, if it's still available for watching onlne.
Nobody likes a guy who buries his head in the sand then keeps peeking out
Doug B
Footballguy
While what you say is accurate ... to an unscientific mind, the "come from monkeys" thing holds up in a oblique way. Consider that if a hypothetical Pan prior specimen were ever time-travelled to the present day, pretty much anybody would point to it and call it "a monkey"
Worm
slimy ninja
Holding to a literal view of the human/animal creation story, how are there animal fossils in a layer of "aged" earth that dates to millions of years ago?Not burying my head or looking for any additional evidence at all. I hold to the Biblical position of a six day creation. I have no idea why you would think that entertaining the idea that earth may have been created as an "aged" creation is a compromise of beliefs - but whatever.As a young earth creationist, why even pretend that you need "evidence" for your beliefs? If you're gonna go with it, man, just go with it.I'm a "young earther" - but I recall someone here on this board at some point opening my mind to the possibility that the earh was created as an "old or mature" earth - similar to Adam being created as a mature adult.
I'm going to watch the debate today, if it's still available for watching onlne.
Scoresman
Footballguy
How does this work? Did god create the earth with dinosaur bones deep in the earth to fool us? So we would think it's aged? Like as a prank? What day did he do that on? His schedule that week seems kind of busy although he may have been able to squeeze it in by COB on that Thursday.Not burying my head or looking for any additional evidence at all. I hold to the Biblical position of a six day creation. I have no idea why you would think that entertaining the idea that earth may have been created as an "aged" creation is a compromise of beliefs - but whatever.As a young earth creationist, why even pretend that you need "evidence" for your beliefs? If you're gonna go with it, man, just go with it.I'm a "young earther" - but I recall someone here on this board at some point opening my mind to the possibility that the earh was created as an "old or mature" earth - similar to Adam being created as a mature adult.
I'm going to watch the debate today, if it's still available for watching onlne.
NCCommish
Footballguy
That's Gods way of testing you. Are you going to believe him or your lying eyes?Holding to a literal view of the human/animal creation story, how are there animal fossils in a layer of "aged" earth that dates to millions of years ago?Not burying my head or looking for any additional evidence at all. I hold to the Biblical position of a six day creation. I have no idea why you would think that entertaining the idea that earth may have been created as an "aged" creation is a compromise of beliefs - but whatever.As a young earth creationist, why even pretend that you need "evidence" for your beliefs? If you're gonna go with it, man, just go with it.I'm a "young earther" - but I recall someone here on this board at some point opening my mind to the possibility that the earh was created as an "old or mature" earth - similar to Adam being created as a mature adult.
I'm going to watch the debate today, if it's still available for watching onlne.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
This is youI hold to the Biblical position of a six day creation.As a young earth creationist, why even pretend that you need "evidence" for your beliefs? If you're gonna go with it, man, just go with it.I'm a "young earther" - but I recall someone here on this board at some point opening my mind to the possibility that the earh was created as an "old or mature" earth - similar to Adam being created as a mature adult.
I'm going to watch the debate today, if it's still available for watching onlne.
CBusAlex
Footballguy
Not to answer for On the Rocks, but some might say that God put those faux fossils there to create the false appearance of an old earth, the same way that he created light from distant stars already on its way, or the same way that he created Adam and Eve with belly-buttons.
Officer Pete Malloy
Footballguy
Doug B
Footballguy
I wouldn't say that ... the methodology presented at the bottom says it's based on polling 1,024 people.
And I understand polling statistics and such ... but I gotta think that the kinds of people that have time to answer surveys really biases the results. Statistics be dammed -- if they could somehow ask all Americans, they wouldn't sniff 40+%.
Can't prove it, of course. I take it on faith
Scoresman
Footballguy
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