Brady, Manning and then everybody else (1 Viewer)

[Tough As Nails]

The supporting cast on offense. It doesn't matter. The coaching staff for both teams have so much flexibility to fill in other areas because these guys can make anybody look good. Don't sign Dillon, get Adalius Thomas instead. Don't sign Edge, shore up the D-Line instead. What a luxury.

Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly.

Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter.

These two guys are on a different level. I've come full circle on both. I used to hate the Colts and loved watching Manning get all the criticism he got. But he's just amazing to watch. His poise is incredible. And Brady...I hate the Patriots. I hope they lose every game. But man, I want to watch them every time the Brady Robot goes on the field.

November 4th can't get here soon enough.

 

[bostonfred]

Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter.

I agree with your post, but this is the thing with Manning - even with his top RB out and top WR out, and let's not forget his top TE, he's still throwing to a first round WR in Wayne, a first round TE in Clark, and another first round WR in Gonzalez. And bear in mind that Wayne and Clark have years of experience in this exact offense, without changing schemes each year. I think you have to give some credit to an offensive line that made Kenton Keith look like a superstar, too. We've seen what Brady can do with scrub receivers, and we're seeing that his numbers are already on pace to beat Manning's career year immediately the first time he got good receivers. We've seen what Manning can do with great receivers, too, but we've never seen what Manning can do without all of his advantages. I agree that he's looked very poised, he's made some very good throws, and he's still 1a or 1b in the league. But even without Glenn, Harrison and Addai, he's still got so much offensive talent around him.

 

[Tough As Nails]

Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter.

I agree with your post, but this is the thing with Manning - even with his top RB out and top WR out, and let's not forget his top TE, he's still throwing to a first round WR in Wayne, a first round TE in Clark, and another first round WR in Gonzalez. And bear in mind that Wayne and Clark have years of experience in this exact offense, without changing schemes each year. I think you have to give some credit to an offensive line that made Kenton Keith look like a superstar, too. We've seen what Brady can do with scrub receivers, and we're seeing that his numbers are already on pace to beat Manning's career year immediately the first time he got good receivers. We've seen what Manning can do with great receivers, too, but we've never seen what Manning can do without all of his advantages. I agree that he's looked very poised, he's made some very good throws, and he's still 1a or 1b in the league. But even without Glenn, Harrison and Addai, he's still got so much offensive talent around him.

If you were starting a team and were forced to take a TE...how many would you pick before Dallas Clark? Gates, Gonzalez, Witten, Shockey, Winslow, Watson, Cooley...I'd put Clark in the 9-12 range. Above average. But not a star by any means. Gonzalez is a rookie. You'd take 50 WRs before you'd think of him. Keith is a nobody. Wayne is really good. No doubt. But there wasn't 5 teams in the league that trotted out rosters of skill guys you wouldn't trade for the Colts on Sunday. They were very similar to the Buccaneers. A nobody RB. A talented TE that fills a role. One solid WR with a bunch of youngsters. Manning did it with nobody yesterday. Against a defense that had been playing good ball.Let's avoid Manning vs. Brady here. They are 1a and 1b. And the gap down to the next level is huge.

 

[switz]

Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good.

OK, you had me with your first sentence, but then your keyboard vomited out the above paragraph. Are you kidding me?Watson = first round pickMoss = first round pickStallworth = first round pickMaroney = first round pick (even if he is hurt right now)Brady is surrounded by GREAT players this season. Sammy Morris is playing higher than his draft status, but when he was in Buffalo and Miami he showed this talent as well........Nonetheless... I agree, both Brady and Manning allow their teams a great deal of luxury because of their abilities to run the offenses so well.

 

[switz]

Wayne is really good. No doubt. But there wasn't 5 teams in the league that trotted out rosters of skill guys you wouldn't trade for the Colts on Sunday. They were very similar to the Buccaneers. A nobody RB. A talented TE that fills a role. One solid WR with a bunch of youngsters.

Wayne was drafted later than Moss, Stallworth, Watson, and Maroney I believe...

 

[GregR_2]

It's a great time to be a football fan. The kind of time you need to just sit back and watch and appreciate that you're watching two of the best ever to play the game. I almost feel sorry for people who get so caught up in tearing down or disliking a player they can't just appreciate the great football being played.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter.

I agree with your post, but this is the thing with Manning - even with his top RB out and top WR out, and let's not forget his top TE, he's still throwing to a first round WR in Wayne, a first round TE in Clark, and another first round WR in Gonzalez. And bear in mind that Wayne and Clark have years of experience in this exact offense, without changing schemes each year. I think you have to give some credit to an offensive line that made Kenton Keith look like a superstar, too. We've seen what Brady can do with scrub receivers, and we're seeing that his numbers are already on pace to beat Manning's career year immediately the first time he got good receivers. We've seen what Manning can do with great receivers, too, but we've never seen what Manning can do without all of his advantages. I agree that he's looked very poised, he's made some very good throws, and he's still 1a or 1b in the league. But even without Glenn, Harrison and Addai, he's still got so much offensive talent around him.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The supporting cast on offense. It doesn't matter. The coaching staff for both teams have so much flexibility to fill in other areas because these guys can make anybody look good. Don't sign Dillon, get Adalius Thomas instead. Don't sign Edge, shore up the D-Line instead. What a luxury. Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly. Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter. These two guys are on a different level. I've come full circle on both. I used to hate the Colts and loved watching Manning get all the criticism he got. But he's just amazing to watch. His poise is incredible. And Brady...I hate the Patriots. I hope they lose every game. But man, I want to watch them every time the Brady Robot goes on the field. November 4th can't get here soon enough.

It is nice to see people post based on unbiased observation and especially and observation that is different then their first opinion. Too many times people post with an objective.I have to admit that I thought Brady was a little like Pennington when he first started playing; all he would do was throw short within a great system. The difference is that he can throw deep and put some mustard when he needs to. I have Manning on my team and am a huge fan. He made a great play on the run yesterday to his left, but squared his shoulders and led Reggie Wayne perfectly to the sideline; he is awesome. However, playing in a dome makes it easier to play the game as a QB so I give the edge to Brady, but agree that they are on their own tier

 

[Tough As Nails]

Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good.

OK, you had me with your first sentence, but then your keyboard vomited out the above paragraph. Are you kidding me?Watson = first round pickMoss = first round pickStallworth = first round pickMaroney = first round pick (even if he is hurt right now)Brady is surrounded by GREAT players this season. Sammy Morris is playing higher than his draft status, but when he was in Buffalo and Miami he showed this talent as well........Nonetheless... I agree, both Brady and Manning allow their teams a great deal of luxury because of their abilities to run the offenses so well.

You forgot to add in the rest of the paragraph where I said, "Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly."I already answered the question you created.

 

[Road Warriors]

Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good.

OK, you had me with your first sentence, but then your keyboard vomited out the above paragraph. Are you kidding me?Watson = first round pick

Moss = first round pick

Stallworth = first round pick

Maroney = first round pick (even if he is hurt right now)

Brady is surrounded by GREAT players this season. Sammy Morris is playing higher than his draft status, but when he was in Buffalo and Miami he showed this talent as well.

.......

Nonetheless... I agree, both Brady and Manning allow their teams a great deal of luxury because of their abilities to run the offenses so well.

Edit for reading comprehension issues! I think the point ( before the post you responded to *oops*) is that this year Brady has weapons that compare, for the first time. And the Colts weapons are so deep that even with the loss of a HOF WR and their top RB, they're still a formidible group.

At the end of the day, these are the top QBs in the game, understand their team's offense to such a degree that they make the players around them better ( MUCH better ) And they're both a whole lot of fun to watch ( provided they're not playing my team... )

 

[Tough As Nails]

The supporting cast on offense. It doesn't matter. The coaching staff for both teams have so much flexibility to fill in other areas because these guys can make anybody look good. Don't sign Dillon, get Adalius Thomas instead. Don't sign Edge, shore up the D-Line instead. What a luxury. Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly. Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter. These two guys are on a different level. I've come full circle on both. I used to hate the Colts and loved watching Manning get all the criticism he got. But he's just amazing to watch. His poise is incredible. And Brady...I hate the Patriots. I hope they lose every game. But man, I want to watch them every time the Brady Robot goes on the field. November 4th can't get here soon enough.

It is nice to see people post based on unbiased observation and especially and observation that is different then their first opinion. Too many times people post with an objective.I have to admit that I thought Brady was a little like Pennington when he first started playing; all he would do was throw short within a great system. The difference is that he can throw deep and put some mustard when he needs to. I have Manning on my team and am a huge fan. He made a great play on the run yesterday to his left, but squared his shoulders and led Reggie Wayne perfectly to the sideline; he is awesome. However, playing in a dome makes it easier to play the game as a QB so I give the edge to Brady, but agree that they are on their own tier

I used to think Tom Brady was average. He had the "system" and the "coaching" edge and was just a game manager. I was oh so wrong. He is Joe Montana. Seriously.

 

[Liquid Tension]

It's a great time to be a football fan. The kind of time you need to just sit back and watch and appreciate that you're watching two of the best ever to play the game. I almost feel sorry for people who get so caught up in tearing down or disliking a player they can't just appreciate the great football being played.

I have really been enjoying it as well. BTW, I just want to comment that while people were throwing out the supporting cast, they are forgetting the OL. Both OL's give a lot of protection to their QB's and actually Brady has been getting better protection than Manning this year. NO quarterback will play real well when he is getting off the ground every play and the OL does a very good job for both teams.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

The supporting cast on offense. It doesn't matter. The coaching staff for both teams have so much flexibility to fill in other areas because these guys can make anybody look good. Don't sign Dillon, get Adalius Thomas instead. Don't sign Edge, shore up the D-Line instead. What a luxury. Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly. Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter. These two guys are on a different level. I've come full circle on both. I used to hate the Colts and loved watching Manning get all the criticism he got. But he's just amazing to watch. His poise is incredible. And Brady...I hate the Patriots. I hope they lose every game. But man, I want to watch them every time the Brady Robot goes on the field. November 4th can't get here soon enough.

It is nice to see people post based on unbiased observation and especially and observation that is different then their first opinion. Too many times people post with an objective.I have to admit that I thought Brady was a little like Pennington when he first started playing; all he would do was throw short within a great system. The difference is that he can throw deep and put some mustard when he needs to. I have Manning on my team and am a huge fan. He made a great play on the run yesterday to his left, but squared his shoulders and led Reggie Wayne perfectly to the sideline; he is awesome. However, playing in a dome makes it easier to play the game as a QB so I give the edge to Brady, but agree that they are on their own tier

I used to think Tom Brady was average. He had the "system" and the "coaching" edge and was just a game manager. I was oh so wrong. He is Joe Montana. Seriously.

Sure, but Joe Montana had the "system" and the "coaching" edge and was just a game manager. Talk about being surrounded by talent superior to that of anyone else.

 

[Tough As Nails]

It's a great time to be a football fan. The kind of time you need to just sit back and watch and appreciate that you're watching two of the best ever to play the game. I almost feel sorry for people who get so caught up in tearing down or disliking a player they can't just appreciate the great football being played.

I have really been enjoying it as well. BTW, I just want to comment that while people were throwing out the supporting cast, they are forgetting the OL. Both OL's give a lot of protection to their QB's and actually Brady has been getting better protection than Manning this year. NO quarterback will play real well when he is getting off the ground every play and the OL does a very good job for both teams.

Agreed...to a point. A great quarterback can make an average O-Line look really good. Manning is a master at getting rid of the ball and Brady moves in the pocket as well as anybody. Look at the difference Schaub made in Houston. He makes quick reads and is decisive. That reduced the number of sacks tremendously.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The supporting cast on offense. It doesn't matter. The coaching staff for both teams have so much flexibility to fill in other areas because these guys can make anybody look good. Don't sign Dillon, get Adalius Thomas instead. Don't sign Edge, shore up the D-Line instead. What a luxury. Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly. Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter. These two guys are on a different level. I've come full circle on both. I used to hate the Colts and loved watching Manning get all the criticism he got. But he's just amazing to watch. His poise is incredible. And Brady...I hate the Patriots. I hope they lose every game. But man, I want to watch them every time the Brady Robot goes on the field. November 4th can't get here soon enough.

It is nice to see people post based on unbiased observation and especially and observation that is different then their first opinion. Too many times people post with an objective.I have to admit that I thought Brady was a little like Pennington when he first started playing; all he would do was throw short within a great system. The difference is that he can throw deep and put some mustard when he needs to. I have Manning on my team and am a huge fan. He made a great play on the run yesterday to his left, but squared his shoulders and led Reggie Wayne perfectly to the sideline; he is awesome. However, playing in a dome makes it easier to play the game as a QB so I give the edge to Brady, but agree that they are on their own tier

I used to think Tom Brady was average. He had the "system" and the "coaching" edge and was just a game manager. I was oh so wrong. He is Joe Montana. Seriously.

With less scrambling ability...

 

[Tough As Nails]

The supporting cast on offense. It doesn't matter. The coaching staff for both teams have so much flexibility to fill in other areas because these guys can make anybody look good. Don't sign Dillon, get Adalius Thomas instead. Don't sign Edge, shore up the D-Line instead. What a luxury. Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly. Then there's Manning. Top RB out? Top WR out? Who cares. He throws up 33 points with Kenton Keith, Anthony Gonzalez, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, Bryan Fletcher...80% completion, totally controlled the clock and the game from beginning to end. That supporting cast on the field yesterday is bottom 2 or 3 in the league. But it didn't matter. These two guys are on a different level. I've come full circle on both. I used to hate the Colts and loved watching Manning get all the criticism he got. But he's just amazing to watch. His poise is incredible. And Brady...I hate the Patriots. I hope they lose every game. But man, I want to watch them every time the Brady Robot goes on the field. November 4th can't get here soon enough.

It is nice to see people post based on unbiased observation and especially and observation that is different then their first opinion. Too many times people post with an objective.I have to admit that I thought Brady was a little like Pennington when he first started playing; all he would do was throw short within a great system. The difference is that he can throw deep and put some mustard when he needs to. I have Manning on my team and am a huge fan. He made a great play on the run yesterday to his left, but squared his shoulders and led Reggie Wayne perfectly to the sideline; he is awesome. However, playing in a dome makes it easier to play the game as a QB so I give the edge to Brady, but agree that they are on their own tier

I used to think Tom Brady was average. He had the "system" and the "coaching" edge and was just a game manager. I was oh so wrong. He is Joe Montana. Seriously.

Sure, but Joe Montana had the "system" and the "coaching" edge and was just a game manager. Talk about being surrounded by talent superior to that of anyone else.

1981.

 

[switz]

Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good.

OK, you had me with your first sentence, but then your keyboard vomited out the above paragraph. Are you kidding me?Watson = first round pick

Moss = first round pick

Stallworth = first round pick

Maroney = first round pick (even if he is hurt right now)

Brady is surrounded by GREAT players this season. Sammy Morris is playing higher than his draft status, but when he was in Buffalo and Miami he showed this talent as well.

.......

Nonetheless... I agree, both Brady and Manning allow their teams a great deal of luxury because of their abilities to run the offenses so well.

You forgot to add in the rest of the paragraph where I said, "Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly."I already answered the question you created.

Yes... you wanted to throw out the "Brady does so well with no talent around him" and try to get no reponse with your "My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady." but you still are trying to say he has no talent ignoring Stallworth, Maroney, and Morris. Call it what it is - at least 25 other QBs in the NFL would trade their supporting cast for Brady's (or Manning's)You tried comparing this offense with Buffalo and Baltimore, that's ridiculous...

 

[Liquid Tension]

It's a great time to be a football fan. The kind of time you need to just sit back and watch and appreciate that you're watching two of the best ever to play the game. I almost feel sorry for people who get so caught up in tearing down or disliking a player they can't just appreciate the great football being played.

I have really been enjoying it as well. BTW, I just want to comment that while people were throwing out the supporting cast, they are forgetting the OL. Both OL's give a lot of protection to their QB's and actually Brady has been getting better protection than Manning this year. NO quarterback will play real well when he is getting off the ground every play and the OL does a very good job for both teams.

Agreed...to a point. A great quarterback can make an average O-Line look really good. Manning is a master at getting rid of the ball and Brady moves in the pocket as well as anybody. Look at the difference Schaub made in Houston. He makes quick reads and is decisive. That reduced the number of sacks tremendously.

Agreed about quick decisions, a quick release and the ability to make minor moves in the pocket to free up that extra split second (Marino was the best I ever saw at all 3 of these) and get the pass off and avoid a sack or hit. That being said, these guys stand back there sometimes with Stabler type protection that other QB's just don't have.

 

[Tough As Nails]

Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good.

OK, you had me with your first sentence, but then your keyboard vomited out the above paragraph. Are you kidding me?Watson = first round pick

Moss = first round pick

Stallworth = first round pick

Maroney = first round pick (even if he is hurt right now)

Brady is surrounded by GREAT players this season. Sammy Morris is playing higher than his draft status, but when he was in Buffalo and Miami he showed this talent as well.

.......

Nonetheless... I agree, both Brady and Manning allow their teams a great deal of luxury because of their abilities to run the offenses so well.

You forgot to add in the rest of the paragraph where I said, "Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly."I already answered the question you created.

Yes... you wanted to throw out the "Brady does so well with no talent around him" and try to get no reponse with your "My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady." but you still are trying to say he has no talent ignoring Stallworth, Maroney, and Morris. Call it what it is - at least 25 other QBs in the NFL would trade their supporting cast for Brady's (or Manning's)You tried comparing this offense with Buffalo and Baltimore, that's ridiculous...

It is ridiculous to compare. Want to know why??? Tom Brady. That's why. McGahee >> Sammy Morris

Heap = Watson

Mason > Stallworth

The difference is Moss. And that's only this year. Brady has 3 Super Bowls without him.

 

[switz]

Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good.

OK, you had me with your first sentence, but then your keyboard vomited out the above paragraph. Are you kidding me?Watson = first round pick

Moss = first round pick

Stallworth = first round pick

Maroney = first round pick (even if he is hurt right now)

Brady is surrounded by GREAT players this season. Sammy Morris is playing higher than his draft status, but when he was in Buffalo and Miami he showed this talent as well.

.......

Nonetheless... I agree, both Brady and Manning allow their teams a great deal of luxury because of their abilities to run the offenses so well.

You forgot to add in the rest of the paragraph where I said, "Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly."I already answered the question you created.

Yes... you wanted to throw out the "Brady does so well with no talent around him" and try to get no reponse with your "My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady." but you still are trying to say he has no talent ignoring Stallworth, Maroney, and Morris. Call it what it is - at least 25 other QBs in the NFL would trade their supporting cast for Brady's (or Manning's)You tried comparing this offense with Buffalo and Baltimore, that's ridiculous...

It is ridiculous to compare. Want to know why??? Tom Brady. That's why. McGahee >> Sammy Morris

Heap = Watson

Mason > Stallworth

The difference is Moss. And that's only this year. Brady has 3 Super Bowls without him.

Keep trying, because that's not working....Stallworth >>> Mason. By far!!! His only problem has been injuries, not talent.

McGahee is as overrated as they come....

 

[Max Power]

And after week 6 Brady will be 5-1 thanks to Romo and the Cowboys.

And Im not even a cowboys fan...

 

[Tough As Nails]

Sammy Morris, Ben Watson, Wes Welker, Donte Stallworth, Randy Moss...and THIS is the year that people are saying Brady finally has some weapons around him. Are you kidding me? Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good.

OK, you had me with your first sentence, but then your keyboard vomited out the above paragraph. Are you kidding me?Watson = first round pick

Moss = first round pick

Stallworth = first round pick

Maroney = first round pick (even if he is hurt right now)

Brady is surrounded by GREAT players this season. Sammy Morris is playing higher than his draft status, but when he was in Buffalo and Miami he showed this talent as well.

.......

Nonetheless... I agree, both Brady and Manning allow their teams a great deal of luxury because of their abilities to run the offenses so well.

You forgot to add in the rest of the paragraph where I said, "Those guys are on par with the likes of Buffalo and Baltimore. Bottom third of the league. Yet, the offense is unbelievably good. My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady. But look at the people on that O the last 5 years. Uuuuugly."I already answered the question you created.

Yes... you wanted to throw out the "Brady does so well with no talent around him" and try to get no reponse with your "My point here isn't even to talk about this year's group since Moss and Watson are finally some star players around Brady." but you still are trying to say he has no talent ignoring Stallworth, Maroney, and Morris. Call it what it is - at least 25 other QBs in the NFL would trade their supporting cast for Brady's (or Manning's)You tried comparing this offense with Buffalo and Baltimore, that's ridiculous...

It is ridiculous to compare. Want to know why??? Tom Brady. That's why. McGahee >> Sammy Morris

Heap = Watson

Mason > Stallworth

The difference is Moss. And that's only this year. Brady has 3 Super Bowls without him.

Keep trying, because that's not working....Stallworth >>> Mason. By far!!! His only problem has been injuries, not talent.

McGahee is as overrated as they come....

Stallworth has played 13, 11, 16, 16, and 12 games in a season in his career. Guess how many 1000 yard seasons he has? 0. He averages 3.3 catches per game. That's 54 catches per healthy season. Not good. Mason has 5 seasons where he's had more catches than Stallworth's best season. He also has 5 1000 yard seasons. If you were to stack up the seasons of the two...Mason would have the top 5. Then Stallworth's best would be #6. Then Mason would have the next 2. And McGahee may be overrated...but Sammy Morris is freaking Sammy Morris.

 

[bostonfred]

If you were starting a team and were forced to take a TE...how many would you pick before Dallas Clark? Gates, Gonzalez, Witten, Shockey, Winslow, Watson, Cooley...I'd put Clark in the 9-12 range. Above average. But not a star by any means.

I'd take Gates, Gonzalez and Winslow ahead of any of the rest. Clark would be in the next tier with the rest, and you could make a case for any of them. Clark's a very talented tight end who is underrated because he's the #4 option in his offense. Watson's a little faster and probably smarter, but Clark has better hands. Shockey's a better blocker, but that's not the point of this conversation. And if we're going to take that into considersation, then we should at least mention his attitude. Witten was barely even mentioned in this conversation until Romo and Owens came on the scene; his numbers this year are a testament of the fact he's the #2 receiver on that offense with Glenn out. Cooley's emerged pretty well as a receiver, too, but again, that's because he's one of the first receiving options on that team. Outside of fantasy football Clark is probably in the 4-9 range, not 9-12; inside fantasy football we're finally seeing how huge his numbers can be if he's one of the top two options in his offense. And yes, a lot of that has to do with Manning. But the same is true of most of the guys you mentioned.

 

[timschochet]

Back to your original point, I would say that the two QBs that have the POTENTIAL to become as good as Manning and Brady are Big Ben and Romo. Neither is on that level right now, but they could be in the future... Big Ben in particular, if you take out last year (and we all know what happened to him) this guy's winning percentage is amazing. And he certainly is a key factor in that...

I know many people will disagree with this next sentence, but I would also argue that, in his prime at St. Lous, for a short period of 2-3 years, Kurt Warner was as good or better than either Manning or Brady at their best. In fact, given both statistics and just watching him on the field, Warner in that admittedly short time period was as good as any QB who has ever played the game (no homer bias here- I hate the Rams.)

 

[pollardsvision]

it may be a long time before people will accept it, but it's very possible that we are witnessing the 1st and 2nd greatest QBs in NFL history right now (pick your order).

people will have their own feelings about it and they are both still young, but brady and manning are both making it impossible to leave them out of the montana/elway/marino discussions. (i don't put people that did "jump passes" in greatest QB discussions)

 

[Tough As Nails]

Back to your original point, I would say that the two QBs that have the POTENTIAL to become as good as Manning and Brady are Big Ben and Romo. Neither is on that level right now, but they could be in the future... Big Ben in particular, if you take out last year (and we all know what happened to him) this guy's winning percentage is amazing. And he certainly is a key factor in that...I know many people will disagree with this next sentence, but I would also argue that, in his prime at St. Lous, for a short period of 2-3 years, Kurt Warner was as good or better than either Manning or Brady at their best. In fact, given both statistics and just watching him on the field, Warner in that admittedly short time period was as good as any QB who has ever played the game (no homer bias here- I hate the Rams.)

I like Ben Roethlisberger a lot. He's perfect for that team. Great point with Warner. People forget how good he was. He probably had the greatest single season of any quarterback in history. That's a pretty big accomplishment.

 

[bostonfred]

Back to your original point, I would say that the two QBs that have the POTENTIAL to become as good as Manning and Brady are Big Ben and Romo. Neither is on that level right now, but they could be in the future... Big Ben in particular, if you take out last year (and we all know what happened to him) this guy's winning percentage is amazing. And he certainly is a key factor in that...I know many people will disagree with this next sentence, but I would also argue that, in his prime at St. Lous, for a short period of 2-3 years, Kurt Warner was as good or better than either Manning or Brady at their best. In fact, given both statistics and just watching him on the field, Warner in that admittedly short time period was as good as any QB who has ever played the game (no homer bias here- I hate the Rams.)

I was really impressed with Roethlisberger early on, and I've been pretty impressed with him since. Losing only one game as a rookie is pretty incredible. Romo is the guy who throws to Owens. He's a decent QB, but I'd need to see more than 16 games from him, and ideally to someone other than Owens, before I put him in the top QBs in the league today, let alone all time. Warner was the definition of a system QB. He was lightning quick on his reads from his time in the Arena league and he was in a brand new, innovative system, but he struggled in New York and has been hit or miss in Arizona. If you want to say that the Rams were one of the best passing offenses ever for those few years, I'd agree with that, but more credit should go to Martz, Faulk, Pace, Holt and Bruce than the others. Similarly, I wouldn't put Kitna in the top 10 QBs in the NFL, despite his numbers right now.

 

[switz]

Back to your original point, I would say that the two QBs that have the POTENTIAL to become as good as Manning and Brady are Big Ben and Romo. Neither is on that level right now, but they could be in the future... Big Ben in particular, if you take out last year (and we all know what happened to him) this guy's winning percentage is amazing. And he certainly is a key factor in that...I know many people will disagree with this next sentence, but I would also argue that, in his prime at St. Lous, for a short period of 2-3 years, Kurt Warner was as good or better than either Manning or Brady at their best. In fact, given both statistics and just watching him on the field, Warner in that admittedly short time period was as good as any QB who has ever played the game (no homer bias here- I hate the Rams.)

Agree 100% on Warner... if he hadn't had that hand (was it his pinkie) injury who knows what he would have accomplished.As for Ben, so far I haven't been that impressed - he seems more like Trent Dilfer than Tom Brady, but I say that without having watched a lot of Steeler football, only about 2-3 games a season.Romo looks pretty good... this year in general the QB play is excellent.

 

[pizzatyme]

Brady Manning

Palmer McNabb Favre

Romo Bulger Brees

V. Young Schaub Eli Rivers and many others...

 

[Phlash]

If I was starting a franchise, BOTH would be my #1 pick. Now deciding on one of them... thats the problem. They both bring so much to the table - both are winners, make players around them better, have the rings on their fingers, can take over a game, etc. etc. Definitely two of the best ever.