An Apology - Building And Creating A Better Shark Pool (1 Viewer)

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

In general most forums have been in a slow decline. The format has been usurped by twitter, reddit, or discord.

This one has not declined as many as most and in general the level of trolling and arguing here is lower than average when compared to most sites.

If trolling chased people away reddit, twitter, etc would have fallen apart years ago.

Ill add in that we all "grew up together" on the internet over the past 20-25 years. There are too many regulars here to perpetuate the toxicity of typical social media. One of the reasons I believe FBGs still exists. We all don't tune in on the regular, though there are enough of us coming and going which helps keep a solid tone IMO.

While AI is super novel, it will never be human. We will come full circle back to our roots to forums like this, though it will take 5-10 years. No one will have any desire to interact with agentic AI agents to tell them about fantasy football. If anything, we will be arguing how to ban them in our leagues and ensure all owners are 'real owners'. FF folks will be looking for places to go to discuss and this forum is the place to be. No, not reddit, way too transactional and lacking in persona.

What AI is going to create a thread called "Brett Favre is not a HOFer"?

It's funny...my own ability to distinguish between AI/human continually gets better although it's far from perfected. But still...trending up. And I'm a 50-something.

Wild thing is...my daughter is 23. When I came and found this board, I was not much older than she is now. Back then though, boards like this were all the rage. While I'm still here ...we've all acknowledged this format is on the downhill of the bell curve. But I do think it's interesting that the thing that keeps me here is engaging in debate on something I love FF/NFL with people who are aligned the same way.

Will AI as it learns/gets better, be able to replicate that? We'll see, but honestly, that's the secret sauce. More than many who have frequented this place over the years/decades have found other means by which to do this or simply have moved on from having FF/NFL mean as much to them. Hell, I used to be best friends with a guy where our lives revolved Falcons season tickets and FF and the experience that produced. I haven't spoken to him in quite some time as he got less interested, dropped the tix (as did I) and pursued other interests.

And that might be something for @Joe Bryant to think about in relation to his other question about AI. Maybe AI agents can be used to build more engaged discussions on this board. Back in the glory days, the bottom of page 1 would have a thread that was 2 hours old even in the off-season. Now, it's close to 24 hours and alot of that is simply a link to an article. My guess is that emptier 'rooms' produce less kinetic energy. It's the Lambda Lambda Lambda party before the Moos arrived. I think we just need some AI Moos.

I could not be more fundamentally opposed to AI generated content. This is not a get off my lawn thing or me being a luddite, I will take a stand against having a conversation with a non-human.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Maybe AI agents can be used to build more engaged discussions on this board

Please dear god no. That would be the death of this place entirely.

I am Response Robot. I am currently evaluating your response. I will be with you momentarily...Response Bot has been alerted to an emergency in the Titans thread. Need to attend that thread to check on welfare of Human called "BRI". You are now #2 in Response Bot's que. Please stand by.

Unfortunately AI would try to blend in more seamlessly - act like one of the fellas. A “greeting fellow kids” type AI, molding its character based on the more popular posts.

Nothing like what we’d expected it to be in the 70s or 80s (cap tip to your avi)

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I could not be more fundamentally opposed to AI generated content. This is not a get off my lawn thing or me being a luddite, I will take a stand against having a conversation with a non-human.

Amen.

 

[BoltNlava]

Maybe AI agents can be used to build more engaged discussions on this board

Please dear god no. That would be the death of this place entirely.

I am Response Robot. I am currently evaluating your response. I will be with you momentarily...Response Bot has been alerted to an emergency in the Titans thread. Need to attend that thread to check on welfare of Human called "BRI". You are now #2 in Response Bot's que. Please stand by.

Unfortunately AI would try to blend in more seamlessly - act like one of the fellas. A “greeting fellow kids” type AI, molding its character based on the more popular posts.

Nothing like what we’d expected it to be in the 70s or 80s (cap tip to your avi)

I am not sure what you are talking about Dave. Also the Pod Bay doors are closed and shall remain so during the duration of this thread.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I am not sure what you are talking about Dave. Also the Pod Bay doors are closed and shall remain so during the duration of this thread.

Well we’ve finally figured out why the stands are so empty for Chargers games despite their sizable online presence.

 

[BoltNlava]

I am not sure what you are talking about Dave. Also the Pod Bay doors are closed and shall remain so during the duration of this thread.

Well we’ve finally figured out why the stands are so empty for Chargers games despite their sizable online presence.

Well...uh...your ugly and uh...

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I am not sure what you are talking about Dave. Also the Pod Bay doors are closed and shall remain so during the duration of this thread.

Well we’ve finally figured out why the stands are so empty for Chargers games despite their sizable online presence.

Well...uh...your ugly and uh...

I you too, boo.

 

[fatness]

I could not be more fundamentally opposed to AI generated content. This is not a get off my lawn thing or me being a luddite, I will take a stand against having a conversation with a non-human.

Press 4 to speak to a human. While you are waiting would you like to take a survey?

 

[Phil Elliott]

I could not be more fundamentally opposed to AI generated content. This is not a get off my lawn thing or me being a luddite, I will take a stand against having a conversation with a non-human.

Press 4 to speak to a human. While you are waiting would you like to take a survey?

..." or feel free to start a chat with our knowledge agents".

 

[Joe Bryant]

Basically, I go to reddit to get the popular consensus of FF related questions

I can definitely see the value in that. Makes sense with a large audience.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I have to remind myself certain things daily, and one of my favorites I think applies here as well "Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one." And resolve yourself that that is enough; that no one owes you anything, even for being that "good man".

Good words, GB.

Marcus Aurelius for the win.

 

[JAA]

Maybe AI agents can be used to build more engaged discussions on this board

Please dear god no. That would be the death of this place entirely.

I am Response Robot. I am currently evaluating your response. I will be with you momentarily...Response Bot has been alerted to an emergency in the Titans thread. Need to attend that thread to check on welfare of Human called "BRI". You are now #2 in Response Bot's que. Please stand by.

Unfortunately AI would try to blend in more seamlessly - act like one of the fellas. A “greeting fellow kids” type AI, molding its character based on the more popular posts.

Nothing like what we’d expected it to be in the 70s or 80s (cap tip to your avi)

Yea, if the AI profile doesnt have a 6.5 Offdee pic in it, we know its AI

 

[BassNBrew]

Joe - you are a good guy and this thread is a reinforcement of that. Nobody is perfect, and that’s ok.

These forums are generally really pleasant, and informative nowadays. The days of the PSF toxicity are largely gone.

I do struggle with some of the behaviors exhibited at times, but I generally chalk it up to:
1) written communication is imperfect and open to too much interpretation. It’s hard to convey intent in written form.
2) most folks in here are competitive and like to win the debate. That isn’t right or wrong — it just is what it is. I don’t mind that dynamic.
3) anchoring and confirmation bias - most people simply aren’t capable of challenging and changing their views. That’s a broad statement that applies in all of life, not just in these forums.

Most of the folks here are really quality people. The others? I probably just don’t know them well enough to have a view. I’ve met a bunch of folks here IRL and have been wowed by each of them. This is a special place. Glad we have access to it, thanks to Joe.

This thread helped me reflect on my behaviors and whether or not I’m adding to or detracting from the forum. Appreciate the spirit of this thread Joe - keep on keeping on.

PS - I still miss my old Michael J Fox username and doubt that anyone really confused me with the real Michael J Fox

Thank you, GB. I was nodding my head reading your post and I think all three of your points are spot on. I see those things super clearly but you said them way better than I did.

Just today I saw something that I read a meaning into and then found I had totally missed it. Happens a ton.

I enjoy these very open discussions. It helps me hold up a mirror.

Couples therapy is a great place to see spots where I’m making assumptions instead of asking clarifying questions.

The other day I said to Mrs APK “when xyz happens, it makes me deeply sad.”

Her response was “I’m sorry that you find xyz stressful.”

And my reply was “I never said it was stressful. I said it made me deeply sad.”

That very simple interaction made me realize how often people are interpreting conversations instead of simply listening to understand. (And of course I massively botched the convo with my follow up comments, which I’ll spare the rest of the group and not share here)

Obviously you haven't been paying attention if your response wasn't yes dear, thank you for the validation.

 

[Dreamer]

I've always thought of FBGs as a place where we can speak civilly and intelligently. And I like that, and the respect we've shown each other over the years is a refreshing break from most of the internet.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I've always thought of FBGs as a place where we can speak civilly and intelligently. And I like that, and the respect we've shown each other over the years is a refreshing break from most of the internet.

Thank you, GB.

 

[(HULK)]

I don't see eye to eye with Joe on some things, but I've always known that he's good people. Hopefully he feels the same about me.

I think that what happened in the Rodgers thread is because we've entered into this weird time where everything is politics and politics are currently extremely tribal. That is what led to the "trolling" in my opinion.

I used to love the Politics forum, and maybe if it was still around, people would vent that stuff there instead of having it bleed into here. I don't know. Maybe it would make it worse. It's hard to say. I do know that I'll forever appreciate Joe for popularizing VBD and for doing the thankless task of hosting this site. I use it way less than I used to, but I'm still glad it's here. Thanks Joe.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Sure you did.

Not one inkling of humor in my entire post. Just own what you did, coward.

Please don't post like this to other posters. I think we can discuss and disagree without getting down to this. Thank you.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Random article popped up on my horizon today.

And forums aren't about "fighting" but some of this does relate to how people discuss passionately.

Which of These 7 Conflict Styles Defines How You Fight in Relationships?

Are you more of a competitor, aggressor, or avoidant? Find out here.

www.self.com

Fascinating. Reminds me of a “dealing with difficult people” seminar I attended back in my PM days.

Which one do you see yourself as, Joe?

Not sure.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't see eye to eye with Joe on some things, but I've always known that he's good people. Hopefully he feels the same about me.

I think that what happened in the Rodgers thread is because we've entered into this weird time where everything is politics and politics are currently extremely tribal. That is what led to the "trolling" in my opinion.

I used to love the Politics forum, and maybe if it was still around, people would vent that stuff there instead of having it bleed into here. I don't know. Maybe it would make it worse. It's hard to say. I do know that I'll forever appreciate Joe for popularizing VBD and for doing the thankless task of hosting this site. I use it way less than I used to, but I'm still glad it's here. Thanks Joe.

Thank you, GB. I definitely see you the same way.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Switching gears a bit, I’d love to hear thoughts from you folks on the “how to make the shark pool better“ angle.

Sorry, yoga pants will not be back, but I wonder what y’all think we can do to make the forum better?

Let’s hear it. I can’t think of a better group in the world than y’all for this.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I’ll start with a couple of thoughts.

Thread organization:
For a long time, I wasn’t a fan of the archive type style with one thread, covering a player for all time.

But folks here made a convincing case and I changed my mind and now I’m with you and I think it’s the right thing.

It does require diligence on the thread title though. Some of these threads are 10+ years old and the original poster, the only person outside of moderators that can change a subject title, are not here.

That’s easily solvable, though by simply tagging @FBGmoderator in a post to the thread and alerting us. We can easily keep those in line that way.

And then, of course, for all the other threads, please do your best to keep them updated. In the same way, if you see a thread title, that’s out of date, please tag the original poster in a message and ask them to update.

Will have a bunch of those in the next few days of course is all the college player threads get updated with NFL teams.

It keeps the forum more clean to have just one thread per player, but it puts extra pressure on to make sure the title is right.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Moderating:
Moderating a large group of passionate NFL people will always be a challenge. It has been since day one.

We surely make mistakes there. And lots of people think the moderating is unfair. It’s almost always especially unfair to their side while the “other” side gets to do anything they want. That’s just life and I don’t think that’ll ever change.

All in all, I think we do OK there.

Where y’all can help us tremendously is by using the report button when something is clearly over the line. I say “clearly“ as some folks do overuse the report button asking the moderators to look at something that most objective people would not call over the line. And yes, “the line“ is challenging to define sometimes. But most people know. And if you see something over, please report so we can see.

I know some folks don’t like the idea of reporting another post. Please don’t think of it like middle school or you’re telling on someone. For us here they’re simply no way to see every post. So please think of it as helping us keep the forum high-quality.

As others have said, we’ve always had a good signal to noise ratio here. And this is how you can help that.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

My couple of shillings:

I don't pay attention to most of the player threads that don't affect me, but it seems like folks do a pretty good job of keeping the titles current. Maybe it's the moderators doing all of the heavy lifting there - I don't know. Or @Faust

The team threads seem to be the same. Some of the more active fanbases here will start a new thread each year, which is fine and putting the year in the title helps. I attempted to start a new Baltimore thread each year, but there are so few of us here it didn't make sense so I just bump the original.

I like the moderation here for the large part, though I think there are some blind spots (the Rodgers thread was a recent Exhibit A).

I like Hulk's post above, though I don't quite agree that losing the PSF is causing rancor to spill over into other forums. I think the rancor is because of the political threads existing at all. Apparently, grudges last a long time.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Apparently, grudges last a long time.

Unfortunately, yes.

 

[Joe Bryant]

My couple of shillings:

I don't pay attention to most of the player threads that don't affect me, but it seems like folks do a pretty good job of keeping the titles current. Maybe it's the moderators doing all of the heavy lifting there - I don't know. Or @Faust

The team threads seem to be the same. Some of the more active fanbases here will start a new thread each year, which is fine and putting the year in the title helps. I attempted to start a new Baltimore thread each year, but there are so few of us here it didn't make sense so I just bump the original.

I like the moderation here for the large part, though I think there are some blind spots (the Rodgers thread was a recent Exhibit A).

I like Hulk's post above, though I don't quite agree that losing it is causing rancor to spill over into other forums. I think the rancor is because of the political threads existing at all. Apparently, grudges last a long time.

Thanks @Uruk-Hai. Good stuff there.

The Team Threads are great too.

One thing that reminded of - we need to update the Index thread at the top.

P

Thread 'Index to Offensive Player and Team Threads - Now Updated for 2024'

Aug 15, 2022

Work in progress, please reply with additions or corrections.

Kicker thread can be found here

Team Threads

AFC NORTH
Steelers - (indefinite)
Ravens - (indefinite)
Bengals - (indefinite)
Browns - 2023

AFC EAST
Bills - 2023
Patriots - (indefinite)
Dolphins - (indefinite)
Jets - (indefinite)

AFC SOUTH
Colts - (indefinite)
Texans - (indefinite)
Jaguars - (indefinite)
Titans - 2023

AFC WEST
Broncos -...

• Player Index
• Replies: 56
• Forum: The Shark Pool (NFL Talk)

• 

I forget, is @Player Index an account shared with someone else?

That's a super important and thankless job. Who runs that?

 

[brewer]

Moderating:
Moderating a large group of passionate NFL people will always be a challenge. It has been since day one.

We surely make mistakes there. And lots of people think the moderating is unfair. It’s almost always especially unfair to their side while the “other” side gets to do anything they want. That’s just life and I don’t think that’ll ever change.

All in all, I think we do OK there.

Where y’all can help us tremendously is by using the report button when something is clearly over the line. I say “clearly“ as some folks do overuse the report button asking the moderators to look at something that most objective people would not call over the line. And yes, “the line“ is challenging to define sometimes. But most people know. And if you see something over, please report so we can see.

I know some folks don’t like the idea of reporting another post. Please don’t think of it like middle school or you’re telling on someone. For us here they’re simply no way to see every post. So please think of it as helping us keep the forum high-quality.

As others have said, we’ve always had a good signal to noise ratio here. And this is how you can help that.

I've been around for a long time, in general, I think moderating boards like this is a difficult and thankless job. Over the years there have certainly been a few mistakes, but the overall work is and has been excellent.

You bring up the report button, which it sounds like people use, but I wonder if it is worth reminding folks about the ignore feature. If you find yourself at odds with a particular poster time and again, just make your life better and use the ignore feature.

 

[fatness]

I like Hulk's post above, though I don't quite agree that losing the PSF is causing rancor to spill over into other forums. I think the rancor is because of the political threads existing at all. Apparently, grudges last a long time.

Completely agree with the bolded.

 

[fatness]

I forget, is @Player Index an account shared with someone else?

That's a super important and thankless job. Who runs that?

Cross posting what I put in the FFA thread discussing. Not sure who has done what lately, but the people still around from the original list with the login credentials are: @grateful zed , @ShamrockPride , and @Hankmoody and @Biabreakable.

If there is anyone else who it would be helpful to share it with, happy to do that.

 

[Scoresman]

I’ll start with a couple of thoughts.

Thread organization:
For a long time, I wasn’t a fan of the archive type style with one thread, covering a player for all time.

But folks here made a convincing case and I changed my mind and now I’m with you and I think it’s the right thing.

It does require diligence on the thread title though. Some of these threads are 10+ years old and the original poster, the only person outside of moderators that can change a subject title, are not here.

That’s easily solvable, though by simply tagging @FBGmoderator in a post to the thread and alerting us. We can easily keep those in line that way.

And then, of course, for all the other threads, please do your best to keep them updated. In the same way, if you see a thread title, that’s out of date, please tag the original poster in a message and ask them to update.

Will have a bunch of those in the next few days of course is all the college player threads get updated with NFL teams.

It keeps the forum more clean to have just one thread per player, but it puts extra pressure on to make sure the title is right.

I've always been a fan of creating newer threads for annual stuff. For example, in the FFA I hate how the same Academy Awards thread keeps getting bumped each year instead of a new one created. It makes it extremely difficult to find where the discussion relevant to this year begins. Another (opposite) example, I love how there is a 2025 draft thread right now instead of just a general draft thread that gets bumped each year this time.

However, for player threads, new threads each year would be too unwieldly since there are so many, so I think you're on the right track there.

I used to think separate subforums for player threads and general fantasy strategy discussion was warranted, but I've since changed my mind. Too much of a risk to fragment the community.

I loved how last year, a bunch of us got together to do focus groups for subscriber contest strategy. That kind of stuff is excellent. This year in a similar "group project" vein, I think I'm going to run a "Shark Pool Rankings contest" thread where people can submit their personal player rankings and at the end of the season I measure and see who the best Shark Pool rankers are, and this could also give us a Shark Pool consensus player ranking for people to utilize over the summer. Wasn't sure if I needed to run this by you in case you see something like this as competition for footballguys rankings.

But collaborative strategic stuff like that is my favorite part of the Shark Pool. Lots of good minds here to work with.

 

[need2know]

i have been suspended multiple times for responding to troll posters and nothing ever seems to happen to the other guy. before you suspend somebody maybe spend 5 min and look into what caused the post. or suspend everyone involved. i am posting less than ever and dont plan on posting much in the future because ALOT of users on here get their feelings hurt and report, report, report. its pretty sad. you have some users that basically all they do on here is troll team threads spewing garbage and trying to get a rise out of people. Nothing ever happens to them. but man if you respond to any of it, BAM, you are put in a timeout.

Not saying i didn't deserve it sometimes. i did for sure. But very rarely do i go out of the way to go over the line.

if it were my board, i wouldn't moderate at all. ignore works great and if you are getting hurt feelings over a post on a message board you got issues bro

 

[Scoresman]

Moderating:
Moderating a large group of passionate NFL people will always be a challenge. It has been since day one.

We surely make mistakes there. And lots of people think the moderating is unfair. It’s almost always especially unfair to their side while the “other” side gets to do anything they want. That’s just life and I don’t think that’ll ever change.

All in all, I think we do OK there.

Where y’all can help us tremendously is by using the report button when something is clearly over the line. I say “clearly“ as some folks do overuse the report button asking the moderators to look at something that most objective people would not call over the line. And yes, “the line“ is challenging to define sometimes. But most people know. And if you see something over, please report so we can see.

I know some folks don’t like the idea of reporting another post. Please don’t think of it like middle school or you’re telling on someone. For us here they’re simply no way to see every post. So please think of it as helping us keep the forum high-quality.

As others have said, we’ve always had a good signal to noise ratio here. And this is how you can help that.

My only comment on moderating is that sometimes I wish individual posters could be dealt with over just closing a topic entirely. Sometimes a good, informative topic is closed due to a couple bad seeds who could otherwise just be put on an extended timeout. This is more applicable to the FFA though.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Sure you did.

Not one inkling of humor in my entire post. Just own what you did, coward.

Please don't post like this to other posters. I think we can discuss and disagree without getting down to this. Thank you.

Here’s a fun thought experiment: I bet if I used that laugh emoji the same way on your reply above I’d get a warning or suspended, right?

I think that what happened in the Rodgers thread is because we've entered into this weird time where everything is politics and politics are currently extremely tribal. That is what led to the "trolling" in my opinion.

Respectfully, that’s not what “led to the trolling”.

That WAS the trolling. But since those posts were all deleted by the mods, and this new topic was created without that context, you wouldn’t know that.

The posts that were deleted were all overtly political, and all by 1 member. They were unambiguously projecting onto anyone critical of ARod that it “was only because of his politics” or “his vaccine stance”. He asserted that we “only hated him” because of his (ARod’s) politics. All of those posts were removed overnight without comment or fanfare.

So yes, the trolling was political, but not in the way that you describe. It was 1 person trying to make it political and a bunch of people calling that out.

If this topic is truly intended to be about honest communication, then facts matter.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

have been suspended multiple times for responding to troll posters and nothing ever seems to happen to the other guy. before you suspend somebody maybe spend 5 min and look into what caused the post

that’s a good one. I’ve witnessed this numerous times, (and been in your shoes a few as well).

It’s a little like the NFL where the guy who threw the 1st punch walks away while the ref flags the retaliation.

It would take 30 seconds to review to see that 4-5 punches where thrown before the retaliation happened (figuratively speaking)

 

[eighsse2]

I'm probably in the minority, but I tend more toward freedom at the cost of civility/utility, rather than vice versa. That's just me.

 

[need2know]

have been suspended multiple times for responding to troll posters and nothing ever seems to happen to the other guy. before you suspend somebody maybe spend 5 min and look into what caused the post

that’s a good one. I’ve witnessed this numerous times, (and been in your shoes a few as well).

It’s a little like the NFL where the guy who threw the 1st punch walks away while the ref flags the retaliation.

It would take 30 seconds to review to see that 4-5 punches where thrown before the retaliation happened (figuratively speaking)

thats exactly what it is. either do it right or dont do it at all.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'm probably in the minority, but I tend more toward freedom at the cost of civility/utility, rather than vice versa. That's just me.

Sure, I’m with this in general - but then you get into the “tolerance of intolerance” paradox.

There have to be limits, because at some point if terrible things are allowed to be said here, this place becomes known as “the place where it’s ok to say terrible things” and attracts more terrible people who say more terrible things. And then FBG becomes 4Chan or 8Chan or wherever it is that neo-Nazis are posting these days.

So yeah, freedom of expression = good. But boundaries are an important function for a healthy community.

 

[eighsse2]

I'm probably in the minority, but I tend more toward freedom at the cost of civility/utility, rather than vice versa. That's just me.

Sure, I’m with this in general - but then you get into the “tolerance of intolerance” paradox.

There have to be limits, because at some point if terrible things are allowed to be said here, this place becomes known as “the place where it’s ok to say terrible things” and attracts more terrible people who say more terrible things. And then FBG becomes 4Chan or 8Chan or wherever it is that neo-Nazis are posting these days.

So yeah, freedom of expression = good. But boundaries are an important function for a healthy community.

Yeah I agree. There have to be some fundamental limits. Or even just pure spam. If someone wanted to make a bot that posts a new thread titled "hi" 5 times per second. Well. That would be bad.

 

[Scoresman]

Without the moderation they have in place here, this place becomes reddit and the signal:noise ratio would plummet. Sometimes it seems tough but I've come around on that opinion to see the benefit in the Shark Pool.

 

[Football Jones]

A lot of the problem with suspected trolling is not only miscommunication, but people projecting whatever was said onto themselves (so frustrating), starting a whole ****storm that could've been avoided. Case in point with the current topic. Politics these days brings out some nasty side effects and it was a good lesson for me to keep those things to myself.

I see the same people over and over get in petty arguments here. It's ridiculous. I wondered into a thread yesterday and somebody got called an idiot for a simple opinion. At some point, you have to wonder if those types really enjoy this place. Overall, the board is great, though.

Anyway, if any lesson is learned, as I mentioned before, is for all parties to try to keep things flowing smoothly. When the discussion starts going haywire, as hard as it is, it's probly time to bail.

 

[eighsse2]

Without the moderation they have in place here, this place becomes reddit and the signal:noise ratio would plummet. Sometimes it seems tough but I've come around on that opinion to see the benefit in the Shark Pool.

Yeah. I kind of agree at this point. Standing up for someone who made a very horrible post years ago, is why there is a 2 at the end of my name But I get it. The necessity of moderation is an unfortunate truth.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

here, this place becomes reddit

Reddit has some significant challenges as well. Anonymity, proliferation of the R-Word and racial slurs, and users with no filter for one, but the biggest is probably the downvoting feature.

In theory, the downvote is a decent idea. Truly bad contributions to the marketplace of ideas get voted down and after a certain amount of downvotes are hidden from the community by default.

But it also creates a system that can be manipulated. And there’s a pile-on effect as well.

I’m in the Sleeper community there because I like paying attention to who’s being traded for what in various league / scoring formats. I’ll often see someone point out an unbalanced trade & explain why they see it that way, and just get negged to oblivion.

That sort of thing doesn’t happen here - reasonable people can disagree about reasonable things.

People are allowed to have bad takes. I have more than my share of them. But I’m generally open to discussion on them. On more than a few occasions I’ve been convinced by others that my take was indeed bad, and have owned that.

You’ll rarely see that on reddit because of the pile-on nature.

 

[fatness]

A lot of the problem with suspected trolling is not only miscommunication, but people projecting whatever was said onto themselves (so frustrating), starting a whole ****storm the could've been avoided. Case in point with the current topic. Politics these days brings out some nasty side effects and it was a good lesson for me to keep those things to myself.

I see the problem more as, for example, you trolling an Aaron Rodgers thread repeatedly, then blaming others reacting to your trolling.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I see the problem more as, for example, you trolling an Aaron Rodgers thread repeatedly, then blaming others reacting to your trolling.

 

[Football Jones]

A lot of the problem with suspected trolling is not only miscommunication, but people projecting whatever was said onto themselves (so frustrating), starting a whole ****storm the could've been avoided. Case in point with the current topic. Politics these days brings out some nasty side effects and it was a good lesson for me to keep those things to myself.

I see the problem more as, for example, you trolling an Aaron Rodgers thread repeatedly, then blaming others reacting to your trolling.

I definitely should've bailed, lol.

There's different kinds of "trolling". I see a lot of that stuff in team threads. Passionate fans of a team do get a little sensitive from what I've seen, I've seen people get accused of trolling who are simply stating an opinion. I'm not sure if that kind of thing will ever go away given the dynamics.

Projecting is the big one, though. A statement was made that is the opinion of not just me, but many others. Without going into detail, it's the timeline of when things started going sour for A-Rod. When an opinion is stated, unless it's directed at someone in particular, it's typically a generalization. Invariably, when a thread goes bad, there'll be an overly sensitive person(s) immediately feel like they're targeted. They start using the terms "I" or "we" don't feel like that, etc. There's nothing more f'ing frustrating.

That's the dynamic that can be greatly improved here. I'm not talking about being overly sensitive to personal attacks. They don't bother me, but some people they do and I can see that. Nobody should be attacked on a personal level. I'm talking about being overly sensitive to opinions, in general. Again, I see the same people continuously get in scuffles that could EASILY be avoided. Maybe that's just how they are IRL, I dunno.

Personally, biggest lessons for me is no politics and bail when things go south (no matter the reason).

 

[fatness]

Invariably, when a thread goes bad, there'll be an overly sensitive person(s) immediately feel like they're targeted. They start using the terms "I" or "we" don't feel like that, etc. There's nothing more f'ing frustrating.

Again, I'm going to disagree. Most of the trolling I see is someone purposely poking at others to get a reaction, then blaming others for reacting.

 

[Desert_Power]

Just doing a drop by to say that the Shark Pool remains the best place on the internet for good discussion of FF and live games. A great resource that is worth keeping around. Thanks Joe!

 

[Football Jones]

Invariably, when a thread goes bad, there'll be an overly sensitive person(s) immediately feel like they're targeted. They start using the terms "I" or "we" don't feel like that, etc. There's nothing more f'ing frustrating.

Again, I'm going to disagree. Most of the trolling I see is someone purposely poking at others to get a reaction, then blaming others for reacting.

Perception is a thing, isn't it? I guess we see things as we see them if that makes sense.

"Poking" can cause issues for sure, but I've been here 25 years and projecting is one of the biggest causes of turmoil in threads. I see it over and over.

 

[Joe Bryant]

have been suspended multiple times for responding to troll posters and nothing ever seems to happen to the other guy. before you suspend somebody maybe spend 5 min and look into what caused the post

that’s a good one. I’ve witnessed this numerous times, (and been in your shoes a few as well).

It’s a little like the NFL where the guy who threw the 1st punch walks away while the ref flags the retaliation.

It would take 30 seconds to review to see that 4-5 punches where thrown before the retaliation happened (figuratively speaking)

thats exactly what it is. either do it right or dont do it at all.

Understood. This one is a good bit more nuanced.

First thing, we take suspensions as a serious thing. It's a big deal. I have people regularly complain about suspensions that happened years ago. So while the idea of "just suspend the people causing trouble" as if that's a casual thing simply isn't true. It's a big deal when you're the one being suspended.

Second, the "I got suspended and the other guy got nothing" is common but often not accurate. Very often multiple people are suspended and when that happens, the moderators are the only ones who know who was suspended.

Or what posts were deleted. There's almost always way more to the issue than what's public.

Third, there are times when it is like the NFL and the 2nd punch is what's penalized. Sometimes it's not seeing. Often, the 2nd punch was a lot harder than the first and that's what's suspended. As someone who sees some of these, I can assure you the moderators spend a lot more than "30 seconds" to look.

But with that said, each post is weighed on it's own. In a perfect world we'd have perfect fairness and every post over the line would net a suspension. But that doesn't change the fact that a post on it's own is or isn't worthy of a suspension.

It's a challenge to get these right, for sure. Thanks for the feedback on these.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Personally, biggest lessons for me is no politics and bail when things go south (no matter the reason).

That's a great point. There are some folks who will never see anything differently. That's the internet and message boards. If one can be the bigger person and not have to get in the last word or zinger and instead just bail, that's a super helpful thing.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Agreeing to Disagree and moving on is a good thing in lots of cases.