Brain Storm Help with a Youth Football Program (1 Viewer)

[Chadstroma]

I wanted to grab some more attention on this than another post in the youth football thread.... I want to get some of the those amazing minds and experience you guys have to generate some ideas on something we are dealing with in our youth football program.

This is a Catholic elementary to Jr High school with a vibrant sports program. Football, Cross Country, Golf, Basketball, Soccer, Track, Volleyball and Cheerleading. For Football, there are three teams- the midgets (I don't think that is what they are actually called but it is what I call them- lol) 3/4th grades, Jr Varsity 5/6th grade and Varsity 7/8th grade. The numbers of the football program really change greatly depending on the size of the class of boys and how many want to play. We have two nearby Catholic schools that can feed into our program, as well as CCD and another local parish of CCD can come and play. However, the vast majority of the number of kids are from our school who play... I would say usually 80-95% of the team would be the range. The other areas we can pull from really do not do much to even tell the kids about it let alone advertise it. It is almost a secret thing that we can get kids if we are lucky.

Since I have been around (about 10 years) there was one team that was bare bones... I think the varsity team started with 14 and ended with 12 by end of the season with one getting hurt and one quitting. This yea, my son, going into 4th.... we were really worried that we wouldn't have enough to field a team. Last year, including him, there were 4 third graders that played. And then the grade behind them has a total of 8 boys (a very unusually small class of boys). I recruited hard for more of his classmates to sign up and got a few more and a couple of the underclass kids as well as some kids from our other sources so we are sitting at 15 (really 14 being the min to have a team).

The Jr Varisty team was pretty full to begin with as the incoming 5th and 6th graders both have big classes from our school. Our varsity is lopsided. The 8this very small though the 7th is good sized in numbers and athletic ability (though they are missing size).

Here is the opportunity.... we originally thought that a nearby club team folded because we got a huge amount of interest from one of the schools with those kids. I recently confirmed that they did not fold but something must have happened with some sort of drama because there is an exodus of kids who are looking to play elsewhere. Our direct local club has long has a wait list so it seems all the ones that are eligible have been trying to sign up with us. I talked to the AD last night and both Varsity and Jr Varsity are now using wait lists because of this though we have not had a number of kids added to the Midgets as we are still at 15. I feel like this is a great opportunity for the future of the football program to get more numbers through the program from our other sources but if we wait list and don't have them we could lose that opportunity.

So... I want to get ideas or thoughts or feedback on what to do other than just have a waitlist and say 'sorry, full' on this.

I had two ideas that I was thinking of presenting to the AD...
1) Have a try out with the current wait list and take the best of the boys.
2) Have like a practice squad where the kids don't have to pay but can take part in practices but just can't suit up or something along those lines. How many kids would be interested in this? No idea. Prob not many. Would it cause an issue at practices? Very possible as part of many of the reasons to keep the numbers down is you can only coach so many kids.

So... help me help my kids program out... whatcha guys got?

 

[Gally]

In most school situations they very rarely ever cut kids. Is there a reason why there is a limit to the number of players you can have on a team?

 

[Mister CIA]

6-man football?

 

[The Dude]

In our local league, there were multiple levels of play - so if you have 2 varsity teams they had a bracket for first level players and another bracket for second level players. Two separate teams and two levels of competition

 

[The Dude]

I would not think about taking the best of the best unless they roll up to same high school. If multiple high schools are involved definitely separate by HS as clean as possible - but keep all teams in your program.

 

[belljr]

6-man football?

7s is a thing

 

[belljr]

Rookie Tackle League

Our local Catholic schools played tackle 7 vs 7 for this very reason

 

[Chadstroma]

In most school situations they very rarely ever cut kids. Is there a reason why there is a limit to the number of players you can have on a team?

I honestly do not know the specific answer to this. None of our sports are cut but football is the only one that is not just our school. We have not had this issue as long as I been a part of the school (just about 10 years). My guess is coach to player ratio and playing time. I know last year there were more than a couple of kids who did not get much playing time and that was with just a good sized team that we never had to consider wait listing. It also may be equipment issues... I know in the past the logistics of getting new gear in has been way more of an issue than it should be. If we have too many that could cause issues there but I have to figure it would be something we could figure out and buy more with the new fees. There also may be a max set by the league. I know the league (same league) had a max roster limit for girls flag football in the inaugural season this last year that finished. But I don't know for 100% sure.

 

[Chadstroma]

6-man football?

huh?

 

[Chadstroma]

In our local league, there were multiple levels of play - so if you have 2 varsity teams they had a bracket for first level players and another bracket for second level players. Two separate teams and two levels of competition

I know the local club does this but that is how the league operates. For our Catholic school league, there is only one team per level.

 

[Chadstroma]

I would not think about taking the best of the best unless they roll up to same high school. If multiple high schools are involved definitely separate by HS as clean as possible - but keep all teams in your program.

No. Even all our kids from our school do not go to the same HS. The big influx would be a different public school too. We really do not have any allegiance to a HS... our kids do tend to go to one Catholic HS. I say it roughly ends up being 40% that one Catholic HS, 40% the local public HS and then the rest scattered to other Catholic HS and some public HS in the area.

There will definitely only be one team per level and our concern is our program winning and being healthy down the line with numbers of kids.

 

[Chadstroma]

Rookie Tackle League

Our local Catholic schools played tackle 7 vs 7 for this very reason

We are regular 11 man football.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

It's a catholic league. There should be bylaws. We dealt with a lot of what you were talking about a few years ago. No dice on bringing outside kids in. Our league at one point even let a few other private schools participate but kicked them out after reports of those schools "recruiting" players.

Everything was no cuts and minimum of 1 quarter play time. If you couldn't field a team the org would place your kids - couldn't choose which school you wanted to go play with. Pretty strict.

Your org may not have those kinds of by laws but from an ethics standpoint point, if i was an opposing coach and found out you had 10 park kids (let's face it, park football is a bit different level), I'd be pissed.

ETA: Our situation may have been different because there's only one catholic high school that the 5 lower schools feed into.

 

[Chadstroma]

It's a catholic league. There should be bylaws. We dealt with a lot of what you were talking about a few years ago. No dice on bringing outside kids in. Our league at one point even let a few other private schools participate but kicked them out after reports of those schools "recruiting" players.

Everything was no cuts and minimum of 1 quarter play time. If you couldn't field a team the org would place your kids - couldn't choose which school you wanted to go play with. Pretty strict.

Your org may not have those kinds of by laws but from an ethics standpoint point, if i was an opposing coach and found out you had 10 park kids (let's face it, park football is a bit different level), I'd be pissed.

ETA: Our situation may have been different because there's only one catholic high school that the 5 lower schools feed into.

There are bylaws which very well could be max on roster limit and I would bet that there is some sort of rules on cuts. I am not sure if that would allow for a try out of wait list or not.

As for bringing in outside kids- you can not. The eligibility is very clear. Our school or parish CCD. Two nearby schools (I believe their CCD for their parishes as well but not 100% sure on that) and then a nearby parish CCD that has a sports program (basketball, volleyball... I think that might be it) but no school. Anything outside of that would be a violation. The kids from the club that we are getting are coming from one of the other schools as that club is in that schools township, so it is all legal, just unusual big surge of kids. Like I said, there must have been some big drama that happened that set a large number of parents to seek to leave. It was so many that my AD thought that the club had folded. So very unusual.

There is no minimum play time.

We were not sure what we would do if unable to field a team. It has never happened before since the AD has been there... though it came close one year. We managed to scrape by again.

By park, do you mean club football? I wouldn't say at all that the club football is better than our school football. My son did a camp at the local public school and pretty much all of them for his age level were from the local club team. He was not impressed at all. Easily the best player there... granted, he is also the second best player on his team but I asked about the club players and his response was "they weren't good." There are some big differences, they have different level teams and no strip players with weight in's. Also the Catholic High Schools in our area is heavy on being some of the best HS football programs in the state. They get a big chunk of their players from our Catholic league teams. We are blessed with really good coaching... last year, one of our coaches on our Jr Varsity team played at Iowa.... and he was a position coach.

As for playing by the rules. We do. Our school doesn't try to bend rules and cheat.... our rival school is known for it. There have been some stuff that has happened and tried... some kind of 'worst kept secret' type stuff that you really can't prove and some of it that has got schools in trouble and kicked out or on probation or sanctioned in some way. At some level, recruiting does happen and is allowed to happen... for example, we can 'recruit' from our feeder schools and CCD programs. One of the 'worst kept secret' things that happen is some kids that are "enrolled" in CCD but somehow never actually show up for CCD. Again, we don't do that and haven't recruited these kids form this club team. Something definitely happened to cause an unusual number trying to sign up with us but it is legit by rules (and spirit) of the league.

Our school tends to send a good chunk to one Catholic school but it just seems like the 'favored' school. There are tons of options around us. My daughters class that just graduated had I believe kids going to 7 different Catholic HS's in the area and really there are several more options that would be within the same distance as these others from our school. Who knew... southside Chicago has ton of Catholic options.

 

[The Z Machine]

What about converting the practice squad into a flag football team? Or maybe just make them do conditioning all season.

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Where i live, city parks pretty much rule the football world with regard to talent/size. Cyo is ok.

Sounds like thos club kids may be eligible. Hold a "tryout" with the intentions of keeping just about everyone that shows up. My guess is not a lot will show up.

 

[The Dude]

I think you are headed down the wrong path. Stick to kid enrolled at your school. If that’s not enough kids, I would take that group to a public league and not field a school team

 

[Chadstroma]

I think you are headed down the wrong path. Stick to kid enrolled at your school. If that’s not enough kids, I would take that group to a public league and not field a school team

Not sure what you mean by headed down the wrong path.

The program is and always has had the feeder schools as do the rest of the teams in the league. Several schools/CCD programs will feed into one program. It is how it is done. I am looking to try to capitalize on an unusual amount of interest from some of our affiliated schools to keep it going for the most health of the program possible.

The school has a vibrant athletic program. The football program has been going on for decades at this school. Shutting it down isn't what we are looking to do in any way, shape or form. Plus, the local club has a waitlist anyways and there is no local rec options outside of flag football.

 

[Instinctive]

Is it a full team (like 11 on 11)?

If so, idk how you have a waitlist unless you've already got like 30+ kids.

My high school team had I think 90 kids or so on Fresh, JV, and V teams.

 

[The Dude]

My point being that the kids from your school should be your priority. Say you did your tryout and you had a starting varsity 22 that did not included your kids? How would that go over at school? And maybe 22 is unrealistic - so pick a number that is realistic like 11 starters from outside your school and 11 from inside - what's going to happen when the starting QB is outside your school while the top QB from your school quits, sits or splits?

 

[Chadstroma]

Is it a full team (like 11 on 11)?

If so, idk how you have a waitlist unless you've already got like 30+ kids.

My high school team had I think 90 kids or so on Fresh, JV, and V teams.

Yes 11 vs 11.
We had over 30 for our Jr Varsity last season and wait list wasn't a thing. I don't know the numbers but we have got a huge surge coming in.

 

[Chadstroma]

My point being that the kids from your school should be your priority. Say you did your tryout and you had a starting varsity 22 that did not included your kids? How would that go over at school? And maybe 22 is unrealistic - so pick a number that is realistic like 11 starters from outside your school and 11 from inside - what's going to happen when the starting QB is outside your school while the top QB from your school quits, sits or splits?

Ok, you misunderstood me and/or I wasn't clear enough.

Our school kids are not waitlisted at all. The only kids waitlisted our from our feeders from new sign ups. My thinking was since we don't know these kids at all... having a try out to take the best available from that group. For example, the one kid I am trying to get on the team is a big kid whose size we desperately need. During last season there were really two issues we had: a power running back and size on the Oline. My son making weight for playoffs took care of the RB part (though I would bet his buddy will be RB this year going into varsity assuming he makes weight) but we are still undersized on the line. Out of the new sign ups, we have no idea if these kids are athletic, have size or have no athletic interest at all and their Dad is making them.

 

[Instinctive]

Is it a full team (like 11 on 11)?

If so, idk how you have a waitlist unless you've already got like 30+ kids.

My high school team had I think 90 kids or so on Fresh, JV, and V teams.

Yes 11 vs 11.
We had over 30 for our Jr Varsity last season and wait list wasn't a thing. I don't know the numbers but we have got a huge surge coming in.

Yeah I mean 30 guys for 11 on 11 isn't that many. 66 would be three deep at every spot. That's about the limit for middle school viability IMO.

 

[Chadstroma]

Is it a full team (like 11 on 11)?

If so, idk how you have a waitlist unless you've already got like 30+ kids.

My high school team had I think 90 kids or so on Fresh, JV, and V teams.

Yes 11 vs 11.
We had over 30 for our Jr Varsity last season and wait list wasn't a thing. I don't know the numbers but we have got a huge surge coming in.

Yeah I mean 30 guys for 11 on 11 isn't that many. 66 would be three deep at every spot. That's about the limit for middle school viability IMO.

I think 3 deep for every position is way over kill for Jr High and below football programs to the extreme. With the 30+ kids (might have been closer to 40) more than a couple of kids didn't see the field much. I am confident one of the main driving forces for waitlisting over whatever number (not sure what that number is) is so you don't have a ton of boys not playing ever or very little.

 

[Instinctive]

Is it a full team (like 11 on 11)?

If so, idk how you have a waitlist unless you've already got like 30+ kids.

My high school team had I think 90 kids or so on Fresh, JV, and V teams.

Yes 11 vs 11.
We had over 30 for our Jr Varsity last season and wait list wasn't a thing. I don't know the numbers but we have got a huge surge coming in.

Yeah I mean 30 guys for 11 on 11 isn't that many. 66 would be three deep at every spot. That's about the limit for middle school viability IMO.

I think 3 deep for every position is way over kill for Jr High and below football programs to the extreme. With the 30+ kids (might have been closer to 40) more than a couple of kids didn't see the field much. I am confident one of the main driving forces for waitlisting over whatever number (not sure what that number is) is so you don't have a ton of boys not playing ever or very little.

Yeah different strokes. Here in Texas, everyone can join the team. The benefits of practice for the boys, the team element, the physical development, etc all outweigh any worry about playing time. Not everyone gets to play. Thats fine. Everyone can be on the team. Not to mention kids develop differently...a kid that was nothing in 5th grade can be a monster in 8th and everyone recognizes its better if he got to play in the intervening years even if it was mostly in practice.

Just a different approach that would solve your issue.