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brandon marshall? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter SCT
- Start date
two_dollars
Footballguy
Rhonde Barber with a safety over the top.
blackjack23
Footballguy
WRs are inconsistent. Thats life
Wrigley
Footballguy
Yes
Football Jones
Footballguy
Tampa is good at taking your #1 WR away, especially against a somewhat inexperienced QB. I think there was a little premature hyping of Cutler, even tho he's an outstanding young QB. Cutler still has a ways to go, but he has all the tools as well as incredible weapons at his disposal.
There won't be many days like this for the dynamic duo of Cutler/Marshall, but it happens.
There won't be many days like this for the dynamic duo of Cutler/Marshall, but it happens.
Jambi
Footballguy
A or B?
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Plus, every great WR is gonna have at least a few down weeks a year. No WR is gonna go nuts every week of the season. Count on it.
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SSOG
Moderator
I love how the consensus here is that Marshall had a bad game because the inexperienced young Cutler was flummoxed by the big bad confusing old Tampa Bay defense. That couldn't be further from the truth- Cutler had a great game, actually. He posted a QB rating of 96.1. 13 of the team's 17 first downs came through the air. He didn't throw a single pick against the defense that led the league in INTs coming in. His game wasn't all razzle dazzle, but that wasn't the gameplan- the gameplan was to eschew the big play and march down the field with a series of checkdowns, play the field position game, and win the war of attrition.
Cutler played a great game, and wasn't the least bit bewildered by the Bucs. Marshall didn't really get his because the gameplan didn't really call for Marshall to get his.
Cutler played a great game, and wasn't the least bit bewildered by the Bucs. Marshall didn't really get his because the gameplan didn't really call for Marshall to get his.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Who said Cutler was flummoxed? I don't think there's any question the Cutler/Marshall hookup was hindered by how Tampa was playing Marshall in their cover-2 scheme. The more you see that D, the better off you'll be. Also, I can't ever envision a gameplan where Marshall is supposed to get just 7 looks (unless someone else is going off & that didn't happen). Overall, I believe Cutler played pretty well, but I wouldn't exactly call it great, LOL (passer rating isn't neccessarily a good guage in a game like this, IMO). Bottom line, while a win, Denver got held to 16 points & that's not ideal for them. They pulled it out due to a combination of much better defensive play by the Broncos (compared to previous games), & the general ineffectiveness of the Bucs' offense. Great win, but the question was why Marshall had a sub-par game. I kinda get what you're saying in a way, but I've got to disagree with you for the most part.
Resident A
Footballguy
I saw most of the game & attribute most of it to the Cover-2, but it was also raining for much of the game. There wasn't much downfield passing for either team. I have to think the rain had something to do with it.
SSOG
Moderator
Tubulcane implied that Cutler, as a young QB, had trouble passing against the Tampa2. I disagree. His short passing was consistently moving the ball down the field. His rating shows that he was very efficient with the ball. If you don't like QB rating, how about some of the Football Outsiders stats, which rank Jay Cutler as the 2nd best QB in the league this last week (and that's without fully adjusting for the quality of defense he faced yet).As for not envisioning a gameplan that calls for "just" 7 targets... people have gotten spoiled by Marshall's ridiculous first couple of weeks. 7 targets is a LOT of targets, still. Even if a guy averages 10 targets a game for a season (160 total targets, which is an ELITE level that has been met, over the last six seasons, by just an average of 5.5 receivers a year), then he's generally going to post more sub-10 target games than double digit target games. The problem isn't the paucity of targets, the problem is what type of targets they were. Those 7 targets weren't high-value targets (deep balls, red zone targets), they were instead mostly shorter stuff. It's hard to accumulate a lot of value on 7 checkdown targets. Why did Marshall only get checkdown targets? Because checkdown was the name of the gameplan.
Bankerguy
Footballguy
bonesman
Footballguy
He blocks downfield for his teammates and works about as hard after the catch for extra yards as any WR in the league... and his hands are as soft as warm butter.
SSOG
Moderator
I don't know what kind of teammate Marshall is. Everyone speaks glowingly of his talent, but Cutler also spoke scathingly of his focus in the offseason. It was a real, honest-to-goodness dressing down the likes of which we rarely see in the media frenzy that is the modern NFL. Then again, when serving his suspension, Marshall moved in with Cutler so that the QB could keep him up to speed with what's going on with the team. Lots of mixed signals, but I certainly wouldn't say he's a John Lynch or a Warrick Dunn, here.As for his hands... superb. Enough said.
Tubalcane
Footballguy
Obviously I stand by what I said in my first post. Tampa's Def did limit Cutler in his downfield strikes and that is a fact. Marshalls numbers bear that out. He did have to use his checkdown recievers like you said, and that is also a fact. When playing against the Tampa 2 Def, Young QBs often try to force passes into their favorite targets and end up getting picked off a lot. Cutler learned a lot from this game just like I said. It's a big step up for a young QB to play against the Tampa 2 D and have the poise and patience to work the field, spread it around, and take what he could get, while not losing their cool and throwing hurried and ill-fated passes. Do not mistake what I said for condemnation. Cutler done a fantastic job Sunday. As a Broncos homer I couldn't be more elated.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Denver will always want to target Marshall more than 7 times (unless someone else is going off & that didn't happen). 7 targets a game equals 112 for the season & Marshall caught over 100 last year. Anyway, if Tampa is causing Cutler to checkdown to Marshall, then the Bucs have done their job. You can bet Shanny was calling plays designed to get the ball downfield to Marshall at various times during the game, but whether the Bucs confused Cutler, or he wasn't confident enough to throw it, we don't know. Tampa held the previously high-scoring Broncos offense to 16 points. Of course Cutler was somewhat hindered by the Bucs cover-2 scheme. And like I said, Denver is NOT going to win a lot of games scoring 16 points. I understand Cutler played a pretty decent game, but I can assure you Denver's staff (& Cutler) thought they would score more than 16 points (& certainly thought they would need to score more than 16). Cutler played it extremely safe, which could've easily cost them the game. It didn't, & he managed to get the job done, which is the most important thing, but to say Cutler breezed thru Tampa's cover-2 & played a great game isn't accurate, IMO. Let's agree to disagree.
bad-golfer
Footballguy
Denver had crap bad field pos a lot in this game also..
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Rashean Mathis is gonna be all over Marshall this week.. Hopefully, Jax won't use safety help, thinking tat Mathis can handle him one-on-one.
<------Marshall owner
<------Marshall owner
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Tubalcane
Footballguy
Mathis was all over Marshall last year in week 3 too. Marshall had 7 catches for 133 yards. Great job by Mathis
cubbie5150
Footballguy
Exactly...that's what I was driving at... I'm hoping they are dumb enough to single cover Marshall w/ Mathis, but somehow, I doubt it.Mathis was all over Marshall last year in week 3 too. Marshall had 7 catches for 133 yards. Great job by Mathis
SSOG
Moderator
Yes, Marshall is going to *AVERAGE* more than 7 targets a game. No one on the planet would argue otherwise. The thing about averages, though, is that sometimes you get more... and sometimes you get less. And that's okay. That's not a deviant gameplan, that's just the nature of averages.Marvin Harrison in 2002 had the most absurd year in terms of targets that I can ever remember. I'd wager it was probably the most absurd year in NFL history. The dude was targeted 202 times. 202!!! That's almost 13 targets a game ON AVERAGE. You know what? Three times that season he had "just" 8 targets. Another time he had "just" 9. Marshall's not going to TOUCH a 13-target average this year, so we can excuse him if sometimes he "only" gets 7 targets.Denver will always want to target Marshall more than 7 times (unless someone else is going off & that didn't happen). 7 targets a game equals 112 for the season & Marshall caught over 100 last year. Anyway, if Tampa is causing Cutler to checkdown to Marshall, then the Bucs have done their job. You can bet Shanny was calling plays designed to get the ball downfield to Marshall at various times during the game, but whether the Bucs confused Cutler, or he wasn't confident enough to throw it, we don't know. Tampa held the previously high-scoring Broncos offense to 16 points. Of course Cutler was somewhat hindered by the Bucs cover-2 scheme.
And like I said, Denver is NOT going to win a lot of games scoring 16 points. I understand Cutler played a pretty decent game, but I can assure you Denver's staff (& Cutler) thought they would score more than 16 points (& certainly thought they would need to score more than 16). Cutler played it extremely safe, which could've easily cost them the game. It didn't, & he managed to get the job done, which is the most important thing, but to say Cutler breezed thru Tampa's cover-2 & played a great game isn't accurate, IMO. Let's agree to disagree.
Also, you can bet that Shanny wasn't calling plays to get the ball downfield to Marshall. Going downfield wasn't part of his gameplan. He said it himself. Here are some quotes:
Translation? Denver only scoring 16 points wasn't because they didn't go vertical, it's because they didn't play the checkdown game quite well enough, didn't convert 6 different third-and-shorts.As for Denver winning while only scoring 16... they won't have to score as many points if they don't turn the ball over. 16 might have been enough against the Chiefs if they hadn't coughed the ball up four times.
just saw on another site their prediction for marshall this week was 8 for 130 with 2 TDs. i was stunned it was that high with rashean mathis going up against him. the guy is a top 5 cover corner. marshall really wants to show up mike walker, though. they're best friends and former college roommates. hopefully, he'll go off big. i could use a win this week - badly.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I'm not exactly sure what we're even debating, LOL, but Shanny's quotes are in line with what I'm trying to explain. Cutler managed the game well enough to win, but the Bucs hindered their offense. That's what he said in a nutshell. The best thing I can say about Cutler last week was he played just about as well as he could play at this stage of his career against Tampa's tough cover-2 D (& that's a compliment). While Cutler is a fantastic prospect, he's not a finished product by any means. I believe he can get there, but he's got a little ways to go. I think most people agree Denver was fortunate to come put of that game with a win (considering the 16 points). Hopefully, Cutler will learn from this game & be a better QB because of it.Yes, Marshall is going to *AVERAGE* more than 7 targets a game. No one on the planet would argue otherwise. The thing about averages, though, is that sometimes you get more... and sometimes you get less. And that's okay. That's not a deviant gameplan, that's just the nature of averages.Marvin Harrison in 2002 had the most absurd year in terms of targets that I can ever remember. I'd wager it was probably the most absurd year in NFL history. The dude was targeted 202 times. 202!!! That's almost 13 targets a game ON AVERAGE. You know what? Three times that season he had "just" 8 targets. Another time he had "just" 9. Marshall's not going to TOUCH a 13-target average this year, so we can excuse him if sometimes he "only" gets 7 targets.Denver will always want to target Marshall more than 7 times (unless someone else is going off & that didn't happen). 7 targets a game equals 112 for the season & Marshall caught over 100 last year. Anyway, if Tampa is causing Cutler to checkdown to Marshall, then the Bucs have done their job. You can bet Shanny was calling plays designed to get the ball downfield to Marshall at various times during the game, but whether the Bucs confused Cutler, or he wasn't confident enough to throw it, we don't know. Tampa held the previously high-scoring Broncos offense to 16 points. Of course Cutler was somewhat hindered by the Bucs cover-2 scheme.
And like I said, Denver is NOT going to win a lot of games scoring 16 points. I understand Cutler played a pretty decent game, but I can assure you Denver's staff (& Cutler) thought they would score more than 16 points (& certainly thought they would need to score more than 16). Cutler played it extremely safe, which could've easily cost them the game. It didn't, & he managed to get the job done, which is the most important thing, but to say Cutler breezed thru Tampa's cover-2 & played a great game isn't accurate, IMO. Let's agree to disagree.
Also, you can bet that Shanny wasn't calling plays to get the ball downfield to Marshall. Going downfield wasn't part of his gameplan. He said it himself. Here are some quotes:
Translation? Denver only scoring 16 points wasn't because they didn't go vertical, it's because they didn't play the checkdown game quite well enough, didn't convert 6 different third-and-shorts.As for Denver winning while only scoring 16... they won't have to score as many points if they don't turn the ball over. 16 might have been enough against the Chiefs if they hadn't coughed the ball up four times.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Given how banged up/bad the Jacksonville secondary is, they can probably double him with not much in the way of added effect. Their safeties have been horrible with Nelson out.Exactly...that's what I was driving at... I'm hoping they are dumb enough to single cover Marshall w/ Mathis, but somehow, I doubt it.
AllVolUT
Footballguy
Thats the truth. However, I'm not so sure it was the safeties as it was plugging in CB Will James for the injured Florence. That guy is just plain bad. I haven't seen a CB get picked on so bad since Ahmad 'Batman' Carroll from GB or Jason David from NO. Luckily enough for us Jags fans, James was removed and Brian Williams moved from safety to corner. This definitely had more success against the pass in the second half of the Pitt game on SNF. With 11 minutes to go in the second quarter, Roethlisberger had passed for 184yds and 2tds. After James got smoked on a 48yd td, he sat the bench and the Jax passing defense stiffened up.Given how banged up/bad the Jacksonville secondary is, they can probably double him with not much in the way of added effect. Their safeties have been horrible with Nelson out.Exactly...that's what I was driving at... I'm hoping they are dumb enough to single cover Marshall w/ Mathis, but somehow, I doubt it.
