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Brian Calhoun Confident He'll Measure Up (1 Viewer)

To me, these guys seem very similar. Calhoun isn't quite as explosive, but it's close.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/ind...d=73927&ntpid=3

FRI., FEB 24, 2006 - 1:22 AM

NFL: Calhoun confident he'll measure up

JASON WILDE

608-252-6176

jwilde@madison.com

INDIANAPOLIS - Brian Calhoun understands that he will be picked sometime after Reggie Bush in April's NFL draft.

And he knows his first pro contract will be worth slightly less than Bush's deal.

But otherwise, Calhoun, the confident-but-not-cocky former University of Wisconsin halfback, sees little difference between himself and Bush, the Heisman Trophy-winning halfback from Southern Cal and presumptive No. 1 overall pick.

"I think so," Calhoun replied Thursday when asked at the NFL scouting combine if he thought he compared favorably to Bush. "The only difference between me and him (is), he was an inch taller than me, he was a pound heavier than me. So it'd be good to match up with him."

Actually, Bush has a little more than an inch on Calhoun - Calhoun measured 5-foot-9, Bush 5-11 - while their weights were only one pound apart (Calhoun 202, Bush 201).

But there's one other item that separates Calhoun and Bush, at least this week: Calhoun, who is projected as a late first- or early second-round pick, intends to go through all the drills when his running back group works out Saturday, while Bush will skip them and work out at USC's pro day next month.

"I believe I'm going to perform pretty well at those drills, too," said Calhoun, who like Bush declared for the draft after his junior season. "I have a lot to prove and show to the scouts and I think I can only better myself by doing that."

Calhoun admitted he was disappointed he wouldn't get to go head-to-head with Bush in drills - the two are in the same workout group, which also includes ex-Badgers fullback Matt Bernstein - but said showcasing his own talents is more important than going mano-a-mano with the star of the draft.

While Bush drew an overflow crowd to the media room at the Indiana Convention Center, Calhoun's 5-minute podium appearance was sparsely attended, and the Oak Creek native ended up talking to a handful of Wisconsin reporters afterward in a nearby hallway while Bush-a-palooza raged inside.

By Saturday, however, Calhoun's profile could rise significantly if he performs as well as expected in the drills. And just by participating, he's scoring points with the NFL scouts.

"In my eyes, and I think in most people's eyes, people who want to jump in there and compete help themselves," said Green Bay Packers general manager Ted Thompson, who also called Calhoun "a heck of a player" Thursday. "It's like a job interview. You go to do the best you can in all the events - interviews, testing, catching the ball, whatever. Guys that can do it, do it, and I think that cements the fact that they're competitors.

"When people don't do it, often times people suspect there's something they're trying to hide. That's just the cynical nature in all of us."

Calhoun admitted he enjoys proving himself, which he did by putting up huge numbers for the Badgers (348 carries for 1,636 yards and 22 touchdowns; 53 receptions for 571 yards and two TDs) last year after transferring from Colorado because then-Buffaloes coach Gary Barnett wanted to turn him into a wide receiver.

"You know what? It's funny," said Calhoun, whose decision to go pro was solidified by his 213-yard performance in the Capital One Bowl. "Sometimes transfers don't always work out the way they should and the way people hope for. But I can't say that mine hasn't, because it's worked out perfectly. And I'm just happy to be where I'm at right now."

 
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These guys seem very similar to me
And youre sitting here posting on a message board?
Not sure what that comment is supposed to mean.Bush 5'11", 202 lbs.

Calhoun 5' 9", 201 lbs.

Bush 222 total yards/game

Calhoun 169 total yards/game

Bush 19 touchdowns

Calhoun 24 touchdowns

Both are good/great receivers. Both have an extra gear. Calhoun was timed at around 4.3 coming out of high school.

Similar style game, with Bush being only slightly more explosive. Plus, Calhoun played with John Stocco, not Matt Leinert.

I'll also state, for the record, that Calhoun runs with more power than Bush.

 
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These guys seem very similar to me. Calhoun isn't quite as explosive, but it's close.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/ind...d=73927&ntpid=3

"The only difference between me and him (is), he was an inch taller than me, he was a pound heavier than me. So it'd be good to match up with him."
:lmao: When's this clown going to come back to reality? He plays the slow white kids in the big ten, dropping a couple long runs against them, and now thinks he's on Bushs' level?

:lmao: :lmao: :bye:

 
:lmao:

When's this clown going to come back to reality? He plays the slow white kids in the big ten, dropping a couple long runs against them, and now thinks he's on Bushs' level?

:lmao: :lmao: :bye:
He was a man amongst boys against Auburn in the bowl game.....I think it's safe to say Auburn has some talent on Defense and are not a bunch of slow white guys.
 
These guys seem very similar to me. Calhoun isn't quite as explosive, but it's close.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/sports/ind...d=73927&ntpid=3

"The only difference between me and him (is), he was an inch taller than me, he was a pound heavier than me. So it'd be good to match up with him."
:lmao: When's this clown going to come back to reality? He plays the slow white kids in the big ten, dropping a couple long runs against them, and now thinks he's on Bushs' level?

:lmao: :lmao: :bye:
Ask Auburn how fast he is. Also, his total yardage numbers don't inlcude returns, as Bush's do. Wisconsin had a good return guy, his name was Brandon Williams.If you'd like to look at just rushing and receiving, the toal yardage numbers look like this:

Bush 170.61 yards per game

Calhoun 169.77 yard per gam

Hmm. Seems pretty even to me. But let's not cloud things with facts. The TD numbers speak for themselves.

 
These guys seem very similar to me
And youre sitting here posting on a message board?
Not sure what that comment is supposed to mean.Bush 5'11", 202 lbs.

Calhoun 5' 9", 201 lbs.

Bush 222 total yards/game

Calhoun 169 total yards/game

Bush 19 touchdowns

Calhoun 24 touchdowns

Both are good/great receivers. Both have an extra gear. Calhoun was timed at around 4.3 coming out of high school.

Similar style game, with Bush being only slightly more explosive. Plus, Calhoun played with John Stocco, not Matt Leinert.

I'll also state, for the record, that Calhoun runs with more power than Bush.
Sorry, bad joke.When I first read it, I saw it as Calhoun/Bush are similar to YOU. As in you are 5'10, 200 and run a sub 4.4. Hence the "and youre sitting here typing on a message board?" as opposed to playing in the NFL.

I figured it out, but found it funny so i thought id share.

My bad.

 
These guys seem very similar to me
And youre sitting here posting on a message board?
Not sure what that comment is supposed to mean.Bush 5'11", 202 lbs.

Calhoun 5' 9", 201 lbs.

Bush 222 total yards/game

Calhoun 169 total yards/game

Bush 19 touchdowns

Calhoun 24 touchdowns

Both are good/great receivers. Both have an extra gear. Calhoun was timed at around 4.3 coming out of high school.

Similar style game, with Bush being only slightly more explosive. Plus, Calhoun played with John Stocco, not Matt Leinert.

I'll also state, for the record, that Calhoun runs with more power than Bush.
Sorry, bad joke.When I first read it, I saw it as Calhoun/Bush are similar to YOU. As in you are 5'10, 200 and run a sub 4.4. Hence the "and youre sitting here typing on a message board?" as opposed to playing in the NFL.

I figured it out, but found it funny so i thought id share.

My bad.
Well, similar size and weight, but they may be faster.......Funny, even though I'm slow today. :D

 
These guys seem very similar to me
And youre sitting here posting on a message board?
Not sure what that comment is supposed to mean.Bush 5'11", 202 lbs.

Calhoun 5' 9", 201 lbs.

Bush 222 total yards/game

Calhoun 169 total yards/game

Bush 19 touchdowns

Calhoun 24 touchdowns

Both are good/great receivers. Both have an extra gear. Calhoun was timed at around 4.3 coming out of high school.

Similar style game, with Bush being only slightly more explosive. Plus, Calhoun played with John Stocco, not Matt Leinert.

I'll also state, for the record, that Calhoun runs with more power than Bush.
Sorry, bad joke.When I first read it, I saw it as Calhoun/Bush are similar to YOU. As in you are 5'10, 200 and run a sub 4.4. Hence the "and youre sitting here typing on a message board?" as opposed to playing in the NFL.

I figured it out, but found it funny so i thought id share.

My bad.
Good joke, people just didn't get it. :thumbup:
 
These guys seem very similar to me
And youre sitting here posting on a message board?
Not sure what that comment is supposed to mean.Bush 5'11", 202 lbs.

Calhoun 5' 9", 201 lbs.

Bush 222 total yards/game

Calhoun 169 total yards/game

Bush 19 touchdowns

Calhoun 24 touchdowns

Both are good/great receivers. Both have an extra gear. Calhoun was timed at around 4.3 coming out of high school.

Similar style game, with Bush being only slightly more explosive. Plus, Calhoun played with John Stocco, not Matt Leinert.

I'll also state, for the record, that Calhoun runs with more power than Bush.
Sorry, bad joke.When I first read it, I saw it as Calhoun/Bush are similar to YOU. As in you are 5'10, 200 and run a sub 4.4. Hence the "and youre sitting here typing on a message board?" as opposed to playing in the NFL.

I figured it out, but found it funny so i thought id share.

My bad.
Good joke, people just didn't get it. :thumbup:
Edited. :rant: :D
 
I'm not sure why he declared this year. I'm not saying he's not NFL ready, but barring injury this guy is a 1st rounder next year. This is not the greatest year to be a RB looking for a home, either.

 
I'm not sure why he declared this year. I'm not saying he's not NFL ready, but barring injury this guy is a 1st rounder next year. This is not the greatest year to be a RB looking for a home, either.
He just went through a Big Ten season without injury carrying a pretty heavy load. Barry Alveraz retired, and most of the coaching staff turned over. Wisconsin lost their top receivers to graduation (Brandon Williams/Jonathon Orr/Owen Daniels.) Wisconsin lost 3/5 of the O line to graduation. He was explosive in the Bowl Game. I'm not sure why he would come back?

 
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Calhoun isn't anywhere near the vicinity of Reggie in several categories.

Hands-- Calhoun is fine. Reggie had the best hands at USC according to Carroll, and he played with four NFL receivers this year (counting Turner for the future). Reggie is = to a great wide receiver in this regard.

Moves-- Please.

Vision-- Double please.

They both run with nice power for their size, but I'd favor Bush who has a nice stiff arm and a better upper body.

Calhoun averaged 4.7 yards a carry this year. This is not a number that often translates to NFL success and it is something to consider carefully. He was at Wisconsin, a school noted for whopping YPCs. He doesn't have good vision. It's a big issue. Bush was 8.7. Amazing. Case closed.

 
Calhoun isn't anywhere near the vicinity of Reggie in several categories.

Hands-- Calhoun is fine. Reggie had the best hands at USC according to Carroll, and he played with four NFL receivers this year (counting Turner for the future). Reggie is = to a great wide receiver in this regard.

Moves-- Please.

Vision-- Double please.

They both run with nice power for their size, but I'd favor Bush who has a nice stiff arm and a better upper body.

Calhoun averaged 4.7 yards a carry this year. This is not a number that often translates to NFL success and it is something to consider carefully. He was at Wisconsin, a school noted for whopping YPCs. He doesn't have good vision. It's a big issue. Bush was 8.7. Amazing. Case closed.
See, this is the case where you can't just rape stats and mold them to how you want to believe the way things are.I do a lot of stats stuff, but I always make an effort to ask a provoking question, and go explore it, thinking I'm right, but taking an objective view at it. Usually, I'm right just because I do this thing a lot and know what I'm looking for. But when you're wrong, you have to admit it.... not omit obvious stats like this one.

8.7 to 4.7 YPC is a HUGE difference

 
YPC is critical in the comparison. Comparing aggregate stats ignores the fact that Bush shared time with Lendale White, another high first round draft pick.

Last year, you wouldn't have gotten a clear picture of Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams looking merely at their aggregate stats because they split time.

Bush/White is in the same situation.

 
Calhoun isn't anywhere near the vicinity of Reggie in several categories.

Hands-- Calhoun is fine. Reggie had the best hands at USC according to Carroll, and he played with four NFL receivers this year (counting Turner for the future). Reggie is = to a great wide receiver in this regard.

Moves-- Please.

Vision-- Double please.

They both run with nice power for their size, but I'd favor Bush who has a nice stiff arm and a better upper body.

Calhoun averaged 4.7 yards a carry this year. This is not a number that often translates to NFL success and it is something to consider carefully. He was at Wisconsin, a school noted for whopping YPCs. He doesn't have good vision. It's a big issue. Bush was 8.7. Amazing. Case closed.
See, this is the case where you can't just rape stats and mold them to how you want to believe the way things are.I do a lot of stats stuff, but I always make an effort to ask a provoking question, and go explore it, thinking I'm right, but taking an objective view at it. Usually, I'm right just because I do this thing a lot and know what I'm looking for. But when you're wrong, you have to admit it.... not omit obvious stats like this one.

8.7 to 4.7 YPC is a HUGE difference
Obviously it wont make up 4.0 of a difference, but Bush wasn't a short yardage or goal line back like Calhoun was. If you subtract the 1 2 and 3 yard runs Calhoun had in goalline situations and short yardage situations you will see his YPC go up greatly. Wisconsin didn't have a LenDale White to come in and eat up those low YPC carries.
 
Calhoun isn't anywhere near the vicinity of Reggie in several categories.

Hands-- Calhoun is fine.  Reggie had the best hands at USC according to Carroll, and he played with four NFL receivers this year (counting Turner for the future).  Reggie is = to a great wide receiver in this regard. 

Moves-- Please.

Vision-- Double please. 

They both run with nice power for their size, but I'd favor Bush who has a nice stiff arm and a better upper body. 

Calhoun averaged 4.7 yards a carry this year.  This is not a number that often translates to NFL success and it is something to consider carefully.  He was at Wisconsin, a school noted for whopping YPCs.  He doesn't have good vision.  It's a big issue.  Bush was 8.7.  Amazing.  Case closed.
See, this is the case where you can't just rape stats and mold them to how you want to believe the way things are.I do a lot of stats stuff, but I always make an effort to ask a provoking question, and go explore it, thinking I'm right, but taking an objective view at it. Usually, I'm right just because I do this thing a lot and know what I'm looking for. But when you're wrong, you have to admit it.... not omit obvious stats like this one.

8.7 to 4.7 YPC is a HUGE difference
Wrong about what? Raping stats? Yikes.Yes, that's a big difference. I already said Bush was more explosive, hence his ypc should be higher. As for overall numbers, they don't lie.

Hands-- Calhoun is fine. Reggie had the best hands at USC according to Carroll, and he played with four NFL receivers this year (counting Turner for the future). Reggie is = to a great wide receiver in this regard.

Right. Calhoun caught 53 balls to Bush's 37, at the very least they're equal. To say "Calhoun is fine" is a HUGE understatement. He was what? The second guy in NCAA history to post 1500 yards rushing and 500 receiving. That's more than just "fine."

Moves-- Please.

Advantage Bush. No question.

Vision-- Double please.

Calhoun has pretty good vision. I give a slight edge to Bush, but Calhoun can find the hole pretty well.

They both run with nice power for their size, but I'd favor Bush who has a nice stiff arm and a better upper body.

On several occassions, I've seen Calhoun absolutely raildroad DBs and Safties. The same cannot be said for Bush, at least when I've watched him. A nice stiff arm for sure. But they're pretty equal here.

Speed

Equal. They're both fast.

Calhoun played on the 45th best offense in the nation, not the first. With more weapons and/or a better passing game, I'm sure his numbers would've been even better.

 
Calhoun isn't anywhere near the vicinity of Reggie in several categories.

Hands-- Calhoun is fine.  Reggie had the best hands at USC according to Carroll, and he played with four NFL receivers this year (counting Turner for the future).  Reggie is = to a great wide receiver in this regard. 

Moves-- Please.

Vision-- Double please. 

They both run with nice power for their size, but I'd favor Bush who has a nice stiff arm and a better upper body. 

Calhoun averaged 4.7 yards a carry this year.  This is not a number that often translates to NFL success and it is something to consider carefully.  He was at Wisconsin, a school noted for whopping YPCs.  He doesn't have good vision.  It's a big issue.  Bush was 8.7.  Amazing.  Case closed.
See, this is the case where you can't just rape stats and mold them to how you want to believe the way things are.I do a lot of stats stuff, but I always make an effort to ask a provoking question, and go explore it, thinking I'm right, but taking an objective view at it. Usually, I'm right just because I do this thing a lot and know what I'm looking for. But when you're wrong, you have to admit it.... not omit obvious stats like this one.

8.7 to 4.7 YPC is a HUGE difference
Obviously it wont make up 4.0 of a difference, but Bush wasn't a short yardage or goal line back like Calhoun was. If you subtract the 1 2 and 3 yard runs Calhoun had in goalline situations and short yardage situations you will see his YPC go up greatly. Wisconsin didn't have a LenDale White to come in and eat up those low YPC carries.
:goodposting: Talk about omitting important information. Bush wasn't even on the field in the most important short yardage play of the season for USC.

 
Calhoun isn't anywhere near the vicinity of Reggie in several categories.

Hands-- Calhoun is fine.  Reggie had the best hands at USC according to Carroll, and he played with four NFL receivers this year (counting Turner for the future).  Reggie is = to a great wide receiver in this regard. 

Moves-- Please.

Vision-- Double please. 

They both run with nice power for their size, but I'd favor Bush who has a nice stiff arm and a better upper body. 

Calhoun averaged 4.7 yards a carry this year.  This is not a number that often translates to NFL success and it is something to consider carefully.  He was at Wisconsin, a school noted for whopping YPCs.  He doesn't have good vision.  It's a big issue.  Bush was 8.7.  Amazing.  Case closed.
See, this is the case where you can't just rape stats and mold them to how you want to believe the way things are.I do a lot of stats stuff, but I always make an effort to ask a provoking question, and go explore it, thinking I'm right, but taking an objective view at it. Usually, I'm right just because I do this thing a lot and know what I'm looking for. But when you're wrong, you have to admit it.... not omit obvious stats like this one.

8.7 to 4.7 YPC is a HUGE difference
Obviously it wont make up 4.0 of a difference, but Bush wasn't a short yardage or goal line back like Calhoun was. If you subtract the 1 2 and 3 yard runs Calhoun had in goalline situations and short yardage situations you will see his YPC go up greatly. Wisconsin didn't have a LenDale White to come in and eat up those low YPC carries.
How about this projection: Reggie Bush will rush for 4000 yards and 40 TDs in his rookie year.Don't believe me?

If Bush had Calhoun's carries, he'd have put up close to that in COLLEGE! This is how his stats would pro-rate

Calhoun - 348 / 1636 / 22TD //// 53 / 571 / 2TD

Bush (adj.) - 348 / 3028 / 28TD //// 53 / 637 / 3TD

In fact, with his average rate of 23% YPC increase per year, it looks like Bush is also going to average 50 yards per carry by his 10th year in the NFL.

Also, because of his average rate of 49% in YPC increase per year, he should be on pace for 397 carries in his rookie year.

Now, factor in his 230% increase in rushing TDs per year, and his rookie year SHOULD look something like this:

Bush's Rookie Stats

397 attemps for 4250 yards and 37TDs

As you can see, Bush is clearly capable not only going to break 4000 yards rushing in his rookie year in the NFL, but he is reasonably capable of breaking Peyton Manning's single-season record of 49TDs with time.

Do you see how stats can be misleading and you can make numbers prove whatever you want? You need to be careful how you mold things and ask yourself: "If Calhoun is a 2nd rounder and Bush is the highest-rated prospect to come out of the NFL in years.... why do they look so similar on paper?" Then, use stats to answer the question that results in the truth (Bush IS graded much higher than Calhoun), not what you want to believe (Bush and Calhoun are equal). Also, when determining things like this, you have to take causation into effect. For example, what caused their numbers to be similar? Well, for Bush, everytime he touched the ball he almost would get a first down. For Calhoun, he simply got the ball a lot more. It's easy to go "well their production was the same, so that means these RBs are the same." It takes a much more keen eye to understand the 'why' part.

 
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Calhoun isn't anywhere near the vicinity of Reggie in several categories.

Hands-- Calhoun is fine.  Reggie had the best hands at USC according to Carroll, and he played with four NFL receivers this year (counting Turner for the future).  Reggie is = to a great wide receiver in this regard. 

Moves-- Please.

Vision-- Double please. 

They both run with nice power for their size, but I'd favor Bush who has a nice stiff arm and a better upper body. 

Calhoun averaged 4.7 yards a carry this year.  This is not a number that often translates to NFL success and it is something to consider carefully.  He was at Wisconsin, a school noted for whopping YPCs.  He doesn't have good vision.  It's a big issue.  Bush was 8.7.  Amazing.  Case closed.
See, this is the case where you can't just rape stats and mold them to how you want to believe the way things are.I do a lot of stats stuff, but I always make an effort to ask a provoking question, and go explore it, thinking I'm right, but taking an objective view at it. Usually, I'm right just because I do this thing a lot and know what I'm looking for. But when you're wrong, you have to admit it.... not omit obvious stats like this one.

8.7 to 4.7 YPC is a HUGE difference
Obviously it wont make up 4.0 of a difference, but Bush wasn't a short yardage or goal line back like Calhoun was. If you subtract the 1 2 and 3 yard runs Calhoun had in goalline situations and short yardage situations you will see his YPC go up greatly. Wisconsin didn't have a LenDale White to come in and eat up those low YPC carries.
Do you see how stats can be misleading and you can make numbers prove whatever you want?
So Bush's stats aren't misleading? How many times have we seen guys who put up huge numbers when splitting time or playing "situational" roles. Calhoun just goes out and becomes a workhorse, taking every carry. He played the role of White and Bush, and did it well. Are you honestly saying that if Bush got the same amount of carries as Calhoun that he wouldn't get tired? Get stopped for no gains or losses? I find it hard to believe he'd average the same ypc if the situations were reversed.Isn't the knock on Bush the question mark surrounding his ability to carry the load? No such questions should exist with Calhoun. Sure, Bush's stats were impressive, and clearly he's the best back in the draft, but Calhoun is about as close to Bush as you're gonna find outside of pick #1. It's closer than most people like to believe.

 
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So Bush's stats aren't misleading? How many times have we seen guys who put up huge numbers when splitting time or playing "situational" roles. Calhoun just goes out and becomes a workhorse, taking every carry.  He played the role of White and Bush, and did it well.

Isn't the knock on Bush the question mark surrounding his ability to carry the load? No such questions should exist with Calhoun. Sure, Bush's stats were impressive, and clearly he's the best back in the draft, but Calhoun is about as close to Bush as you're gonna find outside of pick #1. It's closer than most people like to believe.
Apples and oranges. I'm merely trying to help this guy understand that he can't use some stats to support a point when he negates other equally important ones. That is what we call "cooking the books", where you do something like say "Charlie Garner had 2000 yards in 2002. Charlie Garner runs the football." Here we are forced to believe that Garner ran for 2000 yards in 2002. He ran for about 1000 and caught for about 1000. That's a lot different.Personally, I think Bush is overrated in the consideration that he'll be a feature back but that he'll be a gamebreaker, and he'll play the same role he did in college.... a complimentary back. At that, if he's able to do what he did in college, he'll still be worth the No.1 pick.

 
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So Bush's stats aren't misleading? How many times have we seen guys who put up huge numbers when splitting time or playing "situational" roles. Calhoun just goes out and becomes a workhorse, taking every carry.  He played the role of White and Bush, and did it well.

Isn't the knock on Bush the question mark surrounding his ability to carry the load? No such questions should exist with Calhoun. Sure, Bush's stats were impressive, and clearly he's the best back in the draft, but Calhoun is about as close to Bush as you're gonna find outside of pick #1. It's closer than most people like to believe.
Apples and oranges. I'm merely trying to help this guy understand that he can't use some stats to support a point when he negates other equally important ones. That is what we call "cooking the books".Personally, I think Bush is overrated in the consideration that he'll be a feature back but that he'll be a gamebreaker, and he'll play the same role he did in college.... a complimentary back. At that, if he's able to do what he did in college, he'll still be worth the No.1 pick.
Cool. I'm not trying to knock Bush either. I agree the guy's a game breaker, but I just find it odd that there this belief that Calhoun is so inferior.
 
So Bush's stats aren't misleading? How many times have we seen guys who put up huge numbers when splitting time or playing "situational" roles. Calhoun just goes out and becomes a workhorse, taking every carry.  He played the role of White and Bush, and did it well.

Isn't the knock on Bush the question mark surrounding his ability to carry the load? No such questions should exist with Calhoun. Sure, Bush's stats were impressive, and clearly he's the best back in the draft, but Calhoun is about as close to Bush as you're gonna find outside of pick #1. It's closer than most people like to believe.
Apples and oranges. I'm merely trying to help this guy understand that he can't use some stats to support a point when he negates other equally important ones. That is what we call "cooking the books".Personally, I think Bush is overrated in the consideration that he'll be a feature back but that he'll be a gamebreaker, and he'll play the same role he did in college.... a complimentary back. At that, if he's able to do what he did in college, he'll still be worth the No.1 pick.
Cool. I'm not trying to knock Bush either. I agree the guy's a game breaker, but I just find it odd that there this belief that Calhoun is so inferior.
I think he's more than worth a 2nd round pick, but that difference is the reason Bush is going No.1 overall and Calhoun is going in the 2nd round. There isn't much difference between a 4.3 40-time and a 4.5.... but it makes all hte difference in the world on the football field.I know it doesn't matter, but I just thought it was funny that I actually was able to somehow prove Bush could be able to break 4000 yards rushing and 40 TDs next year ;)

 
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How about this projection: Reggie Bush will rush for 4000 yards and 40 TDs in his rookie year. Don't believe me?

If Bush had Calhoun's carries, he'd have put up close to that in COLLEGE! This is how his stats would pro-rate

Calhoun - 348 / 1636 / 22TD //// 53 / 571 / 2TD

Bush (adj.) - 348 / 3028 / 28TD //// 53 / 637 / 3TD

In fact, with his average rate of 23% YPC increase per year, it looks like Bush is also going to average 50 yards per carry by his 10th year in the NFL.

Also, because of his average rate of 49% in YPC increase per year, he should be on pace for 397 carries in his rookie year.

Now, factor in his 230% increase in rushing TDs per year, and his rookie year SHOULD look something like this:

Bush's Rookie Stats

397 attemps for 4250 yards and 37TDs

As you can see, Bush is clearly capable not only going to break 4000 yards rushing in his rookie year in the NFL, but he is reasonably capable of breaking Peyton Manning's single-season record of 49TDs with time.

Do you see how stats can be misleading and you can make numbers prove whatever you want?
:yawn: Yes I see why stats can be misleading, what makes you think differently? I am the one arguing that the 4.0 difference is misleading!!All I said was the 4.0 difference is a bit misleading and stated my reason as to why. Obviously If Bush also got the short yardage carries his yardage and TDs would go up as his YPC went down, but I really don't care about that for now, I wasn't arguing that. I was just saying that the HUGE difference is misleading.

I was actually the one saying how insignificant stats are, the 4.0 difference is insignificant because the situation and carries were so different so I don't know why you went off on that rant telling me how stats can be misleading :confused: . Calhoun would have had a higher YPC if he didn't have the goalline and short yardage carries. If you aren't willing to admit that running from anywhere less than 5 yards out is going to lower a 4.7 YPC then you are just being naive. Also a runner facing a short yardage situation almost can't help but lower his YPC because the line is stacked.

 
So Bush's stats aren't misleading? How many times have we seen guys who put up huge numbers when splitting time or playing "situational" roles. Calhoun just goes out and becomes a workhorse, taking every carry.  He played the role of White and Bush, and did it well.

Isn't the knock on Bush the question mark surrounding his ability to carry the load? No such questions should exist with Calhoun. Sure, Bush's stats were impressive, and clearly he's the best back in the draft, but Calhoun is about as close to Bush as you're gonna find outside of pick #1. It's closer than most people like to believe.
Apples and oranges. I'm merely trying to help this guy understand that he can't use some stats to support a point when he negates other equally important ones. That is what we call "cooking the books".Personally, I think Bush is overrated in the consideration that he'll be a feature back but that he'll be a gamebreaker, and he'll play the same role he did in college.... a complimentary back. At that, if he's able to do what he did in college, he'll still be worth the No.1 pick.
Cool. I'm not trying to knock Bush either. I agree the guy's a game breaker, but I just find it odd that there this belief that Calhoun is so inferior.
There isn't much difference between a 4.3 40-time and a 4.5.... but it makes all hte difference in the world on the football field.
Calhoun will clock a 4.3 at the combine. You heard it hear first.
 
I was actually the one saying how insignificant stats are, the 4.0 difference is insignificant because the situation and carries were so different so I don't know why you went off on that rant telling me how stats can be misleading  :confused: .  Calhoun would have had a higher YPC if he didn't have the goalline and short yardage carries.  If you aren't willing to admit that running from anywhere less than 5 yards out is going to lower a 4.7 YPC then you are just being naive.  Also a runner facing a short yardage situation almost can't help but lower his YPC because the line is stacked.
I agree with you. But Bush is still going to do what he does on the NFL level, becuase he's not going to be a feature back like Calhoun. He's going to be a role-player, like he was at USC.Why try to make Michael Vick a pocket passer and draft all these first round WRs? He's a running QB who can throw the ball well to his TEs... why not give him a TE (Crumpler) and an equally shifty RB (Dunn).... play to his skill-sets.

Why would an NFL team want to make Bush a feature back when he is fine where he is. Getting greedy like that (as is the case with Vick), is how you destroy the value that was there originally.

Say we were having a draft for a company. Prospect Stephen Hawking let's say is the smartest person in the world. He can solve any math problem ever. Why would you compare him to Steve Forbes and then say "well, let's make Stephen Hawking a CEO for our company." On the contrary, you put him as a consultant for your company because he'd make the best statistician and theorist for any company ever. That's why you pick him first. You've already got your big-time CEO and marketing team and everything. It would be silly to go "Okay Mr. Hawking, please run our entire company." He doesn't run companies. He solves math problems, which help the company run.

Brian Calhoun = Feature Back :pickle:

Reggie Bush = no feature back :sadbanana:

Bush is still > Calhoun overall in terms of value for a team.

 
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There isn't much difference between a 4.3 40-time and a 4.5.... but it makes all hte difference in the world on the football field.
Calhoun will clock a 4.3 at the combine. You heard it hear first.
Oh, that might have been a bit misleading. I didn't mean that to apply to Calhoun v. Bush.... I'm just using that as an example for the closeness of talent that differs between a star and a guy on the practice squad.
 
There isn't much difference between a 4.3 40-time and a 4.5.... but it makes all hte difference in the world on the football field.
Calhoun will clock a 4.3 at the combine. You heard it hear first.
Oh, that might have been a bit misleading. I didn't mean that to apply to Calhoun v. Bush.... I'm just using that as an example for the closeness of talent that differs between a star and a guy on the practice squad.
That's cool. I wasn't sure how you meant it, just throwing out a crazy prediction.
 
I was actually the one saying how insignificant stats are, the 4.0 difference is insignificant because the situation and carries were so different so I don't know why you went off on that rant telling me how stats can be misleading :confused: . Calhoun would have had a higher YPC if he didn't have the goalline and short yardage carries. If you aren't willing to admit that running from anywhere less than 5 yards out is going to lower a 4.7 YPC then you are just being naive. Also a runner facing a short yardage situation almost can't help but lower his YPC because the line is stacked.
I agree with you. But Bush is still going to do what he does on the NFL level, becuase he's not going to be a feature back like Calhoun. He's going to be a role-player, like he was at USC.Why try to make Michael Vick a pocket passer and draft all these first round WRs? He's a running QB who can throw the ball well to his TEs... why not give him a TE (Crumpler) and an equally shifty RB (Dunn).... play to his skill-sets.

Why would an NFL team want to make Bush a feature back when he is fine where he is. Getting greedy like that (as is the case with Vick), is how you destroy the value that was there originally.

Say we were having a draft for a company. Prospect Stephen Hawking let's say is the smartest person in the world. He can solve any math problem ever. Why would you compare him to Steve Forbes and then say "well, let's make Stephen Hawking a CEO for our company." On the contrary, you put him as a consultant for your company because he'd make the best statistician and theorist for any company ever. That's why you pick him first. You've already got your big-time CEO and marketing team and everything. It would be silly to go "Okay Mr. Hawking, please run our entire company." He doesn't run companies. He solves math problems, which help the company run.

Brian Calhoun = Feature Back :pickle:

Reggie Bush = no feature back :sadbanana:

Bush is still > Calhoun overall in terms of value for a team.
I agree with everything you just said except the last part, which I will get into in a minute. I was just stating why I thought the 8.7 to 4.7 stat was misleading and then couldn't figure out why I got a huge post trying to tell me why stats are misleading when thats what I was saying in the first place. The part I somewhat disagree with is your last line of thought though. Bush being > than Calhoun in terms of overall value for a team depends completely on the team, especially if you are saying bush isn't even a feature back. I will say that Bush is the perceived better prospect without question so if said team thinks Calhoun is of more value they would obviously trade down rather than flat out take Calhoun over Bush.

 
Calhoun = JJ Arrington = Deangelo williams

3 guys who will never succeed in the NFL.

Unless he becomes a role player like third down back.

 
Calhoun = JJ Arrington = Deangelo williams

3 guys who will never succeed in the NFL.

Unless he becomes a role player like third down back.
Nope...Brian Calhoun will be the next Warrick Dunn or Clinton Portis. He'll be a great value in the 2nd round.
 
I like Calhoun a lot. I actually think he's more quick than fast. He's got good receiving skills, but not great.

But he just is not nearly as good as Bush. More of a testament to how good Bush is as opposed to a knock on Calhoun.

Calhoun could surprise people as an NFL RB.

 
It's official, Brian Calhoun is the best player in the draft. If I were the Houston Texans, I'd take him first and not look back.

:sarcasm:

 
I like Calhoun a lot. I actually think he's more quick than fast. He's got good receiving skills, but not great.

But he just is not nearly as good as Bush. More of a testament to how good Bush is as opposed to a knock on Calhoun.

Calhoun could surprise people as an NFL RB.
If I was too rough on Calhoun, I agree with the above. I think he has a good chance to be good. I just think Bush has a great chance to be great.
 
Calhoun = JJ Arrington = Deangelo williams

3 guys who will never succeed in the NFL.

Unless he becomes a role player like third down back.
:stalker: Oh. I see. Thanks for clearing this up!

I'll adjust my draft board accordingly! :thumbup:

:sarcasm:

 
It's official, Brian Calhoun is the best player in the draft. If I were the Houston Texans, I'd take him first and not look back.

:sarcasm:
Maybe they should take him with their second pick
 
Calhoun = JJ Arrington = Deangelo williams

3 guys who will never succeed in the NFL.

Unless he becomes a role player like third down back.
Matbe you should. :stalker:

Oh. I see. Thanks for clearing this up!

I'll adjust my draft board accordingly! :thumbup:

:sarcasm:
Last year in August most of you ignorant were ready to name Arrington rookie of the year. You guys when you see a RB that did ok in college think wow the next Barry Sanders. It good that the GM's dont think like FFL'rs.What is the difference between Williams - Calhoun and Arrington .

No difference they are all overrated.

:excited: :excited: :excited:

 
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Calhoun = JJ Arrington = Deangelo williams

3 guys who will never succeed in the NFL.

Unless he becomes a role player like third down back.
Matbe you should. :stalker:

Oh. I see. Thanks for clearing this up!

I'll adjust my draft board accordingly! :thumbup:

:sarcasm:
Last year in August most of you ignorant were ready to name Arrington rookie of the year. You guys when you see a RB that did ok in college think wow the next Barry Sanders. It good that the GM's dont think like FFL'rs.What is the difference between Williams - Calhoun and Arrington .

No difference they are all overrated.

:excited: :excited: :excited:
Yeah, and we're ignorant. I said from the beginning Bush is the better back. But Calhoun is close to Bush, talent wise. Dolt.
 
Unoficial 40 - 4.65

Just watched on NFL Network
Ouch- that's going to hurt- I saw him pegged at sub 4.4
When he finished, he looked so laid back, almost like he didn't care. I would've liked to seen atleast a little intesity.
 
Unoficial 40 - 4.65

Just watched on NFL Network
This really shouldn't surprise too many people. Calhoun always seemed to have a little difficulty getting to the outside and seems most effective off tackle where he can better use his lightning quick jukes.But Calhoun has never been considered to have great straight line speed.

 

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