Brian DeMarco- A Sad Sad Story (1 Viewer)

[Jiggyonthehut]

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

When a representative from Gridiron Greats arrived at former NFL player Brian DeMarco's home in Austin, Texas, last month offering financial relief, neither DeMarco nor his wife had eaten for two days. They piled their two young kids into the representative's rental car and went to Wal-Mart.

The first thing DeMarco bought was a cane for $11.

"My future is in a wheelchair," DeMarco said Saturday by phone before boarding a flight to Chicago.

The former offensive tackle has a titanium rod in his back from surgery on his vertebrae.

He has been diagnosed with spinal diseases he needs a medical dictionary to pronounce (ankylosing spondylitis and spondylothesis) and he routinely loses the feeling in his fingers because of nerve damage.

He is 35.

The face of opposition to the NFL Players Association's retirement benefits plan usually is wrinkled and weathered and has gray hair. The problems with NFL retirees fighting bureaucracy or financial woes have become so widespread and documented that the House Judiciary Committee has invited witnesses for an "oversight" hearing June 26 in Washington.

Rep. Linda Sanchez (D-Calif.) will chair the hearing, intended to raise awareness, before the Subcommittee on Commercial and Administrative Law.

Using his new cane, DeMarco hopes to be there to make a statement even if he never gets to say a word.

"A big part of this is seeing me as I am," said DeMarco, who will make his first public appearance as part of the cause Monday during a news conference at Ditka's restaurant. It will feature more outspoken and well-known former players Mike Ditka and Joe DeLamielleure.

"The only thing that gives me courage to do this is somebody has to be a voice for this generation too," DeMarco said. "This is not a contact sport, it's a collision sport. I absolutely want to be part of this fight."

After the Jacksonville Jaguars selected him in the second round of the 1995 NFL draft, DeMarco started all 16 games as a rookie. Before the 1999 season, the Cincinnati Bengals signed the free agent to a three-year, $3.1 million contract. But he never saw most of the money after the team cut him a season later largely because of back and elbow injuries that kept him off the field.

Any savings DeMarco had set aside evaporated quickly after paying for medical costs the last couple of years that easily topped six figures.

His condition prevents him from working to afford health insurance that expired within four years of the end of his NFL playing career.

He and his family have been homeless twice in the last three years and in such desperation that DeMarco's wife contacted the group Ditka and Jerry Kramer started for afflicted players at www.jerrykramer.com.

"I gave every quality of my life to the NFL and I don't have a quality of life now," DeMarco said. "I deserve nothing from the NFLPA? Are you kidding me? Shame on them."

Officials from the NFLPA, their offices closed for the weekend, couldn't be reached Saturday. DeMarco has had his own troubles reaching anybody from the NFLPA on the phone.

His cell-phone records show he has made 128 calls to NFLPA offices since last August. He contends he has been denied disability three times and the NFLPA has yet to assign an approved physician to examine him.

More surgery is needed for his back and elbows, but it's impossible to consider financially. He saves a little by refusing to take painkillers, but the pain can be excruciating.

Since his health insurance ran out, DeMarco estimates the NFLPA has responded with bits and pieces of financial assistance that totals around $10,000, but he blames the group for largely ignoring his pleas for help.

As an example, he recalled a conversation with one official who had sent him $100 for bus fare to a new job in Austin—and encouraged him to walk the several miles to the bus stop.

"My last personal contact with the NFLPA, I was told if I can't help myself, they can't help me," DeMarco said.

"It's not just the bureaucracy of the NFLPA, there's something else going on. I can't pinpoint it other than to look at the leadership."

That refers to NFLPA Executive Director Gene Upshaw, whom DeMarco sent several handwritten personal letters when he was homeless and desperate for money to feed his kids.

Upshaw has been the target of heavy criticism from Ditka and DeLamielleure, among others, to the point that the bickering between the rival groups has threatened to overshadow the real issue.

That will be the point of having DeMarco hobble to the front of the room Monday at Ditka's, and he hopes later this month in Congress, with his wife, Autumn, at his side and conviction in his voice.

"Unfortunately, there are hundreds of guys like me that I represent," DeMarco said. "I'm frustrated, ticked off and very disappointed. I need disability [benefits] to live. I look forward to having a life where I don't have to worry about whether I can pay my bills this month or fear an eviction.

"Do I have hope for the future? For the first time in years, yes, I do."

dhaugh@tribune.com

Shame on the NFLPA

 

[3C's]

I saw him this morning on ESPN. He was nearly in tears. Guys like this made the NFL what it is. The NFL should be taking care of his medical and providing some sort of disability payments.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

Now with the changing of the guard and Tagliabue gone,

we can only hope Goodell does the compassionate

and correct thing here.

 

[Sabertooth]

This is just not right. Glad to see people like Jerry Kramer in there advocating for these guys. I've never been one say players make too much. This is why.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

I keep telling you guys Ditka is God.

At least somebody is doing something about the continued idiocy of the NFLPA/NHL.

I still can't wait to see NO Hall of Famers on hand for Michael Irvin's induction in several weeks.

That's gonna be damned embarrassing for both the NFL and the NFLPA.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I keep telling you guys Ditka is God.At least somebody is doing something about the continued idiocy of the NFLPA/NHL.I still can't wait to see NO Hall of Famers on hand for Michael Irvin's induction in several weeks.That's gonna be damned embarrassing for both the NFL and the NFLPA.

Why no HoF folks present? Are they protesting?I have different feelings than many others but I will keep them on reserve for now.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

I keep telling you guys Ditka is God.At least somebody is doing something about the continued idiocy of the NFLPA/NHL.I still can't wait to see NO Hall of Famers on hand for Michael Irvin's induction in several weeks.That's gonna be damned embarrassing for both the NFL and the NFLPA.

Why no HoF folks present? Are they protesting?I have different feelings than many others but I will keep them on reserve for now.

Mike Ditka, Willie Davis, Joe DeLamielleure, Gale Sayers, Harry Carson and Jerry Kramer are trumpeting this cause, and I believe none of them have been to the HOF Game Weekend for quite awhile (other than Carson of course).

 

[FantasyTrader]

First, I gotta say I'm usually not the voice of the harda-s-s but I'm sceptical about many things when I read this. Exhibit A in my case would be my OWN disability insurance at work that maxes at $250,000. That seems like a very handsome chunk of change, but if I had medical bills "easily topping 6 figures" my family and I would be down at the soup kitchen in no time.

Second, is there evidence linking his NFL injury to his current condition? How can we be sure his affliction is due to NFL related injuries?

Third - why is there not some sort of FMLA compensatory fund like I have at my job? In extenuating circumstances such as this - my co-workers could donate sick time or a % of their paycheck into a fund that helps out special cases. With 30-40-50 million dollar contracts ROUTINELY being signed now in the NFL, why isn't 2% ($667,000-1 mil) of that being thrown into a players disability fund?

Fourth (and this is gonna make me REALLY sound like the a-h-o-l-e), how much was his 2nd round signing bonus in '95? 1? 2? 3 mil? I know ya need the house and cars, but maybe set 500,000 aside for a rainy day my friend?

Man, I feel for the guy - that really is a horrible story. But with gross salaries/facility maintainence/stadium payments and personnel paychecks to cut easily over 100 mil. per year per team and players retiring not at an age of 65 like the rest of the nation - but HALF that, does the responsibility rest ENTIRELY on the NFL for all of these cases?

How about a standard contract clause that whatever your rookie signing bonus is, 30% of it not to exceed $3 million is placed into a retirement account not accessible by the player until age 40?

Admittedly, I'm saying all of this without the faintest idea what this guys 2nd rd. rookie signing bonus was back in '95. But I do know that as of '07 if you were a 2nd round pick the only way you die poor is by you or your agents own stupidity.

That said, I really hope the guy gets taken care of.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Whats wrong with his wife that the entire family hasnt eatin' in 2 days?

She cant work?

She couldnt finish college while he was in the NFL making bank?

There may be fine explanation, but damn.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

First, I gotta say I'm usually not the voice of the harda-s-s but I'm sceptical about many things when I read this. Exhibit A in my case would be my OWN disability insurance at work that maxes at $250,000. That seems like a very handsome chunk of change, but if I had medical bills "easily topping 6 figures" my family and I would be down at the soup kitchen in no time. Second, is there evidence linking his NFL injury to his current condition? How can we be sure his affliction is due to NFL related injuries?Third - why is there not some sort of FMLA compensatory fund like I have at my job? In extenuating circumstances such as this - my co-workers could donate sick time or a % of their paycheck into a fund that helps out special cases. With 30-40-50 million dollar contracts ROUTINELY being signed now in the NFL, why isn't 2% ($667,000-1 mil) of that being thrown into a players disability fund?Fourth (and this is gonna make me REALLY sound like the a-h-o-l-e), how much was his 2nd round signing bonus in '95? 1? 2? 3 mil? I know ya need the house and cars, but maybe set 500,000 aside for a rainy day my friend?Man, I feel for the guy - that really is a horrible story. But with gross salaries/facility maintainence/stadium payments and personnel paychecks to cut easily over 100 mil. per year per team and players retiring not at an age of 65 like the rest of the nation - but HALF that, does the responsibility rest ENTIRELY on the NFL for all of these cases?How about a standard contract clause that whatever your rookie signing bonus is, 30% of it not to exceed $3 million is placed into a retirement account not accessible by the player until age 40?Admittedly, I'm saying all of this without the faintest idea what this guys 2nd rd. rookie signing bonus was back in '95. But I do know that as of '07 if you were a 2nd round pick the only way you die poor is by you or your agents own stupidity. That said, I really hope the guy gets taken care of.

IfI had posted this, there would have been a call for my head. I feel for them too but my God they get a ton of money while they are playing...its not like this guy came up in the 50s when they really didn't get paid much at all. What happened to the money in '95, '96, '97, '98...he had to average over half a million for those years with his signing bonus added in as a rookie. Now I know 2nd rounders don't get a lot of signing bonus compared to 1st rounders...anyone can correct me if I am wrong.

 

[3C's]

First, I gotta say I'm usually not the voice of the harda-s-s but I'm sceptical about many things when I read this. Exhibit A in my case would be my OWN disability insurance at work that maxes at $250,000. That seems like a very handsome chunk of change, but if I had medical bills "easily topping 6 figures" my family and I would be down at the soup kitchen in no time. They have been. According to DeMarco, they've been homeless and they've gone without food at times.

Second, is there evidence linking his NFL injury to his current condition? How can we be sure his affliction is due to NFL related injuries? The Bengals cut him due to his football related injuries, which of course also meant his "promised" salary and big bonus were cut off.

Third - why is there not some sort of FMLA compensatory fund like I have at my job? In extenuating circumstances such as this - my co-workers could donate sick time or a % of their paycheck into a fund that helps out special cases. With 30-40-50 million dollar contracts ROUTINELY being signed now in the NFL, why isn't 2% ($667,000-1 mil) of that being thrown into a players disability fund?I think that's kind of what they're asking the NFLPA (not the NFL) to do.

Fourth (and this is gonna make me REALLY sound like the a-h-o-l-e), how much was his 2nd round signing bonus in '95? 1? 2? 3 mil? I know ya need the house and cars, but maybe set 500,000 aside for a rainy day my friend? His 1996 salary, for an example: 464,500. That's salary and bonus. Now, Uncle Sam gets a good chunk of that. I'd imagine around 10% went to his agent. That doesn't leave much. His FA contract in 1999 with the Bengals: 3 years $3.85 million, $850,000 SB. He saw little of that since the Bengals cut him in 2000. It sounds like he did save money up: "DeMarco said he exhausted his savings paying for medical expenses."

Man, I feel for the guy - that really is a horrible story. But with gross salaries/facility maintainence/stadium payments and personnel paychecks to cut easily over 100 mil. per year per team and players retiring not at an age of 65 like the rest of the nation - but HALF that, does the responsibility rest ENTIRELY on the NFL for all of these cases?If you are hurt on the job, do you think your employer should take care of your medical expenses? And if you're unable to work because of those injuries, shouldn't the employer have to pay some sort of disability?

How about a standard contract clause that whatever your rookie signing bonus is, 30% of it not to exceed $3 million is placed into a retirement account not accessible by the player until age 40?Sounds good, but I'm not one for telling people what to do with their money.

Admittedly, I'm saying all of this without the faintest idea what this guys 2nd rd. rookie signing bonus was back in '95. But I do know that as of '07 if you were a 2nd round pick the only way you die poor is by you or your agents own stupidity.

That said, I really hope the guy gets taken care of.

Just a few counterpoints.

 

[Weiner Dog]

There are always two sides to each story...

NFL | Union documents show $10,000 in help to DeMarco

Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:22:43 -0700

Updating a previous item, Chris Mortensen, of ESPN.com, reports the NFLPA provided ESPN with nine cancelled checks totaling almost $10,000 that it paid in the past 12 months for items such as rent, utilities and child support to former NFL OL Brian DeMarco. Pro Football Hall of Famer Mike Ditka has been saying for months that if the NFL and NFLPA wanted to back up their claims that hey are helping retired players then to provide "documentation." Included were two payments in March from the Player Assistance Trust which totaled almost $3,000 covering rent and a moving company bill. A union official said the nine checks covering just under $10,000 since last June were only a "partial report." Another union official told ESPN that DeMarco is being non-responsive, saying he has not returned disability forms which have been sent to him twice and has ignored union instructions to fill out form for an annuity worth more than $40,000. DeMarco also has a 401K plan with $151,000 in it, the official said. The NFLPA official said hit also lined up a job for DeMarco in Austin, Texas, but that he "no-showed."

 

[JaxBill]

You know I can't help but wonder how much of this is related to the Jags' training staff (and Coughlin's effect on it). Boselli had to retire early because of back and shoulder issues. Jeff Novak had serious health issues because of the Jags' training staff. DeMarco leaves Jacksonville and plays 7 games before his career ends.

here's an article on Novak's problems:

http://espn.go.com/gen/s/2002/0912/1431095.html

WARNING:Some of the pictures in that article are not for the squeamish.

 

[3C's]

There are always two sides to each story...

NFL | Union documents show $10,000 in help to DeMarco

Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:22:43 -0700

Updating a previous item, Chris Mortensen, of ESPN.com, reports the NFLPA provided ESPN with nine cancelled checks totaling almost $10,000 that it paid in the past 12 months for items such as rent, utilities and child support to former NFL OL Brian DeMarco. Pro Football Hall of Famer Mike Ditka has been saying for months that if the NFL and NFLPA wanted to back up their claims that hey are helping retired players then to provide "documentation." Included were two payments in March from the Player Assistance Trust which totaled almost $3,000 covering rent and a moving company bill. A union official said the nine checks covering just under $10,000 since last June were only a "partial report." Another union official told ESPN that DeMarco is being non-responsive, saying he has not returned disability forms which have been sent to him twice and has ignored union instructions to fill out form for an annuity worth more than $40,000. DeMarco also has a 401K plan with $151,000 in it, the official said. The NFLPA official said hit also lined up a job for DeMarco in Austin, Texas, but that he "no-showed."

That's definitely more info than we've been getting. I know DeMarco has answered the question about the job. They gave him money for a bus ticket, but he had no way to get to the bus station. They told him to walk. (his version)ETA: I don't think DeMarco would dispute that he has gotten some help from the NFLPA (although $10k is not much when you have 6 figures plus in medical bills). It's just all the red tape he's had to go through while wiping out his savings to try to take care of himself.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Jerry Kramer for Hall of Fame- The case for Kramer

This is why Jerry kramer should be in the Hall of Fame. As a player he was an absolute force. His accomplishments easily equal to that of any lineman in the Hall. Further he was a cog of a 5 time Championship team and the leader of the signature paly for that dynasty. He was key to one of the most famous plays in football history, and it was he who carried Lombardi off the field in Triumph on his shoulders. He went on to write two definative best selling books on football, and has remained a class act to this day championing this cause with his time and money, fighting for guys like DeMarco. Rarely has a player been more central to the story of Fooball, nor have many given so much back.

 

[Family Matters]

I want to respond to this from 2 perspectives. Let me start with the NFLPA.

The NFLPA has left many members unprotected. There have been numerous cases where guys are not being taken care of. It shouldn't happen. They (NFLPA) are self insured. Therefore they decide who gets benefits. Part of managing their disability portfolio is managing their risk and claim underwritting. Who was covered was decised many years ago when they underwrote the plan. This is where the NFLPA left some guys out to dry. They knew this would happen based on the language written at that time. Clearly it needs changed. This is where Upshaw left gaps that have allowed palyers to be unprotected.

The claims administering is simply a function of what they underwrote years ago. When a claim is submitted it is determined to be paid based on the qualifiers that where negotiated years ago. Based on that too many people have been left unprotected. This is where Upshaw failed to represent his members.

As for the person(s) or players involved, they have a hand in this as well at least to some extent. First off, the guys that made big bonuses and where paid well should not be left unprotected. They could have protected themselves with their own personal disability policies. No excuse really. As for the less paid 3rd-7th rounders, they may not have been paid enough to afford the premiums of extra protection. But still they probably could have with proper planning.

Let me say this to all of you reading this, you could be just like these guys, left without enough insurance. But you can protect yourself too. It's called risk mamangement and it applies to everyone. Most disability group plaqns do not protect you from lost wages in a suitable manner. They may cover 60% or even 70% but that's usually not enough. You may have to pay taxes on that as well. Keep in mind that if you are disabled you will likely have higher medical bills as well. Would you be able to keep what you have (home, car, retirement plan, college tuition for kids) if you became disabled today? If you answered yes then you have planned well. But if you answered no, and I bet most of you did, then meet with a planner and fix it ASAP. You don't get to chose when and if you become disabled and or die. That's why you insure what's important to you. And for most of us our earning power is very important and it needs to be inusured.

Learn from what you're reading here. Otherwise you might be another sad story.

 

[Zowned]

sad sad sad, that this guy has many fooled ..listen to paul harvey and get the rest of the story..he gets no pitty from me..ditka shoulda hired an actor..sooo sad that how this guy makes the reral real victims look

 

[Slider]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right?

Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well.

Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them?

And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

 

[Family Matters]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

 

[3C's]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I hate repeating myself, but I'll repost what I said earlier (with a little extra). If he was injured on the job, the NFL should be taking care of his medical. If the injuries have left him in a state that he can no longer obtain gainful employment, the NFL should be providing some sort of disability payments.I don't think any of us would expect less from our employers.

 

[FantasyTrader]

I totally agree with you 3C's. I wouldn't expect anything less from my employer - but guess what, I WOULD get less. That's my point - there are very few jobs in America today where if you were disabled on the job for life you wouldn't be S.O.L. The NFLPA isn't inventing the wheel here. Many people would be and are in this guys situation.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I hate repeating myself, but I'll repost what I said earlier (with a little extra). If he was injured on the job, the NFL should be taking care of his medical. If the injuries have left him in a state that he can no longer obtain gainful employment, the NFL should be providing some sort of disability payments.I don't think any of us would expect less from our employers.

Thank you, 3C for the voice of reason and sense.

 

[Family Matters]

I totally agree with you 3C's. I wouldn't expect anything less from my employer - but guess what, I WOULD get less. That's my point - there are very few jobs in America today where if you were disabled on the job for life you wouldn't be S.O.L. The NFLPA isn't inventing the wheel here. Many people would be and are in this guys situation.

The problem isn't the benefits. The problem is qualifying for them. The NFLPA says he's not eligible. He says he got injured while playing in the NFL. The problem is how can he prove it? The kind of problem he has isn't directly related to a specific injury. It happen over time and it may not create the disability until some years later. The NFLPA feels it wasn't caused by football. I think some of us would agree that the football is the most likely cause. You just can't prove it.This is the kind of problem, like concussions, that fall into the cracks because it's not a common problem. It's more rare and therefore wasn't a leading concern when they set up the plan. What the complaint is now is that the NFLPA should somehow make ammends for the oversight. It's easier said than done but with the finances they have they should be able to come up with a workable solution.Something that should be pointed out to you and others is that your assumming that the NFLPA disability plan is like yours. It's not. It's completely different because the job is different. The typical employee plan would cover you if you became disabled while working or more importantly, while covered under the plan. The players feel the effects of playing long after they have left the NFL. Often they can no longer work several years after leaving the NFL. Unfortunatly, they may not be covered once their playing days are over. So they have to somehow prove that the disability was caused when they were playing. Not always easy to do. Rarely can you point to a specific incident and say that's what caused the problem. In football, it's usually several years of wear and tear that disable these guys.

 

[Slider]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

 

[Family Matters]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

 

[nygiants56]

Now with the changing of the guard and Tagliabue gone,

we can only hope Goodell does the compassionate

and correct thing here.

start by firing Gene Upshaw.

 

[Slider]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed. I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

 

[5Rings]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

He's getting compensated for putting his body on the line, though. Well compensated, at that.I have a tough time feeling pity for these younger guys who have been well compensated...the older guys who didn't make 100x the average joe, yes, but not the younger players.On sirious the other day, they were talking about this...and the guy on air (can't remember which NFL guy it was) said all he had to do was file a workers comp claim and he'd be covered. Kirwin shot back that NFL teams would not take kindly to this....hopefully DeMarco is an example to all other guys that will be in his situation and are scared to file.At this point, I hope the NFLPA takes care of his medical and DeMarco can get his life back on track.

 

[Doug Drinen]

This thing is a royal mess.

A couple of interesting articles here:

Chris Mortensen reports that DeMarco's claims have been met with skepticism by at least one ex-teammate:

A prominent ex-Jaguars player told ESPN that he and another former teammate "cringed" when they saw DeMarco appear at Monday's press conference. The ex-Jaguar did not want to be identified but said DeMarco has been given significant financial help by his former teammates, including three jobs "that he's blown."

"Now he's walking with a cane in front of cameras," the ex-Jaguar said. "Last time we saw him -- and it was in the past two weeks -- he didn't need a cane. He has some physical problems, yes, but there are other things going on there."

Meanwhile, Ex-Bear Duerson says Ditka is a hypocrite who just hates unions:

"Mike was not one who gave a damn about the players or their injuries when he was coaching," Duerson said in a Tribune interview. "He was very disrespectful of guys who got hurt"

"Mike has always been anti-union," said Duerson, a Pro Bowl safety who played under Ditka from 1983-89. "When I was player rep for the Bears, just having a typical union meeting was a major piece of work."

Ditka notes that Duerson is a trustee on the NFLPA's retirement board and is therefore just trying to deflect blame.In this NYT article, NFLPA head Gene Upshaw says possibly the most false thing that's ever been said in the history of humankind:

Somebody’s not telling the truth, and I have no reason to lie about any of this.

Upshaw also said he was going to break Joe DeLamielleure's neck, but he later pointed out that he didn't mean it literally.None of us will ever know 1% of the truth of all this. If we did, I'd bet that we wouldn't think too highly of anyone involved.

 

[Doug Drinen]

Now with the changing of the guard and Tagliabue gone,

we can only hope Goodell does the compassionate

and correct thing here.

start by firing Gene Upshaw.

Great idea. Along the same lines, I think Norv Turner should bench Tom Brady in week 2.

 

[nygiants56]

Now with the changing of the guard and Tagliabue gone,

we can only hope Goodell does the compassionate

and correct thing here.

start by firing Gene Upshaw.

 

[mad sweeney]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed. I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

The difference in the analogy is that firemen, policemen, etc put their lives and health on the line, and many take damage and have wear and tear. But the football player's daily work entails massive physical punishment. To me the comparasin is way off base, you can't compare overall risk with daily abuse. The stakes are definitely larger for public servants like that but EVERY football player goes through massive physical damage. Injury is a part of their jobs and lives. Most poilcemen and firemen don't come close in their entire career to suffering the physical damage an NFL player takes in a game.

 

[Slider]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed. I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

The difference in the analogy is that firemen, policemen, etc put their lives and health on the line, and many take damage and have wear and tear. But the football player's daily work entails massive physical punishment. To me the comparasin is way off base, you can't compare overall risk with daily abuse. The stakes are definitely larger for public servants like that but EVERY football player goes through massive physical damage. Injury is a part of their jobs and lives. Most poilcemen and firemen don't come close in their entire career to suffering the physical damage an NFL player takes in a game.

And they are paid accordingly.....the average public servant makes 55k. Back in the day $8 an hour was common. NFL'ers made more to PLAY A GAME.

 

[mad sweeney]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed. I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

The difference in the analogy is that firemen, policemen, etc put their lives and health on the line, and many take damage and have wear and tear. But the football player's daily work entails massive physical punishment. To me the comparasin is way off base, you can't compare overall risk with daily abuse. The stakes are definitely larger for public servants like that but EVERY football player goes through massive physical damage. Injury is a part of their jobs and lives. Most poilcemen and firemen don't come close in their entire career to suffering the physical damage an NFL player takes in a game.

And they are paid accordingly.....the average public servant makes 55k. Back in the day $8 an hour was common. NFL'ers made more to PLAY A GAME.

That's right, and their medical benefits should be tailored accordingly.

 

[Slider]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed. I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

The difference in the analogy is that firemen, policemen, etc put their lives and health on the line, and many take damage and have wear and tear. But the football player's daily work entails massive physical punishment. To me the comparasin is way off base, you can't compare overall risk with daily abuse. The stakes are definitely larger for public servants like that but EVERY football player goes through massive physical damage. Injury is a part of their jobs and lives. Most poilcemen and firemen don't come close in their entire career to suffering the physical damage an NFL player takes in a game.

And they are paid accordingly.....the average public servant makes 55k. Back in the day $8 an hour was common. NFL'ers made more to PLAY A GAME.

That's right, and their medical benefits should be tailored accordingly.

Uh...they are. You hear the 1% whining and want to spend somebody else's money to make them happy. You're compassionate, I'll give you that.

 

[pettifogger]

I have to wonder why he has not filed a workers' compensation claim; he's entitled to lifetime medical treatment for a job related injury and has no reason to care whether the former employer likes it or not. He should also be entitled to a permanent disability benefit, although they are typically fairly low.

Just a guess here, but I would guess he filed a claim in the past and settled the lifetime medical claim for a cash payment, and it turned out to be a bad move.

As for the rocks being thrown at Upshaw, he can't print money and his job is to represent current players. If the benefits for former players are insufficient they need to complain to the owners, not the current union president. How many of the current players are willing to see a big deduction from their checks to pay former players? How many of the players in 1995 were willing to see a bigger deduction to fund a disability plan that might be helping them now?

 

[Southside Stosh]

Jerry Kramer for Hall of Fame- The case for Kramer

This is why Jerry kramer should be in the Hall of Fame. As a player he was an absolute force. His accomplishments easily equal to that of any lineman in the Hall. Further he was a cog of a 5 time Championship team and the leader of the signature paly for that dynasty. He was key to one of the most famous plays in football history, and it was he who carried Lombardi off the field in Triumph on his shoulders. He went on to write two definative best selling books on football, and has remained a class act to this day championing this cause with his time and money, fighting for guys like DeMarco. Rarely has a player been more central to the story of Fooball, nor have many given so much back.

 

[Family Matters]

I have to wonder why he has not filed a workers' compensation claim; he's entitled to lifetime medical treatment for a job related injury and has no reason to care whether the former employer likes it or not. He should also be entitled to a permanent disability benefit, although they are typically fairly low.

Just a guess here, but I would guess he filed a claim in the past and settled the lifetime medical claim for a cash payment, and it turned out to be a bad move.

As for the rocks being thrown at Upshaw, he can't print money and his job is to represent current players. If the benefits for former players are insufficient they need to complain to the owners, not the current union president. How many of the current players are willing to see a big deduction from their checks to pay former players? How many of the players in 1995 were willing to see a bigger deduction to fund a disability plan that might be helping them now?

He cannot file a work comp claim. It's not covered. Further, I don't believe the NFL pays into workers comp. I believe they are self insured therefore they manage their own claims.You guys have to understand that this isn't like what the average worker gets. Totally different animal. You cannot fairly compare the two.

 

[Family Matters]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed. I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

The difference in the analogy is that firemen, policemen, etc put their lives and health on the line, and many take damage and have wear and tear. But the football player's daily work entails massive physical punishment. To me the comparasin is way off base, you can't compare overall risk with daily abuse. The stakes are definitely larger for public servants like that but EVERY football player goes through massive physical damage. Injury is a part of their jobs and lives. Most poilcemen and firemen don't come close in their entire career to suffering the physical damage an NFL player takes in a game.

And they are paid accordingly.....the average public servant makes 55k. Back in the day $8 an hour was common. NFL'ers made more to PLAY A GAME.

That's right, and their medical benefits should be tailored accordingly.

Uh...they are. You hear the 1% whining and want to spend somebody else's money to make them happy. You're compassionate, I'll give you that.

Spend someone else's money? You must not understand how this works. You seem blinded by the they get paid big money mentality. It's clouding your judgement on this issue. Very few players actually make the big money you are referring to. There are hundreds of players that make minimum NFL money and they have a short career that averages about 5 yerars, if that. Then if they are unable to work what are they to do?You do realize that they pay into the NFLPA a part of their salary? They foot the bill and they should be protected. But in some cases they are not. Not sure why you refuse to understand that there are some cases that leave guys unprotected. I sure hope you don't find yourself in this situation some day. Nothing worse then seeing a family ruined fainancially because they are not covered or their claims denied over a technicallity.

 

[FantasyTrader]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed. I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

The difference in the analogy is that firemen, policemen, etc put their lives and health on the line, and many take damage and have wear and tear. But the football player's daily work entails massive physical punishment. To me the comparasin is way off base, you can't compare overall risk with daily abuse. The stakes are definitely larger for public servants like that but EVERY football player goes through massive physical damage. Injury is a part of their jobs and lives. Most poilcemen and firemen don't come close in their entire career to suffering the physical damage an NFL player takes in a game.

And they are paid accordingly.....the average public servant makes 55k. Back in the day $8 an hour was common. NFL'ers made more to PLAY A GAME.

That's right, and their medical benefits should be tailored accordingly.

Uh...they are. You hear the 1% whining and want to spend somebody else's money to make them happy. You're compassionate, I'll give you that.

Spend someone else's money? You must not understand how this works. You seem blinded by the they get paid big money mentality. It's clouding your judgement on this issue. Very few players actually make the big money you are referring to. There are hundreds of players that make minimum NFL money and they have a short career that averages about 5 yerars, if that. Then if they are unable to work what are they to do?You do realize that they pay into the NFLPA a part of their salary? They foot the bill and they should be protected. But in some cases they are not. Not sure why you refuse to understand that there are some cases that leave guys unprotected. I sure hope you don't find yourself in this situation some day. Nothing worse then seeing a family ruined fainancially because they are not covered or their claims denied over a technicallity.

Come on now Family, stick to the point. We're not talking about hundreds of NFL players here. This thread is about a guy who was a 2nd round pick in '95. I wish we had details about his rookie contract. I do agree with you by the way that this is just a nasty situation and I hope the guy gets taken care of. It sucks cuz I too think the NFLPA are hanging their hats on a technicality here.

 

[Slider]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right? Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well. Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them? And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat. Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed. I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

The difference in the analogy is that firemen, policemen, etc put their lives and health on the line, and many take damage and have wear and tear. But the football player's daily work entails massive physical punishment. To me the comparasin is way off base, you can't compare overall risk with daily abuse. The stakes are definitely larger for public servants like that but EVERY football player goes through massive physical damage. Injury is a part of their jobs and lives. Most poilcemen and firemen don't come close in their entire career to suffering the physical damage an NFL player takes in a game.

And they are paid accordingly.....the average public servant makes 55k. Back in the day $8 an hour was common. NFL'ers made more to PLAY A GAME.

That's right, and their medical benefits should be tailored accordingly.

Uh...they are. You hear the 1% whining and want to spend somebody else's money to make them happy. You're compassionate, I'll give you that.

Spend someone else's money? You must not understand how this works. You seem blinded by the they get paid big money mentality. It's clouding your judgement on this issue. Very few players actually make the big money you are referring to. There are hundreds of players that make minimum NFL money and they have a short career that averages about 5 yerars, if that. Then if they are unable to work what are they to do?You do realize that they pay into the NFLPA a part of their salary? They foot the bill and they should be protected. But in some cases they are not. Not sure why you refuse to understand that there are some cases that leave guys unprotected. I sure hope you don't find yourself in this situation some day. Nothing worse then seeing a family ruined fainancially because they are not covered or their claims denied over a technicallity.

Apparently you have no grasp of the current health crisis. No company is backing anyone 100%. So, some 5 year minimum guy is supposed to be cared for for life? He gets a pension and it's not the NFL's job to be their guardian for life. For every DeMarco there's 20 guys rolling right along. You apparently don't own a company.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

Ditka and Duerson were on Mac, Jurko and Harry's Show on ESPN1000 in Chicago, and Ditka spoke first. Then Duerson.

Then Ditka, and the Duerson started talking over him - infuriating Ditka so much he simply hung up.

Then Duerson (in a bush league move said Ditka gets paid $7K+ per month from the NFLPA for his pension, and then saying what it was annually).

Duerson obviously had some cold hard facts and 'talk points' from the NFLPA in front of him, and Ditka was is he usually is, overly emotional and blustery. I give Ditka credit for not taking any cheap shots at Duerson though, as it's pretty common knowledge that Duerson was arrested for domestic battery, and resigned from some board at Notre Dame.

Link of the dust-up - but not all the stuff leading up to it (which was pretty good): http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

 

[Family Matters]

I'm with the NFLPA on this. They do what they said they would. These guys didn't build the NFL any more than gambling and FF did. In no other profession does this happen and they knew what they were playing for at the time. Is Wal-Mart or Microsoft supposed to go back and give workers in the 50's (you get the point) millions? Exxon Mobil should certainly give older workers a couple more thousand a month....right?

Just because NFL'ers are visible doesn't mean they should be rewarded. When they were loving life and traveling around making above average money they weren't thinking about the guys cleaning the stadiums for peanuts. If my business grows miraculously, I'll pay the current employees more. I'm not even thinking about the ones that quit 6 years ago although I wish them well.

Millions are getting by on substandard Medicare and Social Security. They built this country. Should we all chip in more Social Security to help them?

And don't act like the NFL is kicking them to the curb. The NFL does give out more than they have to.

I understand your point but I think you're missing a very big one:

Most people aren't asked to put their body on the line for their employer. This has some dynamics that need addressed that can't be compared to the average job. The risk factors are very different.

And most people don't have a training room and doctor within 200' of them. Firemen? Police? Military? Putting your life on the line to play a game that you chose to play is much different than putting your life on the line at a normal job or for everyone's benefit. They played ball for a career and have a pension. it's tough luck but they just missed the boat.

Quit acting like they were forced to play. Most took anything they could and none quit. I'm guessing it wasn't so bad. Seems to me if they worked a normal job you wouldn't even know their name and they wouldn't be on the front page.

Let's give those poor politicians that got busted some coin too. They'll never find a 125k job in the private sector. Certainly all that travel and begging for votes took from their normal private life.Poor guys.

Wow. I can't even respond to this because you're way out there. Why would anyone compare this to what police, fireman or military do? You're so far off base here that I hope you can see your way back. Sounds like you need a

Because you're saying they put their body on the line for their employer. Fireman, Police and Military do. Should pro bowlers (the sport) get lifetime money and care for their shoulder? Should 1940 race car guys get a big chunk from Nascar? The fact is they played a game they loved and were lucky enough to do that. They did it as much for their self as they did for their employer. Nobody else gets the added coverage you think these guys should get. They get a pension and social security. That's all they're owed.

I'm sorry you can't understand. I think you too many.

The difference in the analogy is that firemen, policemen, etc put their lives and health on the line, and many take damage and have wear and tear. But the football player's daily work entails massive physical punishment. To me the comparasin is way off base, you can't compare overall risk with daily abuse. The stakes are definitely larger for public servants like that but EVERY football player goes through massive physical damage. Injury is a part of their jobs and lives. Most poilcemen and firemen don't come close in their entire career to suffering the physical damage an NFL player takes in a game.

And they are paid accordingly.....the average public servant makes 55k. Back in the day $8 an hour was common. NFL'ers made more to PLAY A GAME.

That's right, and their medical benefits should be tailored accordingly.

Uh...they are. You hear the 1% whining and want to spend somebody else's money to make them happy. You're compassionate, I'll give you that.

Spend someone else's money? You must not understand how this works. You seem blinded by the they get paid big money mentality. It's clouding your judgement on this issue. Very few players actually make the big money you are referring to. There are hundreds of players that make minimum NFL money and they have a short career that averages about 5 yerars, if that. Then if they are unable to work what are they to do?

You do realize that they pay into the NFLPA a part of their salary? They foot the bill and they should be protected. But in some cases they are not. Not sure why you refuse to understand that there are some cases that leave guys unprotected. I sure hope you don't find yourself in this situation some day. Nothing worse then seeing a family ruined fainancially because they are not covered or their claims denied over a technicallity.

Apparently you have no grasp of the current health crisis. No company is backing anyone 100%. So, some 5 year minimum guy is supposed to be cared for for life? He gets a pension and it's not the NFL's job to be their guardian for life. For every DeMarco there's 20 guys rolling right along. You apparently don't own a company.

Why do you want to talk in extremes? No one is saying what you are. You are making points that while they have merit, they don't really need stated in this conversation. The health crisis (whatever that is) has no bearing to this issue. So I understand you, you are going to roll this guy (and any others) into the "There's not enough of them to worry about category" or the "Others are fine so we're not going to worry about this one" category? That's nice to know you're willing to piss on the few so that the many can feel good. Brilliant.

Who pissed in your coffee?

 

[Mpudi]

Now with the changing of the guard and Tagliabue gone,

we can only hope Goodell does the compassionate

and correct thing here.

start by firing Gene Upshaw.

Great idea. Along the same lines, I think Norv Turner should bench Tom Brady in week 2.

 

[ditka85]

Ditka and Duerson were on Mac, Jurko and Harry's Show on ESPN1000 in Chicago, and Ditka spoke first. Then Duerson.

Then Ditka, and the Duerson started talking over him - infuriating Ditka so much he simply hung up.

Then Duerson (in a bush league move said Ditka gets paid $7K+ per month from the NFLPA for his pension, and then saying what it was annually).

Duerson obviously had some cold hard facts and 'talk points' from the NFLPA in front of him, and Ditka was is he usually is, overly emotional and blustery. I give Ditka credit for not taking any cheap shots at Duerson though, as it's pretty common knowledge that Duerson was arrested for domestic battery, and resigned from some board at Notre Dame.

Link of the dust-up - but not all the stuff leading up to it (which was pretty good): http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

The full interview can be heard here

 

[Family Matters]

Here's an interesting take from a current player. This may be something that enough players would support if the NFLPA would take a leadership role in finding solutions. I found this at PFT:

POSTED 8:55 a.m. EDT; UPDATED 9:30 a.m. EDT, June 14, 2007

KALU WEIGHS IN ON RETIRED PLAYERS

In a Tuesday appearance on SportsRadio 610 in Houston, Texans defensive end N.D. Kalu shared his views regarding the current controversy between retired players and the NFL Players Association.

Kalu says that more need to be done to help the players who paved the way for today's six-figure and seven-figure salaries.

He also suggested that he would be willing to give up $10,000 per year in salary to help the former players, and that other players should be asked to do the same in the hopes of creating a fund that would take care of former players who need help. (Hey, if the requisite amount is $10,000, Mike Vick already has cut the check.)

Kalu also made the possible mistake of calling out NFLPA leadership for not pushing something like this to its members.

"It's a shame, and it's actually scary, because I'm gonna be one of these former players," Kalu said. "But I feel with a billion-dollar industry the guys in the '50s, '60s who made it for guys like myself to make the money we make now, you have to take care of them.

"I've never been a big-money guy, but I'll even take a pay cut if it means putting some money to a fund to take care of these guys who made it possible for us to make six, seven digits a year. I just think it's a shame that you got guys who played in the NFL 10, 12 years and they can barely walk or they're suffering depression and they don't have the billion-dollar industry they helped build help them. . . ."

So would other players be willing to give up some money, too?

"I couldn't imagine guys on my teams that I played with, player for who wouldn't. If every player just put $10,000 into a fund I'm sure that would help immensely, and I don't think guys would shy away from doing that . . . . It's a shame that [NFLPA president] Troy Vincent or [NFLPA executive director] Gene Upshaw didn't come to the table and suggest such a thing."

(Uh-oh. Somebody's gonna get his neck broken.)

Kalu's point is a good one. Plenty of guys might be willing to kick in some cash, but someone has to take a position of leadership on the issue before a fund for retired players can ever be created. Such leadership should come, in our view, from the leadership of the union. If it doesn't, someone from the rank-and-file should show some leadership and seek out a change in the leadership. Of the leadership.

 

[mad sweeney]

It's a good point because like he said they will all be former players at some point. Paying into it now could help them if they become disabled in the future. If guys can shell out $10K "straight cash homie" just to pose after a TD, I doubt 10K would be missed Remember, "10K ain't #### to me". And if the NFL matched th eplayer's contribution, well then you got something there.

But that's only part of the problem. The people who need this are the ones who are truly disabled, not just guys that are sore form their years of playing. Some would call them the "whiney 1%". The problem these guys have is that the NFL doctors will not classify them as disabled, despite the fact that they cannot walk or stay off pain meds enough to hold down any kind of job. So policy/system changes have to occur as well.

There was a Real Sports episode about a few former players who couldn't get classified as disabled. GUys who take 5 minutes to stand up from an arm chair. One of them even talked about checking out if it kept up the way things are, as calm as if he was talking about going to Hawaii for the summer.

But I agree, there is a ton of cash for the players to donate, pay ahead as it were. Another example, Jerry Porter would've had to pay $220K to Reebok to take #84. He said he wouldn't do it becaue there wre a couple of nice cars he could buy with that money so he'd rather keep it. There should be plenty of money to help out the few guys that are ruined from the game.

 

[Family Matters]

It's a good point because like he said they will all be former players at some point. Paying into it now could help them if they become disabled in the future. If guys can shell out $10K "straight cash homie" just to pose after a TD, I doubt 10K would be missed Remember, "10K ain't #### to me". And if the NFL matched th eplayer's contribution, well then you got something there.But that's only part of the problem. The people who need this are the ones who are truly disabled, not just guys that are sore form their years of playing. Some would call them the "whiney 1%". The problem these guys have is that the NFL doctors will not classify them as disabled, despite the fact that they cannot walk or stay off pain meds enough to hold down any kind of job. So policy/system changes have to occur as well. There was a Real Sports episode about a few former players who couldn't get classified as disabled. GUys who take 5 minutes to stand up from an arm chair. One of them even talked about checking out if it kept up the way things are, as calm as if he was talking about going to Hawaii for the summer. But I agree, there is a ton of cash for the players to donate, pay ahead as it were. Another example, Jerry Porter would've had to pay $220K to Reebok to take #84. He said he wouldn't do it becaue there wre a couple of nice cars he could buy with that money so he'd rather keep it. There should be plenty of money to help out the few guys that are ruined from the game.

 

[super sleeper]

The problem with the whole controversy is that the real issues are not being discussed. As admirable a mission this is for Ditka, who doesn't have any financial stake in this, nor does he need the help, he is going about it the wrong way. He is collecting anecdotal evidence, which is intended to play on the emotions of the public. I understand why, but it doesn't address the real issues, and it reduces the argument to a political battle. If Brian DeMarco is exagerrating his injuries, or he's got other issues contributing to his inability to work, that doesn't mean all players who need help are doing this. Johnny Unitas lost the use of his arm and was denied disability.

The problem is that the pension and disability plans, which are run by the NFLPA, were negotiated under collective bargaining agreements in the early '80s, and in each subsequent CBA, while salaries and benefits for current players have gone up, they have not gone up at anywhere near the same rate.

Also, since the Disability fund is self-administered by the NFLPA, they have a much higher decline rate than the general public. Some players, like Conrad Dobler, are declared 90% disabled by a doctor, but still declined. That's because the NFLPA decides whether it's "football related". Someone who has cognitive issues 10 years after he leaves the game is denied coverage. Someone who has a degenerative nerve condition, or a chronic back problem, with onset of debilitating symptoms 20 years later, is denied their claim. Those of you comparing this to the everyday worker who applies for disability are very short-sighted about the differences between being an accountant and being a football player.

Finally, a self-administered plan means that every disability claim paid is paid out of the union kitty. Union members supposedly contribute over $100 million a year in dues and only $19 million is paid out in claims. There is a conflict of interest in that the Union itself stands to gain financially if it denies claims. They have resisted attempts in the past to have an arbiter decide claims, since they know that that would cost them more money. Upshaw is right when he says that he works for the current players, but it doesn't mean that he can't show some compassion. But I think ego and competitiveness gets in the way with former players like Ditka and Upshaw. Instead of coming to an amicable solution, now it's all about winning.

 

[Family Matters]

The problem with the whole controversy is that the real issues are not being discussed. As admirable a mission this is for Ditka, who doesn't have any financial stake in this, nor does he need the help, he is going about it the wrong way. He is collecting anecdotal evidence, which is intended to play on the emotions of the public. I understand why, but it doesn't address the real issues, and it reduces the argument to a political battle. If Brian DeMarco is exagerrating his injuries, or he's got other issues contributing to his inability to work, that doesn't mean all players who need help are doing this. Johnny Unitas lost the use of his arm and was denied disability.The problem is that the pension and disability plans, which are run by the NFLPA, were negotiated under collective bargaining agreements in the early '80s, and in each subsequent CBA, while salaries and benefits for current players have gone up, they have not gone up at anywhere near the same rate.Also, since the Disability fund is self-administered by the NFLPA, they have a much higher decline rate than the general public. Some players, like Conrad Dobler, are declared 90% disabled by a doctor, but still declined. That's because the NFLPA decides whether it's "football related". Someone who has cognitive issues 10 years after he leaves the game is denied coverage. Someone who has a degenerative nerve condition, or a chronic back problem, with onset of debilitating symptoms 20 years later, is denied their claim. Those of you comparing this to the everyday worker who applies for disability are very short-sighted about the differences between being an accountant and being a football player.Finally, a self-administered plan means that every disability claim paid is paid out of the union kitty. Union members supposedly contribute over $100 million a year in dues and only $19 million is paid out in claims. There is a conflict of interest in that the Union itself stands to gain financially if it denies claims. They have resisted attempts in the past to have an arbiter decide claims, since they know that that would cost them more money. Upshaw is right when he says that he works for the current players, but it doesn't mean that he can't show some compassion. But I think ego and competitiveness gets in the way with former players like Ditka and Upshaw. Instead of coming to an amicable solution, now it's all about winning.

Thanks for saying it in better terms than I could. This is a very good picture of what most of the problems are.I will say this about Ditka and his attempt to bring awareness to the problem, it's working. More attention is being paid than before and that's a good thing.