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Broncos 2007 in-season thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter moleculo
- Start date
moleculo
Footballguy
This is true - Broncos haven't lost to a poor team yet - first half of the schedule has been brutal, and it should get easier from here on out.However, I have pretty much given up on this team this year. I've resigned to the fact that the Broncos will finish 7-9 or worse, and I've made peace with that. With this kind of understanding, my expectations are way lowered and I'm not as grumpy during the week after a Broncos loss. Should the Broncos win, well, that's just gravy.If the Broncos can pull off a nice string of wins (starting last week) and make something out of this season, I'll change the sub-title of this thread. Until that happens, I'm gonna continue to go with the pessimistic view.
moleculo
Footballguy
And with that, the Broncos are back into first place in the AFC West. With the Chargers imploding and the Chiefs losing LJ, the division is ripe for the taking.
I don't know what can happen in the playoffs, but I do know that it's more important to enter the playoffs with some momentum, and sometimes it's better to claw your way in (just ask any Stiller fan).
remaining schedule:
Nov 25 @Chicago 4:15pm
Dec 2 @Oakland 4:05pm
Dec 9 Kansas City 4:15pm
Dec 13 @Houston 8:15pm
Dec 24 @San Diego 8:00pm
Dec 30 Minnesota 4:15pm
4-2 out of this bunch is a reasonable (optimistic) expectation which would put the Broncos at 9-7.
Cutler looked fantastic tonight, both RB's looked better than I expected, the D stepped up (despite the massive difference in time of possession), and Javon is still coming back. Things are definitely looking up.
I don't know what can happen in the playoffs, but I do know that it's more important to enter the playoffs with some momentum, and sometimes it's better to claw your way in (just ask any Stiller fan).
remaining schedule:
Nov 25 @Chicago 4:15pm
Dec 2 @Oakland 4:05pm
Dec 9 Kansas City 4:15pm
Dec 13 @Houston 8:15pm
Dec 24 @San Diego 8:00pm
Dec 30 Minnesota 4:15pm
4-2 out of this bunch is a reasonable (optimistic) expectation which would put the Broncos at 9-7.
Cutler looked fantastic tonight, both RB's looked better than I expected, the D stepped up (despite the massive difference in time of possession), and Javon is still coming back. Things are definitely looking up.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Obviously, the game against San Diego is probably going to be a must-win, but the key will be how they do in those other road games. Games at Chicago and Houston are winnable, but this team could just as easily lose them. Still, despite everything they have been through this year, it is mid-November, and they are tied for first place. Not bad at all. And as a Broncos fan, how can you not be excited by the play of Jay Cutler? He just keeps getting better and better, and like I have said before, QBs generally show much improvement in their 3rd year in that system, so Cutler could be a top 5 QB as early as next year. 
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Yesterday's loss was inexcusable.
Kicking to Hester on that kickoff after he had already run a punt back for a TD was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. And blame for that has to go to Mike Shanahan. Yes, he is a great coach, but he deserves all of the blame for a loss that might eventually keep them out of the playoffs, and it is a loss that should have been a win.
And letting Rex Grossman come back and beat you like that? They should just blow that defense up, because that was utterly pathetic.
Very few Broncos losses have disgusted me as much as yesterday's loss did. I still don't how they blew that game.
Bottom line: This team is not good enough to win the AFC West, even in a down year (for the division) like this. The offense looks to be in great shape for the future, with Cutler showing improvement each and every week, but that defense needs a near-complete overhaul, with the exception being Bailey and a few others, obviously.
Kicking to Hester on that kickoff after he had already run a punt back for a TD was one of the dumbest things I have ever seen. And blame for that has to go to Mike Shanahan. Yes, he is a great coach, but he deserves all of the blame for a loss that might eventually keep them out of the playoffs, and it is a loss that should have been a win.
And letting Rex Grossman come back and beat you like that? They should just blow that defense up, because that was utterly pathetic.
Very few Broncos losses have disgusted me as much as yesterday's loss did. I still don't how they blew that game.
Bottom line: This team is not good enough to win the AFC West, even in a down year (for the division) like this. The offense looks to be in great shape for the future, with Cutler showing improvement each and every week, but that defense needs a near-complete overhaul, with the exception being Bailey and a few others, obviously.
Agree with that for the most part.We still need a RT as Pears is flat out awful. Walkers knee concerns me. I don't know if he will ever be healthy again.The defense sucks, but something is wrong with Champ. He hasn't been playing very well. I've been impressed with the young guys on defense though. Crowder, Thomas, Dumervil, DJ, Abdullah, and recently Paymah have been playing well. We desperately need to fix the OLB situation. Webster is flat out awful. He sucks against the run, and he constantly gets burned on play action.We need a DT next to Thomas and some OLB at the very least next year.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Upgrading the pass rush, somehow, someway, has got to be their main goal in the off-season. Having those great corners doesn't mean a thing if you cannot generate a pass rush. Even the best corners can only cover WRs for no more than 5 seconds or so. If you give a QB that much time to stand back there and scan the field, someone will get open. Notice how the teams that win in the playoffs are almost always the ones who can get to the QB, and get to him often?
Walker's health is definitely a concern. They need to shut him down for the season and let him heal and get ready for next year.
Walker's health is definitely a concern. They need to shut him down for the season and let him heal and get ready for next year.
I agree, but I think our DE's will be fine next year with Moss and Ekuban coming back and Crowder and Dumervil having a full year under their belt. Too often the DE gets pressure and the QB just steps up to avoid it and the DT's haven't been even close. Yeah Dumervil gets stone walled sometimes, but so does everybody else.I think getting a legit DT and some OLBs will help the most. Personally I'd like them to go after Corey Williams and Boss Bailey. That would help out a lot.And in the draft Jeff Otah and Beau Bell with our first two picks.
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Part of it is just Champ returning to earth after an otherworldly season (much like how Manning and Tomlinson both have after their record-setting years). He's still playing well, just not out of his mind. Part of it is a scheme thing, too- Denver just doesn't have the personnel to run this scheme, even the new modified version of it they've been sporting since the bye. I'd love to see them scrap it all and return to the ridiculous blitzing ways of 2005 in an effort to just stay afloat for the rest of the season.
moleculo
Footballguy
A SLB who can run with a TE would pay huge dividends.
Special teams has, again, been horrible. I can't imagine a much worse ST season, overall. Allowing Hester do do what he did yesterday, allowing a blocked punt, terrible. Between this year and last year, ST continues to be the Achilles heel of this team.
This was a disgusting loss, to say the least. Absolutely inexcusable to give up 14 points in 7 minutes to the likes of Rex Grossman and Adrian Peterson, on a day when Bears WR's were dropping passes left and right and all RB's had issues with traction.
Special teams has, again, been horrible. I can't imagine a much worse ST season, overall. Allowing Hester do do what he did yesterday, allowing a blocked punt, terrible. Between this year and last year, ST continues to be the Achilles heel of this team.
This was a disgusting loss, to say the least. Absolutely inexcusable to give up 14 points in 7 minutes to the likes of Rex Grossman and Adrian Peterson, on a day when Bears WR's were dropping passes left and right and all RB's had issues with traction.
I understand that, but something still appears to be wrong with him.Denver doesn't have the personnel to run any scheme and that's the problem. Their LBs and DT's are absolutely horrible.
Special Teams actually have been pretty solid this season, it just seems like they haven't because of a few memorable bad plays very early in the year and the recent collapse against the Bears. Prior to this week, Football Outsiders ranked Denver's STs 14th over the full season, 11th when they weighted more recent performances more strongly. Denver was mildly below average on placekicking, second worst in the league at kickoff returns, solidly above average on kickoffs and punts, and third best in the league on punt returns (seriously).Also, for all the talk of how stupid it was to kick to Hester, what I find ironic is the thing that finally did them in was when Chicago blocked a punt because Sauerbrun was too busy trying to angle it away from Devin Hester. If he'd just kicked it deep, odds are good that Denver would have won (assuming Hester didn't return his third kick for a score, of course).
Williams and Gold are fine, they're just playing in a scheme that's not working. They're supposed to be able to flow to the ball because the DTs keep blockers off them. The DTs haven't been keeping blockers off, so they haven't been able to make anything happen. They've looked a lot better since the bye week, though. Except for Webster, he's just terrible.
We seriously need to upgrade our OT's and DT's. We consistently get overmatched at the LOS in almost every game. LB's also need to replaced especially Webster.
Another WR might be nice as I doubt Walker comes back and Stokley can't be relied upon as a #2.
Not to mention a FB that can block. How I miss howard griffith.
Another WR might be nice as I doubt Walker comes back and Stokley can't be relied upon as a #2.
Not to mention a FB that can block. How I miss howard griffith.
G
General Tso
Guest
Dude - you guys SUCK!!!! That was a pathetic performance tonight. No heart whatsoever.! How can you let a bunch of minor leaguers go up and down on you like a cheap suit? That as abysmal.
Last time I ever bet on Denver. Mile High Mental Midgets if you askme.
Last time I ever bet on Denver. Mile High Mental Midgets if you askme.
I've been reading a lot of threads tonight, and GT seems to be posting in a lot of them. I haven't seen a single positive contribution, though, for all the key mashing he has been doing.Dude - you guys SUCK!!!! That was a pathetic performance tonight. No heart whatsoever.! How can you let a bunch of minor leaguers go up and down on you like a cheap suit? That as abysmal.
Last time I ever bet on Denver. Mile High Mental Midgets if you askme.
That article on Walker is pretty weird. He knows that this offense can be something special, but he wants to jet for more money. He's been hurt more often than not, so basically he'll be taking a sub-premium deal to learn a new system some place like San Fran that is a lot further away from success than he knows Denver to be. Sometimes the decisions these guys make are pretty baffling.As for what Denver needs this offseason, I think the key is a speedy, quality MLB so they can shift DJ back to OLB. Denver missed Al Wilson more this year than any other player. The Broncos had a historically good running defense a year or two ago because the LB's were flying all over the field. That plus Champ made a mean combo, and all they needed to do was get some pass rushers. Rather than doing that, though, Al got hurt and the LB corps fell apart. Now that Dumervil is showing signs of being a quality pass rusher, and the young guys are getting experience, I think it would be a prime time to invest in the LB spot again.
I also really miss Alex Gibbs. I don't feel as if the O line has been anything like they were when he was in Denver, when they could bring in people to learn the system and be great rather than trusting on size or talent alone. Remember how the small but talented O-line manhandled the league back in 1996? Watching him go to Atlanta, then having the Falcons running game explode for the last few years was pretty sad...
Edit to add link.
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G
General Tso
Guest
Well, the only positive thing I've sen from you is that avatar. That thing rocks!!!!My point may be presented in a way you don't like, but it is spot on. Your boys performed like midgets tonight. That was a Sorry excuse for an NFL game if you ask me. If I was Shanny I would have instantly fired a couple of players tonight. You should be ashamed.I've been reading a lot of threads tonight, and GT seems to be posting in a lot of them. I haven't seen a single positive contribution, though, for all the key mashing he has been doing.Dude - you guys SUCK!!!! That was a pathetic performance tonight. No heart whatsoever.! How can you let a bunch of minor leaguers go up and down on you like a cheap suit? That as abysmal.Last time I ever bet on Denver. Mile High Mental Midgets if you askme.
hofer
Footballguy
No, I am done with "speedy" linebackers what this team needs is a BRUTE in the middle. These LB's can get almost anywhere (if they don't get blocked, which happens a lot) , but they can't tackle AT ALL or in DJ's case over pursue by a mile and they are still not fast enough to match up with fast tight ends either. Denver needs size at about every physical position (and not bad size like Sam Adams). Al Wilson was definitely the key to the defense though. The O-Line has been very banged up this year, and I have no doubt they would be better with Nalen and Ben Hamilton, though they need to start to think about these guys' replacements because they are getting up there in years (Nalen and Lepsis that is).
IMO it's not the interior of the o-line that has been the problem. It has been the tackles. Jay consistently is able to step up in the pocket, and he must because of the pressure from the DE's against our weak OTs. I love lepsis, but he obviously can't go up against physical DE's or speedy DE's. Don't even talk about Pears, that guy is awful.
moleculo
Footballguy
General Tso> if you expected anything other than disappointment from the Broncos last night, well I guess you haven't been watching them that closely.Dude - you guys SUCK!!!! That was a pathetic performance tonight. No heart whatsoever.! How can you let a bunch of minor leaguers go up and down on you like a cheap suit? That as abysmal.Last time I ever bet on Denver. Mile High Mental Midgets if you askme.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Is that a threat or a promise?
zamboni
Footballguy
If it's a Denver thread, we must talk about the RB situation - even though the luster has seemed to have worn off versus past years.
If Henry beats the suspension all offseason, does he get another shot to be the guy? Are Young and/or Hall going to be in the equation? Or none of the above, with a new sheriff in town?
If Henry beats the suspension all offseason, does he get another shot to be the guy? Are Young and/or Hall going to be in the equation? Or none of the above, with a new sheriff in town?
moleculo
Footballguy
To me, it is starting to smell like RBBC -> Henry gets the hard, short yardage stuff, and Selvin gets the 1-10 type carries. I think that's what this has morphed into, and I don't see any reason to expect anything different next year (barring salary cap type cuts.)
Al Wilson was a speedy, undersized linebacker.
Every camp is a tryout, so it depends on what Henry does during the offseason, but assuming he's healthy and assuming Denver doesn't cut him for cap reasons, he's going to get a shot at the job. It's possible that Young beats him out for it, but I don't think Hall is anything special at all. If I had to put money on it, I'd say that if Henry is still in town, Henry is still the guy.zamboni said:
BusMan
Footballguy
Sauerbrun out, Ernster in. Again.
moleculo
Footballguy
too bad that didn't happen before the chicago game...
L
LordOpie
Guest
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Not only is 6-9 very disappointing for a team that had aspirations of winning the division and possibly going deep into the playoffs, but the fact that six of those nine losses are by double digits (and three by more than 20 points) is extremely embarrassing. The Broncos simply didn't compete in far too many games this season. This is easily the worst season they have had under Mike Shanahan. The only other season is which they finished under .500 was 1999, but at least then, they finished pretty strong after getting off to a terrible start in trying to cope without John Elway for the first time in forever. This team is acting like they just want the season to be over.
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Bears_Man2
Footballguy
I too had pretty high hopes for the Broncos. What are the contract status's of Henry & Javon? Would seem to me that they've got some decisions to make there. Probable restructuring?
As much as there is to like about Marshall, I think losing Javon (provided he can get healthy) would be a huge blow to that offense. (as he's a legit 1, again if healthy). I'm not certain I'd want to go into next year with Selvin Young as my surefire starter either.
As much as there is to like about Marshall, I think losing Javon (provided he can get healthy) would be a huge blow to that offense. (as he's a legit 1, again if healthy). I'm not certain I'd want to go into next year with Selvin Young as my surefire starter either.
On the other hand, Denver's dismantlings of Kansas City and Tennessee both rate among the best games any team has played against any competition all season long by Football Outsiders, even when you adjust for the quality of competition. It's been a disappointing season, but I wouldn't blame apathy as much as I'd blame inconsistency.
Two games do not make a season and you put way to much emphasis on football outsiders.The second KC game was our SB and the Tennessee game was a clear sign of a game being of great importance to Shanny. Similar to his games against the Raiders. Shanny had a bad season as well.I think the Broncos miss Kubiak a lot more then people think. It's obvious Hermdinger isn't doing a good job...two fullback dives from the three? Horrible calls.
It wasn't just two games, those were just the two examples I showed. There was also the Pittsburgh win and the overtime game vs. Green Bay. Denver played some very, very good football this season. They just happened to play some very, very bad football this season, too.And I place emphasis on Football Outsiders because there's not a single statistic out there that gives a better account of what happened during the course of a game than DVOA, and because there isn't a single stat or expert out there that can match the PREDICTIVE power of DVOA, either. DVOA works. The results bear it out.I agree that the red-zone offense for this team has been pretty brutal and predictable, but that's a problem that dates back to the Kubiak era. It's not like our offense was good in the red zone and then Kubiak left and it fell apart- we've had drives stalling out due to predictable playcalling since the turn of the century.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Stuff like that makes me even more disappointed with this season. It shows that they had the talent to actually be a very good team this year, but for whatever reasons, they weren't able to get much done.
I think part of the problem is having RBs who are unable to get the tough yards in the red zone. Sure, anyone can run for 1,000 yards in the Denver backfield, but getting yardage in between the 20s is not the problem...it is getting the tough yards in the red zone where the problem has been for years. People can say what they want about Terrell Davis, but he was awesome at getting the tough yards. If there was a 3rd and short, he was getting that first down. If he got the ball in the red zone, he would find a way to get the ball in the end zone. They haven't had a back like that since him.SSOG said:
msommer
Footballguy
In other news, water is wet.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Heh. Sure, it is obvious to some of us, but I think a lot of people have it in their heads that any RB can do the same things in the Denver offense that T.D. did, and that simply is not true. T.D.'s greatness in the red zone is just one example.
Portis was also awesome in short yardage. He was a different kind of short-yardage back, though. He didn't just lower his body and power for yards like Davis did- I've never seen an RB get lower to the ground than Davis since maybe Earl Campbell- but he could make himself compact and hit the tiniest holes I've ever seen an RB take, and his vision was incredible. If there was even the slightest gap on the line, Portis was finding it, hitting it, and getting to the second level.
Once again
There are plenty of personnel executives around the league who believe - and the video largely confirms it - a Broncos failed running play on first down near the opposing end zone will be followed by two pass plays.
The Broncos held to that form late in the third quarter, when they got inside the Chargers 10-yard line, trailing 23-0. Travis Henry ran for two yards on first down from the 7, moving the ball to the San Diego 5-yard line.
The Broncos then followed with two pass attempts - both incomplete and both to the offensive right side. Jason Elam kicked a 23-yard field goal on fourth down.
"We didn't convert when it counted," Shanahan said.
In three of the Broncos' most painful losses this season - a nine-point loss to the Jaguars as well as overtime losses to the Bears and Packers - Denver had four running plays in each of those games from their opponents' 6-yard line or closer. They gained one or fewer yards on 10 of those plays and scored a touchdown on just one.
The Broncos also surrendered the ball on downs at the Chargers' 2-yard line in the fourth quarter when they didn't convert a third-and-2 or a fourth-and-1. Fullback Cecil Sapp was stopped on third- and fourth-down runs.
It doesn't take personel executives to figure out the broncos playcalling tendencies...the friggen fans have noticed all season
There are plenty of personnel executives around the league who believe - and the video largely confirms it - a Broncos failed running play on first down near the opposing end zone will be followed by two pass plays.
The Broncos held to that form late in the third quarter, when they got inside the Chargers 10-yard line, trailing 23-0. Travis Henry ran for two yards on first down from the 7, moving the ball to the San Diego 5-yard line.
The Broncos then followed with two pass attempts - both incomplete and both to the offensive right side. Jason Elam kicked a 23-yard field goal on fourth down.
"We didn't convert when it counted," Shanahan said.
In three of the Broncos' most painful losses this season - a nine-point loss to the Jaguars as well as overtime losses to the Bears and Packers - Denver had four running plays in each of those games from their opponents' 6-yard line or closer. They gained one or fewer yards on 10 of those plays and scored a touchdown on just one.
The Broncos also surrendered the ball on downs at the Chargers' 2-yard line in the fourth quarter when they didn't convert a third-and-2 or a fourth-and-1. Fullback Cecil Sapp was stopped on third- and fourth-down runs.
It doesn't take personel executives to figure out the broncos playcalling tendencies...the friggen fans have noticed all season
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Understatement of the year, but we need big time help in the draft on the d-line. The Broncos didn't get to see enough of Moss to see what kind of player he will be. But I wouldn't be surprised to see them go D-line or Linebacker first round and then reverse that the next round.
Lynch needs to retire and move on to assitant coaching somewhere and then the Broncos need to do something about Abdullah since he simply cannot tackle at all. I mean he is worthless. If they keep Bates around, he needs to have a say in the draft and get players that will fit whatever scheme they plan to run next year and not just draft players and hope to push the round peg in a square hole. 140 rushing yards a game average given up is sickening.
The offense will improve--Cutler's decision making will get better. I mean this was basically his rookie year, but he needs to stop the late passes across the middle where the LB just sits down, jumps the play and waits for the INT.
Sadly enough the time has come for perhaps the Broncos to draft a PK later--Elam has been a god, but I think time has finally catching up with him--perhaps they will also have to look to get a punter via free agency or late draft pick.
Lynch needs to retire and move on to assitant coaching somewhere and then the Broncos need to do something about Abdullah since he simply cannot tackle at all. I mean he is worthless. If they keep Bates around, he needs to have a say in the draft and get players that will fit whatever scheme they plan to run next year and not just draft players and hope to push the round peg in a square hole. 140 rushing yards a game average given up is sickening.
The offense will improve--Cutler's decision making will get better. I mean this was basically his rookie year, but he needs to stop the late passes across the middle where the LB just sits down, jumps the play and waits for the INT.
Sadly enough the time has come for perhaps the Broncos to draft a PK later--Elam has been a god, but I think time has finally catching up with him--perhaps they will also have to look to get a punter via free agency or late draft pick.
I think we need to focus on OT-LB-and DT in the draft. Abdullah will be fine this is his first year starting he will get better.Bates had a say in last years draft, hence the reason they got Moss, Crowder, and Thomas.I'd like us to get that Clady (OT) in the first, followed by that Beau Bell from UNLV (MLB) in the second.Beau can start at MLB, move DJ to WLB where he should be, and pick up Dansby, Briggs, or Bailey to play SLB.Pick up Corey Williams to play DT and Jordan Gross to take over for Pears who is awful.I'd like to get a better guard as well, but I'll be surprised if we do.FS should be looked at as well. Eugene Wilson will be a FA as well as Bob Sanders. Either one would be fine.Courtjester said:
It's too late to address it in the draft. Rookie OLs don't play in Denver. Since Shanahan came to town, rookies have accounted for ONE start (and that was a meaningless week 17 game where the rookie only got the start because Shanahan was resting Lepsis for the playoffs). Denver drafted a tackle last year preparing for the loss of Lepsis, so now it's just time to hope that they were right and that he's ready to go.
broncofan13000
Footballguy
Do you think Ryan Harris will be good enough to be the starting Left Tackle? The Lepsis retirement also frees a good chunk of capspace...
The Broncos certainly think so, because they drafted him to be Lepsis' successor. This is a blocking scheme and a coaching staff that makes its living by grabbing mid-to-late round guys and letting them sit in the system for a while. It's how it's always been. I'd go so far as to say that, outside of maybe Jake Long, Ryan Harris with a year under his belt would be better than any rookie, just because he knows the system, which is key.Even if Harris isn't great, the line running game will still be successful, and Daniel Graham can go a long way to covering for Harris' shortcomings. The line play this year was extremely sub-standard (mostly as a result of the complete chaos left in the wake of the injuries), but Denver still ranked 5th in ypa and 9th in yards rushing. Lepsis is a huge loss, but this line has functioned without him before and will probably be able to do it again.
This is a good read IMO. I don't entirely trust football outsiders, were he gets his stats, but for the most part I think they are decent. It really pounds home the fact that we need to replace Webster and the LDT spot on defense. Not to mention how much we missed Nalen and how much we are going to miss Lepsis.
http://www.milehighreport.com/story/2008/1/2/4430/49808
http://www.milehighreport.com/story/2008/1/2/4430/49808
