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Broncos RB. (2 Viewers)

weebs said:
Is ball even worth a roster spot anymore?
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I'd rather roster Bell than Hillman, at this point. I have an easier time seeing a scenario where he wrests the top job away from Moreno than seeing one where Hillman does. Reports out of Denver continue to say that the coaching staff really believes he can be an elite back, and there's undoubtedly some backside-covering going on, but team insiders keep saying that they expected all along that he wouldn't be really hitting his stride until midseason. Of course, that's only if your league is deep enough where it makes sense to roster anyone other than Moreno.

 
Carries almost evenly split between Hillman and Moreno. Playing the exact same D. Hillman had a 3.3 YPC and Moreno a 6.5.

Moreno might not have lived up to his first round grade to this point, but he's running circles around these other guys...

 
Adam Harstad said:
weebs said:
Is ball even worth a roster spot anymore?
Click to expand...
I'd rather roster Bell than Hillman, at this point. I have an easier time seeing a scenario where he wrests the top job away from Moreno than seeing one where Hillman does. Reports out of Denver continue to say that the coaching staff really believes he can be an elite back, and there's undoubtedly some backside-covering going on, but team insiders keep saying that they expected all along that he wouldn't be really hitting his stride until midseason. Of course, that's only if your league is deep enough where it makes sense to roster anyone other than Moreno.
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I don't think he will wrest the job away from Moreno this year ... If it aint broke dont fix it.

But I think he will be next in line if Moreno gets injured.

 
TheFanatic said:
Carries almost evenly split between Hillman and Moreno. Playing the exact same D. Hillman had a 3.3 YPC and Moreno a 6.5.

Moreno might not have lived up to his first round grade to this point, but he's running circles around these other guys...
Click to expand...
The week before, those splits were almost perfectly reversed- Hillman had a 6+ YPC, and Moreno had a 3.0 YPC. Over the full season, Moreno has 5.2 ypc to Hillman's 4.8, so they're pretty much identical at this point. Either way, I don't think YPC is the way to judge them. Moreno got first crack at the snaps in the first half, and Hillman came in when Moreno needed a breather. Regardless of the YPC, the usage pattern made it clear that Hillman is carrying Moreno's water.

 
monk said:
Adam Harstad said:
weebs said:
Is ball even worth a roster spot anymore?
Click to expand...
I'd rather roster Bell than Hillman, at this point. I have an easier time seeing a scenario where he wrests the top job away from Moreno than seeing one where Hillman does. Reports out of Denver continue to say that the coaching staff really believes he can be an elite back, and there's undoubtedly some backside-covering going on, but team insiders keep saying that they expected all along that he wouldn't be really hitting his stride until midseason. Of course, that's only if your league is deep enough where it makes sense to roster anyone other than Moreno.
Click to expand...
I don't think he will wrest the job away from Moreno this year ... If it aint broke dont fix it.

But I think he will be next in line if Moreno gets injured.
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I don't think Ball is likely to win the job at any point, but I do think he's more likely than Hillman. In shallower redrafts, I don't think any of them are worth rostering except for Moreno.

 
Ball is riding the pine for the rest of the year. They aren't letting that kid stand beside Manning with any regularity. He is third on the depth chart because he is a rookie and the worst in pass pro.

If Moreno goes down, the starting job is Hillman's. No way that rookie starts. He doesn't even rotate in anymore...

 
zoonation said:
Ball is riding the pine for the rest of the year. They aren't letting that kid stand beside Manning with any regularity. He is third on the depth chart because he is a rookie and the worst in pass pro.

If Moreno goes down, the starting job is Hillman's.
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i'm willing to guess this isn't and won't be the case. the Broncos had him rotating with the 1s early in the NYG and Oakland games which showed they felt pretty ok with him playing with PM. The issue seems directly related to fumbles not pass pro. Hillman was pretty much removed from the gameplan the week after he fumbled too

 
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Adam Harstad said:
TheFanatic said:
Carries almost evenly split between Hillman and Moreno. Playing the exact same D. Hillman had a 3.3 YPC and Moreno a 6.5.

Moreno might not have lived up to his first round grade to this point, but he's running circles around these other guys...
Click to expand...
The week before, those splits were almost perfectly reversed- Hillman had a 6+ YPC, and Moreno had a 3.0 YPC. Over the full season, Moreno has 5.2 ypc to Hillman's 4.8, so they're pretty much identical at this point. Either way, I don't think YPC is the way to judge them. Moreno got first crack at the snaps in the first half, and Hillman came in when Moreno needed a breather. Regardless of the YPC, the usage pattern made it clear that Hillman is carrying Moreno's water.
Click to expand...
Adam Harstad said:
TheFanatic said:
Carries almost evenly split between Hillman and Moreno. Playing the exact same D. Hillman had a 3.3 YPC and Moreno a 6.5.

Moreno might not have lived up to his first round grade to this point, but he's running circles around these other guys...
Click to expand...
The week before, those splits were almost perfectly reversed- Hillman had a 6+ YPC, and Moreno had a 3.0 YPC. Over the full season, Moreno has 5.2 ypc to Hillman's 4.8, so they're pretty much identical at this point. Either way, I don't think YPC is the way to judge them. Moreno got first crack at the snaps in the first half, and Hillman came in when Moreno needed a breather. Regardless of the YPC, the usage pattern made it clear that Hillman is carrying Moreno's water.
Click to expand...
Bear with me, I will try to say this without too many circles:

I don't think we can say the ypc is pretty much identical at 5.2 vs 4.8 because of a few reasons (but I'm not countering Adam's statement, just trying to illustrate something here).

.4 ypc difference is pretty big to those who like to follow that stat in a vacuum. We have pretty much seen 100 people on these boards spend all summer saying they would pass on Arian foster this year because they were "concerned" about that ypc dipping .2. So it IS big..to those people (which, btw, Foster looks fine to me).

But, like I said in the Foster thread, all that factoring is relative, because when you are the back in for the short yardage, the goal line, the killing the clock, that skews the ypc. So I think Adam is right, you can't look at ypc in figuring this. But what you can look at is what the Broncos are doing. It is as clear as anything you can be clear about in the NFL that this is Moreno all the way and the role for Ball is situational and the role for Hillman is change-up and as long as they stay healthy, this will not change.

On the play that Moreno got yanked yesterday for the penalty, that very play was the sack Manning took. When you watch, Moreno is absolutely excelling at pass protection. I just don't think the Broncos can ignore that at all.

 
Are those of you touting Anderson for this season being serious? I only play in redrafts, so I won't care about next year til next year gets here.

 
The only reason the Hillman/Ball experiment is still being toyed with is the Broncos are blowing folk out. When the game is still a game, who is in the game?

 
zoonation said:
Ball is riding the pine for the rest of the year. They aren't letting that kid stand beside Manning with any regularity. He is third on the depth chart because he is a rookie and the worst in pass pro.

If Moreno goes down, the starting job is Hillman's. No way that rookie starts. He doesn't even rotate in anymore...
Click to expand...
Ball has more snaps than Hillman (77 vs. 73), more carries than Hillman (39 vs. 25), has and spent more snaps in pass protection than Hillman (9 vs. 6). PFF has him as the highest rated pass blocker among the three backs, mostly because he's got the most snaps without screwing up so far. Plus, like I said, the coaching staff is still highly complimentary of Ball and essentially silent about Hillman.

 
HurryUpSundays said:
The only reason the Hillman/Ball experiment is still being toyed with is the Broncos are blowing folk out. When the game is still a game, who is in the game?
Click to expand...
Moreno and Hillman.

 
Riffraff said:
HurryUpSundays said:
The only reason the Hillman/Ball experiment is still being toyed with is the Broncos are blowing folk out. When the game is still a game, who is in the game?
Click to expand...
Moreno and Hillman.
Click to expand...
few weeks ago it was Moreno and Ball. It's a 3-headed committee and, barring injury, probably will be all year

 
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Buffaloes said:
Riffraff said:
HurryUpSundays said:
The only reason the Hillman/Ball experiment is still being toyed with is the Broncos are blowing folk out. When the game is still a game, who is in the game?
Click to expand...
Moreno and Hillman.
Click to expand...
few weeks ago it was Moreno and Ball. It's a 3-headed committee and, barring injury, probably will be all year
Click to expand...
I agree that it's a RBBC all year. Moreno gets the lion's share, then the next guy is probably about the game plan of the week.

 
Buffaloes said:
Riffraff said:
HurryUpSundays said:
The only reason the Hillman/Ball experiment is still being toyed with is the Broncos are blowing folk out. When the game is still a game, who is in the game?
Click to expand...
Moreno and Hillman.
Click to expand...
few weeks ago it was Moreno and Ball. It's a 3-headed committee and, barring injury, probably will be all year
Click to expand...
Outside of the game against the Giants, Ball has gotten one touch in the first half and just five touches prior to the 4th quarter. It's been rare this season for him to see the field when the outcome of the game was even the slightest bit in question.

 
Adam Harstad said:
zoonation said:
Ball is riding the pine for the rest of the year. They aren't letting that kid stand beside Manning with any regularity. He is third on the depth chart because he is a rookie and the worst in pass pro.

If Moreno goes down, the starting job is Hillman's. No way that rookie starts. He doesn't even rotate in anymore...
Click to expand...
Ball has more snaps than Hillman (77 vs. 73), more carries than Hillman (39 vs. 25), has and spent more snaps in pass protection than Hillman (9 vs. 6). PFF has him as the highest rated pass blocker among the three backs, mostly because he's got the most snaps without screwing up so far. Plus, like I said, the coaching staff is still highly complimentary of Ball and essentially silent about Hillman.
Click to expand...
But isn't Ball in during garbage time at the end of the games? When teams aren't really blitzing? I'm just curious. Ball doesn't seem to get that many careers in the first half and it's not long into the second that the Broncos have a blowout going...

 
Adam Harstad said:
zoonation said:
Ball is riding the pine for the rest of the year. They aren't letting that kid stand beside Manning with any regularity. He is third on the depth chart because he is a rookie and the worst in pass pro.

If Moreno goes down, the starting job is Hillman's. No way that rookie starts. He doesn't even rotate in anymore...
Click to expand...
Ball has more snaps than Hillman (77 vs. 73), more carries than Hillman (39 vs. 25), has and spent more snaps in pass protection than Hillman (9 vs. 6). PFF has him as the highest rated pass blocker among the three backs, mostly because he's got the most snaps without screwing up so far. Plus, like I said, the coaching staff is still highly complimentary of Ball and essentially silent about Hillman.
Click to expand...
In the last two games Ball didn't see the field until the game was well in hand. Those stats mean squat. Watch the game. It is Moreno and Hillman spelling him right now. Ball got all the garbage time in the fourth quarter.

 
Shutout said:
Otis said:
purestrength said:
Are those of you touting Anderson for this season being serious? I only play in redrafts, so I won't care about next year til next year gets here.
Click to expand...
Deadly serious.
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Yes, serious. This kid has the ability to be a factor if the opportunity ever arises.
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how? What is this based on?

CJ was an undrafted rookie, who appeared in exactly one pre-season game. He looked great running with the 3rd team, I'll grand you that, but there really is no indication that he will ever pass the three guys ahead of him for meaningful playing time. The next time he dresses for a game will be the first time.

You want to hold onto him as a dynasty lottery ticket? I get that, but he has zero value in re-draft. Consider - John Fox has a history of not trusting rookies. He has to get past two RB's that Elway/Fox drafted highly (2nd and 3rd rounds), both of whom Fox continues to sing praises of. The third guy he has to pass is the best pass-blocker/receiver on the team and has started every game so far.

 
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Again, I like him a lot in dynasty but even I don't get the redraft love.

The Broncos don't need a great running game -- they just need someone who can get what's there and not screw things up by getting Manning killed or fumbling. Moreno's pretty much got this thing on lockdown for 2013 unless he gets hurt.

 
zoonation said:
Adam Harstad said:
zoonation said:
Ball is riding the pine for the rest of the year. They aren't letting that kid stand beside Manning with any regularity. He is third on the depth chart because he is a rookie and the worst in pass pro.

If Moreno goes down, the starting job is Hillman's. No way that rookie starts. He doesn't even rotate in anymore...
Click to expand...
Ball has more snaps than Hillman (77 vs. 73), more carries than Hillman (39 vs. 25), has and spent more snaps in pass protection than Hillman (9 vs. 6). PFF has him as the highest rated pass blocker among the three backs, mostly because he's got the most snaps without screwing up so far. Plus, like I said, the coaching staff is still highly complimentary of Ball and essentially silent about Hillman.
Click to expand...
In the last two games Ball didn't see the field until the game was well in hand.
Click to expand...
Ball was in early two weeks ago against the Raiders and had his first carry when Denver was up 7-0 in the 1st quarter. His role was minimal this past week--similar to Hillman's situation the week after he fumbled when Hillman logged 2 snaps against NY.

 
moleculo said:
Shutout said:
Otis said:
purestrength said:
Are those of you touting Anderson for this season being serious? I only play in redrafts, so I won't care about next year til next year gets here.
Click to expand...
Deadly serious.
Click to expand...
Yes, serious. This kid has the ability to be a factor if the opportunity ever arises.
Click to expand...
how? What is this based on?CJ was an undrafted rookie, who appeared in exactly one pre-season game. He looked great running with the 3rd team, I'll grand you that, but there really is no indication that he will ever pass the three guys ahead of him for meaningful playing time. The next time he dresses for a game will be the first time.

You want to hold onto him as a dynasty lottery ticket? I get that, but he has zero value in re-draft. Consider - John Fox has a history of not trusting rookies. He has to get past two RB's that Elway/Fox drafted highly (2nd and 3rd rounds), both of whom Fox continues to sing praises of. The third guy he has to pass is the best pass-blocker/receiver on the team and has started every game so far.
Click to expand...
I play dynasty so I answered the question incorrectly for the most part. I guess the way it was asked and answered, it looks like I said yes in redraft but I meant if and only if the opportunity arises, then yes I think he can do something this year. However, if I played in redraft I probably couldn't justify a pre-emotive pickup. I would have to be like most and just react to the bidding war if it happened that he was going to get a shot

 
wdcrob said:
Again, I like him a lot in dynasty but even I don't get the redraft love.

The Broncos don't need a great running game -- they just need someone who can get what's there and not screw things up by getting Manning killed or fumbling. Moreno's pretty much got this thing on lockdown for 2013 unless he gets hurt.
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:goodposting:

sig.jpg


 
A friend of mine, who also is playing in the FBG PC, was drafting and like 12th round, Moreno was still there. He knew I was high on Moreno (drafted in the 9th) and I was screaming at him, "Moreno ... take Moreno!" and he said "Moreno is your thing. I'm not drafting Moreno."

The other day, he said to me, "I really regret not listening to you on that Moreno thing."

Just FYI ... there's another EXCELLENT pass blocking RB, for a Manning, that might be on your waiver wire right now.

 
OG_GF said:
A friend of mine, who also is playing in the FBG PC, was drafting and like 12th round, Moreno was still there. He knew I was high on Moreno (drafted in the 9th) and I was screaming at him, "Moreno ... take Moreno!" and he said "Moreno is your thing. I'm not drafting Moreno."

The other day, he said to me, "I really regret not listening to you on that Moreno thing."

Just FYI ... there's another EXCELLENT pass blocking RB, for a Manning, that might be on your waiver wire right now.
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WTF does any of this mean?

 
Last week Moreno played 31 snaps and Hillman played 31 snaps. So clearly, last week anyways, Hillman was playing more often than just giving Moreno a breather.

 
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gradin123 said:
Last week Moreno played 31 snaps and Hillman played 31 snaps. So clearly, last week anyways, Hillman was playing more often than just giving Moreno a breather.
Click to expand...
Did you watch the game?

That's pretty much exactly what it was. The Broncos were so far ahead that they started playing small ball ... resting starters already. Game was out of hand when Hillman came in. He looked OK ... but it was pretty clear that he was in there ... kinda like an expendable soldier. They NEED Moreno, they don't NEED Hillman.

 
TheFanatic said:
OG_GF said:
A friend of mine, who also is playing in the FBG PC, was drafting and like 12th round, Moreno was still there. He knew I was high on Moreno (drafted in the 9th) and I was screaming at him, "Moreno ... take Moreno!" and he said "Moreno is your thing. I'm not drafting Moreno."

The other day, he said to me, "I really regret not listening to you on that Moreno thing."

Just FYI ... there's another EXCELLENT pass blocking RB, for a Manning, that might be on your waiver wire right now.
Click to expand...
WTF does any of this mean?
Click to expand...
It means OG GF is off his meds again going on and on in multiple threads about how great he was about Moreno.

Notice he was not around after week 1 or 3...but quite loud after week 2 and 4.

 
OG_GF said:
gradin123 said:
Last week Moreno played 31 snaps and Hillman played 31 snaps. So clearly, last week anyways, Hillman was playing more often than just giving Moreno a breather.
Click to expand...
Did you watch the game?

That's pretty much exactly what it was. The Broncos were so far ahead that they started playing small ball ... resting starters already. Game was out of hand when Hillman came in. He looked OK ... but it was pretty clear that he was in there ... kinda like an expendable soldier. They NEED Moreno, they don't NEED Hillman.
Click to expand...
This is patently incorrect. Hillman was getting snaps when it is was a 1 point game. And a lot of snaps when it was a 1 score game.Did you watch the game?

 
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Moreno is the top dog. He is not going to be a "featured back" though. I do think that if Denver ever gets in close games you will see a larger dose of Moreno. He has taken a lot of flack, but to my eye, as a runner he always gets what is available and then some. Hillman looks like he has more acceleration than Moreno, but that is about it. Moreno is deceptively fast. He has gotten the corner on a number of runs this season - twice for 20 plus yard touchdowns. He is better in pass protection, has shown better vision, and he runs with more power than Hillman.

Hillman is the handcuff at this point - If Moreno gets hurt, Hillman would be at the top of the pecking order. He could also be used as a desperation start and could have some productive games when Denver is blowing out the other team.

 
watching this whole game - Moreno seems to ask out a lot . . . even after only a few consecutive snaps on the field . . .

Ball now in after Hillman goes out with an injury . . .

 
Moreno with the TD. Hes an indespensible part of the offense right now. Makes big plays in so many ways - running, receiving, blocking, etc

 
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