purestrength
Footballguy
At the moment, Moreno seems like the most underrated player in FF.
And he is so deserving of an injury-free season.
And he is so deserving of an injury-free season.
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Broncos RB. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
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duaneok66
Footballguy
HurryUpSundays
Footballguy
purestrength
Footballguy
Rotoworld just now referred to Moreno as "an every-week RB2 in fantasy leagues."
RB2? Really?
RB2? Really?
Jewell
Footballguy
To admit the obvious (that Moreno is a solid RB1) is for the so-called experts who have been dismissing Moreno as flex position filler at best to admit they were wrong all along. A lot of people have an incredibly difficult time admitting they were wrong.
duaneok66
Footballguy
I heard Christopher Harris of ESPN laugh when he ranked Moreno as a top 10 RB this week as if it was a joke - Moreno was already a top 10 RB for the season before this week.
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purestrength
Footballguy
At the moment, Moreno is RB4 overall in PPR scoring -- ahead of Lynch, Foster, AP and countless others -- although AP has had a bye week already.
Only Charles, Forte and McCoy (he sucks) are ahead of him.
Only Charles, Forte and McCoy (he sucks) are ahead of him.
Krilons Resa
Footballguy
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Man, for guys like me who waited for RB2 and drafted lotto tickets later he has been the motherlode. He is finishing runs better than I have ever seen him do before..
Eviloutsider
Footballguy
A while back (after week one) I talked about his value and then traded him for Kaep (as my starter over Romo). Needless to say my season has turned into a pile of crap because of that one trade as my depth (Wilson, D. Richardson, and Vereen) are gone and my 3rd RB is Bolden.
The reason I bring this up is now I need him back and was wondering what his trade value is?
The reason I bring this up is now I need him back and was wondering what his trade value is?
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Your WR1 and a first rounder and only if the guy has sick depth at RB or is out of the playoff hunt, which is crazy if he is starting Moreno every week. In other words, probably more than you can afford with those RB's on your roster.... Good luck bro!
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
Knowshon Moreno was widely considered a UFA after this season, but Denver has a team option on his contract that will keep him in town through 2014. Denver has a lot of contract issues looming on the horizon (Decker is a UFA after 2013, Demaryius, Julius, and Wes are all UFAs after 2014, Von is a UFA after 2014 with a team option for 2015 which will certainly be exercised, Woodyard is a UFA after 2013, Rogers-Cromartie is a UFA after 2013, Orlando Franklin is a UFA after 2014, Chris Harris is an RFA after 2013, Rahim Moore is a UFA after 2014, and so on, and so forth.) Still, as well as Moreno has been playing, you have to wonder if they might not carve out a tiny bit of cap space to keep him around for at least one more year.
purestrength
Footballguy
I've decided that Rotoworld sucks as bad as that running back named McCoy. ;-)
RB2? For Moreno? He's got an outside shot (barring injury) of finishing in the top five overall.
RB2? For Moreno? He's got an outside shot (barring injury) of finishing in the top five overall.
Denver should let him go as the free market will pay him more than he's worth. He's a decent back who is benefiting from the passing offense around him.
You're allowed to change your mind on a player, especially if that player changes his level of play. Ask anyone who has followed Denver for years and they'll all unanimously agree that Knowshon Moreno has never looked anywhere as good as he does so far this season. If you combined the six most impressive games of Moreno's career, he still probably wouldn't look as good as he has through 6 games this season. If I knew Knowshon Moreno was this guy, I would have been a hell of a lot more complimentary to Knowshon Moreno, too.
The free market's not a consideration if Denver exercises the club option, although I'm unclear on the exact details of the club option. Some sources say it's a $5 million option, which is more than Moreno is worth. Sportrac, on the other hand, has Moreno with just a $2 million cap hit in his club option year. That's less than the Broncos are paying him now, and would probably be a worthwhile investment.The Dude said:
He may not have looked quite this good but you and the others have always had something against Moreno ... Probably because you are Denver fans and were disappointed that he was not a more dynamic flashy pick (McCoy?). Very similar situation with Bills fans when Lynch was in Buf.Adam Harstad said:
Knowshawn looked very good last year before getting injured and if you go back and looked at his rookie and 2nd seasons you will realize they were quite good)
Rookie - Almost 1200 total yards and 9 tds ... just 9 starts
Soph - Numbers over 13 games project to over 1400 total yds 10 tds
Tau837
Footballguy
I haven't always had something against Moreno. I traded up to the #1 pick to get him in my rookie draft. I strongly defended anyone who picked him in redraft prior to his rookie year. I got into a long, 12+ page argument about whether he wound up being a good pick after the season (I was on the pro-Moreno side). I was naturally predisposed to like Moreno, both because he played for my favorite team (and I therefore really, really wanted him to be good), and because a lot of smart people who I really respected liked Moreno (most notably, Chris Wesseling). I don't have a bias towards flashy backs- in fact, I've spent a lot of time defending Mike Anderson, who was decidedly unflashy, but who was brutally, ruthlessly, relentlessly effective. The fact that I thought Moreno was bad coming into this year wasn't because I never liked him or because I wanted him to be bad, it was because, despite my desperately wanting Knowshon Moreno to look good, he never did.
You can't box-score scout with Moreno. He's put up some decent numbers from time to time, usually on the back of a huge volume of touches. The problem was he just wasn't that good. He was extremely slow for an NFL RB, and he didn't compensate for that speed with any open-field moves or power. Slow backs can succeed in the NFL (as a Denver fan, I've seen several of them first-hand), but doing so requires the ability to break tackles and make people miss, two things that Moreno always struggled with. For most of his career, he's been a sluggish, uncreative back who was poor with the ball in his hands and good without the ball in his hands. His numbers have looked decent from time to time, but he play on the field rarely has.
Set aside the numbers entirely, though. This season, Knowshon Moreno looks like a completely different back. If anyone has Game Rewind, go watch the last six games of 2012 and the first six games of 2013 and tell me you don't see a night-and-day difference in the level of Moreno's play. No comparison.
If you still think I'm just a biased homer, let's use a more unbiased source: Pro Football Focus. PFF prides itself on grading a player based on what he does on every play, rather than what his teammates get him or what his box score says. They're not perfect (it's worth noting how every offensive lineman who plays with Peyton Manning magically grades out better than when he doesn't play with Peyton Manning), but they're certainly unbiased.
In his rookie year, PFF graded Moreno at -4.0 overall, -4.5 as a receiver, -0.2 as a rusher, and +1.9 as a blocker. As a sophomore, Moreno was at -4.2 overall, +3.5 as a receiver, -3.1 as a rusher, and -3.2 as a blocker. In his third season, Moreno was at -2.3 overall (in just 7 games), +0.4 as a receiver, -0.8 as a rusher, and -1.9 as a blocker. That's a cumulative grade of -10.5 in his first three seasons. In his last 13 games, however, Moreno grades out at +12.9. He is a completely different player than he was. It's not that Moreno was a good player who suddenly upped his game to great, it's that Moreno was a warm body who suddenly and without warning morphed into an offensive weapon after his team had given him up for dead.
At the $2 million figure, it's a no-brainer. I only say "probably" because the team let McGahee walk over a comparable sum of money after McGahee put in several good years for the franchise, but again, I hear rumblings behind the scene that it's because the team didn't trust his health and didn't want to risk having to pay an injury settlement.
At the $5 million figure, signing Moreno means potentially being unable to sign someone else, and it's much less of a no-brainer. If signing Moreno meant losing out on any one of the 8+ free agents Denver has coming up, I think the team would pass on Moreno.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
purestrength
Footballguy
I'm still so damn mad about Moreno not being in at the goal line when Hillman fumbled that I need to vent.
Sorry to be doing it here.
Sorry to be doing it here.
ahartig
Footballguy
I'm surprised there isn't a little more chatter about this. In 10 to 12 man leagues where Ball has most likley been dropped, I think he should be a great waiver wire pickup. Hillmans fumble last night I think plummets him down the RB ranks. Of all the boneheaded plays, that was bad. He basically lost the game for the broncos.
I'm a Moreno owner and am snagging Ball up immediately. If Moreno goes down, I think Ball gets the reigns
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
As a Moreno owner, I didn't even care about him not being in there to get the touchdown; I cared that they were stupid enough to a) have Hillman in the game, and b) give him the damn ball. Did we just imagine those fumbles in the preseason? That clown can not be trusted to hold on to the ball, and that is with limited freaking touches.
In fairness, Moreno freaking sucked yesterday, too. Moreno had his number called six times on 3rd down. He responded with a 0-yard gain on 3rd-and-1, a 0-yard gain on 3rd-and-1, a 1-yard gain on 3rd-and-2, a 4-yard reception on 3rd-and-6, an incomplete pass, and a 15-yard reception to convert 3rd-and-5... that got called back because Moreno pushed off. Moreno was a hot steaming pile for much of the afternoon, and Hillman had looked really nice on his previous 3 carries.
With that said, Moreno's usage demonstrates he's still the Denver RB to own going forward. Yesterday was pretty much all Moreno, all the time, Hillman's fumble notwithstanding. If Denver didn't trust Ball at all in a tight game against a quality opponent, there's no way they'll trust Anderson in similar circumstances.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Why not? Both guys are rookies and Anderson hasn't sucked yet.
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I was ready to smash my head through a wall if the Broncos ran it on 3rd and short one more time. With those weapons, stop trying to eke out a 1st down with a mediocre running o-line and throw it to one of your four stellar pass catching weapons. Damn it.
Mile High
Footballguy
Rookie 2nd rounders who haven't missed two months to injury typically engender more trust than rookie UDFAs who have.
Edit: Typically teams trust the guys on their active roster more than they trust the guys who are healthy inactives. That's usually why the former are on the active roster and the latter are healthy inactives.
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
But once the 2nd round guy shows he can't be trusted in actual NFL games sometimes things change.
But, again, that 2nd round guy is still making the active roster and the UDFA guy is still not making the active roster. So maybe things change in the future, but in the present, Denver has given us no reason to believe that they would trust Anderson over Ball for anything.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I'm no Ball fan -- at all -- but it's a bit early to be closing the book on him, isn't it?
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
I don't think they're closing the door...but I do think his lack of involvement says they don't trust him right now.
