Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
As Adam said, trusting him less than the other active RBs is a far cry from trusting him less than a rookie UDFA who hasn't even suited up on game day yet.
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Broncos RB. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Hasn't changed much IMO. But then, I was never high on him to begin with, so YMMV. Even with that said its ll's not hugely surprising that the veteran who is a stud blocker is getting the work this year. Even if Denver exercises their option on Moreno next year, I have a hard time seeing them being able to lock him up long term.
Your 1-sided view and hatred towards Moreno is actually getting sickening at this point.
The fact that you are staff and cant even formulate an unbiased opinion doesn't say a whole lot for this site.
Here is what SSOG doesn't want you to know
3rd-and-1 - because Moreno had a 9 yd run on 1st down (Tackled for 0 by Mathis who was killing Denver's line all night and Bethea)
3rd-and-1 - because Moreno had a 9 yd run on 1st down (Tackled for 0 by Mathis who was killing Denver's line all night and Angerer)
2nd-and-3 - because Moreno had a 7 yd run on 1st down ... Got 2 more on 2nd down to make it 3rd-and-1 ... Denver got a 1st
3rd-and-5 from their own 7 - Moreno had a great 15 yard catch but was called for Interference. Replay and announcers confirm it was a questionable call
3rd-and-5 pass incomplete to Moreno (Could be on Moreno or Payton)
3rd-and-6 pass complete to Moreno for 4 yards (Could be on Moreno or Payton)
3rd-and-2 Moreno for 1 yard
1st and Goal from the 1 TD Moreno
He hardly looked like crap. He is a top 5 Fantasy back and I would argue he is a top 10 NFL back.
But the guy you pimpin Hillman ... you could say he's looked like crap.
purestrength
Footballguy
Yeah, Sunday wasn't Moreno's best game of the season, but I thought he was far from a steaming pile.
I have nothing personal against Hillman. He seems like a nice kid and he looks better running the ball than last year. But if Moreno had been in for that play, Denver's chances of winning that game go up considerably.
Not to mention my chances of winning a couple more fantasy head-to-head matchups that I ended up losing by small margins.
Hey, maybe the Denver RBs decided to play Rock, Paper, Scissors again and Hillman won. . . . Sorry, I had to say something to make myself laugh since I've been kicking furniture all day.
purestrength
Footballguy
I'm kinda in the same boat. Indy and Denver are 1A and 1B as my favorite teams, so I would have been cool with either winning Sunday night.
But my FF teams help pay the bills (so to speak) and that's why I'm mad about the Hillman fumble. I have Moreno on more of my teams than any other player because I went against the preseason drafting trends.
OK...I looked at Moreno, Hillman and Ball.
Moreno: 95-413, 8 TDs (1 fumble, not lost)
Hillman: 40-182, 1 TD (2 fumbles, 1 lost)
Ball: 43-139, 0 TDs (2 fumbles, 2 lost)
Hillman also struggled in the pre-season (3 fumbles, 2 lost).
So, why the hell would Fox & Co. turn to Hillman when they were at the 2 yard line, trying to mount a comeback?
The Denver media should be all over this gaffe.
Moreno: 95-413, 8 TDs (1 fumble, not lost)
Hillman: 40-182, 1 TD (2 fumbles, 1 lost)
Ball: 43-139, 0 TDs (2 fumbles, 2 lost)
Hillman also struggled in the pre-season (3 fumbles, 2 lost).
So, why the hell would Fox & Co. turn to Hillman when they were at the 2 yard line, trying to mount a comeback?
The Denver media should be all over this gaffe.
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Knowshon Moreno leads all NFL RBs with 42.9% of his carries inside the 10-yard line going for touchdowns
(minimum seven carries inside the opponent’s 10-yard line)
Spin this SSOG !
(minimum seven carries inside the opponent’s 10-yard line)
Spin this SSOG !
TheFanatic
Footballguy
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
I would think that last Hillman fumble will open the door for Ball to move up. I would imagine they are trying to get him coached up with pass pro and that is one reason Ball hasn't been used as much as I would have thought for a high draft choice. The carries I have seen from Ball lately have been pretty good...he looks talented to me.
What are the odds that Ball has a prominent role in the second half of the season? He is on the waiver wire in most leagues by now. Buy low?
What are the odds that Ball has a prominent role in the second half of the season? He is on the waiver wire in most leagues by now. Buy low?
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Whole lot of dumb and angry up in here.
Moreno has played well this year, and he's having a tremendous year in FF, but he's not remotely close to the "difference maker" tier of NFL RBs. He's pacing for under 1000 rushing, 1400 YFS and 4.3 YPC, in a hugely favorable situation. He has a bunch of TDs but that's a function of usage and the strength of the Broncos' passing game, not Moreno's ability.
Great FF RB this year? Yep. But any warm body starting in Denver would be putting up RB1 numbers this year. Top-10 NFL RB? Not even close.
Moreno has played well this year, and he's having a tremendous year in FF, but he's not remotely close to the "difference maker" tier of NFL RBs. He's pacing for under 1000 rushing, 1400 YFS and 4.3 YPC, in a hugely favorable situation. He has a bunch of TDs but that's a function of usage and the strength of the Broncos' passing game, not Moreno's ability.
Great FF RB this year? Yep. But any warm body starting in Denver would be putting up RB1 numbers this year. Top-10 NFL RB? Not even close.
JFS171
Footballguy
He's 2009 Joseph Addai. Don't bet on that in dynasty, but ride it like hell till he gets hurt or loses the gig. He's going to produce in that situation. Period.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Ball is not startable, but it wouldnt surprise me if this week coming up is his best of the year. I think Denver realizes they need to preserve Moreno somewhat as he will be their lead dog in the playoffs and he may be wearing down from usage. And Washington just won a huge game at home so I could see a bit of a letdown.
And with what Hillman did maybe Ball gets his carries this weekend.
Its just a thought, and I realize I am spinning for Ball.
And with what Hillman did maybe Ball gets his carries this weekend.
Its just a thought, and I realize I am spinning for Ball.
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Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Agree 100% -- and IMO it's blatantly obvious. Yet there is a sizable contingent of "BAM haters he's a top-10 NFL RB CHOO CHOO" types making noise all over the place.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I cant think of 10 better running, receiving, blocking, short yardage backs.
If you can i'd like to see the list
Pro Football Focus graded Knowshon Moreno as the worst Bronco... on either side of the ball. Are they biased and one-sided, too?
I've written plenty of positive, even glowing reports of Knowshon Moreno this year. I won't bother linking to them all, but anyone who doubts is welcome to run a search. My goal is to be as objective as possible. I love Peyton Manning, but when he's struggled all year on deep passes, I'm going to call him on it. Knowshon Moreno has looked like a completely different back this year, but when he kills multiple drives, I'm going to call him on it. I'm not interested in playing favorites, I'm interested in reporting what actually happened as objectively as possible.
Edit: I also have no idea what you're talking about when you say I'm pimping Hillman. I've never been a fan of Hillman as a player. The FBG staff emails Sigmund every week with thoughts and observations for his weekly upgrade/downgrade column. Here is what I emailed Sigmund after week 2, verbatim: "Downgrade Hillman - he only played 2 snaps all game. He's droppable."
I followed that up by dropping Hillman in all leagues where I owned him, including dynasty.
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There's no need to spin it. I noted pretty much the exact same thing in last week's game recap-
People seem to have some pretty big misconceptions regarding how I feel about Knowshon Moreno.
1. If anyone in Denver's backfield outside of Knowshon Moreno has value over the latter half of the season, it's going to be Ball.
2. Barring injury, I don't see anyone in Denver's backfield outside of Knowshon Moreno having value over the latter half of the season, with the exception of garbage time. Moreno's usage strongly suggests that as long as the game is in question, he's the workhorse.
As someone who has written plenty of positive, even glowing reports of Knowshon Moreno this year ... You tell me.
Cheesedawg
Footballguy
Are you asking me to name 10 backs that rank ahead of Moreno in all four of those categories, or are you asking me to name 10 backs that I'd rather have taking into account all four categories? Because if it's the former... well, Adrian Peterson isn't a better receiver than Knowshon Moreno, but I'd sure as hell rather have him on my team.
If it's the latter, give me Peterson, Charles, McCoy, Martin, Bush, Lynch, Sproles, Gore, Foster, and Forte without blinking. There are more guys I'd consider an upgrade over Moreno, but those 10 should be the least controversial.
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No, Pro Football Focus is not biased and one-sided. At least, not in any way that would cause them to underrated Knowshon Moreno. If anything, the fact that they weight blocking and receiving so heavily should be a point in Moreno's favor.
Then you're saying your positive, even glowing reports of Knowshon Moreno this year are misleading?
I'm not sure what the problem is, here. I said Moreno was terrible against Indy. PFF graded Moreno as the worst Bronco in the game against Indy. I have said positive things about Moreno's play in other weeks. I don't see how any of these statements are are the slightest bit contradictory to or otherwise incompatible with the others.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
It's the middle of the season brother. You're much better off going with wild hyperbole. Try this:
"ZOMG Moreno is THE BEST RB IN THE NFL. BEAST!!!!?!??1; suck on that haterzzzzz z. Ball and Hillman suxors111!!!!!&$@...
Moreno or Jamaal Charles this week? TIA will answer yours."
You'll ruffle less feathers that way.
Mike Klis of the Denver Post reports Ronnie Hillman will not dress for Week 8 against Washington.
Hillman has fumbled in back-to-back games, and his costly loose ball near the goal line in Week 7 against the Colts killed any chances the Broncos had of a comeback win. (The Broncos should have given the football to Knowshon Moreno, and it is truly inexplicable why they didn't. Rock paper scissors?) Hillman can be dropped in 10- and 12-team fantasy leagues. C.J. Anderson will replace him on the game-day roster as Denver's No. 3 back behind Moreno and Montee Ball. Ball is worth a stash in the event of a Moreno injury.
Hillman has fumbled in back-to-back games, and his costly loose ball near the goal line in Week 7 against the Colts killed any chances the Broncos had of a comeback win. (The Broncos should have given the football to Knowshon Moreno, and it is truly inexplicable why they didn't. Rock paper scissors?) Hillman can be dropped in 10- and 12-team fantasy leagues. C.J. Anderson will replace him on the game-day roster as Denver's No. 3 back behind Moreno and Montee Ball. Ball is worth a stash in the event of a Moreno injury.
socrates
Footballguy
Hillman has given the team no reason to have faith in him to carry the ball, and every reason for the team to make him inactive.
That being said, if Denver is looking for a scapegoat for losing last Sunday, they need to look up and down their roster and to their coaching staff. That was a team effort loss.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
well I didnt see that coming, announcing a player is benched on Friday? wow
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Hmmmmmmmmm.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
I'll never be a Hillman backer, but seems extreme to deactivate him from the COP role when Ball's fumbled twice earlier in the season.
He's just got the extra gear the other 3 backs don't & well suited as a COP back.
Coaching staff should be looking at themselves for not sending Moreno out there at the goalline.
He's just got the extra gear the other 3 backs don't & well suited as a COP back.
Coaching staff should be looking at themselves for not sending Moreno out there at the goalline.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I been in love with Knowshon and he certainly didnt look good vs Indy for whatever reason. Wonder if hes knicked up or the injuries on the OL finally caught up to the bronco running game
JFS171
Footballguy
Mike KlisVerified account @MikeKlis 41m
Confirming RB C.J. Anderson will dress Sunday. Ronnie Hillman will not.
Not impressed by ball... let's see what you got kid.
Differences is Ball touched the football something like 980 times in college with just 5 fumbles (2 lost). I think it's more than just the coaching staff looking at one fumble from Hillman vs. the two fumbles from Ball, I think it's them evaluating both backs' entire body of work.
Me either. One bad game does not a trend make.
I'm hearing Kuper might not go on Sunday, which would mean Vasquez kicks back inside to RG and Winston Justice would start at RT. As unexcited as I am at the prospect of seeing Winston Justice at tackle, I think this has to be considered unequivocally good for Denver's running game. I have no idea what happened to Kuper since the beginning of last season, but he's looked like garbage since.
Buffaloes
Footballguy
Kuper has not looked the same at all since that ankle injury a couple years back. The running game has taken a huge leap back with the injury to Franklin. The running game had a lot of success behind Vasquez and Franklin on the right side, highlighted by Moreno's performance against NYG when he was ripping off yards behind Vasquez/Franklin. I have no idea what Justice will look like, but I agree that Kupe just hasn't been the same since his ankle injuries--which is too bad. The running game has struggled and I think it has more to do with a banged up line than Moreno wearing out. Moreno's a RB who doesn't make a lot on his own, but can take advantage of goo blocking and make some plays with a head of steam. Right now the OL play is performing at a lower level than earlier in the year due to some injury issues, and (as far as the Indy game went) perhaps some schematic issues with regard to the responsibilities of the OL.
CoachJankySpanky
Footballguy
I will say I have been very impressed with Knowshon this year. He looks like a totally different player than years past. He's playing like he has a chip on his shoulder, running angry and with an intensity that other teammates feed off of. I think like alot of high-profile rookies, he was a little complacent his first few years with the mindset he had arrived. It looks as if something just really clicked for him this year and he has a renewed passion for the game. I do worry about how long he can keep that intensity up though since that type of aggressiveness can wear a back down or lead to injury. He is really sacrificing his body out there for his team's success.
purestrength
Footballguy
Moreno is a beast.
