Browns need to make the tough call (1 Viewer)

[CalBear]

I recall a similar headline from 2003:

"Bengals need to make the tough call, and trade Carson Palmer"

And if you're keeping track, the Bengals are 2-6 and Kitna is playing just as well as Palmer, and on a 6-2 team.

Please list the NFL teams that would take Kitna over Palmer if given the straight choice. TIA.

That's a false analogy. Which NFL teams would take Kitna plus the trade value of Carson Palmer instead of Palmer alone, which is what the Bengals wound up with? Many of them, I'd expect. In any case, it's certainly not clear that the Bengals made the right choice.

 

[redman]

I recall a similar headline from 2003:

"Bengals need to make the tough call, and trade Carson Palmer"

And if you're keeping track, the Bengals are 2-6 and Kitna is playing just as well as Palmer, and on a 6-2 team.

Please list the NFL teams that would take Kitna over Palmer if given the straight choice. TIA.

That's a false analogy. Which NFL teams would take Kitna plus the trade value of Carson Palmer instead of Palmer alone, which is what the Bengals wound up with? Many of them, I'd expect. In any case, it's certainly not clear that the Bengals made the right choice.

What I was addressing was the rather obvious implied comparison you were making in the bolded sentence above. I still don't buy that Kitna + Palmer's trade value > Palmer. The effects of the salary cap and FA mean that the best players simply don't bring good return in trades; ironically, it's the mediocre ones that tend to bring the best value. Kitna is another incarnation of Chris Chandler and Kerry Collins. In the right situation, he can put up numbers and his team can win. Nobody with any brains in their head confuses that with being a franchise caliber QB or an all pro. As for what the Bengals ended up with, you can count on one hand the teams in the NFL that would absolutely take their starter over Palmer IMHO: NE; Indy; Pittsburgh.

There are a few more teams that might arguably keep their starter over Palmer: Dallas; Philadelphia; Giants; St. Louis; maybe Tennessee, New Orleans and San Diego.

Using redraft logic, GB would stay with Favre, but in the real NFL the number of years left in Palmer makes him more valuable than Favre. But that's it.

 

[cstu]

I just had a weird flashback to the Drew Brees vs Philip Rivers scenerio.

And they wisely waited a while to make a decision. It might or might not have been the right one...but there's no harm in having potential on the bench for a while. The Vikings did it with Culpepper, too.

But let's not forget that the Chargers recieved NOTHING for Brees. They let him walk because he was injured. If he'd been healthy, he might still be in SD and Rivers might still be on the Bench.The Browns can't afford to carry both guys on the Roster and risk losing Anderson for Nothing in 2009. They don't have the Defense that the Chargers had when they had the Luxury of carrying both.

LB Anthony Waters.

 

[mad sweeney]

I just had a weird flashback to the Drew Brees vs Philip Rivers scenerio.

And they wisely waited a while to make a decision. It might or might not have been the right one...but there's no harm in having potential on the bench for a while. The Vikings did it with Culpepper, too.

But let's not forget that the Chargers recieved NOTHING for Brees. They let him walk because he was injured. If he'd been healthy, he might still be in SD and Rivers might still be on the Bench.The Browns can't afford to carry both guys on the Roster and risk losing Anderson for Nothing in 2009. They don't have the Defense that the Chargers had when they had the Luxury of carrying both.

LB Anthony Waters.

? Brees was a UFA signed by NO. Where does Waters fit in?

 

[428143]

Trades of early round draft picks normally involve a hefty salary cap hit for the initial team, making these trades very unlikely. CLE would have to take an accelerated cap hit to move Quinn, so I doubt it would happen even if they wanted to trade him.

Quinn will not be moved, of this I am sure...

 

[David Yudkin]

I just had a weird flashback to the Drew Brees vs Philip Rivers scenerio.

And they wisely waited a while to make a decision. It might or might not have been the right one...but there's no harm in having potential on the bench for a while. The Vikings did it with Culpepper, too.

But let's not forget that the Chargers recieved NOTHING for Brees. They let him walk because he was injured. If he'd been healthy, he might still be in SD and Rivers might still be on the Bench.The Browns can't afford to carry both guys on the Roster and risk losing Anderson for Nothing in 2009. They don't have the Defense that the Chargers had when they had the Luxury of carrying both.

LB Anthony Waters.

? Brees was a UFA signed by NO. Where does Waters fit in?

I'm assuming that he was taken will the compensatory draft pick the Chargers got for losing Brees.

 

[[scooter]]

I just had a weird flashback to the Drew Brees vs Philip Rivers scenerio.

And they wisely waited a while to make a decision. It might or might not have been the right one...but there's no harm in having potential on the bench for a while. The Vikings did it with Culpepper, too.

But let's not forget that the Chargers recieved NOTHING for Brees. They let him walk because he was injured. If he'd been healthy, he might still be in SD and Rivers might still be on the Bench.The Browns can't afford to carry both guys on the Roster and risk losing Anderson for Nothing in 2009. They don't have the Defense that the Chargers had when they had the Luxury of carrying both.

LB Anthony Waters.

? Brees was a UFA signed by NO. Where does Waters fit in?

I'm assuming that he was taken will the compensatory draft pick the Chargers got for losing Brees.

confirmed

 

[Football Jones]

Quinn will get his chance...sooner or later. If nothing else, their D will see to that. The first time they lose back-to-back games, there'll be intense pressure to see what a more "heady" QB (& one with just as many natural tools) can do in that offense. It'll happen. No disrespect to Anderson, but unless they move one or the other, Anderson will eventually get benched.

Whether he stays there is another question...

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Ridiculous. All it's going to take is a two game losing streak to have people clamoring for Quinn. You want to see an example of a team that should have kept their decent backup QB, look no further than Atlanta. Plus, Cleveland will have to pay the hypothetical pick that they trade Quinn for even more money, and they lose their depth at QB. What if Anderson twists his ankle next week? This is not a well thought out argument at all.

I agree. Their is not a good reason to trade away either QB. Brady Quinn is the real deal. Last year Derek Anderson landed on the IR after this third start. The Browns line has improved and protects Anderson and he's blown up. So an unexpected windfall has blessed the Browns. This blessing doesn't mean the Browns need to trade away Quinn. The only way a trade would be considered was if the Browns got a weighty offer to make it worth their while. Other teams needing a starting QB doesn't mean the Browns have to trade away one of their QBs. One thing from the story that I agree with is that none of the QBs available in the upcoming draft appear better NFL prospects than Brady Quinn. Their may be a JaMarcus Russell who rises up but I am not impressed with any of the QBs who are mentioned as top picks in next year's draft at this time. I was sold on Quinn last year and his performance in camp and preseason only solidified my belief Quinn is the real deal. I would love to see him starting for the Browns but I'm even more happy that Anderson has blown up. Someone posted the impact of the loss of Brady Quinn on Norte Dame in terms of the production from the QB position of the Fighting Irish.

First year, Quinn played in 11 games 2003 Notre Dame (5-7) Quinn QB rating - 54.7

Second year Quinn played in 12 games and improved his game.

2004 Notre Dame (6-5) Quinn QB rating - 81.9

Wies took over and went to BSC bowl games in 05/06 and Quinn blew up. Many attributed Quinn's improved passing skills to Wies.

2005 Notre Dame (9-3) Quinn QB rating - 109.7

2006 Notre Dame (10-3) Quinn QB rating - 104.4

This year without Quinn ND is sixth from the bottom in the nation in passing offense.

This summer Quinn played exceptionally well in preseason action and not all of his success came againts third/fourth squad scrubs. He threw a beautiful TD over Dre Bly in his only series against the Broncos first unit defense. The the struggles of the ND passing attack after Quinn left have many re-evaluating what Brady Quinn brought to that passing attack. Charlie Weis went out on a thin limb in stating that Quinn would turn into one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL in three years and stood firm by those words both before and after the NFL draft. He was sold on him and after seeing him during the preseason and what he brings to the table, I am also sold on him. The QBs who will be in next year's draft are not better prospects which boosts Quinn's stock and the QB troubles of many NFL teams in conjuction with what appears to be a thin QB crop at this time bumps his value up higher. But that still doesn't mean the Browns have to trade away either Anderson or Quinn.

But lets assume they are like a Kid in a candy shop with a silver dollar buring a hole in their pocket as many teams needing a QB assume.

The Browns gave up high second round pick and what is shaping up to be a mid round pick in next year's draft. They have also paid out over $8.5 million in a signing bonus plus a base salary this year. Their is NO WAY they trade away Quinn for LESS than what they have paid out for Quinn.

And their is NO WAY that they trade away Derek Anderson considering the way he's been playing if they don't have to and they don't have to. Also the contract of Quinn is laced with START incentives. He won't hit ANY of the start incentives to trigger huge bonus payments for his rookie year unless Anderson goes down. Next year, he has a shot to earn his start incentives but again, if Anderson keeps playing the way he has been then Brady Quinn won't hit his start incentives and the Browns will easily be able to carry both QBs at the price of one. Also it should be pointed out that the Browns have the second highest available salary cap of all NFL teams. If push comes to shove they can match any offer DA gets and keep both even if Quinn hits hits his start bonus'.

So I agree with many that the Browns don't need to trade away either Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn but I will go further to say they wouldn't even consider trading away Quinn for LESS than what they paid out. It will take a lot to pry away either QB and the Browns have the cap to carry them both for years. Absolutely no need to trade unless they get a tempting offer to make it worth their while. That is a possbility but the article makes the false notion that the Browns have to make a deal. No they don't.

 

[[scooter]]

Last year Derek Anderson landed on the IR after this third start.

It was the final week of the season, so he probably wouldn't have been IR'd if the injury had occurred in Week 3.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Last year Derek Anderson landed on the IR after this third start.

It was the final week of the season, so he probably wouldn't have been IR'd if the injury had occurred in Week 3.

True but Frye went into the 06 season as the Browns starting QB and it was hoped that the addition of Kellen Winslow and Braylon Edwards would be enough of a supporting cast boost to help develop him into a legtitimate franchise QB. DA was so far off radar that he wasn't even a consideration to start at that point in the season let alone be on the field where he could get hurt. But you are right, IF he were in there starting and was hurt that early in the season he more than likely wouldn't have been IRed but late in the season he would have probably missed the last game or two so by IRing him the Browns freed up a roster spot so they could take a stab at a free agent. They got DA from the Ravens practice squad so Savage likes to take shots like that. But you are correct.