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Buffet's Billion Dollar Bracket....can we do it? (1 Viewer)

jon_mx

Footballguy
This year Buffet says he will make it easier to win, but has not released details….yet. When these rules are defined, the strategy will be adjusted further. But let’s get a starting point to discuss a possible stategery to tackle this billion dollar challenge. Even to an FBGer, a billion is not exactly chump change.

Odds assuming 63 games are even matchups: 1 in 2^63, or 9.2x10^18 possible combinations. We need to reduce that.

So it is CRAZY you say, and you are right. A perfect bracket has never been done. But what if we really wanted that billion dollars, how could we attempt to do it? This means we are going to have to make the best assumptions we can to reduce the number of combinations. Let’s start making some assumptions and see where how close we can get.

1. All #1, #2, #3, and #4 seeds will win the first round. (100%, 95%, 86%, 79%, respective winning percentage)

Lowers the number of combinations down to 2^47….1.4x10^14. The problem has been reduced by four orders of magnitude! A start. All 16 top 4 seeds have won in 4 out of 28 tournaments (14% chance of success). Could be we need to assume a 3rd and/or 4th seed fails, may revisit that assumption later to improve odds.

2. All #1 seeds will win round 2. (57% chance)

Lowers combinations to 2^43……8.8x10^12 combinations.

3. Kentucky wins it all….(about 50% chance by Vegas odds)

Further lowers number of combinations to 2^39…..5.5x10^11 combinations

At this point our odds of winning are about down to about 4% going with those assumptions. Sounds bad, except we have lowered the number of combinations by a factor of over 16 million! Only about half-way to the promise land, but it will get tougher from here.

4. At least 3 #2 seeds and at least 3 #3 seeds advance and at least 3 #4 seeds get past round 2.

This reduces the number of combinations for those games from 4096 down to just 125. Now 1.68x10^10 combinations.

5. At least 2 of the 5th and 2 of the 6th seeds will advance past 1st round…..

I am just starting thinking about this and throwing out ideas. Definitely a work in progress, and my calculation in 4 is not quite right, but it is late and my mind is shot for the day. The only real chance we have is if there are fewer upsets than normal. In round 1, the range of upsets varies from 3 to 13 with the average of 8 upsets out of 32 games. We can probably only allow about 5 upsets or the combinations will get out of hand.

Another stat to keep in mind is 76% of final four teams are #3 seeds or better, so will need to narrow it down to those.

Most of these assumptions are empirical data, but we may have to look at special circumstances and try to further lower the combinations. For instance, the Kentucky pick makes sense since they are a more dominant than typical team. Maybe Wisconsin or Duke is strong enough to assume in the final four.

Dates to keep in mind:

Tournament Selection Date: Sunday, March 15, 2015, 6:00 PM EST

Real First Round (Playins don’t count): Thursday, March 19, 2015, Noon?

So we have Sunday Night, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday to participate. The one entry per person rule of the past really kills the opportunity to improve the odds down to something winnable. If one of the changes that Buffet wants to make is to increase the number of entries per person, that would be huge. Keep in mind besides the $1 billion to prize, which is probably still a lottery pick, there are 20 $100,000 prizes.

 
Odds assuming 63 games are even matchups: 1 in 2^63, or 9.2x10^18 possible combinations. We need to reduce that.
We have 2,282 pages of 20 members a page. Doing the math there, each of us only has to fill out ~ 13,162 bracket permutations. Get those alias accounts crackin!

Seriously though, I've thought about this before. If we could find a bracket website that doesn't require a captcha to be completed to register, if someone could write a program to just create every single permutation of the bracket, there it is. Assuming of course, the exploitable website doesn't have a specific limit in the rules on number of brackets submitted.

I can't be the first person to think of this, though. I feel like if there's an exploitable website out there, there has to be a way to game this.

 
I like our collective odds.
If only we could get all million FBGers to enter. :shrug:
Our odds would still be a blip on the radar.
Using statistics and knowledge, you could probably get the odds on the order of 1 in 100 million. A million entries based on that and you could have a real shot at it. But Buffet does not allow for anyway to get a million entries, so there is that.
pretty sure he insures this contest. I also think your math might not be right. Also, the odds are way worse than 100MM-1
 
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Odds assuming 63 games are even matchups: 1 in 2^63, or 9.2x10^18 possible combinations. We need to reduce that.
We have 2,282 pages of 20 members a page. Doing the math there, each of us only has to fill out ~ 13,162 bracket permutations. Get those alias accounts crackin!

Seriously though, I've thought about this before. If we could find a bracket website that doesn't require a captcha to be completed to register, if someone could write a program to just create every single permutation of the bracket, there it is. Assuming of course, the exploitable website doesn't have a specific limit in the rules on number of brackets submitted.

I can't be the first person to think of this, though. I feel like if there's an exploitable website out there, there has to be a way to game this.
You can't just do it randomly. You have to work from a basis of sound assumptions to reduce the permutations required to an amount which might be manageable. There is not enough bandwidth to input 9.2 x 10^18 entries. Need to get it down in the millions.

 
I like our collective odds.
If only we could get all million FBGers to enter. :shrug:
Our odds would still be a blip on the radar.
Using statistics and knowledge, you could probably get the odds on the order of 1 in 100 million. A million entries based on that and you could have a real shot at it. But Buffet does not allow for anyway to get a million entries, so there is that.
pretty sure he insures this contest. I also think your math might not be right. Also, the odds are way worse than 100MM-1
Selecting randomly produces astronomical odds. But knowing things that a 16 seed will not beat 1 seed, can greatly reduce it. I have seen estimates of getting the odds down to below 200 million to 1.

 
If youre lucky you can get the odds down to still worse than Powerball.
But if entries are free and you can get multipe people to put in multipe entries, then you have a chance. If you notice when the Powerball gets big, someone wins. It just takes enough people trying.

 
This is so stupid!!! It's impossible, nobody will ever win... Might as well be FC42's Billion Dollar Bracket.
A autistic kid got the first two rounds right a few years ago on ESPN contest. That is 48 games right with just 15 games left.
There will never be a winner in this competition.
Some day, somebody will win...out of sheer dumb luck. I'm not thinking it'll be soon, but regardless of the odds, at some point, somebody stumbles onto it.

I agree though...Buffet isn't a gambler. He's a business guy. When he makes these bets, he usually has a pretty good sense that he's going to win...and he usually does. I'm sure he's looked at the oddshere and realized that the odds of paying out are paltry.

 
First thing we need is about 100 volunteers to input as many entries as is allowed. Last year only one per person, I am thinking that increases this year.

 
This is so stupid!!! It's impossible, nobody will ever win... Might as well be FC42's Billion Dollar Bracket.
A autistic kid got the first two rounds right a few years ago on ESPN contest. That is 48 games right with just 15 games left.
There will never be a winner in this competition.
Some day, somebody will win...out of sheer dumb luck. I'm not thinking it'll be soon, but regardless of the odds, at some point, somebody stumbles onto it.

I agree though...Buffet isn't a gambler. He's a business guy. When he makes these bets, he usually has a pretty good sense that he's going to win...and he usually does. I'm sure he's looked at the oddshere and realized that the odds of paying out are paltry.
No, no they won't.

 
I think if you started the bracket with the 2nd round (32 teams) that no one could still do it

 
Pretty dumb thing to waste time trying to game. It isn't going to happen.
It's free.

You could win a billion. (.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance is still a chance)

You're going to fill out a bracket anyway.

 
What's the closest that anyone has come?
Last year one guy got at least the 1st round right.

Pretty dumb thing to waste time trying to game. It isn't going to happen.
It's free.

You could win a billion. (.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance is still a chance)

You're going to fill out a bracket anyway.
...and you sure as hell are not going to win #### compared to what the top 20 brackets win in this contest. People seem to forget that

A. It is Free.

B. the top 20 make $100K - However, the Quicken Loans Billion Dollar Bracket is still offering $100,000 each to the top twenty performing brackets

Basically only a moron doesn't enter something that is free and could net you $100K.

 
Your bracket tip of the year:

Kansas will not make it past the 2nd round. And has a really good chance of being upset in the 15-2 game.

 
This is so stupid!!! It's impossible, nobody will ever win... Might as well be FC42's Billion Dollar Bracket.
A autistic kid got the first two rounds right a few years ago on ESPN contest. That is 48 games right with just 15 games left.
There will never be a winner in this competition.
Some day, somebody will win...out of sheer dumb luck. I'm not thinking it'll be soon, but regardless of the odds, at some point, somebody stumbles onto it.

I agree though...Buffet isn't a gambler. He's a business guy. When he makes these bets, he usually has a pretty good sense that he's going to win...and he usually does. I'm sure he's looked at the oddshere and realized that the odds of paying out are paltry.
No, no they won't.
Mathematically speaking, the odds are 1 in 9,223,372,036,854,775,808. They start to go down significantly if you apply some skill to it (i.e. #1 seeds always winning the 1st round, etc) If they do these things long enough, and enough people enter, somebody will win someday. The definition of some day may be in 2158, but mathematically, some day, SOMEONE would get this if it kept going forever.

 
Fat Nick said:
.

Some day, somebody will win...out of sheer dumb luck. I'm not thinking it'll be soon, but regardless of the odds, at some point, somebody stumbles onto it.

I agree though...Buffet isn't a gambler. He's a business guy. When he makes these bets, he usually has a pretty good sense that he's going to win...and he usually does. I'm sure he's looked at the oddshere and realized that the odds of paying out are paltry.
No, no they won't.
Mathematically speaking, the odds are 1 in 9,223,372,036,854,775,808. They start to go down significantly if you apply some skill to it (i.e. #1 seeds always winning the 1st round, etc) If they do these things long enough, and enough people enter, somebody will win someday. The definition of some day may be in 2158, but mathematically, some day, SOMEONE would get this if it kept going forever.
Still no. That isn't how odds work. Odds of any size still aren't a guarantee of anything. Unless you can find a way for every possible combination to be entered in a coordinated way to ensure accuracy of course, then those odds would come into play.

 
FUBAR said:
Your bracket tip of the year:

Kansas will not make it past the 2nd round. And has a really good chance of being upset in the 15-2 game.
I used to like you.
:lol:

And I'm a Kansas fan. That team is just too Jekyl and Hyde for me this year. Usually Self gets them to finally come together at the end of the year, and this year they just haven't. Been excruciating to watch some of their games this year.

 
Fat Nick said:
This is so stupid!!! It's impossible, nobody will ever win... Might as well be FC42's Billion Dollar Bracket.
A autistic kid got the first two rounds right a few years ago on ESPN contest. That is 48 games right with just 15 games left.
There will never be a winner in this competition.
Some day, somebody will win...out of sheer dumb luck. I'm not thinking it'll be soon, but regardless of the odds, at some point, somebody stumbles onto it.

I agree though...Buffet isn't a gambler. He's a business guy. When he makes these bets, he usually has a pretty good sense that he's going to win...and he usually does. I'm sure he's looked at the oddshere and realized that the odds of paying out are paltry.
No, no they won't.
Mathematically speaking, the odds are 1 in 9,223,372,036,854,775,808. They start to go down significantly if you apply some skill to it (i.e. #1 seeds always winning the 1st round, etc) If they do these things long enough, and enough people enter, somebody will win someday. The definition of some day may be in 2158, but mathematically, some day, SOMEONE would get this if it kept going forever.
 
You guys do get that the odds of winning powerball is 1 in 175,223,510, and they don't have 175 million tickets sold every time they play, right? And that's COMPLETELY arbitrary. At least with the bracket, there is some element of skill involved (i.e. the winner of a game isn't completely random)

At some point, given many tries over a large enough timespan, someone wins, regardless of the odds. That's my point.

Still no. That isn't how odds work. Odds of any size still aren't a guarantee of anything. Unless you can find a way for every possible combination to be entered in a coordinated way to ensure accuracy of course, then those odds would come into play.
I agree - That's my point. Even with odds that big, if you go against the odds many many many times, at some point, somebody will beat those odds out of sheer luck.

 
Sure, but if you guess UK wins (and they do), and that the other 3 #1 seeds win the first round, now your odds are a more manageable 1 in approximately 18,014,398,509,482,000

This year, the #2 seeds all look a head above the field - so lets pencil them in for wins in the first round.

Now are odds are down to 1 in 1,125,899,906,842,620

And if you can find 10 more "guarantees" in the first round: 1 in 1,099,511,627,776 - you're practically stealing Buffet's money.

 
Sure, but if you guess UK wins (and they do), and that the other 3 #1 seeds win the first round, now your odds are a more manageable 1 in approximately 18,014,398,509,482,000

This year, the #2 seeds all look a head above the field - so lets pencil them in for wins in the first round.

Now are odds are down to 1 in 1,125,899,906,842,620

And if you can find 10 more "guarantees" in the first round: 1 in 1,099,511,627,776 - you're practically stealing Buffet's money.
:lol:

So if you get lucky using skill, you can get your odds down to a little over one in a trillion... The contest is limited to only 15MM entrants.

 
If there's a year that someone could hit a perfect bracket, this is it. It's looking like there will be fewer upsets this year than in previous years.

 
If there's a year that someone could hit a perfect bracket, this is it. It's looking like there will be fewer upsets this year than in previous years.
That is the only real hope is that there are few upsets. You have to look at the distribution of upsets in each round, and pick the lower end of the distribution and try to enter as many possible combinations as possible.

 

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