Building things without a permit... (1 Viewer)

[Fat Nick]

So I have a flat honest question. Please don't turn it into a lecture about why permits are important. I want to expand my deck. I don't want to pull permits. Not because I don't want to build it up to code. I fully understand the code. I have studied the code thoroughly and have spec'ed my drawings to code. I fully understand how to build a deck. This is my own house. I will likely OVER-build it if anything, and it will be better than code. I don't want to pull permits because I have very little free time to work on this project, and nobody locally to help me with the build. I am hoping to basically have my father come up (lives in another state, over 4 hours away) and help me over the course of 1 week. I will take a week off work and just power through it. With permits, I would have a lot of down-time waiting for footing inspection, etc. I just want to start on a random Saturday, demo, and build the new deck in a week.

It's a decent sized deck...24x19 replacing a 19x14. Same general footprint as the old one, just further out on all sides. I don't plan on moving any time in the near future as the house is plenty big for our growing family.

I was hoping to get some experiences from anyone who has done noticeable renovations without a permit. My fear is that when it comes time for tax appraisals (every ~10 years in this area, due soon), they will look at the outdoor space, notice a larger, new deck, and see that no permits were pulled. Then what? If it's a $500 fine, then honestly, I'd chance it. If they got nasty and made me tear it down, I'd be pretty pissed. Will they even notice or care?

Anybody have any insight?

 

[pricklypete]

Depends on the city.

I've done a ton of stuff without pulling permits and never had any backlash.

If it's not changing the structural aspect of the house I wouldn't worry about it.

Then again, I'm a rebel.

 

[lumpy19]

I think you're fine. From my own experience we completely finished our basement and since then have refi'd our house twice. One time the appraiser from the bank came thru, didn't even mention the finished basement and appraised the house exactly what we paid for it in 2008(new build)

We added a concrete patio(no permits required) and it never effected our appraisal.

We added a cover over our patio and did pull permits for that. Honestly the permit process was pretty easy, town engineer came out and inspected the footers and the rest was on us. I was shocked how little they cared. No drawings needed, nothing for snow load, just make sure the footers are deep enough. This wasn't a small cover, we were covering our entire 20x28 patio.

I think the problems won't show up until you try to sell the house.

 

[tangfoot]

Pulling permits is for suckers.

 

[Jobber]

Pulling permits is for suckers.

The main purpose of permits is for the city to adjust your home's value so they can tax you more.

 

[top dog]

I'm in the camp of ... let them catch me.

I don't even know what you NEED permits for and what you don't. I've ran electric underground for an outdoor pond area (betting I should have gotten permits for that), dug a small 6 ft x 6ft Koi Pond... Added and removed walls from within the house... I moved our shed from one side of the yard to the other using a Bobcat...

Once again, I have no idea if I needed permits for any of that other than the electric run...

 

[avoiding injuries]

I've done lots of projects without pulling permits. Never a problem. :knocksonwood:

Last year I finished my basement and added a full bathroom and wet bar. I paid contractors in cash for a reduced price and they didn't pull anything. I also didn't want the county to assess my property value higher and raise my property taxes.

 

[Fat Nick]

Seems like I'm getting pretty unanimous feedback here...Thanks guys. Feeling a bit better about just working through my project without permits. I guess if I ever got caught, I could argue that I was just repairing an existing deck or something. Any drawings would show a deck...just one smaller than the one I'm building.

 

[ChiefD]

A lot will depend on your neighbors and the rules of your HOA if they apply in your situation.

If you get along great with your neighbors and they aren't the type to turn you in, then you should be fine. If you have a really active HOA that sends a letter every time you don't put your trash cans in, I probably get a permit.

If you are thinking about the time factor for an inspector being your main detriment, pull your permit on a Friday. Schedule your footing inspection for Monday morning. That first weekend will take you most of the weekend tearing out the new deck and pouring your new footings. If he approves you Monday morning, you can easily finish the building of the deck the rest of the week and the following weekend.

 

[Franknbeans]

the only time I've needed to pull a permit is when the neighbor across the street ratted me out. But then again, he's a dooshbag

 

[Fat Nick]

Also, FWIW - interior stuff is a lot harder to spot IMO...they need to come IN your house. Exterior stuff would be far more visible. That was my main concern. Interior stuff is totally no-permit for me for average stuff. I moved a bunch of electrical boxes and just re-did our powder room (rerouted some copper pipe, moved lights, new fan, etc) a few weekends ago without permits. I'd never dream of pulling permits for stuff like that.

 

[top dog]

Just play dumb..

Auditor: "I see you have a new deck?"

FN: "Huh? You don't say..."

Auditor: "Can I see the permits for this job?"

FN: "What job? We've always had a deck."

Auditor: "This is a recent construction."

FN: "Is it?"

Auditor: "Surely it is! This doesn't match what we have on records for this property!"

FN: "I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe the neighbors did something when we were gone last summer. And don't call me Shirley!"

 

[tangfoot]

No permits pulled for:

Adding a bathroom to the master bedroom of one house

Adding a bathroom to the basement of another house

Completely finishing the basement, including a kitchen

Installing a 16x16x30 play structure in the back yard (pre-built, we had to get a crane to lift that ####er off a flatbed truck and place it in the yard, blocking all street traffic for at least an hour)

Aluminum wiring remediation (not even sure if this would have been required)

 

[RUSF18]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

 

[Fat Nick]

A lot will depend on your neighbors and the rules of your HOA if they apply in your situation.

If you get along great with your neighbors and they aren't the type to turn you in, then you should be fine. If you have a really active HOA that sends a letter every time you don't put your trash cans in, I probably get a permit.

If you are thinking about the time factor for an inspector being your main detriment, pull your permit on a Friday. Schedule your footing inspection for Monday morning. That first weekend will take you most of the weekend tearing out the new deck and pouring your new footings. If he approves you Monday morning, you can easily finish the building of the deck the rest of the week and the following weekend.

No HOA - I refused to buy a house in an area with an HOA. I have little tolerance for people telling me what I can and can't do with the house I bought. We live in a pretty rural area. First house on an 11-house cul de sac. I've got 2.5 acres surrounded by 15' White Pines. All lots are that big or bigger. Neighbors are totally cool. All of them. We have giant neighborhood parties every few months. Neighbor directly behind me is honestly one of the guys who would probably HELP me build it if I really needed the help.

Good thought re. timing of permits. I'll consider that, but given the feedback here, I'm leaning towards just doing it.

 

[Franknbeans]

Also, FWIW - interior stuff is a lot harder to spot IMO...they need to come IN your house. Exterior stuff would be far more visible. That was my main concern. Interior stuff is totally no-permit for me for average stuff. I moved a bunch of electrical boxes and just re-did our powder room (rerouted some copper pipe, moved lights, new fan, etc) a few weekends ago without permits. I'd never dream of pulling permits for stuff like that.

I got reported for a roof that was done in a day and an interior room where all we were doing was taking out an old door and a window and replacing them with a new window. Again, dooshbag.

 

[avoiding injuries]

the only time I've needed to pull a permit is when the neighbor across the street ratted me out. But then again, he's a dooshbag

I was just going to mention this. If a neighbor calls the county, they will come out and inspect.

 

[Fat Nick]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

Most of the issues I've heard about seem to be along these lines. I'm in NJ too. I wonder how they ultimately worked through that? It was just the building inspector, right? Not even the township or anything, right? I feel like if you get the wrong building inspector, they can be a #### about anything.

 

[mr roboto]

Yeah it all depends on how seriously the local city takes this stuff. I think you could get away with building it without getting caught but I've heard horror stories about when people go to sell, refinance etc. But those stories tend to be in highly regulated areas (East Coast, Chicago). I would ask a realtor if they've seen issues with unpermitted work keeping a sale from happening.

 

[Fat Nick]

Also, FWIW - interior stuff is a lot harder to spot IMO...they need to come IN your house. Exterior stuff would be far more visible. That was my main concern. Interior stuff is totally no-permit for me for average stuff. I moved a bunch of electrical boxes and just re-did our powder room (rerouted some copper pipe, moved lights, new fan, etc) a few weekends ago without permits. I'd never dream of pulling permits for stuff like that.

I got reported for a roof that was done in a day and an interior room where all we were doing was taking out an old door and a window and replacing them with a new window. Again, dooshbag.

Dang man. What a doosh. I'm so glad I don't have neighbors like that. I'm very vengeful. If someone ever did that to me, I'd make their life a living ####.

Stories like this are exactly why I refused any house with an HOA.

 

[RUSF18]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

Most of the issues I've heard about seem to be along these lines. I'm in NJ too. I wonder how they ultimately worked through that? It was just the building inspector, right? Not even the township or anything, right? I feel like if you get the wrong building inspector, they can be a #### about anything.

I'll email him and let you know.

 

[(HULK)]

I put a fence 1/2 way in without a permit. Someone in the neighborhood ratted me out though, and the county made me stop and get a permit. If I ever find out which neighbor it was, I will seek vengeance.

 

[NutterButter]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

That's the home inspector of the seller or someone associated with the town? If the former, worst case, you need to find another buyer right?

 

[ChiefD]

A lot will depend on your neighbors and the rules of your HOA if they apply in your situation.

If you get along great with your neighbors and they aren't the type to turn you in, then you should be fine. If you have a really active HOA that sends a letter every time you don't put your trash cans in, I probably get a permit.

If you are thinking about the time factor for an inspector being your main detriment, pull your permit on a Friday. Schedule your footing inspection for Monday morning. That first weekend will take you most of the weekend tearing out the new deck and pouring your new footings. If he approves you Monday morning, you can easily finish the building of the deck the rest of the week and the following weekend.

No HOA - I refused to buy a house in an area with an HOA. I have little tolerance for people telling me what I can and can't do with the house I bought. We live in a pretty rural area. First house on an 11-house cul de sac. I've got 2.5 acres surrounded by 15' White Pines. All lots are that big or bigger. Neighbors are totally cool. All of them. We have giant neighborhood parties every few months. Neighbor directly behind me is honestly one of the guys who would probably HELP me build it if I really needed the help.

Good thought re. timing of permits. I'll consider that, but given the feedback here, I'm leaning towards just doing it.

In this case, it's a no-brainer. No permit.

 

[Gawain]

No permits pulled for:

Adding a bathroom to the master bedroom of one house

Adding a bathroom to the basement of another house

Completely finishing the basement, including a kitchen

Installing a 16x16x30 play structure in the back yard (pre-built, we had to get a crane to lift that ####er off a flatbed truck and place it in the yard, blocking all street traffic for at least an hour)

Aluminum wiring remediation (not even sure if this would have been required)

I would rat you out so ### #### fast if you blocked street traffic with no notice.

I may be overly sensitive because I live on a dead-end, but it's amazing to me the number of people that think it's their god given right to block streets to have something done to their house. There are probably 50 houses between mine and the entry point to the street and there have been at least five that have blocked traffic for multiple hours. Three of them posted notice, two did not and now the other two are pariahs.

Do what you want on your property, but if you're keeping your neighbors from getting places, shame on you.

 

[comfortably numb]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

Most of the issues I've heard about seem to be along these lines. I'm in NJ too. I wonder how they ultimately worked through that? It was just the building inspector, right? Not even the township or anything, right? I feel like if you get the wrong building inspector, they can be a #### about anything.

Poke around with your neighbors to ask what kind of inspectors your town has. Are they the kind of town that makes it a point to drive around notice new things and send out notices?

You are in Flem area I believe?

Do you have a neighbor who will call and report you?

My town is very laxed.

I finished my basement with no permit, had a shed dropped (not in legal area of my yard) with no permit.

It sticks out and been almost expecting to get a fine from my town but nothing as of 3 years.

When I have pulled permits

(needed for a kitchen expansion and variance for my fence)

The town inspectors have been laxed, basically show up and sign off within 2 seconds.

Although the 1st guy I dealt with on my fence when I moved in was a typical dbag.

"You can't put a fence there ONLY here"

Do I have any other options?

"No, only here"

Can I apply for a variance?

"No, you won't get it blah blah"

I applied got it....even went further where I was supposed to go on my new allowed line and no one even came to look at it afterwards.

 

[RUSF18]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

That's the home inspector of the seller or someone associated with the town? If the former, worst case, you need to find another buyer right?

I'm not a homeowner so don't know the mechanics...I know the inspector is engaged by the buyer but unsure if he's "associated with the town" or not. Either way, yeah you can get another buyer but the issue is that another buyer's inspector will likely turn up the same issue. I know my friend had the seller make some concessions on other issues his inspector found. The seller originally took a hard stance against it, but then realized (likely with the help of his realtor) that another buyer would have the same complaints so it's better not to throw away one potential sale over things like that.

 

[comfortably numb]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

That's the home inspector of the seller or someone associated with the town? If the former, worst case, you need to find another buyer right?

Only is you find a cash buyer.

Had a deal last year where there was no permit for the deck on file. Mortgage would not be accepted without. Seller went to municipality and was easily able to get a permit.

 

[comfortably numb]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

That's the home inspector of the seller or someone associated with the town? If the former, worst case, you need to find another buyer right?

I'm not a homeowner so don't know the mechanics...I know the inspector is engaged by the buyer but unsure if he's "associated with the town" or not. Either way, yeah you can get another buyer but the issue is that another buyer's inspector will likely turn up the same issue. I know my friend had the seller make some concessions on other issues his inspector found. The seller originally took a hard stance against it, but then realized (likely with the help of his realtor) that another buyer would have the same complaints so it's better not to throw away one potential sale over things like that.

In NJ the home inspector brought in by the buyer will note if something appears to be done without a permit, but that is it.

Where you run into a problem is a CO (Certificate of Occupancy) has to be applied for from each town.

The town sends their inspectors to make sure house is liveable, permits are in tact and smoke detectors are in.

Without the towns CO you can't move in.

 

[jon_mx]

Seems like I'm getting pretty unanimous feedback here...Thanks guys. Feeling a bit better about just working through my project without permits. I guess if I ever got caught, I could argue that I was just repairing an existing deck or something. Any drawings would show a deck...just one smaller than the one I'm building.

The biggest problem is if you have stuff like plumbing or electrical hidden in the walls. Some locations like NY will have people remove such work if it was done without a permit. In Indiana a company sued and won that if they did all the work themselves, it was unconstitutional to require a permit. But that is only Indiana specific.

 

[mr roboto]

I just bought a home in Minnesota in the basement was done without a permit. I had to sign a waiver saying that I understood that there was no permit on file. But I inspected the work myself and saw that they clearly had professional contractors come in to do the job.

This whole issue is really frustrating because the people that don't need to get permits are usually the ones that understand the value in getting them and the people that should be inspected because they suck at doing their job are the ones that never want permits. Not specifically talking about the OP here in either circumstance.

I may be wrong but I would imagine that if you had an issue down the line they would easily be able to come out and inspect a deck and see that it was done correctly. So worst case you don't get a permit, you go to sell the home and and issue was raised regarding the deck being there without a permit. You call the municipality, have them come to inspect and it's very easy to see the structure and framing of attack but it would be much harder if you didn't pull a permit for something like finishing a basement or remodeling a kitchen or putting in addition on a home.

 

[John Bender]

Try to avoid pulling when possible.

Some zoning authorities are great about it and realize, you help pay their salary with your tax money in many situations. Some, forget this fact, and do nothing but bust your balls endlessly over minor paperwork issues, or have you change your plans just to justify their existence. It's more of the latter imo.

Just built without it so you don't run into King ##### Building Inspector guy.

 

[Jack White]

I'm shocked at all the people here advocating breaking the law.

Do you think permits are in effect to create make-work jobs and revenue?

Of course not.

They're in effect for the good of society.

Be a good citizen and get your permits.

 

[John Bender]

Here's yet another great topical Carolla rant on this very subject

Worth the listen - NSFW language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-ZdY9BLbgQ

 

[comfortably numb]

I'm shocked at all the people here advocating breaking the law.

Do you think permits are in effect to create make-work jobs and revenue?

Of course not.

They're in effect for the good of society.

Be a good citizen and get your permits.

The reality is you are right. They are in place to protect yourself and your neighbors.

The other reality is people hate the fact that every effing thing costs money.

From the application to raised tax assessment

That process just makes people feel like it's a money grab and they try to work around it as much as possible

 

[top dog]

I'm shocked at all the people here advocating breaking the law.

Do you think permits are in effect to create make-work jobs and revenue?

Of course not.

They're in effect for the good of society.

Be a good citizen and get your permits.

My house, my rules.. If you don't like it.. Move out!

 

[tangfoot]

No permits pulled for:

Adding a bathroom to the master bedroom of one house

Adding a bathroom to the basement of another house

Completely finishing the basement, including a kitchen

Installing a 16x16x30 play structure in the back yard (pre-built, we had to get a crane to lift that ####er off a flatbed truck and place it in the yard, blocking all street traffic for at least an hour)

Aluminum wiring remediation (not even sure if this would have been required)

I would rat you out so ### #### fast if you blocked street traffic with no notice.

I may be overly sensitive because I live on a dead-end, but it's amazing to me the number of people that think it's their god given right to block streets to have something done to their house. There are probably 50 houses between mine and the entry point to the street and there have been at least five that have blocked traffic for multiple hours. Three of them posted notice, two did not and now the other two are pariahs.

Do what you want on your property, but if you're keeping your neighbors from getting places, shame on you.

Yeah, that one was quite weird. I'm actually not sure a "permit" was required, but we probably should have talked to the city first.

My wife arranged the whole thing, and it was in the middle of a weekday. That house was on a corner lot, so there were lots of ways that traffic could still get around by turning onto the adjacent street.

But still, I hear you. I came home from work that day and saw the pics she took and was all WTF?

 

[MCguidance]

We redid the floors (pulled carpet and laid the wood), and demo'd the kitchen. Like an idiot, I left the garbage bags in the front of the house too long and we got the big sticker on the window to, "stop all work" yadda yadda yadda. The quartz countertops were going in the next day so I let them put them in...only to have the town inspector come and scream at us. No fine, but we had to pull permits for the remainder of the electrical and plumbing. Very annoying and cost us a few hundred.

My suggestion is that if you are on a main street, pull the permits. If you are on a back road, chance it and get your garbage out of sight.

 

[El Floppo]

Seems like I'm getting pretty unanimous feedback here...Thanks guys. Feeling a bit better about just working through my project without permits. I guess if I ever got caught, I could argue that I was just repairing an existing deck or something. Any drawings would show a deck...just one smaller than the one I'm building.

are you sure you even need permits for this?

IMO&E, as long as you're within your side & backyard setbacks, you should be fine.

also- I highly doubt somebody comes in later with *AHA!* this deck is a few feet wider and longer than the last filed drawings show- arrest this man!

 

[Fat Nick]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

Most of the issues I've heard about seem to be along these lines. I'm in NJ too. I wonder how they ultimately worked through that? It was just the building inspector, right? Not even the township or anything, right? I feel like if you get the wrong building inspector, they can be a #### about anything.

Poke around with your neighbors to ask what kind of inspectors your town has. Are they the kind of town that makes it a point to drive around notice new things and send out notices?

You are in Flem area I believe?

Do you have a neighbor who will call and report you?

My town is very laxed.

I finished my basement with no permit, had a shed dropped (not in legal area of my yard) with no permit.

It sticks out and been almost expecting to get a fine from my town but nothing as of 3 years.

When I have pulled permits

(needed for a kitchen expansion and variance for my fence)

The town inspectors have been laxed, basically show up and sign off within 2 seconds.

Although the 1st guy I dealt with on my fence when I moved in was a typical dbag.

"You can't put a fence there ONLY here"

Do I have any other options?

"No, only here"

Can I apply for a variance?

"No, you won't get it blah blah"

I applied got it....even went further where I was supposed to go on my new allowed line and no one even came to look at it afterwards.

I can actually ask the guy who lives at the end of the street. He built a HUGE deck addition...major structure with a roof, etc. He'd know how nasty they are...he also has like 4 sheds back in the woods he built with no permit, so he should know both sides. I do live in Flemington...I've heard mixed stories. A neighbor down the road (not our street) got a HUGE warehouse approved somehow. People were pretty ###### about that, but it's still there.

As noted, ZERO chance a neighbor rats me out. Zero. I'd bet my life on it. Neighbors are all cool.

When we bought the house, the survey noted that our shed (existing when we bought) actually was a few feet over an easement line for a state-maintained drainage area. Nobody seemed to care too much.

 

[comfortably numb]

Seems like I'm getting pretty unanimous feedback here...Thanks guys. Feeling a bit better about just working through my project without permits. I guess if I ever got caught, I could argue that I was just repairing an existing deck or something. Any drawings would show a deck...just one smaller than the one I'm building.

are you sure you even need permits for this?

IMO&E, as long as you're within your side & backyard setbacks, you should be fine.

also- I highly doubt somebody comes in later with *AHA!* this deck is a few feet wider and longer than the last filed drawings show- arrest this man!

I would say he would need to pull if he is adding new footings

I think in NJ the only thing you don't need a permit for is painting a room <_<

 

[Fat Nick]

We redid the floors (pulled carpet and laid the wood), and demo'd the kitchen. Like an idiot, I left the garbage bags in the front of the house too long and we got the big sticker on the window to, "stop all work" yadda yadda yadda. The quartz countertops were going in the next day so I let them put them in...only to have the town inspector come and scream at us. No fine, but we had to pull permits for the remainder of the electrical and plumbing. Very annoying and cost us a few hundred.

My suggestion is that if you are on a main street, pull the permits. If you are on a back road, chance it and get your garbage out of sight.

See...I'm OK with this as a possible "punishment." Yell at me all you want. Fine me a reasonable amount. It's still going to save me a ton over having someone else do it.

Good call re. the garbage. I'm hoping to get one of those Bagster things for the old deck demo and just put it in the driveway out of sight.

 

[Quez]

Your primary worry will be suspicious neighbors who can find out if a permit has been pulled. I would recommend doing all work at night. Do all of the power sawing inside. Place mattresses on walls for sound muffling, think ghetto recording studio.

The nailing is going to be the really hard part. Wait until there is a stormy night, and every time it thunders you can shoot the nail gun.

 

[Fat Nick]

Seems like I'm getting pretty unanimous feedback here...Thanks guys. Feeling a bit better about just working through my project without permits. I guess if I ever got caught, I could argue that I was just repairing an existing deck or something. Any drawings would show a deck...just one smaller than the one I'm building.

are you sure you even need permits for this?

IMO&E, as long as you're within your side & backyard setbacks, you should be fine.

also- I highly doubt somebody comes in later with *AHA!* this deck is a few feet wider and longer than the last filed drawings show- arrest this man!

I would say he would need to pull if he is adding new footings

I think in NJ the only thing you don't need a permit for is painting a room <_<

This. By the book, I would've needed a permit to re-do my powder room, which took me 2 days because I moved the location of a light box and extended some copper pipe a foot higher. NJ code is rediculous.

I really wanted to consider using Diamond Piers (Pin Piers) for the footings because we have A TON of rock...I don't even think they're allowed in NJ, despite being approved in a lot of places, and ideal for our crappy clay/rock soil. I think helical piers are allowed, but they're $$$. I'm going to have to rent a skid steer to dig those footing holes. I'd die if I tried to dig them by hand.

 

[comfortably numb]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

Most of the issues I've heard about seem to be along these lines. I'm in NJ too. I wonder how they ultimately worked through that? It was just the building inspector, right? Not even the township or anything, right? I feel like if you get the wrong building inspector, they can be a #### about anything.

Poke around with your neighbors to ask what kind of inspectors your town has. Are they the kind of town that makes it a point to drive around notice new things and send out notices?

You are in Flem area I believe?

Do you have a neighbor who will call and report you?

My town is very laxed.

I finished my basement with no permit, had a shed dropped (not in legal area of my yard) with no permit.

It sticks out and been almost expecting to get a fine from my town but nothing as of 3 years.

When I have pulled permits

(needed for a kitchen expansion and variance for my fence)

The town inspectors have been laxed, basically show up and sign off within 2 seconds.

Although the 1st guy I dealt with on my fence when I moved in was a typical dbag.

"You can't put a fence there ONLY here"

Do I have any other options?

"No, only here"

Can I apply for a variance?

"No, you won't get it blah blah"

I applied got it....even went further where I was supposed to go on my new allowed line and no one even came to look at it afterwards.

I can actually ask the guy who lives at the end of the street. He built a HUGE deck addition...major structure with a roof, etc. He'd know how nasty they are...he also has like 4 sheds back in the woods he built with no permit, so he should know both sides. I do live in Flemington...I've heard mixed stories. A neighbor down the road (not our street) got a HUGE warehouse approved somehow. People were pretty ###### about that, but it's still there.

As noted, ZERO chance a neighbor rats me out. Zero. I'd bet my life on it. Neighbors are all cool.

When we bought the house, the survey noted that our shed (existing when we bought) actually was a few feet over an easement line for a state-maintained drainage area. Nobody seemed to care too much.

I think you are fine. I would do it.

My experience is inspectors are mainly hard when it comes to electrical issues or if just generally have a hard on.

 

[El Floppo]

that's nuts.

might be different, but when I started out in CA, you could build a full addition without permits as long as it was under a certain sq ftage. a deck? fuhgeddabowdit.

any thought to telling your neighbors that you'll be rebuilding/replacing your deck- just so they don't see a bunch of building materials show up unannounced and rat you out? I still don't see anybody even noticing a deck a few feet longer than shown on older plans... or even in real life. again- as long as it doesn't impinge on setbacks or have a vertical component that is visible to your neighbors.

 

[lumpy19]

I just bought a home in Minnesota in the basement was done without a permit. I had to sign a waiver saying that I understood that there was no permit on file. But I inspected the work myself and saw that they clearly had professional contractors come in to do the job.

This whole issue is really frustrating because the people that don't need to get permits are usually the ones that understand the value in getting them and the people that should be inspected because they suck at doing their job are the ones that never want permits. Not specifically talking about the OP here in either circumstance.

I may be wrong but I would imagine that if you had an issue down the line they would easily be able to come out and inspect a deck and see that it was done correctly. So worst case you don't get a permit, you go to sell the home and and issue was raised regarding the deck being there without a permit. You call the municipality, have them come to inspect and it's very easy to see the structure and framing of attack but it would be much harder if you didn't pull a permit for something like finishing a basement or remodeling a kitchen or putting in addition on a home.

You are wrong. To inspect the deck they'd have to dig up the ground and check the depth of the concrete footers and make sure they meet code. Code in my town is 42" so there's a lot of dirt removal and you'd have to check every one.

 

[comfortably numb]

My main concern would be home insurance.

Not sure it works this way but say you add a bathroom in the garage and a fire starts in the bathroom and burns your place down.

Could insurance company be like...sorry you did that work illegally you get no $!!!

?

 

[kentric]

In our prior home we rebuilt the deck from top to bottom without a permit. When I sold it I told the prospective buyer (who ended up buying the house) that the deck was rebuilt without a permit but he was ok with it. The deck was rebuilt in the same surface area though. So a bit different that your issue.

My only gripe with the new deck was that it was 16 foot wide and the guy used 15 foot pieces of wood. I noticed that he was using 15 foot and 1 foot pieces rather than breaking it up in sizes.

 

[NutterButter]

Buddy of mine was buying a house and it turned out the deck was built without a permit, so the home inspector wouldn't sign off on it. Ended up being a big hassle for the seller. I'm not sure exactly what it entailed, but just something to think about. I'm sure this is heavily area-dependent...this was in NJ.

That's the home inspector of the seller or someone associated with the town? If the former, worst case, you need to find another buyer right?

I'm not a homeowner so don't know the mechanics...I know the inspector is engaged by the buyer but unsure if he's "associated with the town" or not. Either way, yeah you can get another buyer but the issue is that another buyer's inspector will likely turn up the same issue. I know my friend had the seller make some concessions on other issues his inspector found. The seller originally took a hard stance against it, but then realized (likely with the help of his realtor) that another buyer would have the same complaints so it's better not to throw away one potential sale over things like that.

In NJ the home inspector brought in by the buyer will note if something appears to be done without a permit, but that is it.

Where you run into a problem is a CO (Certificate of Occupancy) has to be applied for from each town.

The town sends their inspectors to make sure house is liveable, permits are in tact and smoke detectors are in.

Without the towns CO you can't move in.

Yeah, the CO was more of what I was thinking would be the problem. I know my home inspector didn't ask for any permits when we bought the house. I think I'll be in the same boat as Nick when I go to sell my house and the town inspector sees that a lot of the work I've done doesn't have permits. Oh well. I guess I'll just stay here until I die.