Buy before the hit Opportunity @ low cost - Chris Ivory (1 Viewer)

[thehobbit]

Betts is the back to own for this week, and until Thomas comes back from injury.

Help me understand this. I would think Ivory is the guy to bet on since the Saints chose to keep Ivory over Betts at roster cut down, and Ivory was given basically even carries (12 vs 13) last week... in a dogfight game. Ivory ended up with better production (5.6 YPC vs. 3.6 YPC). I don't know why they wouldn't run Ivory a lot in a game they should be leading throughout. What sort of committment has this team shown Betts? They kept an undrafted rookie FA over him. Unless Ivory fumbles the job away I'd think they use every opportunity to play him.

This is just it. Ivory has shown a propensity to fumble, and Betts never fumbles. Further, Betts is a much better pass blocker than Ivory. Ivory is certainly the more dynamic runner, but you said it yourself: the Saints should be able to win this game comfortably. The only thing that could lose it for them is turnovers and/or bad special teams play. A boring runner like Betts is preferable to a more dynamic guy with a history of putting the ball on the ground.If you read some comments by players and coaches after last weeks game, you'll see that they raved about Betts' pass protection and overall professionalism. He got nearly twice the snaps that Ivory did last week. I expect the disparity to increase this week, since Betts is a week more familiar with the system.

I think what you meant to say is Betts has yet to fumble in New Orleans.Betts has been career plagued with fumbles. The one season on the Skins he was actually called upon he dropped the rock 6 times(. Betts entire career he has a 2% chance to fumble. Now although noticeably that is way different than Ivory 10% current stat to fumble. Ivory to his defense has a lot less carries to his name at this point.

 

[Joe Summer]

It's too bad that Pro-Football-Reference.com doesn't allow you to search for fumbles. I would be interested in seeing a list of all players who lost 2 fumbles in their first 2 NFL games.

 

[gianmarco]

Those saying that Ivory can't pass block, what are you basing this on? I follow the Saints pretty closely, and even then I couldn't tell you much about it. Especially since he hasn't been asked to much in his limited time on the field. So unless you have extensive "tape" on the guy or are just assuming because he's a rookie, then it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

I'm not saying he's either good or bad, I'm simply saying I'd be willing to bet most of you couldn't even pick out five examples of his blocking.

 

[gradin123]

Those saying that Ivory can't pass block, what are you basing this on? I follow the Saints pretty closely, and even then I couldn't tell you much about it. Especially since he hasn't been asked to much in his limited time on the field. So unless you have extensive "tape" on the guy or are just assuming because he's a rookie, then it's hard to take anything you say seriously.I'm not saying he's either good or bad, I'm simply saying I'd be willing to bet most of you couldn't even pick out five examples of his blocking.

I think the fact they don't put him on the field in pass situations is a pretty good indicator he doesn't pass block well.Considering the Saints are a pass heavy team that really limits his value. I read somewhere that Betts was the running back in the game for about 75% of the Saints snaps last week. When Ivory was in there they usually ran though.

 

[Steelfan7]

Those saying that Ivory can't pass block, what are you basing this on? I follow the Saints pretty closely, and even then I couldn't tell you much about it. Especially since he hasn't been asked to much in his limited time on the field. So unless you have extensive "tape" on the guy or are just assuming because he's a rookie, then it's hard to take anything you say seriously.I'm not saying he's either good or bad, I'm simply saying I'd be willing to bet most of you couldn't even pick out five examples of his blocking.

I think the fact they don't put him on the field in pass situations is a pretty good indicator he doesn't pass block well.Considering the Saints are a pass heavy team that really limits his value. I read somewhere that Betts was the running back in the game for about 75% of the Saints snaps last week. When Ivory was in there they usually ran though.

It was Ivory's first game back from his injury so maybe they wanted to limit him a bit. This week will be a better indicator. I'm going with the former Dragon.

 

[gianmarco]

Those saying that Ivory can't pass block, what are you basing this on? I follow the Saints pretty closely, and even then I couldn't tell you much about it. Especially since he hasn't been asked to much in his limited time on the field. So unless you have extensive "tape" on the guy or are just assuming because he's a rookie, then it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

I'm not saying he's either good or bad, I'm simply saying I'd be willing to bet most of you couldn't even pick out five examples of his blocking.

I think the fact they don't put him on the field in pass situations is a pretty good indicator he doesn't pass block well.

Considering the Saints are a pass heavy team that really limits his value. I read somewhere that Betts was the running back in the game for about 75% of the Saints snaps last week. When Ivory was in there they usually ran though.

The guy has 19 CAREER carries and was only playing in his 2nd career NFL game. Again, before we start saying he can't do it, let's either see an actual trend develop (where the coaching staff doesn't put him in on passing downs in more than just 1 game of splitting a workload) or watching him actually fail.

 

[myhousekey]

Looking at the box score from last week, you would think Ivory (12 touches) and Betts (17 touches) were pretty even. However, Betts played for 58 of the snaps and Ivory only had 16 snaps. A huge difference. Some of that stemmed from Ivory going into doghouse after his 2nd quarter fumble but thats quite a difference in plays regardless.

 

[Tyrion]

Betts is the back to own for this week, and until Thomas comes back from injury.

Help me understand this. I would think Ivory is the guy to bet on since the Saints chose to keep Ivory over Betts at roster cut down, and Ivory was given basically even carries (12 vs 13) last week... in a dogfight game. Ivory ended up with better production (5.6 YPC vs. 3.6 YPC). I don't know why they wouldn't run Ivory a lot in a game they should be leading throughout. What sort of committment has this team shown Betts? They kept an undrafted rookie FA over him. Unless Ivory fumbles the job away I'd think they use every opportunity to play him.

This is just it. Ivory has shown a propensity to fumble, and Betts never fumbles. Further, Betts is a much better pass blocker than Ivory. Ivory is certainly the more dynamic runner, but you said it yourself: the Saints should be able to win this game comfortably. The only thing that could lose it for them is turnovers and/or bad special teams play. A boring runner like Betts is preferable to a more dynamic guy with a history of putting the ball on the ground.If you read some comments by players and coaches after last weeks game, you'll see that they raved about Betts' pass protection and overall professionalism. He got nearly twice the snaps that Ivory did last week. I expect the disparity to increase this week, since Betts is a week more familiar with the system.

Arian Foster showed a propensity to fumble last season. Of course he did get benched in a couple of games.

But when are you going to try a guy like Ivory? When you should win easily or when it will be a close game?

 

[QUEZILLA]

Worse case is he is valueless.

 

[Babu Bhatt2]

The fact that Ivory was kept over Betts in early September has no relevance to who will play more this weekend, IMO.

Would you agree Ivory outproducing Betts 5.6 YPC to 3.6 YPC last week has some relevance?

It has relevance, yes. I said as much in my second post in this thread. But the bigger thing for the Saints is consistency in terms of pass protection and other assignments. They don't need to run the ball to win games. They run to set up the pass.

 

[ThePittbully]

The fact that Ivory was kept over Betts in early September has no relevance to who will play more this weekend, IMO.

Would you agree Ivory outproducing Betts 5.6 YPC to 3.6 YPC last week has some relevance?

It has relevance, yes. I said as much in my second post in this thread. But the bigger thing for the Saints is consistency in terms of pass protection and other assignments. They don't need to run the ball to win games. They run to set up the pass.

How can they run to set up the pass, but not need to run the ball to win games? Teams have been taking the deep ball away from the Saints in the first four weeks, forcing them to dink and dunk down the field. This causes more chances for drops and turnovers, which the Saints have been having. Now more than ever the Saints need to run the ball to force teams to bring their safeties in, which is why in the last game they went out and made it a point to get the running game going and they did. On top of that, while Payton may not fully trust Ivory in pass protection yet, he has been in on a few passing plays and he has done fine picking up the rush. His role could easily expand if he learns to hang onto the ball and Payton starts to trust him more. I think he's a good start this week as the Saints are likely to get a sizeable lead in this game and they could look to run a lot in the second half of this game. He's raw but he's got power and speed and he's decisive with his cuts. He needs to correct the way he holds the ball and at times he needs to let his blocks progress before he explodes but he's got a ton of potential. The play where he fumbled last week was a thirteen yard gain that could have easily gone for much more.

 

[Joe Summer]

Worse case is he is valueless.

God bless the Shark Pool.

 

[Downontheupside]

The fact that Ivory was kept over Betts in early September has no relevance to who will play more this weekend, IMO.

Would you agree Ivory outproducing Betts 5.6 YPC to 3.6 YPC last week has some relevance?

Betts didn't look bad last week. A couple of those runs were blown up in the backfield to kill his average. Other than that, Betts was effective, especially on a catch and run where he ran someone over on the sideline. In PPR Betts is a lock for 10 points and has a decent chance for a score. Ivory is high risk/high reward. Ivory can break out in the 4th quarter garbage time scenario, but the Saint's haven't blown anyone out this year. Betts proved to the Saints and fantasy owners he's a reliable replacement in that scoring format. Ivory's gonna have to do better than 56 yards and a fumble before you start him over Betts.I wouldn't cement Ivory as the GL back yet either. When the Saints got close, Betts was the first guy in there. He's a capable GL back with experience.

 

[ThePittbully]

The fact that Ivory was kept over Betts in early September has no relevance to who will play more this weekend, IMO.

Would you agree Ivory outproducing Betts 5.6 YPC to 3.6 YPC last week has some relevance?

Betts didn't look bad last week. A couple of those runs were blown up in the backfield to kill his average. Other than that, Betts was effective, especially on a catch and run where he ran someone over on the sideline. In PPR Betts is a lock for 10 points and has a decent chance for a score. Ivory is high risk/high reward. Ivory can break out in the 4th quarter garbage time scenario, but the Saint's haven't blown anyone out this year. Betts proved to the Saints and fantasy owners he's a reliable replacement in that scoring format. Ivory's gonna have to do better than 56 yards and a fumble before you start him over Betts.I wouldn't cement Ivory as the GL back yet either. When the Saints got close, Betts was the first guy in there. He's a capable GL back with experience.

In ppr I feel like Betts is probably the safer play, but Ivory has the higher upside in the matchup and even if he doesn't live up he's still going to get you at least around 60 to 70 yards and chance for a score.

 

[BigJim®]

The fact that Ivory was kept over Betts in early September has no relevance to who will play more this weekend, IMO.

Would you agree Ivory outproducing Betts 5.6 YPC to 3.6 YPC last week has some relevance?

It has relevance, yes. I said as much in my second post in this thread. But the bigger thing for the Saints is consistency in terms of pass protection and other assignments. They don't need to run the ball to win games. They run to set up the pass.

Which hopefully won't matter when they are up 21-3. I picked up Ivory for $1 in one redraft this week, and free in a second. In one, I'm starting him over Barber and BJax based on the matchups and fact the other options will also share carries. I think Ivory is capable of 60/1 vs. Arizona. Could regret it, but the main point of this post is valid. This was the week to pick up Ivory given the nice Ariz matchup and assumption that Pierre will bounce back 100% next week. Ivory is one of the few FAs who can be had for free and might have FF impact if the cards fall his way. IMHO next week will probably be too late to pick him up cheap.

 

[thehobbit]

The fact that Ivory was kept over Betts in early September has no relevance to who will play more this weekend, IMO.

Would you agree Ivory outproducing Betts 5.6 YPC to 3.6 YPC last week has some relevance?

It has relevance, yes. I said as much in my second post in this thread. But the bigger thing for the Saints is consistency in terms of pass protection and other assignments. They don't need to run the ball to win games. They run to set up the pass.

Which hopefully won't matter when they are up 21-3. I picked up Ivory for $1 in one redraft this week, and free in a second. In one, I'm starting him over Barber and BJax based on the matchups and fact the other options will also share carries. I think Ivory is capable of 60/1 vs. Arizona. Could regret it, but the main point of this post is valid. This was the week to pick up Ivory given the nice Ariz matchup and assumption that Pierre will bounce back 100% next week. Ivory is one of the few FAs who can be had for free and might have FF impact if the cards fall his way. IMHO next week will probably be too late to pick him up cheap.

So to some of those that were still against the concept of the OP and on board with Thomas, any updates if you think there is further merit that Ivory at the time had value and continues to increase his? Or thoughts on those that liked Betts still more than Ivory at this point?

 

[nickel&dime]

Three reason Ivory won't be the guy this year that busts out.

1) Laddell Betts now

2) Pierre Thomas soon

3) Reggie Bush a few weeks down the line

No chance.

I agree with this. Looks like a bunch of "experts" do too.http://www.fantasypros.com/2010/10/saints-...etts-and-jones/

 

[Ministry of Pain]

May need to wheel this oldie out of the garage. I'm doing this for RN, I think he'd be proud

How can the Saints cut him? Pierre thomas looked great catching the football. Who didn't look great? :softball:

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Ivory was running with authority tonight. Just smashing guys all over the place.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Ivory was running with authority tonight. Just smashing guys all over the place.

And fumbling too

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Ivory was running with authority tonight. Just smashing guys all over the place.

And fumbling too

I don't remember any fumbles.:rosecoloredglasses:

 

[We Tigers]

Ivory was running with authority tonight. Just smashing the Texans' second team all over the place.

Edited for accuracyJust look at Ivory's game logs for last year if you want the story on him. He's Ingram's backup, and has no other role--if Ingram plays, he doesn't.

 

[treat88]

Ivory was running with authority tonight. Just smashing the Texans' second team all over the place.

Edited for accuracyJust look at Ivory's game logs for last year if you want the story on him. He's Ingram's backup, and has no other role--if Ingram plays, he doesn't.

True.Question is, if hes cut does he get a shot at a better situation? Detroit? Pitt? NYJ?Someone should give him a look. Hes not a rare talent but hes about as violent a runner as I've seen recently...for better and worse.

 

[Beerguzzler]

Sproles is the only RB on NO that I would trust.

 

[Ariakis]

Ivory and Polk may be two of the best "Blount" lottery picks going ... if they get cut they could step into a better situation and be starters later this year. Not gonna happen with either's current teams.

 

[griff321]

I don't know, I just don't see opportunity for Ivory.