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Calvin Johnson Needs To Be Benched This Week (1 Viewer)

K

kyoun1e

Footballguy
Let's assume you have a decent alternative to Megatron this week. Outside of the "he's a stud" reasoning, why on earth do you start him?

Haven't Calvin owners had enough?

Especially understanding the following this week:

* Hill just doesn't throw downfield

* J. Best is banged up which will allow GB D to shrink the field and roll coverage even more.

* Oh...GB's D is all around good.

* Oh...GB is playing at home.

* Oh yeah...GB lost last week so I doubt there will be a "letdown" against the lowly Lions.

* GB's offense should control the game and the clock. Time of posession could be ridiculous limiting Detroit's options.

This is one week where I just don't believe you can start your suposed stud unless you have nowhere else to turn.

For example, I'd rather start H. Nicks this week.

So again, if you're starting him, I'd really like to know why.

KY

 
kyoun1e said:
Let's assume you have a decent alternative to Megatron this week. Outside of the "he's a stud" reasoning, why on earth do you start him?Haven't Calvin owners had enough?Especially understanding the following this week:* Hill just doesn't throw downfield* J. Best is banged up which will allow GB D to shrink the field and roll coverage even more.* Oh...GB's D is all around good.* Oh...GB is playing at home.* Oh yeah...GB lost last week so I doubt there will be a "letdown" against the lowly Lions.* GB's offense should control the game and the clock. Time of posession could be ridiculous limiting Detroit's options.This is one week where I just don't believe you can start your suposed stud unless you have nowhere else to turn.For example, I'd rather start H. Nicks this week.So again, if you're starting him, I'd really like to know why.KY
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I'll agree. But to answer you question, there is another thread on the front page full of CJ supporters. You might get some answers there.
 
As a CJ owner you have to realize we invested a top 2 draft pick on him for the most part. Because of that (and if you grabbed a top 3 TE) you may be limited in your other options. So to me, the question is:

Do I start CJ or Louis Murphy or Mark Clayton?

Hard to bench CJ with those as your next best option.

 
Mighty thick limb your on there, Nicks is only tied for 1st in TD's amongst WR and about top 10 in most leagues.

I would only consider benching CJ if you have too good of an option.

In PPR leagues, I think you have to ride him, he is getting about 10 targets/game, I wouldn't want to be that guy benching him on his 134 yard and 2TD game in favor of Brandon Llyod.

 
I'll play Devil's Advocate.

* It's a division game. Crazy things can happen and it could be a shootout.

* The Packers can't run the ball, so controlling the clock isn't as easy as it sounds.

* If The Packers are in a sour mood and pile on the points, it could be a good garbage-time situation for him. I think he caught most of his passes in garbage time last week.

* Maybe knowing Best can't really pick up the slack means they'll try to find ways of getting him the ball.

I guess it depends on what you have on our bench. He's been a disappointment, but I don't know that I'd bench him for "decent." If I want decent I'll just leave him in there.

 
Because just like Brandon Marshall who started off the season slow, he has the potential to break out and have a monster game. Three average games and people seem to forget that. It's funny you mention Hakeem Nicks, because he is my #2 behind CJ. My other options are Mike Williams of TB who is on BYE and Lance Moore. I like CJs potential and the fact that he's going to have a breakout game sooner or later, and that will probably be the second I took your advice and benched him. That, and the fact that Detroit will be down early without a healthy Best, and be forced to throw the ball down field. No matter the coverage I'm willing to risk starting CJ given his talent, situation, and Hill having to throw alot. There ya go.

 
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In five career games against the Packers, Johnson has totaled 28 catches for 378 yards and six touchdowns

 
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Saint said:
As a CJ owner you have to realize we invested a top 2 draft pick on him for the most part. Because of that (and if you grabbed a top 3 TE) you may be limited in your other options. So to me, the question is:Do I start CJ or Louis Murphy or Mark Clayton?Hard to bench CJ with those as your next best option.
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I'd agree with that.I drafted A. Johnson in RD 1 and then figured I'd take the leap with Calvin in RD 2. My thinking was AJ would help smooth out some of the Calvin bumps.I'm lucky I grabbed Nicks later.I'd be interested to see who others are benching Calvin for. He still ranks top 10 by most this week. Shocking. For whatever reason, I feel like Calvin is constantly ranked about 5 spots to high on a weekly basis.KY
 
tdhartis said:
Because just like Brandon Marshall who started off the season slow, he has the potential to break out and have a monster game.
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Apples to oranges comparison.Miami always plays the NYJ tough at home. They have a solid young QB. Nice compliments in Harline and Bess. A capable TE. And dual threat at RB. Oh...and a decent D.Detroit?Mediocre QB. ZERO complimentary WRs. Capable TEs who get all the looks. And a banged up young stud RB.KY
 
If I drafted Calvin in Round 1 or Round 2, he will be in my lineup every week provided he is healthy

I'm not going to watch him go off on my bench. I always start my studs.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Calvin Johnson is 3rd in the NFL in drops over the last 2 years, and if there were a category for being in perfect position to make a play on a ball and not making it, Calvin would be dominating the NFL in that stat.Calvin had yet ANOTHER chance to score this week and once again couldn't get his feet down. Once again we can all lament about how Calvin almost made that TD catch, like we have EVERY week going all the way back to the start of last year.Calvin gets such a free pass for all this stuff that it's ridiculous. Yes, he plays on a bad team, but he has had PLENTY of opportunities to make plays over the last two years where he has completely failed to through no one's fault but his own. They're not easy plays by any means, but they're plays that a guy who is as talented as people claim he is should make more often than not, and he simply doesn't. Physically, he's comparable to Fitzgerald, AJ, and Moss. As far as pure football skills go though, he's not even on the same planet as those guys. He is not nearly as dominant at going up and getting the ball as his physical measurables dictate he should be, and he is absolutely awful at getting his feet down on the sidelines.
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FreeBaGeL said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Calvin Johnson is 3rd in the NFL in drops over the last 2 years, and if there were a category for being in perfect position to make a play on a ball and not making it, Calvin would be dominating the NFL in that stat.Calvin had yet ANOTHER chance to score this week and once again couldn't get his feet down. Once again we can all lament about how Calvin almost made that TD catch, like we have EVERY week going all the way back to the start of last year.Calvin gets such a free pass for all this stuff that it's ridiculous. Yes, he plays on a bad team, but he has had PLENTY of opportunities to make plays over the last two years where he has completely failed to through no one's fault but his own. They're not easy plays by any means, but they're plays that a guy who is as talented as people claim he is should make more often than not, and he simply doesn't. Physically, he's comparable to Fitzgerald, AJ, and Moss. As far as pure football skills go though, he's not even on the same planet as those guys. He is not nearly as dominant at going up and getting the ball as his physical measurables dictate he should be, and he is absolutely awful at getting his feet down on the sidelines.
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He does get a free pass like no other player I can think of.It's as if owners of Calvin are hypnotized by his raw ability and ignore all other factors.He's arguably the most unwarranted "unbenchable" stud (that may not really be a stud) of all time.KY
 
Calvin's puts up #s during what is called garbage time. May come earlier than other weeks. The faster it comes the better numbers he will put up.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
FreeBaGeL said:
Calvin Johnson is 3rd in the NFL in drops over the last 2 years, and if there were a category for being in perfect position to make a play on a ball and not making it, Calvin would be dominating the NFL in that stat.Calvin had yet ANOTHER chance to score this week and once again couldn't get his feet down. Once again we can all lament about how Calvin almost made that TD catch, like we have EVERY week going all the way back to the start of last year.Calvin gets such a free pass for all this stuff that it's ridiculous. Yes, he plays on a bad team, but he has had PLENTY of opportunities to make plays over the last two years where he has completely failed to through no one's fault but his own. They're not easy plays by any means, but they're plays that a guy who is as talented as people claim he is should make more often than not, and he simply doesn't. Physically, he's comparable to Fitzgerald, AJ, and Moss. As far as pure football skills go though, he's not even on the same planet as those guys. He is not nearly as dominant at going up and getting the ball as his physical measurables dictate he should be, and he is absolutely awful at getting his feet down on the sidelines.
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:goodposting:
 
I would use the line "Never bench your studs" But Calvin is a second tier WR at best right now.

 
The Packers have a bend but don't break defense. They also corner blitz a LOT ... Calvin will get looks.

Also I would like to add that I have a record around here of not really being a Calvin fan ... but he will probably have a better chance this weekend then say your alternatives.

 
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kyoun1e said:
Let's assume you have a decent alternative to Megatron this week. Outside of the "he's a stud" reasoning, why on earth do you start him?Haven't Calvin owners had enough?Especially understanding the following this week:* Hill just doesn't throw downfield* J. Best is banged up which will allow GB D to shrink the field and roll coverage even more.* Oh...GB's D is all around good.* Oh...GB is playing at home.* Oh yeah...GB lost last week so I doubt there will be a "letdown" against the lowly Lions.* GB's offense should control the game and the clock. Time of posession could be ridiculous limiting Detroit's options.This is one week where I just don't believe you can start your suposed stud unless you have nowhere else to turn.For example, I'd rather start H. Nicks this week.So again, if you're starting him, I'd really like to know why.KY
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Its either him or crabtree for me. Yeah, i thought so.....
 
Benched him last week. I may again this week, however he's now the only real option on offense and Detroit should be behind. Johnson historically has done well against GB.

 
dansav said:
In five career games against the Packers, Johnson has totaled 28 catches for 378 yards and six touchdowns
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Yeah, that data didn't work so well last year...when he had 2-10-1.Yipee.So he did most of the above damage over two years ago. May as well have been 10 years ago. Ancient history. Let's talk about what's going on NOW.KY
 
He gets a free pass there because he has sloppy balls thrown at him constantly in my eyes. People tend to forget who throws this guy passes not only at the moment, but in the past as well.

I have no other options on my bench, anyways.

 
kyoun1e said:
Let's assume you have a decent alternative to Megatron this week. Outside of the "he's a stud" reasoning, why on earth do you start him?Haven't Calvin owners had enough?Especially understanding the following this week:* Hill just doesn't throw downfield* J. Best is banged up which will allow GB D to shrink the field and roll coverage even more.* Oh...GB's D is all around good.* Oh...GB is playing at home.* Oh yeah...GB lost last week so I doubt there will be a "letdown" against the lowly Lions.* GB's offense should control the game and the clock. Time of posession could be ridiculous limiting Detroit's options.This is one week where I just don't believe you can start your suposed stud unless you have nowhere else to turn.For example, I'd rather start H. Nicks this week.So again, if you're starting him, I'd really like to know why.KY
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because of this thread?
 
kyoun1e said:
Let's assume you have a decent alternative to Megatron this week. Outside of the "he's a stud" reasoning, why on earth do you start him?Haven't Calvin owners had enough?Especially understanding the following this week:* Hill just doesn't throw downfield* J. Best is banged up which will allow GB D to shrink the field and roll coverage even more.* Oh...GB's D is all around good.* Oh...GB is playing at home.* Oh yeah...GB lost last week so I doubt there will be a "letdown" against the lowly Lions.* GB's offense should control the game and the clock. Time of posession could be ridiculous limiting Detroit's options.This is one week where I just don't believe you can start your suposed stud unless you have nowhere else to turn.For example, I'd rather start H. Nicks this week.So again, if you're starting him, I'd really like to know why.KY
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He is 12th in targets among WRs thus far in 2010.He is his team's only weapon right now."Garbage time production" is not a concern when you play for Detroit IMO.Green Bay is burnable.His floor is acceptable and he has very nice upside.Moreover, Nicks is #7 in scoring among WRs and was ranked as a high WR2 during 2010 drafts, so I believe it is more than a little disingenuous to act as though you're starting a low-quality option over Calvin. If you are starting 3 WRs and Nicks was your 4th WR, more power to you, but that is not the situation for the vast majority of people playing fantasy football. A more appropriate decision would be you choosing between starting Calvin and starting someone like Ward, Washington, Eddie Royal, or Cribbs. Sorry, but I'll go with Calvin over any WR3 option.
 
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kyoun1e said:
Saint said:
As a CJ owner you have to realize we invested a top 2 draft pick on him for the most part. Because of that (and if you grabbed a top 3 TE) you may be limited in your other options. So to me, the question is:Do I start CJ or Louis Murphy or Mark Clayton?Hard to bench CJ with those as your next best option.
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I'd agree with that.I drafted A. Johnson in RD 1 and then figured I'd take the leap with Calvin in RD 2. My thinking was AJ would help smooth out some of the Calvin bumps.I'm lucky I grabbed Nicks later.I'd be interested to see who others are benching Calvin for. He still ranks top 10 by most this week. Shocking. For whatever reason, I feel like Calvin is constantly ranked about 5 spots to high on a weekly basis.KY
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Wow... this sounds exactly like my draft. Took Andre, Calvin, and grabbed Nicks later on ... also ended up with Romo, Best, Finley, Beanie
 
nadroj117 said:
kyoun1e said:
Saint said:
As a CJ owner you have to realize we invested a top 2 draft pick on him for the most part. Because of that (and if you grabbed a top 3 TE) you may be limited in your other options. So to me, the question is:Do I start CJ or Louis Murphy or Mark Clayton?Hard to bench CJ with those as your next best option.
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I'd agree with that.I drafted A. Johnson in RD 1 and then figured I'd take the leap with Calvin in RD 2. My thinking was AJ would help smooth out some of the Calvin bumps.I'm lucky I grabbed Nicks later.I'd be interested to see who others are benching Calvin for. He still ranks top 10 by most this week. Shocking. For whatever reason, I feel like Calvin is constantly ranked about 5 spots to high on a weekly basis.KY
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Wow... this sounds exactly like my draft. Took Andre, Calvin, and grabbed Nicks later on ... also ended up with Romo, Best, Finley, Beanie
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So let's turn the question around, then: "outside of the 'he's a stud reasoning," what are both of your rationales for playing a hobbled AJ against a shadowing Asomugha - who has destroyed AJ in prior meetings, and benching CJ? Between the two, I'd much rather start CJ.
 
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I will start Mark Clayton over him... Clayton outscored him in two of three games and I don't care about the draft pick I used on a player, I only care about how to win the game...

 
Calvin has been a failure for me this season! Luckily, it's only 3 games into the season. If it's 10 games into the season and i see the same type of results, then yes, I may start a WR4 for him (we start 3 WR in my league, so a WR4 is what you would have to start) like Loius Murphy. But now, after just 3 games of mediocre results? It just doesn't make any sense. At least to me. I'm also attempting to buy low on Jamaal Charles, MJD, Beenie, and the like. 3 games is really nothing for proven studs, and yes, Calvin is a proven stud. If you go on a per game basis over the last 2 years, his stats are pretty nice.

 
He is 12th in targets among WRs thus far in 2010.

He is his team's only weapon right now.

"Garbage time production" is not a concern when you play for Detroit IMO.

Green Bay is burnable.

His floor is acceptable and he has very nice upside.

Moreover, Nicks is #7 in scoring among WRs and was ranked as a high WR2 during 2010 drafts, so I believe it is more than a little disingenuous to act as though you're starting a low-quality option over Calvin. If you are starting 3 WRs and Nicks was your 4th WR, more power to you, but that is not the situation for the vast majority of people playing fantasy football. A more appropriate decision would be you choosing between starting Calvin and starting someone like Ward, Washington, Eddie Royal, or Cribbs. Sorry, but I'll go with Calvin over any WR3 option.

Agree with your point on Nicks. I'm lucky to have him as my #3 and for all those who are deciding between Calvin and lesser options, that's where it gets tough. And reason why I'd like to see how low people are going here.

As for your other points:

* Targets -- There should be a stat for "quality target." How many of these throws are catchable? Or where he's triple covered?

* Only Team's Weapon -- This works in favor of my argument. Teams are not going to let Calvin beat them (and he hasn't).

* Garbage Time -- Are you really going to bank your fantasy championship hopes on a "stud" producing in the last 4 minutes of the game instead of the whole game?

* GB is burnable -- Everyone is burnable. GB looked pretty solid to me against a Chicago offense that likes to wing it.

I don't know. Just seems like more excuses for this guy.

KY

 
In fairness he played that game on one leg.

More excuses for this guy.

In another 5 years, when Calvin hasn't every played to his fantasy projections, is everyone still going to be giving this guy a pass?

KY

 
kyoun1e said:
As for your other points:

* Targets -- There should be a stat for "quality target." How many of these throws are catchable? Or where he's triple covered?

* Only Team's Weapon -- This works in favor of my argument. Teams are not going to let Calvin beat them (and he hasn't).

* Garbage Time -- Are you really going to bank your fantasy championship hopes on a "stud" producing in the last 4 minutes of the game instead of the whole game?

* GB is burnable -- Everyone is burnable. GB looked pretty solid to me against a Chicago offense that likes to wing it.

I don't know. Just seems like more excuses for this guy.

KY
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In regards to #2I don't think it works in your favor.

Plenty of WR's produce who are the teams only weapon.

Heck, lets look at Calvin's monster 2008 season on 78/1331/12TD

QB He had Culpepper/Orlovsky throwing to him.

RB was rookie KSmith who ran for 938yds

WR by his side was Shaun McDonald and his 35/332

 
So let's turn the question around, then: "outside of the 'he's a stud reasoning," what are both of your rationales for playing a hobbled AJ against a shadowing Asomugha - who has destroyed AJ in prior meetings, and benching CJ? Between the two, I'd much rather start CJ.

Great question.

If AJ is active and starting, I'm playing him. My reasons:

* Do we know for a fact that Asomugha has lined up with AJ on every snap previously? It's my understanding that he USED TO stay on one side of the field only. Could be other factors at play here.

* Asomugha, while one of the top CBs in the game, has I believe taken a bit of a step down in the last year.

* Fitz went 2-28-1 last week...with Derek Anderson throwing junk.

* Houston embarrased last week by Dallas.

* Oakland has faced three lousy passing attacks in a row.

* I start Schaub so I have a potentially double whammy in play.

All that said, my expectations are not as high as usual with AJ. But if he's healthy, AJ doesn't leave my lineup. Period. He is, for the most part, "matchup proof."

Unlike Calvin, AJ has earned this status. They are not even in the same ballpark in terms of starting/sitting thought process.

KY

 
In regards to #2

I don't think it works in your favor.

Plenty of WR's produce who are the teams only weapon.

Heck, lets look at Calvin's monster 2008 season on 78/1331/12TD

QB He had Culpepper/Orlovsky throwing to him.

RB was rookie KSmith who ran for 938yds

WR by his side was Shaun McDonald and his 35/332

Looking at Calvin's past is not a predictor of future results. Different team. Different supporting cast. I'm making my decisions based on the PRESENT situation.

What is hapenning now?

* Coverage is being rolled his way...big time.

* Detroit QBs, after going through progressions, are dumping it off or throwing to the TEs.

* Because of the above, Calvin is pretty much INVISIBLE for the first three quarters of the game. Then in garbage time, D's loosen up and THEN he gets targeted.

This is the way it is right now. Period. And until this changes, I am loathe to start Calvin. He's just another guy despite his freakish talent.

I'm not sure what it is to be honest. Is it Hill? Or is it the coaching staff that just doesn't have a clue how to get this guy the ball? I lean to the coaching staff.

KY

 
kyoun1e said:
Let's assume you have a decent alternative to Megatron this week. Outside of the "he's a stud" reasoning, why on earth do you start him?Haven't Calvin owners had enough?Especially understanding the following this week:* Hill just doesn't throw downfield* J. Best is banged up which will allow GB D to shrink the field and roll coverage even more.* Oh...GB's D is all around good.* Oh...GB is playing at home.* Oh yeah...GB lost last week so I doubt there will be a "letdown" against the lowly Lions.* GB's offense should control the game and the clock. Time of posession could be ridiculous limiting Detroit's options.This is one week where I just don't believe you can start your suposed stud unless you have nowhere else to turn.For example, I'd rather start H. Nicks this week.So again, if you're starting him, I'd really like to know why.KY
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I agree,not only should us fantasy owners bench calvin but the detroit lions should bench him too. :X
 
In my 12 team ppr I'm benching AJ and CJ, we can play TEs as wr and start 3 and I'm rolling with D Clark, Keller, and Maclin over both..

 
The irony here for me is I may need to play Calvin due to injuries with AJ and P. Thomas.

I will either come back to this board laughing (due to reverse jinx) or crying (due to another crap performance).

I also can play 2 TEs. It is not out of the realm of possibility that I start both C. Cooley and A. Hernandez...and Calvin sits.

KY

 
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