Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Calvin Johnson to retire - CONFIRMED (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Deamon
- Start date
Ian Rapoport
✔@RapSheet
Goal for #Lions coaches & staff: Find a way to bring Calvin Johnson back. It wouldn't be at his current salary, but with Fitz-like extension
4:12 PM - 1 Feb 2016
✔@RapSheet
Goal for #Lions coaches & staff: Find a way to bring Calvin Johnson back. It wouldn't be at his current salary, but with Fitz-like extension
4:12 PM - 1 Feb 2016
lod01
Footballguy
They all know they are fired at the end of the season if there is no Calvin. They have an easy schedule and they can fool ownership again like in 2014 with a smoke & mirrors W-L record but they need Calvin for that.
Jed
Footballguy
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
What makes you think that? He grew up in a good middle class home and his parents stressed education. He put his sister through a PhD program. He seems to be one of the more together guys in the NFL.
I'd bet on him being just fine financially through the rest of his life.
swabs
Footballguy
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
trader jake
Footballguy
I hope this happens. Too bad the Lions didn't go find their own Bruce Arians type coach and stuck with no-pulse Caldwell.
Last edited by a moderator:
grateful zed
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
The goal is to get him to come back--at a reduced salary. Best of luck.
I still am harboring doubt that Calvin is serious. One could come up with a few reasons why Calvin would be threatening retirement, and not ACTUALLY retiring.
Maybe he is hoping the Lions cut bait sooner rather than later, allowing him to make his own deal in free agency. Maybe he is using it as leverage to head off the Lions pay cut talk, or trade talk. The Lions will want to use the cap room as soon as possible, and if Calvin keeps saying he plans to retire, he leaves them stuck in limbo. If he retires, they retain his rights, and get to use the cap space. If he says he PLANS to retire, the salary stays on the cap. He can take his time, and force the Lions to cut him.
Also, according to overthecap.com, he would potentially have to pay 4.9 million in pro-rated signing bonus if he retired. That's in addition to walking away from 16 mill.
Yes, I would say I doubt his sincerity quite a bit.
higgins
Footballguy
According to reports I've read, he told 2 teammates before the season that he was going to retire, and to the coach immediately after the season. And this was after the Lions went to the playoffs in 2014 -- seems fairly consistent to me that he is sincere... especially when you consider all the injuries he's had over the years.
I wish you were right -- I'll be losing him in 2 dynasties.
ChuckLiddell
Footballguy
Good time to try to get him on the super-cheap? I believe that he is done, but isnt it worth a 3rd round dynasty pick just in case he isnt? Not sure how many owners would do that, but if you could find one.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
And he hasn't filed the retirement paperwork because... ?
Since he decided to retire a year ago and all.
Since he decided to retire a year ago and all.
higgins
Footballguy
The reporting has been that coach Caldwell asked him to take some time to think it over, and that he took the coach's suggestion out of respect.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Anything's possible I guess. But I'll believe it when the paperwork is filed.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I love the media here in NE. I have seen several articles explaining how badly the Patriots need Megatron and how to make that a reality. I LOLed. The pats are only $5 million under the cap and will need Fort Knox soon to keep their defense together (Hightower, Collins, Jones, and Butler all have only one year left on their contracts).
Apparently reports haven't heard of this thing called the salary cap. If it were up to them, they would have teams with $200+ million a year in player contracts each season.
Apparently reports haven't heard of this thing called the salary cap. If it were up to them, they would have teams with $200+ million a year in player contracts each season.
Shutout
Footballguy
Not everyone bases all their decisions on money.
YOur point is valid and a strong case but we also must notice that the history of Calvin Johnson has shown us two important things:
1)He doesn't talk just to talk or be heard or blow steam and his interaction style is always to the point and face to face. I don't think he is playing a game here and there really is no reason to. If nothing changes, he could have NOT planted a seed before the season and then again after and simply earned $16M with no payback of $4M. Angling to be cut sooner or later or whatnot doesn't satisfy anything driven from a pure money end. Would somebody maybe pay him $18 or $20 M? Perhaps. But that's a lot of plotting and seeding to get into for a team that just came out of the playoffs, the guy has lived in Detroit his entire career, knows his place where he is, etc, etc.
2)He is clearly not the same player he was just 2 years ago. Whatever it is, something is taking a toll on his body , whether that is a knee, a back, general aging or whatever. He is just not the same Calvin Johnson we saw for 4-5 years there.
I've said before, it IS a lot of money and it is almost impossible for us, the everyday man...the commoner...to be able to wrap our heads around something like this but Calvin's a smart guy and Calvin knows the scenario better than anyone and has never been an attention seeker. I see no reason NOT to take his word for it.
Shutout
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The longer Calvin goes without talking the better his chance to return for next season. I know the NFL does not want players like Calvin to make announcements during SuperBowl week but Calvins season was over a month ago.
Martha Ford wants Calvin back badly..what Martha wants she usually gets. They are already talking about if Calvin returns he can leave after the games on Sunday and not show up again until Wed giving him more time off during the season.
Calvin does not want to redo his contract or take less money. What he may do though it take a 2 year deal fully guaranteed like Larry Fitz did..or Calvin could retire.
New GM Bob Quinn has not reached out to Calvin so there are rumors Quinn would like him to retire and free up a ton of cap space the next two seasons to rebuild fill all the holes in the Lions roster.
Martha Ford wants Calvin back badly..what Martha wants she usually gets. They are already talking about if Calvin returns he can leave after the games on Sunday and not show up again until Wed giving him more time off during the season.
Calvin does not want to redo his contract or take less money. What he may do though it take a 2 year deal fully guaranteed like Larry Fitz did..or Calvin could retire.
New GM Bob Quinn has not reached out to Calvin so there are rumors Quinn would like him to retire and free up a ton of cap space the next two seasons to rebuild fill all the holes in the Lions roster.
Insein
Footballguy
No you won't. You'll be the one quoting to us that Favre filed paperwork too and look what happened to him.
massraider
Footballguy
Yeah, attention-seeking has nothing to do with this.
As far as making a decision based on money, I have no reason to doubt Calvin.
People need to keep in mind, there is a massive difference between walking away from a big payday, and PAYING 5 million to quit.
Anyone who writes a check for that amount feels it.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This, all the rumors around Detroit right now are that he is coming back, this is a ploy to not get his salary reduced. If I had to guess 1 of 2 things is going to happen.
Calvin gets a full 2 year guaranteed deal like Guru said for 22 to 26 million.
The Lions cut him and let him sign with another team, no one is trading for that contract and I don't see Calvin redoing his deal so Detroit can try to trade him.
Last edited by a moderator:
lod01
Footballguy
Hypothetical: He announces his retirement pre draft. What happens in July when he says he's decided to comeback? Does his contract automatically kick back in? Lions will have addressed the WR position since they absolutely have to. He could force them to then cut him, allowing him to re-sign elsewhere. As stupid as they are, they couldn't possibly keep him knowing it could be his last year and they are absolutely not a contender.
beef
Footballguy
msommer
Footballguy
msudaisy26
Footballguy
That wasn't true for Farve, he came back after announcing his retirement and had a decent year with the Jets, and then a great year with the Vikings, before flaming out in his final year.
Carson Palmer retired until the Bengals traded him and he has been good.
Ricky Williams came back and had some good years after he retired and came back.
Randall Cunningham
massraider
Footballguy
In theory: If he announces his retirement, the Lions place him on the reserve/retired list, and gain the cap room right away. They can also go after the pro-rated signing bonus of the two signing bonuses (Lions contract guys=dumbells). If he returns, the Lions would have to activate him, and find room on the salary cap for his $12 mill cap figure. Which would be nigh impossible.
If he announces his retirement, and files the paperwork, then the Lions can go after his signing bonus money.
However, now that I think about it: The Lions need that cap space more than they need the return of the bonus money. There is NO WAY Calvin announces his retirement anytime soon, in my humble opinion. If he is considering retirement, then a renegotiated contract isn't an option, and that is probably the only way the Lions were planning on keeping him.
The smart business play for CJ is to tell the team he is planning on retiring, but not ACTUALLY do it. The Lions cannot wait until August, or even April, to clear some space. If he retires, the Lions have a right to the money. If they cut him in March, because they need the space, Calvin keeps the pro-rated bonus money.
Once they cut him, he can either make his own deal, or retire whenever he wants. Or even not retire, no one says he HAS to formally retire. Most don't.
If he is serious about retiring, he has 5 million reasons to wait.
massraider
Footballguy
Holding out for money? Who said that?
People have known since Suh left that CJ's 2016 cap number wouldn't stand. He has known forever he wasn't collecting that paycheck.
I don't think he wants more money, I think that IF he doesn't want to retire (and I am not saying that he isn't sincere), he might just be taking control of his destiny, and trying to force the Lions to cut him as soon as possible. If a guy is gonna get cut, he wants to get cut as soon as the league year starts, when everyone has cash, and not in mid-April, or May.
Insein
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
They would save 11 million either way. If he retires, and the Lions recoup the 5 mill, they gain that money on the 2017 /2018 cap I believe.
The reason the Lions would cut him is timing. Calvin can retire whenever he wants. The Lions are roughly 18 mill under the cap for 2016, which is in the lower half of the league. They could use that 11 mill during free agency, or at least like to know if they have that cushion. Calvin can wait on retirement, and his 24 mill cap number hangs around their neck. He retires in August, they gain 11 mill in cap space, but free agency is over. They can go after his signing bonus, but that's a small consolation.
massraider
Footballguy
You asked why they would cut him. June 1st designation has nothing to do with anything we were talking about.
I'm not following why the Lions would want or need to cut him, versus just placing him on the reserve/retired list. Either option gets them the cap room they need, if this is true:
Regardless, asking him to return the prorated bonus would be pretty lame, even if they'd be within their rights. I don't envision that happening. Teams don't do crap like that to their iconic stars.
If I understand correctly, they'd only need to cut him if he came back and said, no, I'm not retired after all. Then they'd have to reinstate him or cut him. And they wouldn't have the cap space to reinstate, so they'd cut him at that point.
Regardless, asking him to return the prorated bonus would be pretty lame, even if they'd be within their rights. I don't envision that happening. Teams don't do crap like that to their iconic stars.
massraider
Footballguy
As I said, it's timing. As in: The timing of when Calvin Johnson formally retires.
Calvin has told the Lions he is going to retire, OK, fine. That doesn't do them any good, in terms of cap space. They are holding 24 mill on the cap for him, right now. They cannot place him on the reserve/retired list until he files the paperwork/announces his retirement, etc.
If Calvin takes his time with the decision, or doesn't bother to file the paperwork, it puts the Lions in a bind, in terms of cap space. Gaining 11 mill in cap space in March is a LOT more helpful than June. Lions have 18 mill to spend, if you leave 7-8 mill for rookies, and a little wiggle room to start the year, Calvin's salary would double their cap space for 2016.
Calvin can ensure that the Lions don't go after his pro-rated signing bonus, by dragging it out, and perhaps forcing the Lions to cut him, so they have access to that cap space. Then, he can retire, and not owe any money. It would be a bad business decision to retire anytime before free agency started.
We shall see what Calvin does. I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, but there are business reasons why he could just be threatening to do this.
I'm real happy everyone thinks Calvin is a swell guy and all, but business is business.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
You're assuming they want access to that cap space more than they hope Calvin changes his mind. Until they get to the point where they have a guy they'd like to sign but can't due to Calvin, his status is moot. They currently have $21M in available space and could lower that by another $20M pretty easily with Stafford and Reiff's deals. I don't follow them but I don't think they have any bid dollar UFA they need to re-sign right now, so unless they are going on a spree this doesn't seem like a big deal either way.
On the bolded, which is it? Can the Lions put him on the retired list when he "announces" his retirement? From the reports we've seen, he's done that -- he told the coach 2015 was his last season. Easy to interpret that as an announcement.
Or do they need to wait until he formally files paperwork with the league? Like you said, many guys never file.
And what is required for the Lions to utilize the reserve part of the reserve/retired list? Maybe they don't need him to announce or file, they just need to designate him as reserved.
I'm just spitballing here. I don't know how these rules work, which is why I'm asking.
massraider
Footballguy
I certainly don't believe that they place him on the retired list without an announcement. And stories in the paper regarding conversations last summer, I am guessing don't qualify. 
I think if they were to try and place him on that list without an announcement from him, the NFLPA would have a grievance. They cannot have a player on that list, use his cap space, if that player may still want to play.
Do all signs point to him retiring? Sure. My ONLY point in all this, is that it is in the best interest of the Lions to resolve it sooner rather than later. But that is NOT necessarily in the best interest of Calvin, who may be forced to repay money if he retires. He can force the Lions to cut him, and not be on the hook for that money. He can also then go and do whatever he wants, including sign a new deal with someone else.
Would the Lions forgive the 5 mill they are owed if CJ retires, because he was a great player? Maybe, but why would Calvin bet 5 million on the goodwill of the Lions, when he can just force them to cut him, and not risk it? By the way, the Lions got a signing bonus refund from a much more iconic player than CJ, so let's not be naive here.
I think if they were to try and place him on that list without an announcement from him, the NFLPA would have a grievance. They cannot have a player on that list, use his cap space, if that player may still want to play.
Do all signs point to him retiring? Sure. My ONLY point in all this, is that it is in the best interest of the Lions to resolve it sooner rather than later. But that is NOT necessarily in the best interest of Calvin, who may be forced to repay money if he retires. He can force the Lions to cut him, and not be on the hook for that money. He can also then go and do whatever he wants, including sign a new deal with someone else.
Would the Lions forgive the 5 mill they are owed if CJ retires, because he was a great player? Maybe, but why would Calvin bet 5 million on the goodwill of the Lions, when he can just force them to cut him, and not risk it? By the way, the Lions got a signing bonus refund from a much more iconic player than CJ, so let's not be naive here.
massraider
Footballguy
CJ is going to count 15% of their cap this year. 15% of any teams cap is a big deal.
It's perfectly clear why the Lions may want Johnson on the reserve/retired list, and equally clear why he would prefer to be cut instead.I certainly don't believe that they place him on the retired list without an announcement. And stories in the paper regarding conversations last summer, I am guessing don't qualify.
I think if they were to try and place him on that list without an announcement from him, the NFLPA would have a grievance. They cannot have a player on that list, use his cap space, if that player may still want to play.
Do all signs point to him retiring? Sure. My ONLY point in all this, is that it is in the best interest of the Lions to resolve it sooner rather than later. But that is NOT necessarily in the best interest of Calvin, who may be forced to repay money if he retires. He can force the Lions to cut him, and not be on the hook for that money. He can also then go and do whatever he wants, including sign a new deal with someone else.
Would the Lions forgive the 5 mill they are owed if CJ retires, because he was a great player? Maybe, but why would Calvin bet 5 million on the goodwill of the Lions, when he can just force them to cut him, and not risk it? By the way, the Lions got a signing bonus refund from a much more iconic player than CJ, so let's not be naive here.
What must take place before the Lions can place Johnson on that list is still clear as mud.
In thinking about it, it did occur to me that the specific language of the conversation that's been reported may be significant. What I've read is that after the last game, Johnson told Caldwell that 2015 would be his final season in the NFL. The word "retire" isn't in there anywhere. I'm wondering if that's purposeful on Johnson's part.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
If I were the Lions there's no way I'd cut him. Make him file his retirement papers. And if the timing of that filing hurts the team I'd go after every dime of the money.
That article suggests to me that the Lions got pissy about it with Sanders because Sanders wanted to play elsewhere. Sanders offered to repay the bonus if only they would release him.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
If Calvin wants to retire, there's more than ample time for him to do it in a way that doesn't hurt the team.
lod01
Footballguy
So maybe Calvin is trying a different angle. 'Pay me 24 million. By the way I may retire at the end of 2016.' He has them by the balls as far as paying him his full 24 million for 2016. What idiotic team would pay a guy that kind of money if he's not in their future plans and he is definitely not in their future (the Lions). They would just be pissing away $24 million. The difference between him and Sanders is that his cap # is absurd. They can't ignore it. They could tell Sanders, you play for us or you don't play at all.
