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Cam Newton (1 Viewer)

'floods said:
'ImTheScientist said:
One of the best rookie seasons ... no doubt... but unless he improves that won't move him to the upper echelon of NFL passers. So again, "He needs to cut down on the 17 INTS and had needs to have a higher completion percentage before he's more than average as a QB. He's an excellent runner."
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You can nitpick all you want, but what you're saying is the equivalent of, "Sure, Randy Moss had one of the best rookie seasons, but I'm not sold until I see him do it again next season."
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nope. What Im sayin is unless he improves as a passer he won't move him to the upper echelon of NFL QBs. Unless you think 60% completion percentage and 17ints is upper echelon. Are we not projecting Newton? Or is this a praise for his rookie season thread? Let me know...thanks.

 
'ImTheScientist said:
'floods said:
'ImTheScientist said:
One of the best rookie seasons ... no doubt... but unless he improves that won't move him to the upper echelon of NFL passers. So again, "He needs to cut down on the 17 INTS and had needs to have a higher completion percentage before he's more than average as a QB. He's an excellent runner."
Click to expand...
You can nitpick all you want, but what you're saying is the equivalent of, "Sure, Randy Moss had one of the best rookie seasons, but I'm not sold until I see him do it again next season."
Click to expand...
nope. What Im sayin is unless he improves as a passer he won't move him to the upper echelon of NFL QBs. Unless you think 60% completion percentage and 17ints is upper echelon. Are we not projecting Newton? Or is this a praise for his rookie season thread? Let me know...thanks.
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for a rookie with no offseason? his performance was damn good.regardless, i think it's time to move on since you can't seem to look beyond those two stats and into the possibility that he may actually improve as most rookies do.

 
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'ImTheScientist said:
'floods said:
'ImTheScientist said:
One of the best rookie seasons ... no doubt... but unless he improves that won't move him to the upper echelon of NFL passers. So again, "He needs to cut down on the 17 INTS and had needs to have a higher completion percentage before he's more than average as a QB. He's an excellent runner."
Click to expand...
You can nitpick all you want, but what you're saying is the equivalent of, "Sure, Randy Moss had one of the best rookie seasons, but I'm not sold until I see him do it again next season."
Click to expand...
nope. What Im sayin is unless he improves as a passer he won't move him to the upper echelon of NFL QBs. Unless you think 60% completion percentage and 17ints is upper echelon. Are we not projecting Newton? Or is this a praise for his rookie season thread? Let me know...thanks.
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He finished in the upper echelon of fantasy QB's despite his average passing percentage and 17 int's. We get it. You don't like him and think he's a one year wonder. Your entitled to your opinion. It's just your logic as you try to justify your stance makes no sense. At the end of the day you think he will regress "because I said so".

 
'The Gunslinger said:
He finished in the upper echelon of fantasy QB's despite his average passing percentage and 17 int's.

We get it. You don't like him and think he's a one year wonder. Your entitled to your opinion. It's just your logic as you try to justify your stance makes no sense. At the end of the day you think he will regress "because I said so".
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Didn't say that, you did. At the end of the day I don't think he will repeat his last seasons fantasy numbers this season. He may improve as a passer... may not..... but to be a Top NFL QB he will need to, for fantasy purposes...probably doesn't matter if he improves as a passer. :banned:
 
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I'm as big of a Cam skeptic as you'll find, but you cannot discount what he did last year. You can question how he will do in future seasons and there are neck-up issues to cite for that, but you cannot question what he did last year on the field.

 
'ImTheScientist said:
'The Gunslinger said:
He finished in the upper echelon of fantasy QB's despite his average passing percentage and 17 int's.

We get it. You don't like him and think he's a one year wonder. Your entitled to your opinion. It's just your logic as you try to justify your stance makes no sense. At the end of the day you think he will regress "because I said so".
Click to expand...
Didn't say that, you did. At the end of the day I don't think he will repeat his last seasons fantasy numbers this season. He may improve as a passer... may not..... but to be a Top NFL QB he will need to, for fantasy purposes...probably doesn't matter if he improves as a passer. :banned:
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Oh I see what this is :fishing:
 
'ImTheScientist said:
'The Gunslinger said:
He finished in the upper echelon of fantasy QB's despite his average passing percentage and 17 int's.

We get it. You don't like him and think he's a one year wonder. Your entitled to your opinion. It's just your logic as you try to justify your stance makes no sense. At the end of the day you think he will regress "because I said so".
Click to expand...
Didn't say that, you did. At the end of the day I don't think he will repeat his last seasons fantasy numbers this season. He may improve as a passer... may not..... but to be a Top NFL QB he will need to, for fantasy purposes...probably doesn't matter if he improves as a passer. :banned:
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Thank you. The bolded is right on. His rushing abilities far outweigh any perceived weaknesses in his passing game (of which I don't personally see many.)Regarding the QB's you would take over him, lets look at their numbers in comparison to Newton in their Rookie years-since you keep cherry picking the 60%/17 int stats (while ignoring the others):

Newton: 60.0%/4051/21 TD/17 int/84.5 rating

Manning: 56.7%/3739/26 TD/28 int/71.2 rating

Brees: 60.8%/3284/17 TD/16 int/76.9 rating

Rodgers: 63.6%/4038/28 TD/13 int/93.8 rating (fourth year full time starter)

Stafford: 53.3%/2267/13 TD/20 int/61.0 rating (shortened season-10 games)

I put Rodgers in because he is on your list, but he had four years of grooming prior to his full season-I think its fair to say he's an outlier in this discussion about rookie years.

So according to this, Newton had a better completion percentage than all but Brees (.8% less); much higher yardage total than all; more TDs than all but Manning (5 less); Less ints than all but Brees (1 more); and a much better QB rating than all. This is before you factor in rushing stats; Newton ran for 200 more yards than the other four COMBINED and rushed for twice as many TDs as the other four COMBINED...

Newton: 706 yards/14 TDs

Manning: 62 yards/0 TD

Brees 130 yards/1 TD

Rodgers: 207 yards/4 TDs

Staf: 108 yards/2 TDs

Add in the fact that he was dropped into one of the worst teams in the league, with no off-season to acclimate himself to the NFL.

All the QB's you would take over him developed into what they are now from sub-Cam rookie seasons. Why is it that you think Cam only has regression written on him? What do you project for him this coming season?

And to be clear, since you keep qualifying your responses with Cam not being an "upper echelon NFL Passer", I am speaking about him in terms of a Fantasy Football QB, where passing yards, TDs, rushing yards, rushing TDs and Ints, are the only things I care about.

 
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To those calling me delusional, I have made some PRETTY interesting calls in the past on here:

Here I told everyone to BUY McCoy before his value sky-rocketed:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=554774&st=0

Or when everyone was touting Best as a Top-5 Dynasty Player? Halted my brakes on that one:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=556888&st=0

Or when I called Arian Foster the "steal of next year's draft" the year before he broke out:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=515226&view=findpost&p=11320603

Or when I predicted Steve Johnson's breakout:

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=501210&view=findpost&p=11532308

-

Does that mean I'm right about this one? No, there's absolutely no correlation.

Does it bolster my credibility a bit? I hope so.

 
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'Eminence said:
To those calling me delusional, I have made some PRETTY interesting calls in the past on here:Here I told everyone to BUY McCoy before his value sky-rocketed:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=554774&st=0Or when everyone was touting Best as a Top-5 Dynasty Player? Halted my brakes on that one:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=556888&st=0Or when I called Arian Foster the "steal of next year's draft" the year before he broke out:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=515226&view=findpost&p=11320603Or when I predicted Steve Johnson's breakout:http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=501210&view=findpost&p=11532308-Does that mean I'm right about this one? No, there's absolutely no correlation.Does it bolster my credibility a bit? I hope so.
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:rolleyes: since you're keeping track... could you show us all of the incorrect calls you've made as well? wow...
 
'bonesman said:
'Eminence said:
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=630570&st=0I eat my crow with the best of them. Only if I don't draft / acquire Newton it won't really affect my season. I have a Dynasty coming up where I pick 9th / 10th. If he falls to me, I will certainly draft him and flip him for players I deem more valuable.
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How's Stephen Williams doing?
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He and Johnny White are happily rostered in deeper leagues with virtually little to no cost.Edit:But this isn't a Me + Cam Newton thread, this is a Cam Newton thread.
 
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'Eminence said:
There doesn't seem to be much debate about Newton, everyone is touting him as the next stud QB. What he did during the lockout was impressive but who's to say he didn't take advantage of defenses that were adjusting to the lockout as well?

First 8 games:

2,393 Yards / 11 TD / 9 INT

319 Yards Rushing / 7 TD

Bye

Last 8 Games:

1,658 Yards / 10 TD / 8 INT

387 Yards Rushing / 7 TD

He threw for 700 less yards down the stretch than he did in just 1st 8 starts. With that said, his passing stats if he continues like his second half stats suggest would be:

3,300 Yards / 20 TD / 16INT

You can argue that his TD will rise or his INT will go down but in my personal opinion a QB who relies on RZ TDs is not a player I am willing to burn an early pick on, especially in Dynasty.

14 Rushing TD? That's an incredible number even for a Running Back. I'm not so sure Newton is going to have as spectacular a year as last.

Even with just the regression in passing yards (700 less), that's 28 Fantasy Points there. If he has only 4 less Rushing Touchdowns, that's 32 points there.

70 less points over 16 games is 4 less points per game from your Quarterback, potentially more if his TD total drops more.

Let's say he goes for:

3,300 / 21TD / 17INT

700 / 10TD

That's 354 Fantasy Points and a realistic expectation. Now Matt Ryan last year went for:

4,100 / 29TD / 12INT

359 / 4TD

That's 381 Fantastic Points for Matt Ryan. Scale him down for regression and he's in the same tier (IMO) as Newton. Only with a very good chance to improve / sustain his numbers as opposed to regress like Newton.
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Bump.
 
It's 3 games into the season. He already has 2 rushing TDs, and 2 of his games he had a 70% completion rating, throwing for 300 in one of them.

He's going to be fine...

 
We need to lower our expectations of Newton this year, some, but don't overreact to yesterday's game, Seattle made Rodgers and Romo look bad too. He had 5+ potential completions dropped or interfered with (no call). On top of that, he was hit at least 10 times in the pocket.

He still has 30 point potential every week, but we do need to start looking at his matchups more. When teams can stop the run, the Panthers can't overcome that.

 
Newt still can get your team points with his legs but it does look like he has regressed as a QB quite a bit this year. Puzzling to watch him now, he does not even look like the same QB. Still early but he has not looked good.

 
I think Newton has talent and I even want to root for him. Then l see how he pouts like a baby when things dont go well for HIM. I think the team will move toward his comfort zone after the bye - ie. more spread offense. Steve Smith should hopefully heal up and that helps newton get pass yards in chunks. Carolina was hoping newton would progress into a more accurate pocket passing qb but unfortunately this is not the case. The team will need to work on his potential another year in a move that will mean more ff points for the offense but keep the team in a holding pattern as a borderline .500 team imo.

 
'ImTheScientist said:
'floods said:
'ImTheScientist said:
One of the best rookie seasons ... no doubt... but unless he improves that won't move him to the upper echelon of NFL passers. So again, "He needs to cut down on the 17 INTS and had needs to have a higher completion percentage before he's more than average as a QB. He's an excellent runner."
Click to expand...
You can nitpick all you want, but what you're saying is the equivalent of, "Sure, Randy Moss had one of the best rookie seasons, but I'm not sold until I see him do it again next season."
Click to expand...
nope. What Im sayin is unless he improves as a passer he won't move him to the upper echelon of NFL QBs. Unless you think 60% completion percentage and 17ints is upper echelon. Are we not projecting Newton? Or is this a praise for his rookie season thread? Let me know...thanks.
Click to expand...
Lookin pretty right so far.
 
I'm fairly vested in Cam (2/3 dynasty leagues), so take this with a grain of salt since I'm going to be somewhat biased, but I think a lot of what he's going through right now are just growing pains. He had the greatest rookie season for a QB ever. Ever. He never had to experience the failure that he's going through right now. What so many people are keying on is what makes me a believer: he doesn't deal well with loss and failure. It typically takes several years for the game to slow down for QBs, I think you're going to see more application of Cam's physical gifting around the typical emergence point at the end of his 3rd year.

There are a lot of risks, there is the possibility that he never overcomes some of this mental weakness, but so it goes in FF. His ceiling is higher than any other QB in the league, and I (and others) feel that it's worth the risk.

 
Ouch!

Earl Thomas: We knew Cam would 'tank'

It was a day of lows for Cam Newton. He threw for a career low 141 yards in Sunday's 16-12 loss to the Seattle Seahawks. He completed a career-low 41.4 percent. And we don't think it's an exaggeration to say his one-hopped pass to tight end Ben Hartsock on fouth-and-goal late in the game was the toughest moment of his career.

Newton isn't measuring up to his performance level of a season ago. Heck he's not measuring up to this year's rookie class.

"I just failed to throw it to (Hartsock), to give him an accurate throw," Newton said after the game. "So that comes on me. I pride myself on being very prepared and being able to do things when my number is called. My number was called right there and I didn't get the job done. I think that' shame on me."

Newton's final numbers actually look pretty good compared to where Newton was after three quarters. At one point, he was 3-for-16 for 39 yards. The book is out on Newton. Seattle has one of the best defenses in the league and they knew just how to contain Newton from getting outside.

"We know he's a great dual-threat quarterback, but once we bottle it up and frustrate him, we know he's going to tank a little bit," Seahawks safety Earl Thomas told the Associated Press about Newton. "We were able to do that today."

Carolina Panthers coach Ron Rivera said Monday he believes Newton is "pressing" too much. He thinks the Newton isn't taking his checkdown passes as much. He's always looking for the big, vertical play.

We'd argue the Panthers coaching staff hasn't helped. They don't have a foundation running game or drop-back passing attack. They rely on the option and the big play. When that doesn't work, they have no rhythm.

The attention on Newton has also distracted from the reality that Rivera is a defensive coach and his defense has uniformly been poor since the start of last year.
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'floods said:
I'm fairly vested in Cam (2/3 dynasty leagues), so take this with a grain of salt since I'm going to be somewhat biased, but I think a lot of what he's going through right now are just growing pains. He had the greatest rookie season for a QB ever. Ever. He never had to experience the failure that he's going through right now. What so many people are keying on is what makes me a believer: he doesn't deal well with loss and failure. It typically takes several years for the game to slow down for QBs, I think you're going to see more application of Cam's physical gifting around the typical emergence point at the end of his 3rd year.There are a lot of risks, there is the possibility that he never overcomes some of this mental weakness, but so it goes in FF. His ceiling is higher than any other QB in the league, and I (and others) feel that it's worth the risk.
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You are seeing the difference between garbage time passing stats and stats when there are expectations. He has not progressed as a passer....he has horrible mechanics, and has a horrible attitude.
 
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'ImTheScientist said:
'floods said:
I'm fairly vested in Cam (2/3 dynasty leagues), so take this with a grain of salt since I'm going to be somewhat biased, but I think a lot of what he's going through right now are just growing pains. He had the greatest rookie season for a QB ever. Ever. He never had to experience the failure that he's going through right now. What so many people are keying on is what makes me a believer: he doesn't deal well with loss and failure. It typically takes several years for the game to slow down for QBs, I think you're going to see more application of Cam's physical gifting around the typical emergence point at the end of his 3rd year.There are a lot of risks, there is the possibility that he never overcomes some of this mental weakness, but so it goes in FF. His ceiling is higher than any other QB in the league, and I (and others) feel that it's worth the risk.
Click to expand...
You are seeing the difference between garbage time passing stats and stats when there are expectations. He has not progressed as a passer....he has horrible mechanics, and has a horrible attitude.
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And just when you think he has hit rock bottom, he takes down another notch. From his first week of the season, his career has gone like the stock market crash of 1929.Everyne hoping to sell on a bounce.
 
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