Can somebody explain in their own words (1 Viewer)

[fatness]

I would rather have TO than John Abraham

Same here. Abraham can't get open, runs lousy routes, and drops too many passes.

 

[massraider]

That's not true, either. The quarterback was hurt, and the team suspended their best receiver. They were 4-3 when it was just the quarterback being hurt. They were 2-7 once they suspended their best receiver, too.

Right, which kind of proves the point that TO's actions, and his eventual suspension, led directly to the Eagles downfall, doesn't it?You forgive a lot of TO's actions because the Eagles wouldn't renegotiate a seven year deal one year into it. You see this as some sort of slap in the face. I don't get that.

He outplayed the deal? How so? He was a great receiver when he signed the deal, then had a great year. If he thought he could've gotten more money on the open market, then he should've signed a one year deal.

 

[scoobygang]

But otherwise, what behavior do you think will repeat?

I think you'll tell us in 50 or 100 more posts why nothing Owens did is his fault, or is someone else's fault, or he didn't do it, or it's not really so bad, or he won't do it any more, or that other people should put up with it, or that it doesn't matter because he's talented, or that the dog ate his homework.

Why does it have to be about "fault" and not? I think Owens and McNabb both acted like babies, and I blame both of them for what went down.I probably blame Andy Reid even more. We all love to say that no one person is bigger than the team and blah blah blah. Anyone who's ever played on a team knows that's a load of bull. Talented players get special rules, and you know what, most players understand that. I think it's telling that McNabb was whining about other teammates not "having his back" this offseason. Newsflash for Donovan, most of your teammates probably thought you didn't need to be protected from having your feelings hurt by something a teammate said. It's the NFL, not the girls' lunch table at the local junior high.

I don't feel the need to "defend" TO anymore than I feel the need to defend any football player. I care what they do on the field. TO was pretty much the only person on the Eagles doing anything when he was suspended. I think it was an idiotic decision borne out of this bizarre cult of the coach, where the worst thing you can do is question some coach or his pre-picked "leaders". It's bunk, and far too many coaches cut off their noses to spite their faces because they're afraid of losing control.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

This thread is as asanine as it gets. Owens has in his illustrious carreer:

1. Thrown two QB's under the bus for having the audacity to not throw to him 10 times a game. Than, when the don't respond, he calls one gay and the other a choker. This stuff is well documented.

You're making things up. Show me one source that implies Owens made comments about his QB because they didn't throw to him ten times a game.

2. He's thrown two different coaches under the bus for daring not to throw the ball to him every other play.

Again, this is patently untrue. If Owens is as bad as you say, you should be able to make true statements about him.

3. He went up to the Eagles WR coach and told him to 'Shut up and talk when he's spoken to".

4. He did little jackass manuvers to make sure the team knew he was unhappy. These went from little stuff like parking in handicapped spots in the facility to

I've covered this in several responses.

fighting with Hugh Douglas in the locker room when Hugh 'dared' to call his actions on the carpet.

That's a pretty liberal description of what happened. Hugh Douglas walked into the training room and accused Owens of faking an injury.

5. He came right out and said that "they didn't want me on this team if I'm not happy". He lived up to his word.

I don't have any idea what this quote means. It seems to be in the past tense, but then how do you live up to your word about something you said in the past? I think you may be making up quotes again.

6. His lousy attitude provided enough dissent to almost single handedly bring down a team that was in the championship game the year before.

That's not true, either. The quarterback was hurt, and the team suspended their best receiver. They were 4-3 when it was just the quarterback being hurt. They were 2-7 once they suspended their best receiver, too.

You're being a jackass for the sake of being a jackass. Number 1 and 2 in my list is well documented. If you want to look it up by doing a board search, feel free, I'm not going too. Quote 5 was said before the season began, I used past tense mistakenly. As for the rest, believe what you want, I'm done feeding your fishing trip.....

 

[bostonfred]

No remorse, no accoutablity for his actions. It is always not his fault in his eyes.

What actions do you expect him to take on a new team, where he isn't trying to renegotiate a contract, for which he should have remorse?

 

[gman8343]

No remorse, no accoutablity for his actions. It is always not his fault in his eyes.

What actions do you expect him to take on a new team, where he isn't trying to renegotiate a contract, for which he should have remorse?

I know you're not TO cause you're not TYPNG LKE THS, but come on man. You are insane if you don't think TO doesn't have some serious issues that keep coming up year after year.

 

[massraider]

No remorse, no accoutablity for his actions. It is always not his fault in his eyes.

What actions do you expect him to take on a new team, where he isn't trying to renegotiate a contract, for which he should have remorse?

1. Selfishness. Demanding the ball, and his on field dramatics whenever the ball doesn't go his way and HE feels he was open.2. Insulting his QB. YOu think Bledsoe is the man of TO's dreams? Did you see Bledsoe go after Keyshawn when Key fumbled that ball?

3. Incredibly stupid moves with the media. My observation: TO stopped developing mentally at about 14. Most 14 year olds shouldn't play with microphones. What was the last bright thing TO said to the media?

 

[faulkfan]

He's a jerk.

His actions are disruptive to team chemistry.  It's that simple, and nothing else really needs to be said.

He's a tool.  A joke.  But he can play football, so teams puts up with him.

I think we have truly exhausted the varying and sundry ways in which he is a problem.  Do a topic search.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I've heard plenty of people make these comments, but there's no substance behind them.

No substance?I guess we need an explanation of what "team chemistry" is. Team chemistry is the sense of cohesion that unifies a team thus creating a sort of "us vs them" mentality whereby each individual member is willing to sacrifice individual gain and accomplishment for the advancement of the group as a whole.

I am going to use this as my working definition.

Owens put his needs at the forefront of all others (demand for a bigger contract), destroyed any hope of creating an "us vs them" mindset (refusing to adhere to the rules and norms that every other player on the Eagles adhered to, such as bringing his playbook to, or paying attention in, meetings), and did all in his power to prevent any semblance of cohesion (attacking McNabb and management because he was unhappy about his contract).

This is what is meant by a "team cancer" and this fits Owens to a "T".

If performance on the field were the only thing necessary for winning then Owens would be fine, but as long as his insecurities require him to be in the public eye, he will always be a problem for whatever team he plays for.

He is the epitomy of ignorance as evidenced by his willingness to forego the opportunity to win a Super Bowl with a contending team and the associated wealth of endorsements that accompany that. Instead he alienates himself from fans and sponsors leaving his only income option from his salary. Additionally, he allowed his ego to listen to the siren song of an even bigger ego maniac to get to this point.

Owens is insecure and foolish and will stand as the beacon of all that is wrong with professional sports until an even bigger idiot comes along, which will probably not be anytime soon.

Your opinion is that as long as what he says has even the slightest chance of being correct, that he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I disagree. A large part of his idiocy is his complete inability to execise any diplomacy whatsoever in virtually every situation. I can say that you are a moron, and perhaps there are times that you are indeed a moron, but this doesn't make the method I used to state my opinion, nor the accuracy of my statement valid merely because there is a chance I could be right.

The good news for everyone who watches the NFL is that he'll only play 12 games before getting hurt and then we can forget about him until he starts squawking in the off season. Also, at 32 he shouldn't be around much longer. I personally can hardly wait until he goes over the middle against the Eagles the first time. I hope they ring his bell like the Hunchback of Notre Dame. That's my opinion, and just like TO, I deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[bostonfred]

This thread is as asanine as it gets. Owens has in his illustrious carreer:

1. Thrown two QB's under the bus for having the audacity to not throw to him 10 times a game. Than, when the don't respond, he calls one gay and the other a choker. This stuff is well documented.

You're making things up. Show me one source that implies Owens made comments about his QB because they didn't throw to him ten times a game.

2. He's thrown two different coaches under the bus for daring not to throw the ball to him every other play.

Again, this is patently untrue. If Owens is as bad as you say, you should be able to make true statements about him.

You're being a jackass for the sake of being a jackass. Number 1 and 2 in my list is well documented. If you want to look it up by doing a board search, feel free, I'm not going too. Quote 5 was said before the season began, I used past tense mistakenly. As for the rest, believe what you want, I'm done feeding your fishing trip.....

I'm not trying to be a jackass. Numbers 1 and 2 on your list are NOT well documented. He wasn't upset at McNabb for not throwing enough to him. The comment he made was that McNabb got tired in the Superbowl. That's a completely different point, and one I've discussed in this thread, but you're making up reasons and getting mad at him for them.If you want to talk about what he said about his quarterbacks or coaches, and actually discuss why, feel free to join the discussion.

 

[bostonfred]

No remorse, no accoutablity for his actions. It is always not his fault in his eyes.

What actions do you expect him to take on a new team, where he isn't trying to renegotiate a contract, for which he should have remorse?

I know you're not TO cause you're not TYPNG LKE THS, but come on man. You are insane if you don't think TO doesn't have some serious issues that keep coming up year after year.

OK, name some that you expect to come up this year. Let's talk about why things happened in the past. Do you expect him to be trying to get a new contract?

 

[bostonfred]

Owens put his needs at the forefront of all others (demand for a bigger contract), destroyed any hope of creating an "us vs them" mindset (refusing to adhere to the rules and norms that every other player on the Eagles adhered to, such as bringing his playbook to, or paying attention in, meetings), and did all in his power to prevent any semblance of cohesion (attacking McNabb and management because he was unhappy about his contract).

This is what is meant by a "team cancer" and this fits Owens to a "T".

This is fair. Owens handled his contract renegotiations poorly. I agree. He was deliberately disruptive, in lieu of holding out. In the meantime, he contributed to the team winning twice as many games in the seven games he played as they did during the nine games he didn't, so it's not like he was dragging the team down singlehandedly.

If performance on the field were the only thing necessary for winning then Owens would be fine, but as long as his insecurities require him to be in the public eye, he will always be a problem for whatever team he plays for.

Now we're getting somewhere. Do you think Parcells will help him to work with the media? I do.

He is the epitomy of ignorance as evidenced by his willingness to forego the opportunity to win a Super Bowl with a contending team and the associated wealth of endorsements that accompany that.

He chose Philadelphia, and tried to renegotiate. Philadelphia played hardball, Owens tried to respond in kind, but with poor planning and execution, and Philadelphia put an end to it. Now he's signing with a contender. How does that mean he's foregoing a Superbowl opportunity?

Instead he alienates himself from fans and sponsors leaving his only income option from his salary. Additionally, he allowed his ego to listen to the siren song of an even bigger ego maniac to get to this point.

Or he's just not that business savvy. For someone as dumb as you seem to think he is, I'm surprised that you think his giant ego was the problem and won't give him the benefit of the doubt that he was manipulated by two agents in a row.

Your opinion is that as long as what he says has even the slightest chance of being correct, that he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

That's not my opinion.

I disagree. A large part of his idiocy is his complete inability to execise any diplomacy whatsoever in virtually every situation. I can say that you are a moron, and perhaps there are times that you are indeed a moron, but this doesn't make the method I used to state my opinion, nor the accuracy of my statement valid merely because there is a chance I could be right.

OK, so you don't like him because he's not diplomatic. Is that the standard you hold all players to?

The good news for everyone who watches the NFL is that he'll only play 12 games before getting hurt and then we can forget about him until he starts squawking in the off season. Also, at 32 he shouldn't be around much longer. I personally can hardly wait until he goes over the middle against the Eagles the first time. I hope they ring his bell like the Hunchback of Notre Dame. That's my opinion, and just like TO, I deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Glad to see you took the high road. Stay classy!

 

[JohnnyU]

OK, name some that you expect to come up this year. Let's talk about why things happened in the past. Do you expect him to be trying to get a new contract?

The point is, if it's not one thing, it's another. Owens will always find something wrong with his situation, or he will say something bad about a teammate to the media. I hope he doesn't, but the odds are against him. His track record speaks for itself. Terrell Owens can't seem to get out of his own way.

 

[bostonfred]

No remorse, no accoutablity for his actions. It is always not his fault in his eyes.

What actions do you expect him to take on a new team, where he isn't trying to renegotiate a contract, for which he should have remorse?

1. Selfishness. Demanding the ball, and his on field dramatics whenever the ball doesn't go his way and HE feels he was open.2. Insulting his QB. YOu think Bledsoe is the man of TO's dreams? Did you see Bledsoe go after Keyshawn when Key fumbled that ball?

3. Incredibly stupid moves with the media. My observation: TO stopped developing mentally at about 14. Most 14 year olds shouldn't play with microphones. What was the last bright thing TO said to the media?

Parcells coached a guy who wrote a book titled "just give me the damn ball", then not only brought him back for a second go around, but traded for him. I think he knows how to deal with selfish receivers. Most of the top receivers are selfish - just ask Jerry Porter why he wears 84, or Rice how he felt about not getting the ball enough. It's a position where you're supposed to want the ball. Drew's been dragged through the mud his whole career. People have told him he's a statue, he's too dumb to throw the ball away, that the backup took his job while he was out with injury, and that his skills eroded while he was in Buffalo.

If Owens says anything with the media, I'm sure Parcells, one of the most media savvy head coaches of all time, will be involved. This does seem to be a good fit.

 

[bostonfred]

But otherwise, what behavior do you think will repeat?

I think you'll tell us in 50 or 100 more posts why nothing Owens did is his fault, or is someone else's fault, or he didn't do it, or it's not really so bad, or he won't do it any more, or that other people should put up with it, or that it doesn't matter because he's talented, or that the dog ate his homework.

Why does it have to be about "fault" and not? I think Owens and McNabb both acted like babies, and I blame both of them for what went down.I probably blame Andy Reid even more. We all love to say that no one person is bigger than the team and blah blah blah. Anyone who's ever played on a team knows that's a load of bull. Talented players get special rules, and you know what, most players understand that. I think it's telling that McNabb was whining about other teammates not "having his back" this offseason. Newsflash for Donovan, most of your teammates probably thought you didn't need to be protected from having your feelings hurt by something a teammate said. It's the NFL, not the girls' lunch table at the local junior high.

I don't feel the need to "defend" TO anymore than I feel the need to defend any football player. I care what they do on the field. TO was pretty much the only person on the Eagles doing anything when he was suspended. I think it was an idiotic decision borne out of this bizarre cult of the coach, where the worst thing you can do is question some coach or his pre-picked "leaders". It's bunk, and far too many coaches cut off their noses to spite their faces because they're afraid of losing control.

 

[massraider]

OK, so you don't like him because he's not diplomatic. Is that the standard you hold all players to?

That's not actually what he said. But it's a good example of what is wrong with this thread in general:You ask people to give you reasons why TO is so bad, then when given reasons, you resond with with questions like the one above. At least, for the ones that you've chosen to resond to.

 

[massraider]

No remorse, no accoutablity for his actions. It is always not his fault in his eyes.

What actions do you expect him to take on a new team, where he isn't trying to renegotiate a contract, for which he should have remorse?

1. Selfishness. Demanding the ball, and his on field dramatics whenever the ball doesn't go his way and HE feels he was open.2. Insulting his QB. YOu think Bledsoe is the man of TO's dreams? Did you see Bledsoe go after Keyshawn when Key fumbled that ball?

3. Incredibly stupid moves with the media. My observation: TO stopped developing mentally at about 14. Most 14 year olds shouldn't play with microphones. What was the last bright thing TO said to the media?

Parcells coached a guy who wrote a book titled "just give me the damn ball", then not only brought him back for a second go around, but traded for him. I think he knows how to deal with selfish receivers. Most of the top receivers are selfish - just ask Jerry Porter why he wears 84, or Rice how he felt about not getting the ball enough. It's a position where you're supposed to want the ball. Drew's been dragged through the mud his whole career. People have told him he's a statue, he's too dumb to throw the ball away, that the backup took his job while he was out with injury, and that his skills eroded while he was in Buffalo.

If Owens says anything with the media, I'm sure Parcells, one of the most media savvy head coaches of all time, will be involved. This does seem to be a good fit.

Yeah, I think it's a good fit too.Which has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

And Parcells did good wih Key and Terry Glenn, the second time around, after they grew up. You think he handled Glenn good in New England, do ya?

 

[bostonfred]

That's not true, either.  The quarterback was hurt, and the team suspended their best receiver.  They were 4-3 when it was just the quarterback being hurt.  They were 2-7 once they suspended their best receiver, too.

Right, which kind of proves the point that TO's actions, and his eventual suspension, led directly to the Eagles downfall, doesn't it?

Once the distraction was removed from the team, the team should have played better, right? Just like in San Francisco, where they were 10-6 when he left and they haven't sniffed .500 since? Are they still distracted by Owens? Or were they just a much better team with him there than they are without him?

You forgive a lot of TO's actions because the Eagles wouldn't renegotiate a seven year deal one year into it. You see this as some sort of slap in the face. I don't get that.

He outplayed the deal? How so? He was a great receiver when he signed the deal, then had a great year. If he thought he could've gotten more money on the open market, then he should've signed a one year deal.

The Eagles knew they signed him below market value. The NFLPA knew it, too, and urged him not to sign the contract. His agent did him a huge disservice, and got fired. Then Rosenhaus came in and tried to manipulate the situation further. This isn't a case of a player trying to strongarm his way into a contract extension. There were a lot of politics involved, and Owens got yanked around by a lot of incompetent people.

I think a lot of people want to place all the blame on him, when there were a lot of other factors involved. But ESPN doesn't have time to talk about the details when hating Owens is so easy to sell.

 

[bostonfred]

OK, so you don't like him because he's not diplomatic. Is that the standard you hold all players to?

That's not actually what he said. But it's a good example of what is wrong with this thread in general:

It's not?

I disagree.  A large part of his idiocy is his complete inability to execise any diplomacy whatsoever in virtually every situation. I can say that you are a moron, and perhaps there are times that you are indeed a moron, but this doesn't make the method I used to state my opinion, nor the accuracy of my statement valid merely because there is a chance I could be right.

OK, so you don't like him because he's not diplomatic. Is that the standard you hold all players to?

You ask people to give you reasons why TO is so bad, then when given reasons, you resond with with questions like the one above. At least, for the ones that you've chosen to resond to.

I've responded to every single post in this thread that "explains in their own words what Owens does". Saying "He's a cancer" does not meet those criteria.

 

[crystal]

I've heard plenty of people make these comments, but there's no substance behind them.

Read this.

 

[bostonfred]

And Parcells did good wih Key and Terry Glenn, the second time around, after they grew up. You think he handled Glenn good in New England, do ya?

Yes, I do think Parcells handled Glenn very well in New England. Glenn didn't cause enough trouble to get kicked off the team till well after Parcells left. In fact, the only year they were together, Glenn set the rookie record for receptions and helped them get to the Superbowl.

 

[massraider]

Once the distraction was removed from the team, the team should have played better, right?

Who said this? Me? Do you have proof of me saying this?A Link? Any quotes of me saying this?Are you annoyed when someone asks a bunch of rhetorical questions rather than responding to the original point?The Eagles set up their offense and their salary cap with TO as their number one receiver. By becoming such a detriment to the team that he essentially removed himself from their roster, he figuratively bent over the entire Eagles fan base.That is my opinion, kinda like yours that poor TO has been a victim of two agents. Difference is, my opinion is steeped in fact.

 

[massraider]

It's not?

no, it's not. He explained exactly why his lack of diplomacy was an issue, and you respond with, "So you don't like him because he's not diplomatic."So you're either willfully being obtuse, or..............well, the other option isn't very nice, so I'll leave it there.

 

[bostonfred]

I've heard plenty of people make these comments, but there's no substance behind them.

Read this.

I didn't mean there's no case to be made for them. I meant that people wrote a series of one line posts saying "Of course he's an idiot". I'm looking for a substantive discussion of what he does that makes people call him an idiot, not for someone to say he's an idiot. I've read the decision. Thanks for the link. I understand what his issues were with Eagles management, and I understand their right to suspend/bench him.

But what we saw there was a specific case of him negotiating with Eagles management. Very poorly, as it turns out. But while I don't admire his approach, that doesn't mean he's some uncoachable player that will destroy any locker room on contact.

 

[bostonfred]

The Eagles set up their offense and their salary cap with TO as their number one receiver. By becoming such a detriment to the team that he essentially removed himself from their roster, he figuratively bent over the entire Eagles fan base.

That is my opinion, kinda like yours that poor TO has been a victim of two agents.

Difference is, my opinion is steeped in fact.

The point that he was a significant part of the team's salary cap is a good one. Of course, one could argue that Reid could have taken a less adversarial approach to the negotiations.I've said before that I don't admire how Owens acted with the Eagles, but when he tried to hold out - like so many other players in the past - the Eagles came down hard on him, and so he responded by making trouble until they extended him or cut him. This was a complete failure on both sides of the negotiating table.

But still, we're talking about what happened with the Eagles.

The part I'm interested in is, going forward, what do you see that leads you to believe he will continue the behavior he exhibited while in negotiations with the Eagles?

Do you expect him to sign a below-market-value deal with the Cowboys, try to get it renegotiated, have the Cowboys refuse to negotiate with him if he's not in camp, then have him use the same bad tactic that failed before? Because otherwise, you're just extrapolating his actions during the negotiations to his everyday actions as a player.

 

[fatness]

But while I don't admire his approach, that doesn't mean he's some uncoachable player that will destroy any locker room on contact.

I believe he is a player that will at some point be unwelcome in the Cowboys locker room. The only question in my mind is "when?" You don't believe this. Opinions seem to be divided into one view or the other. There really isn't a lot to talk about. Most people have their opinions one way or another, and nobody is changing anybody's mind.Until some actual football events happen, nobody's mind is likely to change, either. He has played no football since the middle of last season. Until training camp, the regular season, the playoffs happen, there's no real events to change people's minds or reinforce their opinions.

We're just re-hashing dead hash until then.

 

[bostonfred]

It's not?

no, it's not. He explained exactly why his lack of diplomacy was an issue, and you respond with, "So you don't like him because he's not diplomatic."So you're either willfully being obtuse, or..............well, the other option isn't very nice, so I'll leave it there.

I've reread his statement several times now, and the only thing I can think of is that you think I'm saying that what Owens said is OK because he was correct. Let me clear that up. What Owens said about his quarterbacks was wrong. He shouldn't have said bad things about Garcia, and he shouldn't have made his thinly veiled comment about McNabb choking in the Superbowl. I get that.

I just think you know what you're getting with Owens, and part of that is that he says stupid things. Or, as I said, he's not diplomatic. I just don't understand why that's such an inexcusable offense for Owens, when other players have taken far less heat for saying things about their teammates and coaches.

 

[cstu]

I've heard plenty of people make these comments, but there's no substance behind them.

Read this.

I didn't mean there's no case to be made for them. I meant that people wrote a series of one line posts saying "Of course he's an idiot". I'm looking for a substantive discussion of what he does that makes people call him an idiot, not for someone to say he's an idiot. I've read the decision. Thanks for the link. I understand what his issues were with Eagles management, and I understand their right to suspend/bench him.

But what we saw there was a specific case of him negotiating with Eagles management. Very poorly, as it turns out. But while I don't admire his approach, that doesn't mean he's some uncoachable player that will destroy any locker room on contact.

I don't think anyone is saying that. Right off the bat the players will be very excited about having him on the team and they'll maybe even make the Super Bowl because of him. The bigger problem is his long-term effect on the team. He'll create divisions among the players that like him and don't like him and eventually destroy the team's chemistry. Look at where the Eagles are now and where they were before TO - the whole character of the team is different, and not in a good way. As great of a player as TO is, he's not a team guy - interested in winning, yes - but he doesn't have the best interests of the team and his teammates at heart. Now is it possible that TO will be a model teammate in Dallas, sure, just like it's possible Charlie Manson could be a model citizen if he's released from prison. Not very likely though.

 

[cstu]

It's not?

no, it's not. He explained exactly why his lack of diplomacy was an issue, and you respond with, "So you don't like him because he's not diplomatic."So you're either willfully being obtuse, or..............well, the other option isn't very nice, so I'll leave it there.

I've reread his statement several times now, and the only thing I can think of is that you think I'm saying that what Owens said is OK because he was correct. Let me clear that up. What Owens said about his quarterbacks was wrong. He shouldn't have said bad things about Garcia, and he shouldn't have made his thinly veiled comment about McNabb choking in the Superbowl. I get that.

I just think you know what you're getting with Owens, and part of that is that he says stupid things. Or, as I said, he's not diplomatic. I just don't understand why that's such an inexcusable offense for Owens, when other players have taken far less heat for saying things about their teammates and coaches.

Name some, because I don't know of any player who has insulted his teammates as much as TO and as personally (Garcia gay, McNabb fat and out of shape as well as an Uncle Tom who is a bad QB). Not only that but he shows no real remorse for it either and thinks it's an ok thing to do. Add in that he cares more about getting paid (after one year on a contract) than making sure the Eagles are a good team and you have a guy that is definitely a lockerroom cancer.

 

[bostonfred]

But while I don't admire his approach, that doesn't mean he's some uncoachable player that will destroy any locker room on contact.

I believe he is a player that will at some point be unwelcome in the Cowboys locker room. The only question in my mind is "when?" You don't believe this. Opinions seem to be divided into one view or the other. There really isn't a lot to talk about. Most people have their opinions one way or another, and nobody is changing anybody's mind.Until some actual football events happen, nobody's mind is likely to change, either. He has played no football since the middle of last season. Until training camp, the regular season, the playoffs happen, there's no real events to change people's minds or reinforce their opinions.

We're just re-hashing dead hash until then.

I'm just looking for some kind of fact that leads you to believe this will happen. Did the 49ers run him out of town? Or did they grudgingly trade their best player when he demanded to be traded? Did he cause troubles for the Eagles during his first year there? Or was it only after they refused to renegotiate his contract, and refused to even talk to him if he held out?

Did he make the bad decision to sign the contracts, and take that negotiating stance, on his own? Or did he have bad guidance from his agents?

It seems to me that in all cases, while Owens has made some bad decisions, the majority of what's gone on has been situational. I don't have a lot of love for a player demanding a trade to another team - although I can respect it if they've put their time in with that team like Dillon did.

I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing here that says that Owens is some kind of locker room cancer when these things aren't going on.

 

[gzilla]

Badmouthing teammates publicly.

Badmouthing team management publicly.

Refusing to talk to coaches.

Refusing to practice like others on the team.

Trying to force a trade by disrupting a team.

Those come to mind that he has done. I think he'll do some or all of them again.

If the Cowboys are winning AND he is getting enough passes and TD'S AND if the QB's performance every game meets his expections, I expect he'll be quiet. It's hard to picture all 3 of those lasting. It's hard to picture him doing anything other than what he has done before. Look at all the admirers he has who will stick up for him no matter what he does.

Badmouthing who? Garcia? He actually sucked. A thinly veiled comment about McNabb choking in the Superbowl? What makes you think this would happen with Bledsoe?Badmouthing team management why? Because they refused to negotiate his contract after he set records for the team in his first year? Are the cowboys going to do this?

Refusing to practice, or talk to coaches, why? Because he decided to play instead of holding out? If the Cowboys sign him to a fair market deal, why would that even come up again?

Trying to force a trade why? Because the team refused to pay him like the superstar talent that he is?

I guess you could be nervous that he'll criticize Bledsoe. But Bledsoe's been through a lot, and he's taken more public criticism from his current coach than anything Owens would dish out. He's made every QB he's played with better. McNabb had his career best yards, YPA, TDs, and wins with Owens. And when a scrub CFL guy became the top fantasy QB when he came to the NFL, it turns out it may have had something to do with playing with Owens.

But otherwise, what behavior do you think will repeat?

There is no way that you actually believe what you are saying. If you do, well frankly, you are putting forth a pathetic argument.If Owens time in Dallas is without disruption it is because he has changed...not because his previous antics are overblown.

FYI, I do think there is a decent chance that it could be a good marriage for a year or two.

 

[drummer]

But while I don't admire his approach, that doesn't mean he's some uncoachable player that will destroy any locker room on contact.

I believe he is a player that will at some point be unwelcome in the Cowboys locker room. The only question in my mind is "when?" You don't believe this. Opinions seem to be divided into one view or the other. There really isn't a lot to talk about. Most people have their opinions one way or another, and nobody is changing anybody's mind.Until some actual football events happen, nobody's mind is likely to change, either. He has played no football since the middle of last season. Until training camp, the regular season, the playoffs happen, there's no real events to change people's minds or reinforce their opinions.

We're just re-hashing dead hash until then.

I'm just looking for some kind of fact that leads you to believe this will happen. Did the 49ers run him out of town? Or did they grudgingly trade their best player when he demanded to be traded? Did he cause troubles for the Eagles during his first year there? Or was it only after they refused to renegotiate his contract, and refused to even talk to him if he held out?

Did he make the bad decision to sign the contracts, and take that negotiating stance, on his own? Or did he have bad guidance from his agents?

It seems to me that in all cases, while Owens has made some bad decisions, the majority of what's gone on has been situational. I don't have a lot of love for a player demanding a trade to another team - although I can respect it if they've put their time in with that team like Dillon did.

I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing here that says that Owens is some kind of locker room cancer when these things aren't going on.

I don't think it's anybody's job here to explain to you the obvious . That's your problem .

 

[radballs.]

At 3.03 (35th overall) in the 2006 WSL I draft, I took Owens.

Flat out steal imo.

People rarely change but there is no doubting Owens' ability to change a play, a game, or a team. But just like a marriage, it can be for better or for worse. For Cowboys fans this year, I wish them a good start so that things go relatively smoothly. When T.O.'s on your team, when the going gets tough, the tough create a big mess with the media and his team. There's a lot of angst in this thread and more T.O. haters than I thought there'd be. There's no questioning the fact that the guy is a complete idiot, but his agent didn't do him any favors either.

But, just like teams who were willing to take a look at the potential talent and ability that T.O. brings to the table, a lot of us will be looking to draft him in our FF leagues as well. His apparent "risk" will probably give me the chance to get him in quite a few drafts this year. In ppr leagues, he has no business falling anything below the 20th overall pick.

 

[cstu]

But while I don't admire his approach, that doesn't mean he's some uncoachable player that will destroy any locker room on contact.

I believe he is a player that will at some point be unwelcome in the Cowboys locker room. The only question in my mind is "when?" You don't believe this. Opinions seem to be divided into one view or the other. There really isn't a lot to talk about. Most people have their opinions one way or another, and nobody is changing anybody's mind.Until some actual football events happen, nobody's mind is likely to change, either. He has played no football since the middle of last season. Until training camp, the regular season, the playoffs happen, there's no real events to change people's minds or reinforce their opinions.

We're just re-hashing dead hash until then.

I'm just looking for some kind of fact that leads you to believe this will happen. Did the 49ers run him out of town? Or did they grudgingly trade their best player when he demanded to be traded? Did he cause troubles for the Eagles during his first year there? Or was it only after they refused to renegotiate his contract, and refused to even talk to him if he held out?

Did he make the bad decision to sign the contracts, and take that negotiating stance, on his own? Or did he have bad guidance from his agents?

It seems to me that in all cases, while Owens has made some bad decisions, the majority of what's gone on has been situational. I don't have a lot of love for a player demanding a trade to another team - although I can respect it if they've put their time in with that team like Dillon did.

I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing here that says that Owens is some kind of locker room cancer when these things aren't going on.

I find it hard to believe you are serious about this, but how much do you need to know about him? He played second fiddle to Jerry Rice until Rice was 38 years old. He took credit for Garcia's success despite Garcia being a great QB with or without TO in the lineup (imagine if Gates came out and said that Brees' success was because of him). TO wanted out of SF because he didn't care about the team and wanted to go where he could win since the 49ers were rebuilding. It's the equivalent of Tomlinson demanding to be traded from the Chargers instead of extending his contract after a 4-12 season.

 

[LTDynasty]

Garcia was a great quarterback? It may be splitting hairs but great is high in my mind...as seen when TO was gone and in Detroit.

And on a seperate note...Gates was responsible for Brees' success

 

[radballs.]

But while I don't admire his approach, that doesn't mean he's some uncoachable player that will destroy any locker room on contact.

I believe he is a player that will at some point be unwelcome in the Cowboys locker room. The only question in my mind is "when?" You don't believe this. Opinions seem to be divided into one view or the other. There really isn't a lot to talk about. Most people have their opinions one way or another, and nobody is changing anybody's mind.Until some actual football events happen, nobody's mind is likely to change, either. He has played no football since the middle of last season. Until training camp, the regular season, the playoffs happen, there's no real events to change people's minds or reinforce their opinions.

We're just re-hashing dead hash until then.

I'm just looking for some kind of fact that leads you to believe this will happen. Did the 49ers run him out of town? Or did they grudgingly trade their best player when he demanded to be traded? Did he cause troubles for the Eagles during his first year there? Or was it only after they refused to renegotiate his contract, and refused to even talk to him if he held out?

Did he make the bad decision to sign the contracts, and take that negotiating stance, on his own? Or did he have bad guidance from his agents?

It seems to me that in all cases, while Owens has made some bad decisions, the majority of what's gone on has been situational. I don't have a lot of love for a player demanding a trade to another team - although I can respect it if they've put their time in with that team like Dillon did.

I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing here that says that Owens is some kind of locker room cancer when these things aren't going on.

I find it hard to believe you are serious about this, but how much do you need to know about him? He played second fiddle to Jerry Rice until Rice was 38 years old. He took credit for Garcia's success despite Garcia being a great QB with or without TO in the lineup (imagine if Gates came out and said that Brees' success was because of him). TO wanted out of SF because he didn't care about the team and wanted to go where he could win since the 49ers were rebuilding. It's the equivalent of Tomlinson demanding to be traded from the Chargers instead of extending his contract after a 4-12 season.

Forgive me, but the part in bold ....Are you questioning his ability because he was Rice's second fiddle? I like most of your posts but you can't take anything away from what Owens is able to do on the field.

 

[radballs.]

Garcia was a great quarterback? It may be splitting hairs but great is high in my mind...as seen when TO was gone and in Detroit.

And on a seperate note...Gates was responsible for Brees' success

Who's fault will it be when Rivers isn't as successful though?

 

[LTDynasty]

Garcia was a great quarterback? It may be splitting hairs but great is high in my mind...as seen when TO was gone and in Detroit.

And on a seperate note...Gates was responsible for Brees' success

Who's fault will it be when Rivers isn't as successful though?

Touche.

 

[cstu]

But while I don't admire his approach, that doesn't mean he's some uncoachable player that will destroy any locker room on contact.

I believe he is a player that will at some point be unwelcome in the Cowboys locker room. The only question in my mind is "when?" You don't believe this. Opinions seem to be divided into one view or the other. There really isn't a lot to talk about. Most people have their opinions one way or another, and nobody is changing anybody's mind.Until some actual football events happen, nobody's mind is likely to change, either. He has played no football since the middle of last season. Until training camp, the regular season, the playoffs happen, there's no real events to change people's minds or reinforce their opinions.

We're just re-hashing dead hash until then.

I'm just looking for some kind of fact that leads you to believe this will happen. Did the 49ers run him out of town? Or did they grudgingly trade their best player when he demanded to be traded? Did he cause troubles for the Eagles during his first year there? Or was it only after they refused to renegotiate his contract, and refused to even talk to him if he held out?

Did he make the bad decision to sign the contracts, and take that negotiating stance, on his own? Or did he have bad guidance from his agents?

It seems to me that in all cases, while Owens has made some bad decisions, the majority of what's gone on has been situational. I don't have a lot of love for a player demanding a trade to another team - although I can respect it if they've put their time in with that team like Dillon did.

I'm just wondering if there's something I'm missing here that says that Owens is some kind of locker room cancer when these things aren't going on.

I find it hard to believe you are serious about this, but how much do you need to know about him? He played second fiddle to Jerry Rice until Rice was 38 years old. He took credit for Garcia's success despite Garcia being a great QB with or without TO in the lineup (imagine if Gates came out and said that Brees' success was because of him). TO wanted out of SF because he didn't care about the team and wanted to go where he could win since the 49ers were rebuilding. It's the equivalent of Tomlinson demanding to be traded from the Chargers instead of extending his contract after a 4-12 season.

Forgive me, but the part in bold ....Are you questioning his ability because he was Rice's second fiddle? I like most of your posts but you can't take anything away from what Owens is able to do on the field.

No, I'm not questioning his talent, I'm saying that he takes too much credit for his team's success. Jerry Rice never said the things TO did, despite it probably being true. What I meant about the Rice comment is that he didn't say these things until after Rice was out of the picture and he could hog the spotlight himself. Had Rice been younger TO may have never had the spotlight to become the egomaniac he is now. Sorry if that came out another way.

 

[cstu]

Garcia was a great quarterback? It may be splitting hairs but great is high in my mind...as seen when TO was gone and in Detroit.

And on a seperate note...Gates was responsible for Brees' success

For three years (01-03), yes he was. He was also decent on a terrible Browns team despite being 34. It took him a long time to get to the NFL so the time playing in his prime was short, but there's no question in my mind that he was great during those years.

 

[pettifogger]

Not understanding the defense of Owens here. In his last year at SF he was griping loudly about not getting a long term deal, short arming passes and not even running out patterns where the call wasn't to him. He publicly claimed Mooch purposely tanked a game because he was friends with another coach. He called his OB gay and constantly complained he was not getting the ball enough even when leading the NFL in targets. He got to Philly and had his agent tell the team and the public that he would dog it if they did not renegotiate his contract, and then engaged in a pattern of purposeful disruption of the team to show his displeasure.

I am finding it hard to understand what they guy could do to get some of his defenders to reconsider.

When the suspension happened last year, the local press reported that Coach Nolan asked the players about trying to get Owens back, and they reportedly told him don't do it, he's a team wrecker.

 

[bostonfred]

I find it hard to believe you are serious about this, but how much do you need to know about him? He played second fiddle to Jerry Rice until Rice was 38 years old. He took credit for Garcia's success despite Garcia being a great QB with or without TO in the lineup (imagine if Gates came out and said that Brees' success was because of him).

TO wanted out of SF because he didn't care about the team and wanted to go where he could win since the 49ers were rebuilding. It's the equivalent of Tomlinson demanding to be traded from the Chargers instead of extending his contract after a 4-12 season.

1) In retrospect, who do you think should have taken credit for Garcia's success? I agree that he shouldn't have said things in the media, but let's call a spade a spade here. 2) I understand that Gates shouldn't say it, but he and Tomlinson ARE the reason Brees looked good. 3) Owens shouldn't have said anything, but he didn't tear the locker room apart, either. The team was 10-6 his last year there, and won a playoff game not only on the back of Owens' 9 catches for 177 yards and 2 TDs, but his fiery halftime speech when he told them they could come back. So while I understand he said some bad things in the media, but they didn't seem to hurt the team he was playing for at the time. And it's not like he ripped the locker room apart while he was playing there - the team made the playoffs both years he was there.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

If Owens time in Dallas is without disruption it is because he has changed...not because his previous antics are overblown.

I don't see how a person could read the arbitrator's opinion (cataloging all the ways in which TO was a jerk) and disagree with gzilla's statement.

 

[pettifogger]

I find it hard to believe you are serious about this, but how much do you need to know about him?  He played second fiddle to Jerry Rice until Rice was 38 years old.  He took credit for Garcia's success despite Garcia being a great QB with or without TO in the lineup (imagine if Gates came out and said that Brees' success was because of him). 

TO wanted out of SF because he didn't care about the team and wanted to go where he could win since the 49ers were rebuilding.  It's the equivalent of Tomlinson demanding to be traded from the Chargers instead of extending his contract after a 4-12 season.

1) In retrospect, who do you think should have taken credit for Garcia's success? I agree that he shouldn't have said things in the media, but let's call a spade a spade here. 2) I understand that Gates shouldn't say it, but he and Tomlinson ARE the reason Brees looked good. 3) Owens shouldn't have said anything, but he didn't tear the locker room apart, either. The team was 10-6 his last year there, and won a playoff game not only on the back of Owens' 9 catches for 177 yards and 2 TDs, but his fiery halftime speech when he told them they could come back. So while I understand he said some bad things in the media, but they didn't seem to hurt the team he was playing for at the time. And it's not like he ripped the locker room apart while he was playing there - the team made the playoffs both years he was there.

Jeff Garcia was selected to the Pro Bowl three times. Why shouldn't he get credit for that? Why should we assume he was selected soley because he had TO to throw to, and no one else realized it? I can only say, as a 49ers fan, that he was reported throughout his tenure here to be a constant headache to the team management and fellow players, and in the end even his unquestionable talent was not enough for the team to think it was worth keeping him.

I expect him to be on good behavior for a short period of time in Dallas but eventually his personality will wear on that team too.

 

[cstu]

I find it hard to believe you are serious about this, but how much do you need to know about him? He played second fiddle to Jerry Rice until Rice was 38 years old. He took credit for Garcia's success despite Garcia being a great QB with or without TO in the lineup (imagine if Gates came out and said that Brees' success was because of him).

TO wanted out of SF because he didn't care about the team and wanted to go where he could win since the 49ers were rebuilding. It's the equivalent of Tomlinson demanding to be traded from the Chargers instead of extending his contract after a 4-12 season.

1) In retrospect, who do you think should have taken credit for Garcia's success? I agree that he shouldn't have said things in the media, but let's call a spade a spade here. 2) I understand that Gates shouldn't say it, but he and Tomlinson ARE the reason Brees looked good. 3) Owens shouldn't have said anything, but he didn't tear the locker room apart, either. The team was 10-6 his last year there, and won a playoff game not only on the back of Owens' 9 catches for 177 yards and 2 TDs, but his fiery halftime speech when he told them they could come back. So while I understand he said some bad things in the media, but they didn't seem to hurt the team he was playing for at the time. And it's not like he ripped the locker room apart while he was playing there - the team made the playoffs both years he was there.

As a Patriots fan, I'm confused at your attitude towards Owens. When the Patriots won their first Super Bowl, would you have thought it was ok if Troy Brown came out and took credit for Brady's success after he caught 100 passes during the season and was a star in the playoffs? Would they have won two more Super Bowls after that?Whether a team wins doesn't mean the attitude of the players is healthy. Gates could easily have come out after 2004 and taken credit for the Chargers success and the Chargers may have still went 9-7, but the team would not be the close-knit group that it is right now.

 

[faulkfan]

Owens put his needs at the forefront of all others (demand for a bigger contract), destroyed any hope of creating an "us vs them" mindset (refusing to adhere to the rules and norms that every other player on the Eagles adhered to, such as bringing his playbook to, or paying attention in, meetings), and did all in his power to prevent any semblance of cohesion (attacking McNabb and management because he was unhappy about his contract).

This is what is meant by a "team cancer" and this fits Owens to a "T".

This is fair. Owens handled his contract renegotiations poorly. I agree. He was deliberately disruptive, in lieu of holding out. In the meantime, he contributed to the team winning twice as many games in the seven games he played as they did during the nine games he didn't, so it's not like he was dragging the team down singlehandedly.

If performance on the field were the only thing necessary for winning then Owens would be fine, but as long as his insecurities require him to be in the public eye, he will always be a problem for whatever team he plays for.

Now we're getting somewhere. Do you think Parcells will help him to work with the media? I do.

He is the epitomy of ignorance as evidenced by his willingness to forego the opportunity to win a Super Bowl with a contending team and the associated wealth of endorsements that accompany that. 

He chose Philadelphia, and tried to renegotiate. Philadelphia played hardball, Owens tried to respond in kind, but with poor planning and execution, and Philadelphia put an end to it. Now he's signing with a contender. How does that mean he's foregoing a Superbowl opportunity?

Instead he alienates himself from fans and sponsors leaving his only income option from his salary.  Additionally, he allowed his ego to listen to the siren song of an even bigger ego maniac to get to this point.

Or he's just not that business savvy. For someone as dumb as you seem to think he is, I'm surprised that you think his giant ego was the problem and won't give him the benefit of the doubt that he was manipulated by two agents in a row.

Your opinion is that as long as what he says has even the slightest chance of being correct, that he deserves the benefit of the doubt. 

That's not my opinion.

I disagree.  A large part of his idiocy is his complete inability to execise any diplomacy whatsoever in virtually every situation.  I can say that you are a moron, and perhaps there are times that you are indeed a moron, but this doesn't make the method I used to state my opinion, nor the accuracy of my statement valid merely because there is a chance I could be right.

OK, so you don't like him because he's not diplomatic. Is that the standard you hold all players to?

The good news for everyone who watches the NFL is that he'll only play 12 games before getting hurt and then we can forget about him until he starts squawking in the off season.  Also, at 32 he shouldn't be around much longer.  I personally can hardly wait until he goes over the middle against the Eagles the first time.  I hope they ring his bell like the Hunchback of Notre Dame.  That's my opinion, and just like TO, I deserve the benefit of the doubt.

Glad to see you took the high road. Stay classy!

Interesting that I am held to a higher standard than TO. He said much worse than I did in a much larger forum and you choose to defend his actions as misunderstood. Yet I state an opinion on a small fantasy football board with absolutely no media attention and I am castigated for it and expected to "stay classy." Why not hold Owens to this standard? Why is classlessness okay for him?As for diplomacy, it is a necessary tool for human interaction. By choosing not to use it Owens simply supports my contention that he is ignorant.

 

[pettifogger]

Here's the arbitrator's opinion incidentally

 

[Fla\/\/ed]

You can take the TO out of tool but you can't take the tool out of TO.

 

[Sea Bass]

Once a star player joins your favorite team all past actions are justifiable?

 

[cstu]

You can take the TO out of tool but you can't take the tool out of TO.

 

[JohnnyU]

You can take the TO out of tool but you can't take the tool out of TO.

Great Posting