Can you explain why you have faith in your religion? (1 Viewer)

[The Commish]

Why is this crap in this thread....should be in the atheist thread IMO.

 

[Henry Ford]

Why is this crap in this thread....should be in the atheist thread IMO.

Shouldn't be anywhere, but here we are.

 

[The Commish]

Why is this crap in this thread....should be in the atheist thread IMO.

Shouldn't be anywhere, but here we are.

touche....figured that one was already off the tracks but this one corrected itself despite some blatant fishing, so keep digging over there and let this one be.

 

[johnjohn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r83ROf8coSU this link exposes atheists for having belief/faith just like religious people.

So, in my belief I find comfort, just like in an atheists belief they find comfort. Its all about comfort more than anything

For religious people it probably is. For atheists it's most certainly not.I would argue atheists are more honest, both intellectually and with themselves, and they are more willing to face harder truths.

I would disagree on the basis most atheists consider evolution theory a fact (intellectually dishonest) and they look down on religious people for having beliefs (hypocrites)

By the way, did you bother to watch my video?

I watched the first 4 minutes. It was beyond ignorant.

how was it ignorant ? Because you say it is ignorant doesn't make it so

 

[timschochet]

Tommygunz did not write that the video was ignorant. He wrote, correctly, that it was beyond ignorant. Ignorance would be a compliment by comparison.

 

[johnjohn]

Tommygunz did not write that the video was ignorant. He wrote, correctly, that it was beyond ignorant. Ignorance would be a compliment by comparison.

tim I would bet you didn't watch the entire video, or even most of it, and I would be shocked if you even watched a minute of it.

 

[Henry Ford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r83ROf8coSU this link exposes atheists for having belief/faith just like religious people.

So, in my belief I find comfort, just like in an atheists belief they find comfort. Its all about comfort more than anything

For religious people it probably is. For atheists it's most certainly not.I would argue atheists are more honest, both intellectually and with themselves, and they are more willing to face harder truths.

I would disagree on the basis most atheists consider evolution theory a fact (intellectually dishonest) and they look down on religious people for having beliefs (hypocrites)By the way, did you bother to watch my video?

I watched the first 4 minutes. It was beyond ignorant.

how was it ignorant ? Because you say it is ignorant doesn't make it so

Because it displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the concepts of faith and science and conflates belief with evidence with belief without evidence. For instance, I believe I had a bottle of wine earlier. Is it possible that's not true? Sure. It's possible that my memory is messed up, or I'm crazy, or I'm simply wrong for some reason. But it's based on the evidence - I remember drinking a bottle of wine, I have a dirty glass, and there's an empty bottle in the recycling bin.I also believe that thousands of people have had bottles from the same winery. Can I prove that? Well, that depends on what you mean. I will never personally see thousands of people drink bottles from that same winery. But given the sales of that winery, and the number of people who drink wine, and the statistics kept for people who visited that winery and signed its guest book, while there is technically a chance that thousands of people did not drink wines from that winery, it would be such a statistical anomaly that it makes less sense to disbelieve it than to believe it. By a lot. Meaning - just because each individual instance of a person drinking a bottle from that winery cannot be verified by a person, that doesn't mean it's unscientific to believe it. And it's not "belief" in the sense of "faith."

 

[proninja]

Oof

 

[datonn]

Datonn: and I don't mean this rudely, and I'm not questioning your experience. Do you find that people who are religious believe in your experience or think you had a psychological issue? And do you ever wonder if what happened to you was 'evil' or a psychological/psychiatric issue?

I've often wondered - especially as someone prone to panic attacks - if that feeling of dread and awfulness would present itself differently to me if I were religious or if it's something very different that feels 'evil.'. And even more I wonder why believers don't jump at these experiences and day it's the devil, but rather say it's a psychiatric episode. Just seeing if that was your experience or if you got support for your interpretation from the religious people you know.

Hey Henry Ford. No rude intent taken. Before I reply, some statistics:

1. Between 74 and 92 percent of Americans believe in God...depending upon the polls you believe.

2. Roughly 81 percent of Americans believe in some sort of after-life. 76% of individuals believe in heaven, while 71% of individuals believe in hell.

3. 45 percent of Americans believe in ghosts, or that the spirits of dead people can come back in certain places and situations.

With that as a back-drop, about half of people who are religious and believe in an afterlife believe in ghosts/spirits. The other half, along with the ~19% of people who don't believe in any sort of after-life? Think folks like me are completely cuckoo for cocoa puffs. But the only time I have ever heard anyone who knows me and/or has heard of, or even experienced, similar things and referred to "it" as psychological issues would be right here in the FFA. Armchair QBs who like to judge and ridicule things they do not understand from hundreds of miles away, behind a keyboard.

Now, I will also say that probably 97-98% of people thinking they might have seen/heard something are simply being "nervous Nellies," or have an active imagination, or are prone to things such as panic attacks, or ??? But anytime anyone uses words such as "always" and "never," it is pretty-much guaranteed that they are either close-minded, scared, judgmental (insecurities presenting themselves falsely as confidence/arrogance), or have blinders restricting a lot of their peripheral vision. Multiple answers are appropriate too...as some people bat .500-1.000 when it comes to that sort of stuff.

Politics. Religion. Women. Whatever. Anybody who will tell you that they've got it 100% figured out, and that their world is black and white as a result, is an intellectual/spiritual guppy swimming in a puddle or a tiny pond. While the universe is a vast ocean, so much bigger than we can even imagine.

 

[datonn]

datonn - your post describes something like chronic hallucinatory psychosis. You've talked in the past about stuff from your childhood, I think to have these types of demonic hallucinations would be about right for someone dealing with something like this who grew up in a super religious home. There are all kinds of things that could trigger an episode. Most of the time someone dealing with these types of disorders would be asymptomatic so you'd have to believe that what you're seeing is real because you're otherwise fine. I have no doubt you believe you saw that thing in the bathroom but it's no divine coincidence that as soon as you pulled back from religion that these occurrences have slowed. Thanks for sharing that post, it's interesting stuff. I'm guessing it would take a lot these for something to trigger an episode for you now. It would be fascinating to see if the episodes returned if you got back in deep with the church. I'm not a doctor but I'd guess it would be possible they could. I know this post is frustrating to read because you know what you saw. Sorry about that.

Hey Nipsey! Thanks for that post. Very thoughtful and respectful...even though I know it all sounds impossible to believe.

FWIW, my experiences as a child (1970s-1980s) were more having information "delivered" to me when I would walk into certain places, or in my dreams. i.e. Freaking my mom out because I would wake up upset...asking her where the jumbo-jet crashed this morning, then them turning on the news to see that hundreds had died in a DC-10 crash in Chicago. Almost think of it like having someone slip a Flash drive into your "USB port" and upload information that you would really have no way of otherwise knowing. It was my sister who would have audible, visual interactions with spirits. I never saw a "ghost" as a kid (though I would "feel" presences I could not see/hear), never sensed any "evil" per se (not 0.1% like I described in my other post), and quite frankly thought my sister was "poco loco." Then college happened, and everything changed.

Also, FWIW, I would not say I grew up in a "super religious home." We prayed before dinner. My parents taught Sunday School and Vacation Bible School. But we weren't what I would call super-religious...as it was more social/communal than anything. My mom would say prayers with us when we were very young (again...didn't want her kids to "burn in hell"), but by the time I was in Junior High? Other than mumbling a quick prayer at dinner and going to church on Sunday morning, that was about the extent of "Christianity" in our home.

 

[Balance]

 

[cstu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r83ROf8coSU this link exposes atheists for having belief/faith just like religious people.

So, in my belief I find comfort, just like in an atheists belief they find comfort. Its all about comfort more than anything

For religious people it probably is. For atheists it's most certainly not.I would argue atheists are more honest, both intellectually and with themselves, and they are more willing to face harder truths.

I would disagree on the basis most atheists consider evolution theory a fact (intellectually dishonest) and they look down on religious people for having beliefs (hypocrites)

By the way, did you bother to watch my video?

Did you bother to watch mine: What Darwin Never Knew

 

[flapgreen]

Way to many coincidences in my life for there to be no God.

 

[Otis]

Way to many coincidences in my life for there to be no God.

Does the Bible talk about coincidences? Can't those be attributable to someone or something other than your particular God? Maybe a glitch in the matrix like that cat that walked by Neo twice? Or what happened in that Eternal Sunshine movie?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Jesus is the only one who really provides hope and Judaism laid the ground work for his coming. Most organized religions have piled on so much legalism on Christ, which is pretty ridiculous seeing that Jesus was completely anti-legalism. I don't see how anyone can make it to heaven through Islam. It is the most condemning religion there is. Of course many will consider that hate speech, but i see it as an inherently oppressive religion which can never get out of the dark ages.

As a casual / armchair Buddhist, I'm not very familiar with Islam, but I understand there is a sect (Sufi?) that is very non-dogmatic and more concerned with questions of right behavior, forgiveness, compassion, etc.

I suppose I find your characterization of one of the other "big 3" Abrahamic religions as offensive and small-minded, but typical of the 3 way culture war between Christianity, Judaism and Islam that permeates the world, litters our history books with blood and limited my own personal exploration into spirituality for decades.

What does your characterization of Islam have to do with your relationship with Jesus? Does the Savior want the Saved to arrive at his doorstep via a signpost that says "certain death 5 miles" and points to Islam, and another signpost that says "if you don't follow this path you will burn in eternity" and points to Christianity? Do you believe this in your heart? It's ok if you do...I just don't understand it, and perceive it to be a very small box to try to fit "God" in.

Do you pre-suppose there are no "good" Muslims? Or that there are good "Muslims" who are simply deluded in their "current spirituality"? Perhaps it is you who is deluded.

Perhaps I've got it all wrong, and there really is one and only one path to Him. But I don't see anything positive coming from your "insight" into Islam.

 

[caabeel]

Eternal hellfire....not a Bible teaching....

But a religious one.

And, yes, it is a Bible teaching, just not necessarily for humans.

Agreed, human teaching.....not what the Bible teaches. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Tiger Fan]

Interesting. I don't think a church visit is for me, I'll likely be a non-believer for good. But you never know.

If there was a pill you could take that would make you believe 100% that if you followed a few rules on earth you would then end up in heaven for eternal bliss after you died, would you take that pill? I would. To go through life and be completely convinced that I was only decades away from paradise where I could do windmill dunks, fly, etc, that would be an incredible way to live. Life would be so much less stressful. Who cares if I didn't get that job? I'm 50 years away or less from pure joy in a place where everything is perfect. Why really worry about anything? As long as I pass the big guy's test, nothing else matters. I'll be reunited with everyone who's died before me, my parents, my pets, everyone. I'd take that pill in a heartbeat.

I know what people are thinking. You don't even need a pill, you just need to have faith. Well that's where the problems come in for non-believers. For me at least, I'd have to engage in a certain amount of intellectual dishonesty in order to believe my consciousness would carry on after I died. The bible was written however long ago by people who had a remedial understanding of the body/science. When someone died it was thought the "soul" left the body. We know now that reality is perceived or consciousness exists in our brains and if our brains are damaged then how we perceive the world is altered. (There's a video where sam harris explains this better than I can.) That's what i can never get past, that when we die, when our brain ceases to work that somehow our consciousnesses would carry on without it and carry on in perfect condition. That's the part I can never get past. It doesn't make any sense. To blow past that and say i have faith that consciousness somehow will carry on in a place we've never seen is just too great a leap. Happy Easter!

eta here's that video. only 2 minutes. sums it up much better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDcZkrl-eoY

what a great post, S. You basically took everything that's in my mind but put it in words that I couldn't.

 

[Henry Ford]

Eternal hellfire....not a Bible teaching....

But a religious one.

And, yes, it is a Bible teaching, just not necessarily for humans.

Agreed, human teaching.....not what the Bible teaches. Thanks for the correction.

I have no idea if you're actually agreeing with me or not here, but you're welcome.

 

[matuski]

Way to many coincidences in my life for there to be no God.

I can see this as explanation for you to choose to have faith, but not a reason for you to choose one god over another.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

On that note, Apologetics is probably my least favorite part of Christianity. (For anyone that is about that word, Apologetics is a weird word I think. It's basically the study of "defending" or debating the doctrine. I guess it can be any doctrine or topic but it seems like it's mostly used for religion)

"We can inspire others through witness so that one grows together in communicating. But the worst thing of all is religious proselytism, which paralyzes: 'I am talking with you in order to persuade you,' No. Each person dialogues, starting with his and her own identity. The church grows by attraction, not proselytizing." -- Pope Francis

 

[proninja]

On that note, Apologetics is probably my least favorite part of Christianity. (For anyone that is about that word, Apologetics is a weird word I think. It's basically the study of "defending" or debating the doctrine. I guess it can be any doctrine or topic but it seems like it's mostly used for religion)

"We can inspire others through witness so that one grows together in communicating. But the worst thing of all is religious proselytism, which paralyzes: 'I am talking with you in order to persuade you,' No. Each person dialogues, starting with his and her own identity. The church grows by attraction, not proselytizing." -- Pope Francis

My fundamentalist friends aren't going to like that quote. Link so I can send it to them?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

It's in paragraph number nine of the "Pope Francis" link (above).

 

[proninja]

Ah. The link I totally missed. Thanks.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

More good stuff (IMO) from Pope Francis.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

I love that the guy in Miami has a Tiki Hut. For then Jesus said, take of me this Mai Tai, for it is my blood.

 

[joffer]

I love this Pope

 

[Ned]

Interesting. I don't think a church visit is for me, I'll likely be a non-believer for good. But you never know.

If there was a pill you could take that would make you believe 100% that if you followed a few rules on earth you would then end up in heaven for eternal bliss after you died, would you take that pill? I would. To go through life and be completely convinced that I was only decades away from paradise where I could do windmill dunks, fly, etc, that would be an incredible way to live. Life would be so much less stressful. Who cares if I didn't get that job? I'm 50 years away or less from pure joy in a place where everything is perfect. Why really worry about anything? As long as I pass the big guy's test, nothing else matters. I'll be reunited with everyone who's died before me, my parents, my pets, everyone. I'd take that pill in a heartbeat. I know what people are thinking. You don't even need a pill, you just need to have faith. Well that's where the problems come in for non-believers. For me at least, I'd have to engage in a certain amount of intellectual dishonesty in order to believe my consciousness would carry on after I died. The bible was written however long ago by people who had a remedial understanding of the body/science. When someone died it was thought the "soul" left the body. We know now that reality is perceived or consciousness exists in our brains and if our brains are damaged then how we perceive the world is altered. (There's a video where sam harris explains this better than I can.) That's what i can never get past, that when we die, when our brain ceases to work that somehow our consciousnesses would carry on without it and carry on in perfect condition. That's the part I can never get past. It doesn't make any sense. To blow past that and say i have faith that consciousness somehow will carry on in a place we've never seen is just too great a leap. Happy Easter!

eta here's that video. only 2 minutes. sums it up much better.

Wow, me too.