Carson Palmer..can he still be a top 10-12 QB? (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

What gives with Palmer. I watched much of the Cinci game and Palmer just does not have the same zip on his throws. Many of his throws were high and seemed to sail on him. Owens was wide open a couple of times and he could not get the ball to him.

I really thought that Palmer was going to have a very solid season, after watching him close I am not too sure anymore. Seems like the knee injury is still in his head when throwing.

 

[drfeelgood]

Seems like the knee injury is still in his head when throwing.

Maybe his elbow is still not 100%.

 

[Da Guru]

Seems like the knee injury is still in his head when throwing.

Maybe his elbow is still not 100%.

Something is wrong.

 

[cvnpoka]

pretty sure at this point, he is what he is. i dont think his elbow/arm is every gonna return to prior form. at this point, he is a very good game manager, but not the guy you want to rely on to make plays to win the game.

 

[odin33]

I still think he hears footsteps, even when they aren't there.

 

[road warrior]

You must be listening to Cecil and his 'kissing Palmers ####' segments.

The guy hasn't been good for a long while now. Still not sure what others still see in him. Yeah, if he gets behind by 30 points, he'll have some value.... about it.

 

[Captain Hook]

Still be? When was the last time he was?

He is not a QB1 unless you are in a sixteen team league; might work in a QBBC based on matchups (vs good run D and terrible pass D)

 

[We Tigers]

Owens and Ocho are getting tons of targets...but they're nominally targets at best. I caught most of the game, and Palmer missed Owens by 5 yards in the end zone a couple times, and had Chad wide open for another one that he missed. Really don't know what to think about Palmer right now, but I'll give him this stretch of games against lesser competition before I write him off completely. The Ravens are pretty tough. That said, he's probably not breaking into the top 10-12 unless he really gets it together.

 

[LarryAllen'sJockstrap]

Still be? When was the last time he was?He is not a QB1 unless you are in a sixteen team league; might work in a QBBC based on matchups (vs good run D and terrible pass D)

From 2005-2007 he averaged 400 yards and 29TDs.08 he was injured and only played 4 games. Last season, his numbers were WAY down across the board. I think a lot of people were expecting him to rebound to his 05-07 form. Through the first two games this season, it sure doesn't look like it.

 

[bcat01]

Watched the game and his footwork was very poor. Most of the throws he was not set. When he missed Chad in the endzone he said he saw the defender fall, but could not see Chad due to a defender rushing him so he just threw it to a spot he thought Chad might be. Carson always owns up to his mistakes so I believe him. I am hoping it is not the elbow, but it definetly could be. On the throw to Chad he did have a lot of zip on it so at least that was a plus.

 

[fsufan]

to me he has not been the same since the knee injury

 

[ROBOPUNTER]

I still think he hears footsteps, even when they aren't there.

wouldn't be surprised after the cheap shot Kimo gave him

 

[whodeywhodey]

I have been trying to withhold judgment but I think Palmer's days of being in the top 10 are over.

This is a run team. They have a tough schedule. Palmer will be average at best which puts him in the QB2 range.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Watched every snap this past weekend and he looked terrible. No passes down the field and it wasn't that Baltimore was rushing the QB or getting a ton of pressure, they weren't, in fact they were exhausted after the MNF game with the Jets.

If he is your QB1 in redrafts you could be in trouble.

 

[notdarkyet]

No. Not top 12. He feels pressure when it isn't there, doesnt step into throws, he is a psychological wreck. I don't buy that it is physical at all. The last couple seasons if he audibled, it was a given it was a run. He finally audibled to a couple passes on this season, which was nice, but he really doesnt have the confidence you need out of a supposed franchise QB. The Bengals need to start thinking about life after Palmer, because they wont ever have life with the Palmer who was worth a damn again.

 

[Power Monster]

No- not at all. He looks like a guy that cannot answer the bell on being a top 12 QB. I own him and he is my starter but I am looking at other options including a trade to get in better consistency. I was convinced when he missed a wide open Ocho in the end zone by a wide margin in the Raven game.

 

[the rover]

I drafted him to use in a QBBC with Eli Manning, but I'm thinking of replacing him with Josh Freeman (after this stretch of panthers/browns/bucs).

 

[Da Guru]

Watched every snap this past weekend and he looked terrible. No passes down the field and it wasn't that Baltimore was rushing the QB or getting a ton of pressure, they weren't, in fact they were exhausted after the MNF game with the Jets. If he is your QB1 in redrafts you could be in trouble.

I agree, it seems like Palmer has a mental block about getting hit and does not stride into the throw anymore.

 

[PinkydaPimp]

Wow are people really that down on palmer? I drafted him as my qb2 with upside. So far, he hasn't shown much. However, he has faced some tough defenses thus far. I am waiting a few more weeks to see how he does.

 

[Ghost Rider]

He looked awful in preseason, so I put him around 18-20 on most of my QB lists for my drafts. In other words, I didn't touch him. He just isn't the thrower he used to be, and having another weapon in Owens won't matter if you can't get the ball to him. Like week 1, he can probably put up good numbers in games the Bengals are losing by a lot, garbage time stuff, but in close games, of which they will probably have a lot of, no thanks.

I will put it this way: If I am playing someone who has Carson Palmer as their starting QB, I am excited.

 

[Happy Ragnarok]

I think I was one of the loudest voices in the preseason crying that he's totally lost his fastball, and shouldn't be relied upon as one of those late round flyers with a chance to carry you to a title...

But top 10-12? Down on him or not, I've got to think that's at least possible.

He's got a ton of great targets out there, and I only see about 8 or 9 guys I see as slam dunks to stay above him if healthy. Those 9, 10, 11, 12 type spots are going to be filled with guys in the 4000/25 range, and that's certainly not impossible.

So can he? I'd have to say yeah. But I don't see him as any safer bet than about a dozen other guys. There's probably not enough between him and like a Josh Freeman or whoever to distinguish based on anything better than who you'd rather root for.

 

[sbfs]

Arm strength is overrated. Just need time to throw.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Arm strength is overrated.

True, but accuracy is not, and Palmer looks erratic way too much nowadays. His accuracy isn't what it used to be.

 

[cvnpoka]

really, his arm strength looks pretty good to me. but hes inaccurate when he trys to zip it in there, and they esp tend to sail.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

 

[curta269]

He did not look good again today. In fact, he didn't look any better than Claussen, and it was his first NFL start. I don't think this guy can even be a top 20 QB any more.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I traded for T.O. simply because he was getting tons of targets...but Palmer looks unbelievably awful. His throws have no zip to them and even his accuracy looks questionable. He looks like a crappy version of Shaun Hill.

He's bottom ten qb in the NFL right now.

 

[SteelerMurf]

He stinks. Always had outside of one really good year.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Steelers fan, eh?

 

[doowain]

What gives with Palmer. I watched much of the Cinci game and Palmer just does not have the same zip on his throws. Many of his throws were high and seemed to sail on him. Owens was wide open a couple of times and he could not get the ball to him.I really thought that Palmer was going to have a very solid season, after watching him close I am not too sure anymore. Seems like the knee injury is still in his head when throwing.

The problem with his balls was not "zip". His accuracy was off.There were several things attributing to it. Rainy conditions, receivers not finishing routes, etc....as well as Carson just making bad throws.They showed a field level view of his throw on the slant in the end zone to Andre Caldwell. That ball was moving pretty good.That all being said.....Carson does not look good at all. The offense just looks out of sorts all together. Whether it's presnap penalties, dropped balls, or whatever....they just don't look very good at all. One thing I can't seem to grasp though is why are we throwing the ball so much? Feed Ced the rock and bring in Bernard Scott to give him a blow (enough of this Brian Leonard stuff). Bratkowski continues to baffle me with his decisions.

 

[BoulderBob]

Carson lost his "sack", for lack of a better term/description...some call it confidence, you can call "it" whaterver you want. But something isn't right in Carson's HEAD. He still has the tools to be a top 5 QB, but he lost something during/after that fateful playoff game, and it's been quite sad to watch, I don't know what his contract situation looks like(meaning are they stuck with him due to a huge signing bonus owed to him over the next five years?) but if he doesn't improve this season, the Bengals would be wise to explore other options. He may just not want to play the game anymore, for a plethora of reasons, and is no longer willing to sacrifice himself/his body for a few bucks. One thing is certain, and that is that it is not fun to watch Palmer and the Bengals anymore. Maybe he just needs to take a prozac/xanax/anti0anxiety medicine before the game, it's worth a shot, as I believe his problem is ALL mental...

 

[SteelerMurf]

or maybe he is just another sucky USC QB

 

[BoulderBob]

or maybe he is just another sucky USC QB

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PalmCa00.htmcheck his stats for thr '05 and '06 seasons...his "sophomore/junior" seasons in the NFL. Guy was on pace to be on the same level as Tom Brady and Peyton Manning...and then the injury/somethig else in his life/whatever/etc...screwed with his head. He is probably a head-case, and luckily for Bengals fans, sometimes confidence issues can be fixed. Or, he got paid, and doesn't give a damn anymore...

Did he ever injure his throwing arm? If he did, that could play a part as well, but imo, it's all in his head...he needs to remember how to be the man...he is SHANE FALCO personified...

 

[omally]

Did he ever injure his throwing arm?

He hurt his elbow.

 

[cvnpoka]

He stinks. Always had outside of one really good year.

actually 3 very good years. but close enough.

 

[zoonation]

Palmer looks terrible. He can't get the ball down field with any zip or accuracy. If he doesn't turn it around they have no chance, title wise. I think his arm is done. Time for surgery.

Just picture Vick on that team.....

 

[identikit]

Is Palmer the problem with stagnant passing game?

Posted: September 28th, 2010 | Frank Tadych

Winning "ugly" might not be enough for the 2-1 Cincinnati Bengals.

As the Bengals offense continues to sputter, the reasons why remain a mystery. A lack of answers and a sense of bubbling frustration recently led to an annoyed head coach Marvin Lewis, who had to defend QB Carson Palmer after a volley of questions over the offensive concerns.

"Not too many teams have to make excuses for winning like that, but I guess we do. So we'll just move forward, and I'll say little, our players will say less, and that's the way it will be."

As it stands, Palmer is in the eye of the firestorm. Offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski acknowledged Palmer "didn't play well" against the Panthers but said he needed more help from the offense around him. Geoff Hobson called it Palmer's worst passing day in two years during an extended look at the ongoing issues.

Although we haven't heard a peep from Chad Ochocinco or Terrell Owens, last week it was Cedric Benson who voiced frustration (per Joe Reedy) over the offense deviating from what worked last season.

Whew. Just think if the Bengals were 0-3.

This was supposed to be the season Palmer had no excuses after adding a bevy of weapons. So does he? Is the problem with the Bengals' offense … Palmer?

Although Lewis told reporters he doesn't have any concerns about Palmer, one voice at the NFL Network — Michael Lombardi — says he's does.

"You watch the tape, there are huge concerns with Carson Palmer," Lombardi said. "He's not nearly the player he was three years ago. His arm doesn't seem to have the same zip to it. He doesn't have the accuracy with the football, and he's not as explosive. Right now he's a liability in the Cincinnati offense."

Maybe Palmer isn't, or no longer is, who we thought he was. Maybe the problems hide elsewhere. It doesn't appear to be panic-button time in Cincinnati, but we'll continue to take the temperature of this story as Lewis circles the wagons around his quarterback.

– Frank Tadych

http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/09/28/is-palmer-...agnant-offense/

 

[the rover]

Gave up on him. Dropped him outright. Going with Mark Sanchez and Eli Manning as a QBBC.

 

[YouthofToday]

Palmer has lost significant zip on his throws and should have been picked at least 5 more times in the last 3 weeks. I wouldn't even put him any where near the top 20 QBs for a NFL or fantasy franchise. The Bengals are going to have to address the QB position in the offseason baring some miraculous, unprecedented gain in velocity.

If I remember correctly Palmer decided not to get TJ surgery in 2008, opting for rehab instead. Clearly I am not a doctor yet one would have to speculate that perhaps his elbow is far from structurally sound and he made the wrong decision.

 

[Godsbrother]

Maybe Palmer isn't, or no longer is, who we thought he was. Maybe the problems hide elsewhere. It doesn't appear to be panic-button time in Cincinnati, but we'll continue to take the temperature of this story as Lewis circles the wagons around his quarterback.

What good would it do to push the panic button? It is not like they have anyone behind Palmer that is a viable alternative.

 

[Shutout]

I think he's generally the victim of his own earlier success. he was SO good for a few years that he was in the Brady/Manning circle and now people tend to over criticize him.

Yes, he's fallen, but he's not fallen anywhere near as much as people make it out to be. All the comments are "no zip, no accuracy, can't do anything, no confidence", etc. those are comments we should use to talk about guys like Clausen and Cassell and Campbell. Not Palmer. For FF purposes, at least, whatever he has, its good enough to be in the same tier as McNabb, Eli, Sanchez and slightly above guys like Flacco.

So, in a 12 team league you can flip a coin and make him a starter (or McNabb, Eli, etc).

In a 16 team league, he is a starter that you can get that is just as good as the 3 or 4 guys taken above him but you can probably get him much cheaper.

In any league, he is an ideal backup plan. In FF terms, he may not set the world on fire like he used to but he's not going to kill you like a Garrard or Cassell might.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think he's generally the victim of his own earlier success. he was SO good for a few years that he was in the Brady/Manning circle and now people tend to over criticize him. Yes, he's fallen, but he's not fallen anywhere near as much as people make it out to be. All the comments are "no zip, no accuracy, can't do anything, no confidence", etc. those are comments we should use to talk about guys like Clausen and Cassell and Campbell. Not Palmer. For FF purposes, at least, whatever he has, its good enough to be in the same tier as McNabb, Eli, Sanchez and slightly above guys like Flacco.

Have you seen him play lately? It is shocking how far he has fallen. He is terribly inaccurate now.

 

[VaTerp]

I think he's generally the victim of his own earlier success. he was SO good for a few years that he was in the Brady/Manning circle and now people tend to over criticize him.

Yes, he's fallen, but he's not fallen anywhere near as much as people make it out to be. All the comments are "no zip, no accuracy, can't do anything, no confidence", etc. those are comments we should use to talk about guys like Clausen and Cassell and Campbell. Not Palmer. For FF purposes, at least, whatever he has, its good enough to be in the same tier as McNabb, Eli, Sanchez and slightly above guys like Flacco.

So, in a 12 team league you can flip a coin and make him a starter (or McNabb, Eli, etc).

In a 16 team league, he is a starter that you can get that is just as good as the 3 or 4 guys taken above him but you can probably get him much cheaper.

In any league, he is an ideal backup plan. In FF terms, he may not set the world on fire like he used to but he's not going to kill you like a Garrard or Cassell might.

Have you watched him play this year?Yes, Palmer was/is held to a higher standard than a lot of other QBs because of his past success and the talent that he displayed before his injury issues. But when you watch him play now you see a QB with NO zip, NO accuracy, and those things tend to lead to a lack of confidence.

For FF, I would not put him in the same tier as Eli or even Flacco. And the only reason I would put him in the same tier with McNabb is because of the weapons he has and McNabb doesn't. You say we talk about him like Clausen, Casselll, and Campbell. Well, if Palmer was on the Panthers, Chiefs, or Raiders I think he would be look about as bad as those guys. HE ACTUALLY HAD A LOWER QB RATING THAN CLAUSEN this past Sunday despite having much better weapons in the passing game.

Unless he can find some sort of legal/undetectable HGH type of substance to restore his arm, Palmer is done. It's a shame because I really believe he had the talent to be an elite NFL QB but he no longer has the arm of even an average NFL QB now.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

I think he's generally the victim of his own earlier success. he was SO good for a few years that he was in the Brady/Manning circle and now people tend to over criticize him. Yes, he's fallen, but he's not fallen anywhere near as much as people make it out to be. All the comments are "no zip, no accuracy, can't do anything, no confidence", etc. those are comments we should use to talk about guys like Clausen and Cassell and Campbell. Not Palmer. For FF purposes, at least, whatever he has, its good enough to be in the same tier as McNabb, Eli, Sanchez and slightly above guys like Flacco. So, in a 12 team league you can flip a coin and make him a starter (or McNabb, Eli, etc). In a 16 team league, he is a starter that you can get that is just as good as the 3 or 4 guys taken above him but you can probably get him much cheaper.In any league, he is an ideal backup plan. In FF terms, he may not set the world on fire like he used to but he's not going to kill you like a Garrard or Cassell might.

I don't care for the whole "watch him play" arguments...yet I'm saying it. If I had no clue who this guy was (ie if some no name player looked like Palmer) I would question why that guy had a job in the NFL, let alone wonder why he was starting. Maybe he's only looked bad in the few moments I've watched him, but judging from the comments of others this is the new standard for him. I'm trying to think of qb's that are currently worse than Palmer:Alex SmithDerek AndersonRyan FitzpatrickJake DelhommeClaussen (though he's a rookie and has upside)CassellThose are imo the only guys that are clearly worse. He's in the mix with the likes of VY/Garrard.

 

[Shutout]

I think he's generally the victim of his own earlier success. he was SO good for a few years that he was in the Brady/Manning circle and now people tend to over criticize him.

Yes, he's fallen, but he's not fallen anywhere near as much as people make it out to be. All the comments are "no zip, no accuracy, can't do anything, no confidence", etc. those are comments we should use to talk about guys like Clausen and Cassell and Campbell. Not Palmer. For FF purposes, at least, whatever he has, its good enough to be in the same tier as McNabb, Eli, Sanchez and slightly above guys like Flacco.

So, in a 12 team league you can flip a coin and make him a starter (or McNabb, Eli, etc).

In a 16 team league, he is a starter that you can get that is just as good as the 3 or 4 guys taken above him but you can probably get him much cheaper.

In any league, he is an ideal backup plan. In FF terms, he may not set the world on fire like he used to but he's not going to kill you like a Garrard or Cassell might.

Have you watched him play this year?Yes, Palmer was/is held to a higher standard than a lot of other QBs because of his past success and the talent that he displayed before his injury issues. But when you watch him play now you see a QB with NO zip, NO accuracy, and those things tend to lead to a lack of confidence.

For FF, I would not put him in the same tier as Eli or even Flacco. And the only reason I would put him in the same tier with McNabb is because of the weapons he has and McNabb doesn't. You say we talk about him like Clausen, Casselll, and Campbell. Well, if Palmer was on the Panthers, Chiefs, or Raiders I think he would be look about as bad as those guys. HE ACTUALLY HAD A LOWER QB RATING THAN CLAUSEN this past Sunday despite having much better weapons in the passing game.

Unless he can find some sort of legal/undetectable HGH type of substance to restore his arm, Palmer is done. It's a shame because I really believe he had the talent to be an elite NFL QB but he no longer has the arm of even an average NFL QB now.

I'm not disagreeing on how he plays in real life. All I am saying is that in my leagues with typical QB scoring he is in that tier with those guys with fantasy points (as I mentioned several times...FF-WIse, he is...).In FF, he is in a 6-8 point range of all the guys I mentioned and above Flacco by a few points. That's all that matters in a FF discussion. We can pick him apart all day long and talk about missed passes and bad foot work and he scrambled too soon and all that, but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is he doesn't get Peyton Manning-like points anymore; he gets Eli manning-like points and we should adjust accordingly. And, because he puts up similar points to those guys, he is in that tier of players and he is just a much a starter in 12 and 16 team leagues as they are.

All the other stuff doesn't matter. Its like if you had a goal line Rb on the highest scoring team in the league and every week he only ran for 8 yards but every week he was a great candidate to get two 1-yard TDs. His value is still what it is, regardless of how he plays in real life.

 

[VaTerp]

I'm not disagreeing on how he plays in real life. All I am saying is that in my leagues with typical QB scoring he is in that tier with those guys with fantasy points (as I mentioned several times...FF-WIse, he is...).In FF, he is in a 6-8 point range of all the guys I mentioned and above Flacco by a few points. That's all that matters in a FF discussion. We can pick him apart all day long and talk about missed passes and bad foot work and he scrambled too soon and all that, but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is he doesn't get Peyton Manning-like points anymore; he gets Eli manning-like points and we should adjust accordingly. And, because he puts up similar points to those guys, he is in that tier of players and he is just a much a starter in 12 and 16 team leagues as they are.All the other stuff doesn't matter. Its like if you had a goal line Rb on the highest scoring team in the league and every week he only ran for 8 yards but every week he was a great candidate to get two 1-yard TDs. His value is still what it is, regardless of how he plays in real life.

FF wise he may be in the same tier as the guys you mentioned and ahead of Flacco NOW but what about moving forward? In my league Palmer scored significantly more pts in week 1 than he did in weeks 2 and 3 combined. Week 1 the Bengals got way down early and Palmer was able to rack up points based on the circumstance. In weeks 2 and 3 he put up awful FF numbers.FF is mostly about making educated guesses about future performance. Based on the way he's looked for the vast majority of his recent play, my educated guess is that we are gonna see closer to the production of weeks 2 and 3 than we are week 1 from a FF perspective.I don't think you can rely on Palmer as a starter in a 12 team league and if you have to in larger leagues you better have a pretty damn good lineup around him IMO.

 

[tietzjd]

I gave up on him last week. Thankfully I am 3-0 but Orton has been just too hot not to pick up. Hopefully he can carry my team untill big ben comes back.

 

[PhantomJB]

I think he's generally the victim of his own earlier success. he was SO good for a few years that he was in the Brady/Manning circle and now people tend to over criticize him.

Yes, he's fallen, but he's not fallen anywhere near as much as people make it out to be. All the comments are "no zip, no accuracy, can't do anything, no confidence", etc. those are comments we should use to talk about guys like Clausen and Cassell and Campbell. Not Palmer. For FF purposes, at least, whatever he has, its good enough to be in the same tier as McNabb, Eli, Sanchez and slightly above guys like Flacco.

So, in a 12 team league you can flip a coin and make him a starter (or McNabb, Eli, etc).

In a 16 team league, he is a starter that you can get that is just as good as the 3 or 4 guys taken above him but you can probably get him much cheaper.

In any league, he is an ideal backup plan. In FF terms, he may not set the world on fire like he used to but he's not going to kill you like a Garrard or Cassell might.

Have you watched him play this year?Yes, Palmer was/is held to a higher standard than a lot of other QBs because of his past success and the talent that he displayed before his injury issues. But when you watch him play now you see a QB with NO zip, NO accuracy, and those things tend to lead to a lack of confidence.

For FF, I would not put him in the same tier as Eli or even Flacco. And the only reason I would put him in the same tier with McNabb is because of the weapons he has and McNabb doesn't. You say we talk about him like Clausen, Casselll, and Campbell. Well, if Palmer was on the Panthers, Chiefs, or Raiders I think he would be look about as bad as those guys. HE ACTUALLY HAD A LOWER QB RATING THAN CLAUSEN this past Sunday despite having much better weapons in the passing game.

Unless he can find some sort of legal/undetectable HGH type of substance to restore his arm, Palmer is done. It's a shame because I really believe he had the talent to be an elite NFL QB but he no longer has the arm of even an average NFL QB now.

I'm not disagreeing on how he plays in real life. All I am saying is that in my leagues with typical QB scoring he is in that tier with those guys with fantasy points (as I mentioned several times...FF-WIse, he is...).In FF, he is in a 6-8 point range of all the guys I mentioned and above Flacco by a few points. That's all that matters in a FF discussion. We can pick him apart all day long and talk about missed passes and bad foot work and he scrambled too soon and all that, but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is he doesn't get Peyton Manning-like points anymore; he gets Eli manning-like points and we should adjust accordingly. And, because he puts up similar points to those guys, he is in that tier of players and he is just a much a starter in 12 and 16 team leagues as they are.

All the other stuff doesn't matter. Its like if you had a goal line Rb on the highest scoring team in the league and every week he only ran for 8 yards but every week he was a great candidate to get two 1-yard TDs. His value is still what it is, regardless of how he plays in real life.

With due respect, IMO this is crazy talk. In Yahoo, he has scored 34 / 5 / 9 points in the first three weeks. The only reason he put up that many in GAme 1 was because the Bengals were down 24-3 at halftime vs. the Patriots and Palmer had to air it out in the second half.In the next two games vs. mediocre offenses (BAL, CAR), he threw for less than 200 yds both games.

Palmer sucked in the preseason.

Palmer sucked last year down the stretch. For FF purposes, in 2009 he KILLED owners in Wks 12-14. 110 yds vs. CLE, 220 yds (2 Ints) vs. DET and a whopping 94 yds vs. MIN.

AS much as he may be a warrior, for FF purposes Carson Palmer is a major liability.

 

[road warrior]

You must be listening to Cecil and his 'kissing Palmers ####' segments.The guy hasn't been good for a long while now. Still not sure what others still see in him. Yeah, if he gets behind by 30 points, he'll have some value.... about it.

ThisI'm so glad I didn't drink that kool aid.

 

[Shutout]

I think he's generally the victim of his own earlier success. he was SO good for a few years that he was in the Brady/Manning circle and now people tend to over criticize him.

Yes, he's fallen, but he's not fallen anywhere near as much as people make it out to be. All the comments are "no zip, no accuracy, can't do anything, no confidence", etc. those are comments we should use to talk about guys like Clausen and Cassell and Campbell. Not Palmer. For FF purposes, at least, whatever he has, its good enough to be in the same tier as McNabb, Eli, Sanchez and slightly above guys like Flacco.

So, in a 12 team league you can flip a coin and make him a starter (or McNabb, Eli, etc).

In a 16 team league, he is a starter that you can get that is just as good as the 3 or 4 guys taken above him but you can probably get him much cheaper.

In any league, he is an ideal backup plan. In FF terms, he may not set the world on fire like he used to but he's not going to kill you like a Garrard or Cassell might.

Have you watched him play this year?Yes, Palmer was/is held to a higher standard than a lot of other QBs because of his past success and the talent that he displayed before his injury issues. But when you watch him play now you see a QB with NO zip, NO accuracy, and those things tend to lead to a lack of confidence.

For FF, I would not put him in the same tier as Eli or even Flacco. And the only reason I would put him in the same tier with McNabb is because of the weapons he has and McNabb doesn't. You say we talk about him like Clausen, Casselll, and Campbell. Well, if Palmer was on the Panthers, Chiefs, or Raiders I think he would be look about as bad as those guys. HE ACTUALLY HAD A LOWER QB RATING THAN CLAUSEN this past Sunday despite having much better weapons in the passing game.

Unless he can find some sort of legal/undetectable HGH type of substance to restore his arm, Palmer is done. It's a shame because I really believe he had the talent to be an elite NFL QB but he no longer has the arm of even an average NFL QB now.

I'm not disagreeing on how he plays in real life. All I am saying is that in my leagues with typical QB scoring he is in that tier with those guys with fantasy points (as I mentioned several times...FF-WIse, he is...).In FF, he is in a 6-8 point range of all the guys I mentioned and above Flacco by a few points. That's all that matters in a FF discussion. We can pick him apart all day long and talk about missed passes and bad foot work and he scrambled too soon and all that, but at the end of the day the only thing that matters is he doesn't get Peyton Manning-like points anymore; he gets Eli manning-like points and we should adjust accordingly. And, because he puts up similar points to those guys, he is in that tier of players and he is just a much a starter in 12 and 16 team leagues as they are.

All the other stuff doesn't matter. Its like if you had a goal line Rb on the highest scoring team in the league and every week he only ran for 8 yards but every week he was a great candidate to get two 1-yard TDs. His value is still what it is, regardless of how he plays in real life.

With due respect, IMO this is crazy talk. In Yahoo, he has scored 34 / 5 / 9 points in the first three weeks. The only reason he put up that many in GAme 1 was because the Bengals were down 24-3 at halftime vs. the Patriots and Palmer had to air it out in the second half.In the next two games vs. mediocre offenses (BAL, CAR), he threw for less than 200 yds both games.

Palmer sucked in the preseason.

Palmer sucked last year down the stretch. For FF purposes, in 2009 he KILLED owners in Wks 12-14. 110 yds vs. CLE, 220 yds (2 Ints) vs. DET and a whopping 94 yds vs. MIN.

AS much as he may be a warrior, for FF purposes Carson Palmer is a major liability.

Unless someone can predict the future, I don't know see how this is anything more than just people seeing one side of the equation (the side they want to see). The facts are the facts: Palmer's year to date points are right there with these other guys and just because he got a lot in one week and fewer in the other doesn't help anything. Sanchez and Shaub had bad first weeks and then improved. Palmer had better week 1 and then lesser weks 2 and 3. Freeman had two good weeks and one bad one. Not coincidently, these guys all had worse days against some of the league's best defenses. And now here they are all within 8 points or so of one another. All players have good and bad days. At the end of the season, Palmer's not going to be Phillip rivers; we know that. But he's looking like he's going to be about 15-17; just as he was last year. Its not new news. It just is what it is. He's not garbage. He is middle of the road. Some are a lot better in FF, some are a lot worse. And that's all that has been said. Not much more to say. Going back to the OP question: The difference between QB 12 and where Palmer ended up last year is 22 points in my league with typical scoring. So, its not inconceivable that he could get in that range. It may not be probable either, but he's being talked about like he is Jake delhomme or something and he's simply not. Today, the difference between him and QB12 is 9 points.

So, my whole point in posting on this topic is that all the talk about how he looks in real life (which can be certainly true) isn't the best way to pass judgment on him in terms of FF. Last year at this time Brett Favre was QB20 after three weeks. He ended up QB6. David Garrard was 22 and finished 14. All I'm saying is FF productivity is not necessarily tied to how a player looks in real life.