scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Either it really stinks to play for the Bengals Organization or Carson Palmer is a wimp. I kind of lean on it being the latter.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Carson Palmer is leaving Cincy (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter scrumptrulescent
- Start date
TommyGilmore
Footballguy
FWIW, my friend's brother-in-law is a real-estate agent in Arizona. He knows someone whose cousin is real-estate agent in Minnesota. And that guy heard a rumor that Palmer was seen shopping for houses in San Francisco.
Dawg Pound 69
Footballguy
Don't think it's because he thinks he will be a 49'er. More likely because he is from that area, so probably wants to live near his parents. Can't see Harbaugh hitching his wagon to a QB on the downside of his career.
dgreen
Footballguy
Football Critic
Footballguy
My cousins sisters brother-in-law knows a guy who knows this other guy who works for this one woman who knows something about this.
I have sex with that woman the second Tuesday of every week and she told me the same thingMy cousins sisters brother-in-law knows a guy who knows this other guy who works for this one woman who knows something about this.
AhrnCityPahnder
Yinz-o-riffic
why can't it be both?
heidbrink
Footballguy
Small world. My girlfriend's cousin's brother knows a guy who works with that woman.My cousins sisters brother-in-law knows a guy who knows this other guy who works for this one woman who knows something about this.
bostonfred
Footballguy
Um, guys, I am that woman, and I find this whole thread offensive.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Cya Tuesday!
Stillers Jr.
Footballguy
hamster_13
Footballguy
Steve Smiths house has been on the Charlotte market for like 3 years. 
notdarkyet
Footballguy
Well, absent a CBA deal prior to the draft, he can't be traded. And you can bet that Mikey would want something this season in return for his departure. I don't think Mikey will budge even if there is a deal. He hates being told what to do. So consider your bluff called, Carson. The other thing not working in Carson's favor is that Mikey actually still thinks Carson is an elite franchise QB, and as such he is going to want elite franchise QB value for him. Nobody will pay what it would take for Mikey to trade Carson.
I actually hope that he does retire. A spectacular slap in the face of this pathetic FO. Then again losing your "franchise QB" in such a manner would be just the kind of excuse for failure that Mikey has been living off of for decades. When they inevitably suck again, he can point to this travesty and say "If and but, and what could have been", then he will ramble on about how "his way" of ignoring scouting and the position of a competent GM hasn't been proven to be ineffective based on these events and Pollack getting hurt, and Chris Henry dying. After all, they are "top 10" in players drafted that are playing in the league still (which essentially puts them right around 68th percentile of the league, a solid D+ on most grading scales, go Mikey!), never mind many of these players are only successful after getting the hell out of Dodge.
Bottom line, Carson isn't good enough to make such demands, and he isn't good enough to get the value that Mikey would want. Enjoy retirement, Carson. And now the Bengals fans get to revisit Mikey's QB evaluation skills that brought such talent into the helm as David Klingler and Akili Smith. This should be fun.
I actually hope that he does retire. A spectacular slap in the face of this pathetic FO. Then again losing your "franchise QB" in such a manner would be just the kind of excuse for failure that Mikey has been living off of for decades. When they inevitably suck again, he can point to this travesty and say "If and but, and what could have been", then he will ramble on about how "his way" of ignoring scouting and the position of a competent GM hasn't been proven to be ineffective based on these events and Pollack getting hurt, and Chris Henry dying. After all, they are "top 10" in players drafted that are playing in the league still (which essentially puts them right around 68th percentile of the league, a solid D+ on most grading scales, go Mikey!), never mind many of these players are only successful after getting the hell out of Dodge.
Bottom line, Carson isn't good enough to make such demands, and he isn't good enough to get the value that Mikey would want. Enjoy retirement, Carson. And now the Bengals fans get to revisit Mikey's QB evaluation skills that brought such talent into the helm as David Klingler and Akili Smith. This should be fun.
Mexican is not a race.
Tony Jabroni
Footballguy
Well played, the both of you.To Mr. Gilmore, I appreciate the little nugget of info. You never really know...
Football Critic
Footballguy
Its a figure of speech here in America.As far as Palmer, why won't he retire? I'm sure he has cash saved, he might get a gig on the NFL network or something like that. He don't like being in Cincinnati, and I see people call him a wimp, If you dont want to be somewhere... dont. He is not the best player but he has a better insight into how that team is ran better then we do, why do we insist on critisizing players decisions? This has nothing to do with money, so why cant he be justifed in his actions, towards a owner who really has no respect for some of his players. The facilities are horrible, what is a better sign of respect then money then what you allow your employees to work with?
As a non bias person. Palmer should be allowed his release or trade. Do to the history of the franchise, and Palmer being the franchise QB. Just his word and input has a lot of weight in this situation as to who is at fault.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If you feel like searching this is not a new topic but for the house being on the market. There's two or three threads on Carson possibly leaving.
Putting the house on the market is a very common strategy move for players.
I think the decline has to do with playing for a losing team for a long time.
I totally disagree with most here and think Carson is a very good quarterback, he just doesn't compare favorably to the great ones. Brees, Brady and Manning are best ever type of good. Palmer's held to too high a standard by some.
I'm a real big fan of his and want to see if he doesn't become great playing on a well coached, quality team.
We've debated this in other threads.
The house, to me, signifies that Brown needs to accept that Palmer is leaving, trade him and draft his replacement now. They have a potentially great rook(now 2nd) TE, an excellent looking pair of young WRs, Scott looks like he could be their back, they have a linemen or two that are noteworthy. It's the right time to add a young QB to the mix and build a dynasty(in theory). It doesn't get any more perfect for them.
Some of Brown's/Bengals failures has been bad luck. Brown has to change his luck, sorta make his own. Get the young QB you want and show some conviction to building the team. Cincy's past has me believing Carson will just leave in 2012, they'll get whomever isn't named Luck and one of these young guys on offense will have a career ending injury. And that defense has been a player or two away from being impactful for years. (Sign a few trainers to watch them like hawks because the injuries to the D is just plain disturbing) Tell Marvin he can have X amount to spend on FA and give him all the other picks in the draft. After all that, with his resume coming in, if he doesn't have a good D, he's gone.
Cincy has to push the envelope. Their status quo stinks.
There are definitely Bengals fans on this board that do not wholly admit their status quo stinks. It'll be posts with "they stink" followed by, "we only need to add a player here N there." No! You either stink or you don't. You guys bought into Brown's boredom of building a below average team.
If there ever was a team that needed to be shaken up it's Cincy right now. If they did, the fans would whine and then two months later they'd be embracing it. Brown's gotta have the nerve to do it.
Coaches do not make a lot of money, relatively speaking. They just don't and them creating a union has been a discussion around this CBA. Brown can hire Fisher right now. Tell Marvin to work as his DC or assistant head coach (since he's cheap and won't just take the loss of $). But when is a guy like Fisher going to be available? Cheap Brown would never have the nerve to do this, but he's gotta with the players and he has to push Marvin about the D.
Putting the house on the market is a very common strategy move for players.
I think the decline has to do with playing for a losing team for a long time.
I totally disagree with most here and think Carson is a very good quarterback, he just doesn't compare favorably to the great ones. Brees, Brady and Manning are best ever type of good. Palmer's held to too high a standard by some.
I'm a real big fan of his and want to see if he doesn't become great playing on a well coached, quality team.
We've debated this in other threads.
The house, to me, signifies that Brown needs to accept that Palmer is leaving, trade him and draft his replacement now. They have a potentially great rook(now 2nd) TE, an excellent looking pair of young WRs, Scott looks like he could be their back, they have a linemen or two that are noteworthy. It's the right time to add a young QB to the mix and build a dynasty(in theory). It doesn't get any more perfect for them.
Some of Brown's/Bengals failures has been bad luck. Brown has to change his luck, sorta make his own. Get the young QB you want and show some conviction to building the team. Cincy's past has me believing Carson will just leave in 2012, they'll get whomever isn't named Luck and one of these young guys on offense will have a career ending injury. And that defense has been a player or two away from being impactful for years. (Sign a few trainers to watch them like hawks because the injuries to the D is just plain disturbing) Tell Marvin he can have X amount to spend on FA and give him all the other picks in the draft. After all that, with his resume coming in, if he doesn't have a good D, he's gone.
Cincy has to push the envelope. Their status quo stinks.
There are definitely Bengals fans on this board that do not wholly admit their status quo stinks. It'll be posts with "they stink" followed by, "we only need to add a player here N there." No! You either stink or you don't. You guys bought into Brown's boredom of building a below average team.
If there ever was a team that needed to be shaken up it's Cincy right now. If they did, the fans would whine and then two months later they'd be embracing it. Brown's gotta have the nerve to do it.
Coaches do not make a lot of money, relatively speaking. They just don't and them creating a union has been a discussion around this CBA. Brown can hire Fisher right now. Tell Marvin to work as his DC or assistant head coach (since he's cheap and won't just take the loss of $). But when is a guy like Fisher going to be available? Cheap Brown would never have the nerve to do this, but he's gotta with the players and he has to push Marvin about the D.
Clarence the barber
Footballguy
Kenny Power's standoff >>>> Reservoir Dog's standoff
LarryAllen'sJockstrap
Footballguy
Has Steve Smith threatened to retire if the Panthers don't trade him? Apples and oranges.Steve Smiths house has been on the Charlotte market for like 3 years.
cheese
Footballguy
I don't care if he retires. I care a lot if he threatens to bail on his contract just because he doesn't feel like playing in Cincy anymore... which seems like the current situation. @BRI-- in general I might agree with your suggestion, but most of us in Cincy hate change even more than we hate losing so it will be harder than most places.
Norseman
Footballguy
Isn't your cousins sister your cousin too?My cousins sisters brother-in-law knows a guy who knows this other guy who works for this one woman who knows something about this.
I said Titans and San Fran in another thread, someone (Quiz guy?) said Arizona.
Espn blog today says same three teams
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/21664/kiper-like-palmer-best-as-trade-target-qb
We at the AFC South blog like Carson Palmer best as a practical trade target for the Titans, who we expect to add a draft pick and a veteran QB as they restock.
Mel Kiper agrees.
The piece is Insider, covers six guys, and No. 6 is the guy the Titans are trying to replace: Vince Young.
Here's what Kiper says about Palmer's prospects with a new team.
"I can hear the dissenters, as Palmer is coming off a bad year for his standards, but if you want to win now, with Palmer you can at least guarantee a level of proficiency. He has a career quarterback rating of 86.9, has thrown for over 234 yards a game, and not always in front of the best offensive line. Is Palmer the best quarterback for your franchise for the next 10 years if you make a deal? No. But even three years is a coaching eternity in this league, and if you're a team like Arizona or San Fran, with a lot of good pieces but a void under center, how can you not get a price quote on a guy who has demanded to be traded?"
Espn blog today says same three teams
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/21664/kiper-like-palmer-best-as-trade-target-qb
We at the AFC South blog like Carson Palmer best as a practical trade target for the Titans, who we expect to add a draft pick and a veteran QB as they restock.
Mel Kiper agrees.
The piece is Insider, covers six guys, and No. 6 is the guy the Titans are trying to replace: Vince Young.
Here's what Kiper says about Palmer's prospects with a new team.
"I can hear the dissenters, as Palmer is coming off a bad year for his standards, but if you want to win now, with Palmer you can at least guarantee a level of proficiency. He has a career quarterback rating of 86.9, has thrown for over 234 yards a game, and not always in front of the best offensive line. Is Palmer the best quarterback for your franchise for the next 10 years if you make a deal? No. But even three years is a coaching eternity in this league, and if you're a team like Arizona or San Fran, with a lot of good pieces but a void under center, how can you not get a price quote on a guy who has demanded to be traded?"
http://www.cincyjungle.com/2011/2/20/2004896/bengals-management-laughing-palmer-trade-demand
Note it's a Peter King quote not Mike Brown quote
Note it's a Peter King quote not Mike Brown quote
pantherclub
Footballguy
Would Cincy do a trade with Carolina to swap picks (1 and 4) Carson and a 4rth or something like that. Then they could get newton.
Ice Cream Man
Footballguy
That's pretty impressive. Other players should strive for that fiscal discipline.'Choke said:
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I agree with Ice Cream Man. We're so used to hearing stories of how these athletes make millions but burn through it and are completely financially undisciplined, it's AWESOME to hear that Palmer has not only saved money, but likely made money on top of the millions he's been paid. Not only is that wealth building, but it's giving him real leverage. AWESOME STUFF.
Chimp Magnet
Footballguy
Send them an email and ask. Couldn't hurt.'pantherclub said:
pantherclub
Footballguy
?I am just asking if that is a fair trade?Send them an email and ask. Couldn't hurt.'pantherclub said:
cheese
Footballguy
No, its not. Even if you ignore the possibility that they may still have no CBA for the draft (which I assume means trading players for picks isn't allowed), trading down from that high is nearly impossible. Nobody seems to be willing to trade much of anything to move up and pay a guy #1 overall money. I've been one of the few thinking that the Bengals may go for Cam Newton, but I only think that if he gets to #4. If he goes #1 overall, so be it. The Bengals have plenty of other needs.Speaking of having a lot of needs, Carson Palmer for the 2.1 pick to be used on OL or LB sounds OK to me. It's hard to imagine SF, Arizona, or anyone else offering their 1st rd pick so they'll have to get creative if they're interested in topping Carolina's 2nd pick. I doubt he's worth more than that anyway.The real question is, do you really think the Panthers want Palmer??I am just asking if that is a fair trade?Send them an email and ask. Couldn't hurt.'pantherclub said:
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
carolina IIRC doesnt have a 2nd round pickand if there is no CBA players cannot be traded until there is oneNo, its not. Even if you ignore the possibility that they may still have no CBA for the draft (which I assume means trading players for picks isn't allowed), trading down from that high is nearly impossible. Nobody seems to be willing to trade much of anything to move up and pay a guy #1 overall money. I've been one of the few thinking that the Bengals may go for Cam Newton, but I only think that if he gets to #4. If he goes #1 overall, so be it. The Bengals have plenty of other needs.Speaking of having a lot of needs, Carson Palmer for the 2.1 pick to be used on OL or LB sounds OK to me. It's hard to imagine SF, Arizona, or anyone else offering their 1st rd pick so they'll have to get creative if they're interested in topping Carolina's 2nd pick. I doubt he's worth more than that anyway.The real question is, do you really think the Panthers want Palmer??I am just asking if that is a fair trade?Send them an email and ask. Couldn't hurt.'pantherclub said:
cheese
Footballguy
I get the MBrown hate trust me. I'm still surprised so many people are on Palmer's side on this.
He thinks he should be able to ignore his contract, demand a trade, and then dictate which team (or small list of teams) he gets traded to. What other player is even trying that? Would anybody else in the league have universal backing that doing that is OK? Vincent Jackson got crushed by fans/press for half as much.
He thinks he should be able to ignore his contract, demand a trade, and then dictate which team (or small list of teams) he gets traded to. What other player is even trying that? Would anybody else in the league have universal backing that doing that is OK? Vincent Jackson got crushed by fans/press for half as much.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I don't think anyone would've ripped VJax for threatening to retire. It's all about whether the emperor has clothes or not. Palmer is saying unequivocally that he wants to continue playing, but is so disheartened by the state of the Bengals that he's willing to forgo that and retire from his craft. I don't see many people cheering Palmer's methods, but I think a lot of people appreciate that he actually is in the position to have leverage, unlike most of the time when athletes scream and holler, but really have no options.
Didn't Palmer get on Chad's case when he was holding out for a trade? That's the reason I'm not really on Palmer's side on this -- seems pretty hypocritical.
He didn't sign a contract to be miserable. There was an awesome rant once about a Lions fan saying he was going to sue because he bought his season tickets expecting to see a competition and his team doesn't compete or even try to. Yeah it was a rant and to be taken with a huge grain of salt, but what is Carson genuinely guaranteed?
Pick a CBA article from the last CBA and it most assuredly mentions how owners are crying that they do not want guaranteed contracts. This is a cake and eat it too thing.
I joked about Elvis earlier. Barry retired fairly early. Wasn't it Calvin Johnson who has lost more games as a Lion than in peewee, HS, and college combined. What's that? 15 years?
Carson has watched the roster turnover so many times. He's watched the coaches change, the OC change etc.
A few years ago it felt like who hasn't been arrested in Cincy, not who has.
When is it that Carson has persevered through enough and he's able to move on? When he's so old he can't play anymore? The system does allow a trap of sorts with the franchise and transitional tags so even if his contract is done, he can be forced to stay.
If Carson wrecks his knee (which he did years ago) his career could be over and he isn't guaranteed to make five to ten years worth of a salary. (Whatever you think he has left in his career)
Why does Mike Brown get a guarantee, but Carson doesn't? Shouldn't he be allowed to play for a winner after putting in X amount of time doing all he could to make his team better?
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Owners ignore contracts and promises to revisit extensions all the time. They choose where someone will be traded or not traded (Packers/Favre/Vikings). They use the franchise tag to prevent someone from getting a long-term deal. Both sides can use what they have to get what they want. if palmer wants to retire rather than play for Cincinnati, more power to him.
cheese
Footballguy
You left out the part where Carson chose to take $118M from the Bengals rather than take less to sign with another team and then won 2 division titles within 5 years of signing the deal. Not exactly a sob story of misery.@some of the other replies. I get that Carson is allowed to use his leverage. I'm just surprised that he has been so successful in portraying himself as the victim while holding out from his contract.
N Zone
Footballguy
If the CBA expires, no trades will be possible anyway so if that was the case and Palmer sticks to his word, he's done.
If I was the Bengals I wouldn't trade him unless the CBA is done before the draft AND you can trade him to a team on the clock in the first round AND only if there is a player there I really like. Otherwise I'd force him to retire or play.
If I was the Bengals I wouldn't trade him unless the CBA is done before the draft AND you can trade him to a team on the clock in the first round AND only if there is a player there I really like. Otherwise I'd force him to retire or play.
Last edited by a moderator:
AngryPatriot
Footballguy
He stinks. That's my analysis!
Hawk was just released the day before making 10mil. You didn't reply to my post at all.
lynx4ben
Footballguy
Is it me or does this situation happen to the Bengals more than most teams? Why doesn't Brown just realize that sometimes its better to be done with a player and move on while you can still recoup something in a trade?
Seriously, it looks like that team could have new WRs, new RBs, and the same dang coach that they've never won with (Sorry I'm just not a Marvin fan). Why not just completely rebuild now while you have the chance?
I understand the point that you don't want a disgruntled player to get their way. But seriously this is the third or fourth star that has pulled this crap. Now maybe you don't entertain Dillon and Ocho, but if your QB is disgruntled you gotta think long and hard as to what's best for your team. Having the player at the prime leadership position on a FB team disgruntled can't be what's best.
I can't blame Palmer for wanting out of the crapper. I hope he gets his chance. It would be fun to see if he is indeed washed up or not.
Seriously, it looks like that team could have new WRs, new RBs, and the same dang coach that they've never won with (Sorry I'm just not a Marvin fan). Why not just completely rebuild now while you have the chance?
I understand the point that you don't want a disgruntled player to get their way. But seriously this is the third or fourth star that has pulled this crap. Now maybe you don't entertain Dillon and Ocho, but if your QB is disgruntled you gotta think long and hard as to what's best for your team. Having the player at the prime leadership position on a FB team disgruntled can't be what's best.
I can't blame Palmer for wanting out of the crapper. I hope he gets his chance. It would be fun to see if he is indeed washed up or not.
Last edited by a moderator:
notdarkyet
Footballguy
Problems with getting a trade to happen:
#1 CBA - No trade can happen until that mess is done. Even if a deal does get done, if it doesn't get done before the draft, Mikey will be reluctant to trade him without getting something of value for this season. That will be awfully hard to accomplish in a potentially very short time period between CBA deal completion and the beginning of the season.
#2 Value/Perceived Value - What teams are willing to spend on a questionable arm and questionable leader vs what Mikey will want are going to be words apart. Mikey likely thinks Carson is still a franchise QB. He spent a boatload of money on Carson, and to get less than franchise QB value would be to admit that Mikey was wrong. And we all know he doesn't want to admit that, nor will he.
#3 Questionable QB class - At #4 there isn't an elite, "can't miss" franchise QB worth taking. If they draft Cam, he will fail. I don't see anyone in this draft class that can step in and play right away.
#4 Lack of preparation - I have trouble believing there is a worse backup QB situation in the league. The Bengals absolutely MUST have someone in place. With the above 3 points firmly in place, I think Mikey will roll the dice and call Carson's bluff. Much like Marvin and his desperation challenges, Mikey will hold out hope that Carson will change his mind in sheer desperation.
Bottom line I don't think there is a team in the league who will have more trouble on account of the CBA disaster. This Carson situation is completely FUBAR on account of the CBA. They really cannot do ANYTHING to fix this problem until that is resolved. If the CBA carries into September as some speculate, they better pray that Carson is bluffing, because they have nothing in line to fill the role. Add on top of that, this team is well known to have problems getting top rookies in camp on time (if at all), and that is when they have an entire offseason to work with. Complete disaster for the Bengals. Except for Mikey. This will be another in a long list of excuses to fling out to Bengals fans. Mikey will still make money, so the Bengals will be successful in his eyes. $$$ > W's in Bengaldom.
Good news for Bengals fans is that half the Bengals games will be blacked out, so we will be spared having to watch what will most assuredly be the worst season in Marvin's tenure.
#1 CBA - No trade can happen until that mess is done. Even if a deal does get done, if it doesn't get done before the draft, Mikey will be reluctant to trade him without getting something of value for this season. That will be awfully hard to accomplish in a potentially very short time period between CBA deal completion and the beginning of the season.
#2 Value/Perceived Value - What teams are willing to spend on a questionable arm and questionable leader vs what Mikey will want are going to be words apart. Mikey likely thinks Carson is still a franchise QB. He spent a boatload of money on Carson, and to get less than franchise QB value would be to admit that Mikey was wrong. And we all know he doesn't want to admit that, nor will he.
#3 Questionable QB class - At #4 there isn't an elite, "can't miss" franchise QB worth taking. If they draft Cam, he will fail. I don't see anyone in this draft class that can step in and play right away.
#4 Lack of preparation - I have trouble believing there is a worse backup QB situation in the league. The Bengals absolutely MUST have someone in place. With the above 3 points firmly in place, I think Mikey will roll the dice and call Carson's bluff. Much like Marvin and his desperation challenges, Mikey will hold out hope that Carson will change his mind in sheer desperation.
Bottom line I don't think there is a team in the league who will have more trouble on account of the CBA disaster. This Carson situation is completely FUBAR on account of the CBA. They really cannot do ANYTHING to fix this problem until that is resolved. If the CBA carries into September as some speculate, they better pray that Carson is bluffing, because they have nothing in line to fill the role. Add on top of that, this team is well known to have problems getting top rookies in camp on time (if at all), and that is when they have an entire offseason to work with. Complete disaster for the Bengals. Except for Mikey. This will be another in a long list of excuses to fling out to Bengals fans. Mikey will still make money, so the Bengals will be successful in his eyes. $$$ > W's in Bengaldom.
Good news for Bengals fans is that half the Bengals games will be blacked out, so we will be spared having to watch what will most assuredly be the worst season in Marvin's tenure.
