Cedric Wilson has signed with Steelers (1 Viewer)

[Macdaddy_2004]

Ward's value definately can only go up this yearHe has been always a great possesion receiver and in 05 the Steelers will let Big Ben throw a little moreWard should have a 90+ reception season and if I try really hard I can see 100.His yardage won't be through the roof - maybe 1200 but his TD's should hit 8 or 9In my opinion Ward along with Marvin harrison are the two receivers that represent the most value in re-drafts next year.Add Coles to that list as well

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I hope the people in my league feel the same about Ward as some people in this thread do. You guys can have him, someone will take him way to early for my liking.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

Welcome to double teams, Mr. Ward.

That's one more guy to avoid like the plague in fantasy drafts.

As much as I hate to say it, you're right. Ward drops significantly on my board unless the Steelers draft/sign an absolute burner that can draw attention deep.

You mean with all his production the last few years he wasn't already getting double teams.

Not very often, no. The deep safety was usually committed to helping cover Burress downfield. Thus, if defenses wanted to roll another safety over to help cover Ward, they either had to cover Randle-El with a LB or play nickel against that running attack. I can only hope Randle-El or Wilson will continue to draw that attention that Burress did otherwise defenses will be able to key on Ward a lot more. His targets dropped considerably after Burress got hurt.

 

[Yelsnia]

I crunched some numbers and this is what I came up with:

Plaxico Burress

Plaxico started 11 games in 2004. His stats were as follows:

Totals: 35-698-5

Average: 3.18-63.45-0.45

2 games with 5+ receptions

1 game with 100+ yards

1 game with multiple TDs

Antwaan Randle El

El started 5 games in 2004 in place of Plaxico. His stats were as follows:

Totals: 20-349-2

Average: 4.00-69.80-0.40

3 games with 5+ receptions

1 game with 100+ yards

0 games with multiple TDs

Hines Ward

Hines Ward started all 16 games in 2004. His stats were as follows:

Totals (with Burress): 60-699-4

Totals (with El): 20-305-1

Average (with Burress): 5.45-63.55-0.36

Average (with El): 4.00-61.00-0.20

7 games with 5+ receptions (with Burress)

1 game with 5+ receptions (with El)

1 game with 100+ yards (with Burress)

1 game with 100+ yards (with El)

1 game with multiple TDs (with Plaxico)

0 games with multiple TDs (with El)

Conclusions

Antwaan Randle El averaged more receptions and more yards as a starter than Plaxico did. In addition, Randle El had more 5+ reception games than Plax. Ward's averages, although down with Plax's absence, were still respectable. The fact that El's numbers (accept for TDs) were better than those of Plax on a per game average should make up for the miniscual drop in Ward's production.

The stats show that El can definately fill Plaxico's shoes when it comes to the numbers. The only downside may be the effect of Plaxico's departure on Ward.

 

[placeholder10391]

Ward's value definately can only go up this year

He has been always a great possesion receiver and in 05 the Steelers will let Big Ben throw a little more

Ward should have a 90+ reception season and if I try really hard I can see 100.

His yardage won't be through the roof - maybe 1200 but his TD's should hit 8 or 9

In my opinion Ward along with Marvin harrison are the two receivers that represent the most value in re-drafts next year.

Add Coles to that list as well

I'll happily take this sig bet.

 

[Steelers4Life]

In the games Burress missed, most of the production from both Ward and Randle came in one game - the Giants game against a depleted secondary. They both were unproductive in 3 of the other games and half decent against Jacksonville.

Burress missed weeks 11-15.

Randle El in week 15 - 5 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

Randle El in weeks 11-14 - 10 catches, 136 yards, 0 TD (average 3 for 34)

Ward in week 15 - 9 catches, 134 yards, 0 TD

Ward in weeks 11-14 - 12 catches, 175 yards, 1 TD (average 3 for 44)

Crunch whatever numbers you want. They're going to miss Burress. A lot. And if you draft Ward expecting a boost in production, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

 

[Bloom]

In the games Burress missed, most of the production from both Ward and Randle came in one game - the Giants game against a depleted secondary. They both were unproductive in 3 of the other games and half decent against Jacksonville.

Burress missed weeks 11-15.

Randle El in week 15 - 5 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

Randle El in weeks 11-14 - 10 catches, 136 yards, 0 TD (average 3 for 34)

Ward in week 15 - 9 catches, 134 yards, 0 TD

Ward in weeks 11-14 - 12 catches, 175 yards, 1 TD (average 3 for 44)

Crunch whatever numbers you want. They're going to miss Burress. A lot. And if you draft Ward expecting a boost in production, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

could those numbers be low because the other 4 games were D dominated grind-it-out games against cincy, washington, jacksonville, and the jets?and again, bottom line, the steelers won all 5 games that plax missed.

 

[Steelers4Life]

In the games Burress missed, most of the production from both Ward and Randle came in one game - the Giants game against a depleted secondary.  They both were unproductive in 3 of the other games and half decent against Jacksonville.

Burress missed weeks 11-15.

Randle El in week 15 - 5 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

Randle El in weeks 11-14 - 10 catches, 136 yards, 0 TD (average 3 for 34)

Ward in week 15 - 9 catches, 134 yards, 0 TD

Ward in weeks 11-14 - 12 catches, 175 yards, 1 TD (average 3 for 44)

Crunch whatever numbers you want.  They're going to miss Burress.  A lot.  And if you draft Ward expecting a boost in production, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

could those numbers be low because the other 4 games were D dominated grind-it-out games against cincy, washington, jacksonville, and the jets?and again, bottom line, the steelers won all 5 games that plax missed.

No.They were grind it out games against those teams because the Steelers couldn't score enough points to win comfortably. You take away the big-play ability from both teams, and the games automatically turn into that type of game.

In the 6 games before Burress got hurt, the Steelers averaged 28 points.

In the 5 games after he got hurt, they averaged 17 points.

Wins are wins, I agree. But they were a much better offense with Burress in there.

 

[cstu]

In the games Burress missed, most of the production from both Ward and Randle came in one game - the Giants game against a depleted secondary.  They both were unproductive in 3 of the other games and half decent against Jacksonville.

Burress missed weeks 11-15.

Randle El in week 15 - 5 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

Randle El in weeks 11-14 - 10 catches, 136 yards, 0 TD (average 3 for 34)

Ward in week 15 - 9 catches, 134 yards, 0 TD

Ward in weeks 11-14 - 12 catches, 175 yards, 1 TD (average 3 for 44)

Crunch whatever numbers you want.  They're going to miss Burress.  A lot.  And if you draft Ward expecting a boost in production, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

could those numbers be low because the other 4 games were D dominated grind-it-out games against cincy, washington, jacksonville, and the jets?and again, bottom line, the steelers won all 5 games that plax missed.

No.They were grind it out games against those teams because the Steelers couldn't score enough points to win comfortably. You take away the big-play ability from both teams, and the games automatically turn into that type of game.

In the 6 games before Burress got hurt, the Steelers averaged 28 points.

In the 5 games after he got hurt, they averaged 17 points.

Wins are wins, I agree. But they were a much better offense with Burress in there.

I'm not going to hold those games against Ward since it was Ben that started to struggle down the stretch. I'll even go so far as to guarantee that he improves on last year's 80/1004/4 season. IMO that's the minimum to expect out of Ward next year. With previous seasons of 10 and 12 TD's, I expect him to be closer to those TD's than 4 (the lowest output of his career).

 

[Steelers4Life]

In the games Burress missed, most of the production from both Ward and Randle came in one game - the Giants game against a depleted secondary.  They both were unproductive in 3 of the other games and half decent against Jacksonville.

Burress missed weeks 11-15.

Randle El in week 15 - 5 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

Randle El in weeks 11-14 - 10 catches, 136 yards, 0 TD (average 3 for 34)

Ward in week 15 - 9 catches, 134 yards, 0 TD

Ward in weeks 11-14 - 12 catches, 175 yards, 1 TD (average 3 for 44)

Crunch whatever numbers you want.  They're going to miss Burress.  A lot.  And if you draft Ward expecting a boost in production, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

could those numbers be low because the other 4 games were D dominated grind-it-out games against cincy, washington, jacksonville, and the jets?and again, bottom line, the steelers won all 5 games that plax missed.

No.They were grind it out games against those teams because the Steelers couldn't score enough points to win comfortably. You take away the big-play ability from both teams, and the games automatically turn into that type of game.

In the 6 games before Burress got hurt, the Steelers averaged 28 points.

In the 5 games after he got hurt, they averaged 17 points.

Wins are wins, I agree. But they were a much better offense with Burress in there.

I'm not going to hold those games against Ward since it was Ben that started to struggle down the stretch. I'll even go so far as to guarantee that he improves on last year's 80/1004/4 season. IMO that's the minimum to expect out of Ward next year. With previous seasons of 10 and 12 TD's, I expect him to be closer to those TD's than 4 (the lowest output of his career).

HmmmmmmmmI wonder if Burress' absense had something to do with Ben's struggles.

I mean, it's not like Ben lit up the Ravens in week 16 for 14-19-221-2 in the first week he got (Burress 3-97-1 in that game) back or anything, is it?

Ward will still be a 80 catch, 1,000 yard receiver. Don't expect much more.

 

[Yelsnia]

In the games Burress missed, most of the production from both Ward and Randle came in one game - the Giants game against a depleted secondary. They both were unproductive in 3 of the other games and half decent against Jacksonville.

Burress missed weeks 11-15.

Randle El in week 15 - 5 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

Randle El in weeks 11-14 - 10 catches, 136 yards, 0 TD (average 3 for 34)

Ward in week 15 - 9 catches, 134 yards, 0 TD

Ward in weeks 11-14 - 12 catches, 175 yards, 1 TD (average 3 for 44)

Crunch whatever numbers you want. They're going to miss Burress. A lot. And if you draft Ward expecting a boost in production, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

Ok, since we are using the "throw out games" method , let's throw out Plaxico's best game too. And, since we're throwing out each players' best game,it's only fair that we disregard their worst game, as well. Ok, let's see...Randle El averages 4-54

Ward (with Randle El) averages 4-61

Burress averages 3-61

Ward (with Burress) averages 5-60

Interesting results. I'm not sure how you can justify throwing out a game into the equation. What is your logic? "They played a lousy pass defense, so that game can't count."

 

[chewybip]

i'll go with ward having an excellent year. 80-90/1100-1200/12tdbecause of ben's ability to buy time i see ARE at 55-60/700-800/6td, assuming the #2 role.ben will be looking ward's way alot, and he will be open. he had maddox looking his way every play because he knew he would be open. top 7.

 

[Steelers4Life]

In the games Burress missed, most of the production from both Ward and Randle came in one game - the Giants game against a depleted secondary.  They both were unproductive in 3 of the other games and half decent against Jacksonville.

Burress missed weeks 11-15.

Randle El in week 15 - 5 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

Randle El in weeks 11-14 - 10 catches, 136 yards, 0 TD (average 3 for 34)

Ward in week 15 - 9 catches, 134 yards, 0 TD

Ward in weeks 11-14 - 12 catches, 175 yards, 1 TD (average 3 for 44)

Crunch whatever numbers you want.  They're going to miss Burress.  A lot.  And if you draft Ward expecting a boost in production, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

Ok, since we are using the "throw out games" method , let's throw out Plaxico's best game too. And, since we're throwing out each players' best game,it's only fair that we disregard their worst game, as well. Ok, let's see...Randle El averages 4-54

Ward (with Randle El) averages 4-61

Burress averages 3-61

Ward (with Burress) averages 5-60

Interesting results. I'm not sure how you can justify throwing out a game into the equation. What is your logic? "They played a lousy pass defense, so that game can't count."

No, I'm not throwing out that game. It was a well-played game, but they were also taking on backups of backups in an injury plagued secondary. The Giants game was the exception, not the rule, for games played without Burress. Ward failed to break 50 yards in 3 of the 5 games.

Too many people just look at the stats without realizing WHY they are what they are and what factors contributed to them.

It's funny - Steelers fans understand that Ward will be negatively affected by Burress leaving, but non-Steelers fans don't see it. I'll say it again - Ward will find it much more difficult to get open next year, and the offense as a whole will be less productive without Burress.

 

[Bloom]

so if plax was such a huge difference maker and forced defenses to double team him constantly, why isnt there more interest in him in the open market?

 

[Steelers4Life]

so if plax was such a huge difference maker and forced defenses to double team him constantly, why isnt there more interest in him in the open market?

My opinion?He hasn't gotten past the reputation he got early in his career for being immature even though he's vastly improved his attitude and blocking in the past year. There's a reason his teammates liked and respected him, and he's not saying anything that any other good receiver wouldn't say. He wants to be involved, and his comments after the Patriots loss were said out of frustration - legit frustration in my opinion. He's a weapon that still hasn't been utilized because of the offense run by the Steelers - outside of the 2002 season.

He's NOT an elite receiver, and if that's what his salary demands were, that would also contribute to his lack of suitors. He's a very good receiver, and he'll make a difference wherever he ends up. And he'll probably get paid what he's worth, not what he asked for.

 

[Yelsnia]

Before I continue presenting my findings, I'd like to point out that I am a Steelers fan, I live in Latrobe, and I frequent Training Camp every year.

After reading what you had to say, I decided I would continue to crunch numbers and would see how the WRs faired against different ranked pass defenses. I set up a ratio, which reads "WR's stats : Total allowed by opponent over the course of the 2004 season." I did this for each of the 3 WRs in question, only including games started. I did not factor in Week 17, where the back ups played. These were my results:

Ward's ratio with Plaxico is an average of 0.30-0.34-0.37

Ward's ratio with El is an average of 0.24-0.37-0.22

Yes, Ward, on the whole, is negatively effected by the loss of Plax. However, as you will see in my original post, I never questioned this.

Plaxico's ratio as a starter is 0.16-0.29-0.29

El's ratio as a starter is 0.17-0.34-0.14

Again, I refer you to my original post. El's numbers, TDs aside, are an improvement over Plax's numbers. Finally, I combined each duo's stats together to form yet another ratio opposed to total allowed by opponent. This found:

Ward and Plaxico's combined ratio is an average of 0.45-0.61-0.66

Ward and El's combined ratio is an average of 0.42-0.72-0.37

As you can see, the duo of Plax and Ward had a better reception and TD ratio, while the duo of El and Ward had a better yardage ratio. Admittedly, the significant difference in the TD ratio does scare me. However, there is no way of factoring in what may be the most crucial factor of all: The upgrade from Lee Mays to Cedrick Wilson. Plax had El in the slot on passing downs to take pressure off. El only had Mays. Will this difference prove to be significant? I think so. But that's just my opinion.

I do agree, however, that Ward's production WILL go down from when he had Plax.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Before I continue presenting my findings, I'd like to point out that I am a Steelers fan, I live in Latrobe, and I frequent Training Camp every year.

After reading what you had to say, I decided I would continue to crunch numbers and would see how the WRs faired against different ranked pass defenses. I set up a ratio, which reads "WR's stats : Total allowed by opponent over the course of the 2004 season." I did this for each of the 3 WRs in question, only including games started. I did not factor in Week 17, where the back ups played. These were my results:

Ward's ratio with Plaxico is an average of 0.30-0.34-0.37

Ward's ratio with El is an average of 0.24-0.37-0.22

Yes, Ward, on the whole, is negatively effected by the loss of Plax. However, as you will see in my original post, I never questioned this.

Plaxico's ratio as a starter is 0.16-0.29-0.29

El's ratio as a starter is 0.17-0.34-0.14

Again, I refer you to my original post. El's numbers, TDs aside, are an improvement over Plax's numbers. Finally, I combined each duo's stats together to form yet another ratio opposed to total allowed by opponent. This found:

Ward and Plaxico's combined ratio is an average of 0.45-0.61-0.66

Ward and El's combined ratio is an average of 0.42-0.72-0.37

As you can see, the duo of Plax and Ward had a better reception and TD ratio, while the duo of El and Ward had a better yardage ratio. Admittedly, the significant difference in the TD ratio does scare me. However, there is no way of factoring in what may be the most crucial factor of all: The upgrade from Lee Mays to Cedrick Wilson. Plax had El in the slot on passing downs to take pressure off. El only had Mays. Will this difference prove to be significant? I think so. But that's just my opinion.

I do agree, however, that Ward's production WILL go down from when he had Plax.

Compare Burress/Ward/Randle El to Ward/Randle El/WilsonWhich would you rather have? Is it even close?

Not with me it isn't. At least we agree that Ward is going to struggle more than ever before.

Randle El, in his 5 starts, failed to do anything significant in 4 of them. 3 of the games were awful, and Ward was only marginally better than Randle El over those games.

2-17 in 3 quarters against the Bengals

2-37 against Washington

5-71 against Jacksonville

1-11 against the Jets

And then he had a big game against the Giants that everyone points to as "evidence" that he can handle the load. I'm not buying it, and I'm normally optimistic about the Steelers.

 

[Bloom]

i guess the real issue here is whether the steelers should have made a run at bringing plax back. i am still firmly in the no camp. maybe in a year where we weren't losing the right side of our line, i would feel differently.

 

[cstu]

In the games Burress missed, most of the production from both Ward and Randle came in one game - the Giants game against a depleted secondary.  They both were unproductive in 3 of the other games and half decent against Jacksonville.

Burress missed weeks 11-15.

Randle El in week 15 - 5 catches, 149 yards, 1 TD

Randle El in weeks 11-14 - 10 catches, 136 yards, 0 TD (average 3 for 34)

Ward in week 15 - 9 catches, 134 yards, 0 TD

Ward in weeks 11-14 - 12 catches, 175 yards, 1 TD (average 3 for 44)

Crunch whatever numbers you want.  They're going to miss Burress.  A lot.  And if you draft Ward expecting a boost in production, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

could those numbers be low because the other 4 games were D dominated grind-it-out games against cincy, washington, jacksonville, and the jets?and again, bottom line, the steelers won all 5 games that plax missed.

No.They were grind it out games against those teams because the Steelers couldn't score enough points to win comfortably. You take away the big-play ability from both teams, and the games automatically turn into that type of game.

In the 6 games before Burress got hurt, the Steelers averaged 28 points.

In the 5 games after he got hurt, they averaged 17 points.

Wins are wins, I agree. But they were a much better offense with Burress in there.

I'm not going to hold those games against Ward since it was Ben that started to struggle down the stretch. I'll even go so far as to guarantee that he improves on last year's 80/1004/4 season. IMO that's the minimum to expect out of Ward next year. With previous seasons of 10 and 12 TD's, I expect him to be closer to those TD's than 4 (the lowest output of his career).

HmmmmmmmmI wonder if Burress' absense had something to do with Ben's struggles.

I mean, it's not like Ben lit up the Ravens in week 16 for 14-19-221-2 in the first week he got (Burress 3-97-1 in that game) back or anything, is it?

Ward will still be a 80 catch, 1,000 yard receiver. Don't expect much more.

That's where I will draft him, but there's more upside than downside to him. After all, how much worse could be do than last year?

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

bloom -- Are you concerned about Simmons/Starks? I think they should be at least as good as Vincent/Ross. Granted, depth is another issue altogether, but if Simmons can stay healthy we should be just fine.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Further, there's no way in hell you're going to convince me that Randle El was more effective as a starter than Burress.With Ben under center, starting week 3..8 1/4 games 32 catches655 yards5 TDsHe missed week 17 and 3 quarters of week 11.That's a 62-1270-9 pace.I don't think enough people realize that.

 

[nightshift]

Steelers aren't done with the WR issue for 2005 (at least I hope not). I'd look for another signing and a first day draft pick. Like Vincent Jackson!

 

[cstu]

Steelers aren't done with the WR issue for 2005 (at least I hope not). I'd look for another signing and a first day draft pick. Like Vincent Jackson!

It would be a nice pick - another big, not very fast WR with bad hands.

 

[Bloom]

bloom -- Are you concerned about Simmons/Starks? I think they should be at least as good as Vincent/Ross. Granted, depth is another issue altogether, but if Simmons can stay healthy we should be just fine.

im concerned about simmons, yes. you never know when the diabetes is going to take him out of commission, and we lucked into vincent when he went down last year. starks by all accounts should be good, but i would feel much better if we had one more solid lineman on the bench behind okobi, because he will be backing up hartings and his balky knees.

 

[CrossEyed]

Hey guys, there's a salary cap in the NFL. You can't keep everyone, especially when you go 15-1.The loss of Plax will be felt, but this is a running team, not a passing team. They'll be fine without him.As for the o-line, they'll need to acquire or develop some depth, but the starting 5 should be as good as last year. I'm not overly concerned.The biggest factor this season will be the continued development of Big Ben. If he continues to improve, they'll be in good shape. Even with Cedric Wilson and ARE instead of Plax.

 

[EBF]

Wilson is a solid player. He's known for a good work ethic and he's generally productive. At the same time, he's best as a third WR and he's not much of a deep threat.

 

[Steel Dillo]

Here's a link to Wilson's press conference:

Wilson's Press Conference

He talks a big game, lets hope he backs it up.

 

[Yelsnia]

Steelers aren't done with the WR issue for 2005 (at least I hope not). I'd look for another signing and a first day draft pick. Like Vincent Jackson!

rumor has it that there was an interestin Matt Jones at the combine

 

[Black&Gold]

The local radio stations are saying that Wilson has 4.3-4.4 speed. I guess he is a great team guy and great blocker for 5'8 and 183 lbs. He just might figure into the #2 slot as well and keep Randle El in the slot. I trust the Steeler's judgement on FAs in the past. I didn't like this signing at first, but am starting to. Plax handled the double teams, yes? But he didn't do anything else. He dropped balls and never used his height to his advantage. Ward will see the double teams now, but El and Wilson are more than adaquate WRs. I think the Steelers will go OL, DL or LB in the draft as well. I can't see them spending the $ on a WR in the 1st again.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

The local radio stations are saying that Wilson has 4.3-4.4 speed.

That's coming from Wilson's quote about himself from his press conference. I'm calling

 

[-OZ-]

The local radio stations are saying that Wilson has 4.3-4.4 speed.

That's coming from Wilson's quote about himself from his press conference. I'm calling

An old article:link

Active participants

By Gil Brandt

NFL.com

Feb. 26, 2001

The NFL's annual scouting combine was pushed back a few weeks this year in hopes that more of the big-name players would actually go through the workouts.

Mission accomplished.

The 2001 combine produced an all-time high in terms of player participation. And despite the RCA Dome's reputation for having a slow track, there were some very fast times turned in as a number of big-name players really helped themselves. Some notes from the weekend:

The first group to arrive was the offensive linemen. Among Friday's group of 30 offensive linemen — including likely first-round picks Leonard Davis of Texas and Steve Hutchinson and Jeff Backus of Michigan — 28 players worked out. Some of the big men showed uncanny speed.

Jarvis Borum of N.C. State, who checked in at 6-foot-7, 332 pounds, ran the 40-yard dash in 5.0 seconds flat.

Kenyatta Jones of Florida, a 318-pounder, ran a 4.8.

Hutchinson and Kevin Jordan of Fresno State ran just over 5-flat.

Robert Garza, a 309-pound center from Texas A&M-Kingsville, ran a 4.9 and made a favorable overall impression.

Davis, who is expected to be a high first-round pick, weighed in at 370 pounds. He has a 36-inch wing span, which he used to do 33 reps at the 225-pound bench press. Davis ran a 5.23 40.

Overall, 50 of the 60 offensive line prospects weighed more than 300 pounds, and 24 of the 60 were at least 6-foot-5.

RUNNING BACKS

Among the running backs who helped their cause:

Wisconsin's Michael Bennett, at 207 pounds, ran a 4.33.

Michigan's Anthony Thomas ran a 4.5.

TCU's LaDainian Tomlinson, weighing in at 221 pounds, ran a 4.4.

Nebraska fullback Dan Alexander showed a tremendous size-speed combination: The 5-foot-11, 257-pounder ran a 4.46 40.

Among the small-school prospects, Derrick Blaylock of Stephen F. Austin turned some heads with a 4.31 40.

QUARTERBACKS

In a pleasant change from the norm, all the quarterbacks in the first group worked out -- including Purdue's Drew Brees, Virginia Tech's Michael Vick and Georgia's Quincy Carter.

Another name to watch is Mike McMahon of Rutgers. McMahon ran a sub-4.55 40. It's obviously too early to tell, but McMahon looks a little like Raiders QB Rich Gannon.

WIDE RECEIVERS

This year's crop of receivers is probably the fastest ever. There were 16 wideouts who ran under 4.5, and five who ran under 4.4.

The five who ran under 4.4: Alex Bannister (Eastern Kentucky), John Capel (Florida), Jonathan Carter (Troy State), Kevin Casper (Iowa) and Cedric Wilson (Tennessee).

DEFENSIVE LINE

The big guys on defense are getting faster as well. There were 18 defensive linemen who clocked under 5.0.

Florida State's Jamal Reynolds, at 267 pounds, ran a 4.64.

Georgia DT Marcus Stroud, at 6-foot-6, 321, ran a 5.0.

Mario Monds of Cincinnati, who weighs 342 pounds, ran a 4.98.

Perhaps the defensive end who helped himself the most was Nebraska's Kyle Vanden Bosch. Already a big-name prospect, Vanden Bosch looked very impressive in all the drills. He ran a 4.7 40, and looked every bit as good as former Nebraska star and top 10 draft pick Grant Wistrom.

MEDIA EVENT

Once a sacred event that was taboo to the media, there were almost 100 press credentials issued for this year's combine. In addition to the Peter Kings and John Claytons, some of the top pro football writers in the business were on hand, including William Rhoden (New York Times), Rick Gosselin (Dallas Morning News), Adam Schefter (Denver Post), Mike O'Hara (Detroit News), Jon Rand (Kansas City Star) and John McClain (Houston Chronicle). The combine has become a viable media event, growing in numbers each year.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

This is the second time I've had to be corrected in about 12 hours. Maybe I should shuttup for a while. Nah. Thanks for the link OZ.

 

[IndyHavoc]

...

As you can see, the duo of Plax and Ward had a better reception and TD ratio, while the duo of El and Ward had a better yardage ratio. Admittedly, the significant difference in the TD ratio does scare me. However, there is no way of factoring in what may be the most crucial factor of all: The upgrade from Lee Mays to Cedrick Wilson. Plax had El in the slot on passing downs to take pressure off. El only had Mays. Will this difference prove to be significant? I think so. But that's just my opinion.

I do agree, however, that Ward's production WILL go down from when he had Plax.

Not done reading all the way to the end of this thread, but I wanted to point something out. The significant thing that seems to be left out of this discusion is that ARE is extremely fast with great hands. He wasn't "used" the same was as Plax last year because he's been in the slot role for 2+ seasons, not the outside. Give him, Ward, and Roth an offseason of training and developing timing. I don't think you're going to see much of an overall drop-off in ANYONE's numbers.Don't have the quote here, but someone above mentioned exactly how I feel about this whole thing. I've watched the Steelers make sound personel decisions for years...i trust them that ARE is ready to become their 2nd wide with one more offseason, dedicated to making that transition.

 

[-OZ-]

This is the second time I've had to be corrected in about 12 hours. Maybe I should shuttup for a while.

Nah.

Thanks for the link OZ.

Any time. I thought the same thing actually, then looked it up.FWIW, those quick WRs aren't exactly a "who's who" list of studs.

 

[jurb26]

Steelers4Life, your take on the 4 games w/o Burress is completly flaVVed IMO. Lets look at this for a min.Wash game: This game was an absolute Fn mess. The Field was so freaking bad that Wash pulled Portis, their Franchise guy because footing was so j ust that terrible at good old Hienz Field. Not too mention that Pitt took a 13-0 lead by half time and Wash clearly was not going ANYWHERE on O. Why in the hell would Pitt be trying to throw the ball? This game was in control by the end of the of the half and everyone knew it. Jack game: This was a game dominated by ball and clock control by both teams. 59 running plays vs only 44 passes for both teams. Ben was.... get this 14/17 with 221 yds and 2 TDs. Ward had 4 catches for 80 yds and a TD! How in the hell does this qualify as bad game? As a matter of fact, Ward had only ONE game better than this all year fantasty wise!NYJ game: This game was a mess for the entire Steelers O, no way to justify this.NYG game: Like you said, Ward and Ben played well. No point talking about it any more.So what I see is 2 out of 4 games where the passing O was VERY GOOD. 1 where is totally suck #### and another where it was below average, but mainly due to the conoidtions and context of the game.Good riddens Burress, I've been wanting this move to happen for quite some time now. :stillers:

 

[Steelers4Life]

Steelers4Life, your take on the 4 games w/o Burress is completly flaVVed IMO. Lets look at this for a min.

Wash game: This game was an absolute Fn mess. The Field was so freaking bad that Wash pulled Portis, their Franchise guy because footing was so j ust that terrible at good old Hienz Field. Not too mention that Pitt took a 13-0 lead by half time and Wash clearly was not going ANYWHERE on O. Why in the hell would Pitt be trying to throw the ball? This game was in control by the end of the of the half and everyone knew it.

Jack game: This was a game dominated by ball and clock control by both teams. 59 running plays vs only 44 passes for both teams. Ben was.... get this 14/17 with 221 yds and 2 TDs. Ward had 4 catches for 80 yds and a TD! How in the hell does this qualify as bad game? As a matter of fact, Ward had only ONE game better than this all year fantasty wise!

NYJ game: This game was a mess for the entire Steelers O, no way to justify this.

NYG game: Like you said, Ward and Ben played well. No point talking about it any more.

So what I see is 2 out of 4 games where the passing O was VERY GOOD. 1 where is totally suck #### and another where it was below average, but mainly due to the conoidtions and context of the game.

Good riddens Burress, I've been wanting this move to happen for quite some time now. :stillers:

Look at it however you want, man. Doesn't matter to me. Burress is gone, and the Steelers are going to miss him. A lot.I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously have to laugh at Steelers fans who say good riddance to the guy. I'm done debating it though... we'll see how Ward, Randle El, and Wilson compare to Burress, Ward, and Randle El after next year.

 

[jurb26]

Look at it however you want, man. Doesn't matter to me. Burress is gone, and the Steelers are going to miss him. A lot.

I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously have to laugh at Steelers fans who say good riddance to the guy. I'm done debating it though... we'll see how Ward, Randle El, and Wilson compare to Burress, Ward, and Randle El after next year.

Well you already know that I was happy about this I'm sure, we have been over this several times. I was curious though as to one comment you made. You said that the Steelers should have shelled out $$$ and kept Burress as the price is droping. How did you expect them or anyone to know the price would be droping like this though?!?! Burress was amking it clear that he wanted to go after some cash. Pitt doesn't resign guys who are in that situation 99 times of 100. Burress was looking for TOO MUCH to stay in Pitt. Our cap situation is not the best and him and Bell are the ideal guys to loose IMO.

 

[jurb26]

Here's a link to Wilson's press conference:

Wilson's Press Conference

He talks a big game, lets hope he backs it up.

Do big receivers have an advantage getting off the line?I never had problems getting off the line. I played at Wide Receiver University in college, one of the biggest universities in college football, and I've been playing for the 49ers for four years and I've been pretty successful also. My numbers have increased every year for the amount of opportunities I've been given. I haven't had many problems at all getting off the line.

______

UT-Knoxville is WR University? Thats news to me.

Well he wouldn't be a real WR if he didn't think he was God's gift to mankind......

 

[Steelers4Life]

Look at it however you want, man.  Doesn't matter to me.  Burress is gone, and the Steelers are going to miss him.  A lot.

I hope I'm wrong, but I seriously have to laugh at Steelers fans who say good riddance to the guy.  I'm done debating it though... we'll see how Ward, Randle El, and Wilson compare to Burress, Ward, and Randle El after next year.

Well you already know that I was happy about this I'm sure, we have been over this several times. I was curious though as to one comment you made. You said that the Steelers should have shelled out $$$ and kept Burress as the price is droping. How did you expect them or anyone to know the price would be droping like this though?!?! Burress was amking it clear that he wanted to go after some cash. Pitt doesn't resign guys who are in that situation 99 times of 100. Burress was looking for TOO MUCH to stay in Pitt. Our cap situation is not the best and him and Bell are the ideal guys to loose IMO.

I agree with anyone who says he's not worth the money he's asking for. It's clear right now that he's not going to get it, yet the Steelers decide to "fix" their WR situaiton by signing Cedrick Wilson. That's a joke. The Rooneys must have had a personal issue with Burress, because his price is clearly coming down.It's not like teams were beating down the door for Wilson, considering this was his first and only visit. They didn't have to rush and sign him immediately without even waiting to see what Burress would accept.

If you refer to the post I made earlier on this page about Burress' numbers in the games he played with Roethlisberger, I don't see any possibility that Randle El becomes that kind of receiver for Ben. No chance. And that's not including the fact that Ward will find it tougher and Wilson isn't going to be the receiver Randle El was in the slot - no matter how confident he seems to be in his own abilities.

They aren't going to miss Kendrell Bell because they obviously have more than adequate replacements. The defense didn't miss a beat without him. Burress is a different story.

 

[-OZ-]

Here's a link to Wilson's press conference:

Wilson's Press Conference

He talks a big game, lets hope he backs it up.

Do big receivers have an advantage getting off the line?I never had problems getting off the line. I played at Wide Receiver University in college, one of the biggest universities in college football, and I've been playing for the 49ers for four years and I've been pretty successful also. My numbers have increased every year for the amount of opportunities I've been given. I haven't had many problems at all getting off the line.

______

UT-Knoxville is WR University? Thats news to me.

Well he wouldn't be a real WR if he didn't think he was God's gift to mankind......

He is trying to replace Burress.Between ARE's talent and Wilson's ego, the Steelers may have the right combo.

UT is a pretty decent school, some good WRs have come out from there, but obviously Wilson is a little biased. Memphis has had more elite WRs.

 

[jurb26]

I agree with anyone who says he's not worth the money he's asking for. It's clear right now that he's not going to get it, yet the Steelers decide to "fix" their WR situaiton by signing Cedrick Wilson. That's a joke. The Rooneys must have had a personal issue with Burress, because his price is clearly coming down.

But this is a staple of the Steelers. Let go high priced, what appear to be very good FAs and replace them with what the general public considers less talented and cheap replacements. It works out just fine for them most years. We normally notice after the high priced guy leaves Pitt, he was not as good as originally thought and that the new guy is more than adequate.

 

[ShadowMaster]

S4L - As a Steeler fan, what did Burress ever do for you to put you so far up his ###?

Statistically, he is just an average receiver. He has been nothing more than average for the past 5 years. Even if we ignore the rookie season - you can still easily pull out all these gems:

2001

@JAX 2/24, @BUF 2/19, CIN 3/37, @KC 3/37, @TB 3/26, @CLV 4/44, JAX 1/13, NY 3/29, CLV 3/48

2002 (Breakout Year )

@NE 1/11, OAK 1/10, @CLV 4/69 (fair I suppose), @TEN 4/41, CIN 4/38, BAL 3/52

2003

TEN 4/64, CLV 1/9, STL 1/6, ARI 1/6, @CLV 2/16, @NY 2/22, SD 3/5, @BAL 1/13 - Might as well bold the whole year as standout ugly!

2004

OAK 1/3, @BAL 2/30, @MIA 2/60, CIN 4/69 (fair I suppose), @CIN 3/46, NY 2/28

That's 30 games in 4 years where Plax did not score a TD, break 100 yards, or even get 5 receptions. That's almost 50% where he is basicly completely unproductive. He is the text book definition of inconsistant.

You should really be rejoicing like the rest of the Iron City faithful that he is gone. I'd bet that a blue collar player like Wilson will be able to match his modest production totals to date. He only needs a few catrches per game to do so.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I agree with anyone who says he's not worth the money he's asking for.  It's clear right now that he's not going to get it, yet the Steelers decide to "fix" their WR situaiton by signing Cedrick Wilson.  That's a joke.  The Rooneys must have had a personal issue with Burress, because his price is clearly coming down.

But this is a staple of the Steelers. Let go high priced, what appear to be very good FAs and replace them with what the general public considers less talented and cheap replacements. It works out just fine for them most years. We normally notice after the high priced guy leaves Pitt, he was not as good as originally thought and that the new guy is more than adequate.

And they haven't won a Super Bowl in 25 years. At some point, you need to keep key pieces in place, and yes, I considered Burress' presense across from Ward as a key piece of the offense. I understand that they normally have guys ready to step in, but in this case I don't think they do. I think it's just as much a personal thing against Plaxico as it is replacing his talent.

If anything, Burress is BETTER than he showed in the Steelers' system. I don't think the Steelers offensive scheme made Burress look better than he really is. If he lands in a passing offense, he's going to be huge.

I'm sure Randle El is an "adequate" NFL receiver. In my opinion, he's going to be trying to replace one who's much better than that.

 

[Gbagzz]

So who is #2, Wilson or Randel El?

randle-el. he played there some last year when plax was out, and knows the offense.

Randle made some highlight catches last year and that one-hander towards the end of the season showed me the guys got the hand and the speed to be a very good #2. Too bad he doesn't have Buress's height!!

 

[Steelers4Life]

Statistically, he is just an average receiver. He has been nothing more than average for the past 5 years. Even if we ignore the rookie season - you can still easily pull out all these gems:

I'm not up his ###. I don't agree with Steelers fans who think we won't miss him, that's all.Statistically, who cares? What do you think his stats would be if he played on a passing offense? How many times do you think he'd have had games like that if he didn't play for a team that ran the ball 60% of the time?

A guy that played at a pace of 62-1270-9 in his games with Roethlisberger last year doesn't have to prove his worth to me, statistically. And a guy whose per game averages over the past 4 years equate to a 60-1050-6 season doesn't either, considering the types of teams he's played on.

Like I've said - if he lands on a passing team, you'll see him live up to his potential, and I can understand 100% why he'd want to at least have the chance to show it.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

I'd bet that a blue collar player like Wilson will be able to match his modest production totals to date.

that's a really myopic way of looking at it. Say Wilson can match Burress numbers (which he will not). Even if he does it while facing single coverage, our offense will be weaker because of it. And please don't try speak on behalf of "rest of the Iron City faithful" if you take the RahRahs out of the equation, people are pretty split on this.

 

[-OZ-]

So who is #2, Wilson or Randel El?

randle-el. he played there some last year when plax was out, and knows the offense.

Randle made some highlight catches last year and that one-hander towards the end of the season showed me the guys got the hand and the speed to be a very good #2. Too bad he doesn't have Buress's height!!

Height is overrated. Give me a player who can run the proper routes, get seperation, and can catch the ball - all of which ARE can.

I've been saying it for 3 years now, so I hope I'm right, but when given the chance, ARE will perform along the lines of Santana Moss or Steve Smith in 2003, he may be better than Lee Evans, with a ceiling along the lines of a healthy Coles. (yes, I am a big time ARE fan)

 

[jurb26]

I agree with anyone who says he's not worth the money he's asking for.  It's clear right now that he's not going to get it, yet the Steelers decide to "fix" their WR situaiton by signing Cedrick Wilson.  That's a joke.  The Rooneys must have had a personal issue with Burress, because his price is clearly coming down.

But this is a staple of the Steelers. Let go high priced, what appear to be very good FAs and replace them with what the general public considers less talented and cheap replacements. It works out just fine for them most years. We normally notice after the high priced guy leaves Pitt, he was not as good as originally thought and that the new guy is more than adequate.

And they haven't won a Super Bowl in 25 years. At some point, you need to keep key pieces in place, and yes, I considered Burress' presense across from Ward as a key piece of the offense. I understand that they normally have guys ready to step in, but in this case I don't think they do. I think it's just as much a personal thing against Plaxico as it is replacing his talent.

If anything, Burress is BETTER than he showed in the Steelers' system. I don't think the Steelers offensive scheme made Burress look better than he really is. If he lands in a passing offense, he's going to be huge.

I'm sure Randle El is an "adequate" NFL receiver. In my opinion, he's going to be trying to replace one who's much better than that.

I'm still trying to figure out (and have been for 2 yrs) why you think a "deep threat" and big WR who:1. Is slow

2. Does not create very good seperation in rts

3. Never creates YAC

4. Makes poor adjustments to the ball

5. Dispite being one of the tallest WRs in the league is a bad Redzone option

6. Has a poor attitude

7. Is inconsistent at catching the ball

Is so freaking great.

Anything I missed Steeler fans......

 

[Steelers4Life]

I'm still trying to figure out (and have been for 2 yrs) why you think a "deep threat" and big WR who:

1. Is slow

2. Does not create very good seperation in rts

3. Never creates YAC

4. Makes poor adjustments to the ball

5. Dispite being one of the tallest WRs in the league is a bad Redzone option

6. Has a poor attitude

7. Is inconsistent at catching the ball

Is so freaking great.

Anything I missed Steeler fans......

I'll take a "slow" receiver who averages about 20 yards per catch anytime.

His attitude isn't poor at all. His attitude is that he wants to be more involved, which is not a bad attitude at all. At no point in his time in Pittsburgh did you or anyone else hear him complain publicly about wanting the ball more until after the loss against the Patriots, and that was 100% justified. His downfield blocking has dramatically improved - probably from playing with Ward.

And his inconsistency catching the ball sometimes is puzzling, but I'm interested to see what he does when he KNOWS going into each and every week that he'll be a part of the game-plan.

I've repeatedly said that he doesn't play up to his size - occasionally making poor adjustments or mis-timing his jumps. And I've said he's not elite - just very good.

 

[Evilgrin 72]

I agree with anyone who says he's not worth the money he's asking for.  It's clear right now that he's not going to get it, yet the Steelers decide to "fix" their WR situaiton by signing Cedrick Wilson.  That's a joke.  The Rooneys must have had a personal issue with Burress, because his price is clearly coming down.

But this is a staple of the Steelers. Let go high priced, what appear to be very good FAs and replace them with what the general public considers less talented and cheap replacements. It works out just fine for them most years. We normally notice after the high priced guy leaves Pitt, he was not as good as originally thought and that the new guy is more than adequate.

And they haven't won a Super Bowl in 25 years. At some point, you need to keep key pieces in place, and yes, I considered Burress' presense across from Ward as a key piece of the offense. I understand that they normally have guys ready to step in, but in this case I don't think they do. I think it's just as much a personal thing against Plaxico as it is replacing his talent.

If anything, Burress is BETTER than he showed in the Steelers' system. I don't think the Steelers offensive scheme made Burress look better than he really is. If he lands in a passing offense, he's going to be huge.

I'm sure Randle El is an "adequate" NFL receiver. In my opinion, he's going to be trying to replace one who's much better than that.

I'm still trying to figure out (and have been for 2 yrs) why you think a "deep threat" and big WR who:1. Is slow

2. Does not create very good seperation in rts

3. Never creates YAC

4. Makes poor adjustments to the ball

5. Dispite being one of the tallest WRs in the league is a bad Redzone option

6. Has a poor attitude

7. Is inconsistent at catching the ball

Is so freaking great.

Anything I missed Steeler fans......

You're right about most, if not all, of this...but what we think is irrelevant. It's what opposing defensive coordinators think that matters to this offense. If Randle-El can command as much attention downfield as Burress does, we'll be fine.