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Champ Bailey (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cobalt_27
- Start date
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Is he locking it down this year?
GRIDIRON ASSASSIN
Footballguy
Better than Clinton Portis at RB imho.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
I don't know, anymore. The term has become so diluted with just about every corner out there now getting the these days.
Max Power
Footballguy
I cant hate on Champ...he is a top notch CB. Maybe the best in the NFL. The Broncos front 7 need to step it up and Champ will be the Man again.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
So, he's having a good year?
I agree with the sentiment here. He's got his praise other times, he's not doing so well recently
Max Power
Footballguy
I have not watched every Broncos Game this season, But I wouldn't say he is having a bad season. Yes his INTs are down, but overall he is still Great CB.
Come on, now. There's no defense for the perfect throw and the perfect catch. There was no way Bailey could have defended that play- none at all. You could fuse Deion Sanders to Mel Blount to a giant killer cyborg from space and they couldn't defend that play. It was just the perfect throw and the perfect catch.Bailey's come down from his level of play last season. That's what happens when you have one of the greatest seasons in the history of the NFL- you come down from it. Just like Manning came down from his 49 TDs, and Tomlinson came down from his scoring record, and the same way Brady's not going to be on pace for 60 TDs again next year. I still maintain that Bailey's season last year was better than any Sanders ever put up, even his DPoY year.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
How good/mediocre/bad has he been this year? You have any link to the numbers? What's a good site to look at individual defensive player stats?
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
The numbers will not reflect the reality of the situation.Until recently, Denver had not been stopping the run upfront, which meant Champ was forced to have to contribute more than his share in that area. Whereas maybe a normal corner is thinking before the ball is snapped, "I can focus 90% to cover my guy and 10% on that RB", I am guessing with the sorry state of the Bronocs run coverage early in the year, Champ was probably more 70/30 in his mindset. Couple that with the injury plagued-season this team has had to go through, it has been a down year for all Denver defensive players with the exception of Elvis. The defense, as a whole, has given up the most points of any team in the NFL, with the exception of Cleveland and Miami. So I think you have to take it as a whole and not try and point it to down to one.I agree with SSOG on that Grossman pass, that was a perfect pass and perfect catch. He put the ball where the only person who had a chance at it was his player and there was nothing anyone could have done about. (Well, except not having put ourselves in that situation by continuing to kick the ball to only player on the Bears team who could beat the Broncos-but that is for another
)
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nibbomydaets
Footballguy
Possibly statistically, but you can't judge a CB on statistics alone. Sanders went years where most teams didn't even try to pass the ball anywhere near him.Just so there is no confusion, Champ isn't even in the same league as Deion. I'd take Ty Law in his prime over Champ in his. I'd also take Darrel Green, Rod Woodson, Lester Hayes, Mel Blount, Mel Renfro, Herb Adderley, Willie Brown, Roger Wehrli, Mike Haynes, Aeneas Williams, Everson Walls, and possibly Cris Dishman before I'd start discussing Champ Bailey. Maybe Dale Carter too. Maybe even Ronde Barber.Deion sits above all those players mentioned.Champ is VERY GOOD, but I have never seen him dominate. He gambles a lot and gives up long TD's.
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KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I drafted him on CBs required team... that team was totally cursed. Bailey, Merriman, Caddy, DJax, I pick A Hall and he gets hurt, I Trade away CJ and then he explodes... I trade for Gates and he has this dry spell (last week nice, but it was too late) I trade away Fitz and he explodes.. just a cursed team and I took Bailey with me.
DaWidowMaker
Footballguy
Didn't know that Tom Brady played in 1995...Brady is the best evah!BusterTBronco said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
Not even sure where to start on the inaccuracies in this.A. He is not the best CB in the NFL this year...not the way he is playing right now...sorry, its just not true.B. Top 3 ever? Maybe...C. As someone else mentioned...Brady did not play in 1995.D. The Bears did more against him than one 3 yard completion.E. James Jones toasted him...he would have given up a similar one against TN had the WR not dropped a beautifully thrown ball.BusterTBronco said:
cobalt_27
Footballguy
BusterTBronco said:
I'm in neither of those categories. And, as has been pointed out, the 1995 playoffs did not feature a Tom Brady INT.This weekend's Bears game saw a "miracle completion" only because it was a poor pass by Grossman. That doesn't dismiss the fact that Bailey bit hard on that pump fake, and left Berrian alone in the end zone. Just by watching the games this year, he's been letting a lot get by him. Not sure what the stats look like, but I'm pretty certain he's having a poor year by any standard, let alone the mythical standard some people hold him to.
TheFanatic
Footballguy
I would say he is still a shut down corner but it seems this year he gets beat on one big play a game. Favre burned him. Grossman burned him but it was the perfect throw and catch - Ironic that Grossman was in that sentence. That doesn't mean you want to start someone against him hoping for that big play against him. I had to start Berrian against him over Walker (wasn't starting an ?) and Curtis who I wasn't starting against NE and Berrian had all of 1 catch for 12 yards all game. I got lucky at the end of the game on that catch. Not something I want to rely on in a playoff game...
sho nuff
Footballguy
A single one.How many of James Jones' catches were against Bailey?He went for 107 and a TD...including a 79 yarder against Bailey.Green Bay threw for 331 yards...not all of that was just on Bly.BusterTBronco said:Okay Cobalt, if you think Bailey sucks so much this year, name a single WR that has put up big numbers on him this year.Answer: None
BusMan
Footballguy
As you can see here (scroll down), the Broncos are doing very well against #1 and #2 WRs. They are 7th and 3rd in the league, respectively, while having the 23rd ranked pass defense overall. That's a pretty significant discrepancy. Since Bailey and Bly usually play sides of the field rather than individual players, I think its entirely appropriate to say the Broncos starting corner backs are the strength of the pass defense, and are definitely a Top 10 starting duo this year. And that is being conservative. The only team with better combined rankings are the Cowboys.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Not many WRs they've had to face:BUF (30th pass Offense)BusterTBronco said:Okay Cobalt, if you think Bailey sucks so much this year, name a single WR that has put up big numbers on him this year.
Answer: None
OAK (29)
JAX (23)
IND (9)
SD (17)
PIT (22)
GB (2)
DET (7)
KC (20)
TEN (27)
CHI (14)
That's only 3 teams in the top-10 and 6 teams ranked 20 and below.
Despite this, they rank 27th in YPA and 23rd in QBRating.
Bailey plays a side of the field, so you can't play the matchup game as well as you might with other corners who cover a primary receiver. But, I think we've all seen him get burned hard quite a few times this year.
Again, I'm just asking the question: How's he doing this year? My impression is that he's been no shutdown corner.
He's still been really, really good this year. The only site I know of that gives an in-season evaluation of the specific components of a team's defense is Football Outsiders, which ranks how good a defense is vs. each different type of receiver. That breakdown can be found right here. Denver's defense as a whole is pretty awful- 23rd in the league. Their passing defense is also pretty bad- 21st in the league. Their defensive line is generating little push, leaving Denver ranked 23rd in the league in adjusted sack rate. Denver's defense ranks 30th in passes to receivers generally covered by the nickelback, 29th in passes to the TE, and 14th in passes to the RB. Really, the only bright spot on Denver's defense has been their defense against opposing #1 WRs- where they rank 4th in the league.Now, in absolute fairness, Champ Bailey doesn't spend all of his time matched up 1-on-1 with the other team's best WR anymore. He generally plays one side of the field, which means he sees a lot of time in action against opposing #2s, as well. And against opposing #2s, Denver's defense... is also ranked 4th in the league.cobalt_27 said:
Basically, every single stat Football Outsiders has on Denver's defense suggests its substantially below average in every aspect... except for the play of its CBs, which has been absolutely sterling, especially given how little help they're receiving (the safety play has been pretty atrocious so far this year). No other team in the entire NFL has a better composite DVOA against opposing #1s and #2s. Hell, no team in the league is really even close.
That was his modus operandi in Washington and in his first year in Denver, but it hasn't been since. In fact, Champ Bailey did not give up a touchdown last season. Not a long one, not a short one, not a medium one, not of any variety.If you haven't seen him dominate, then you weren't watching him last season. He allowed the fewest yards per attempt of any CB in the entire NFL. He was the best CB in the NFL in run support. When opposing teams threw in his direction, the receiver got his hands on it about 33% of the time, and Bailey got his hands on it another 33% of the time. When a defender catches the ball as often as the guy he's covering, all the while allowing the fewest yards in the league on the passes that the other guy DOES wind up catching, that's pretty dominant. When a CB outscores the WRs he's covering (6 points for Champ, 0 for the WRs), and intercepts 6 more balls either in the end zone or inside the 5 yard line (translation: drive killers), that's pretty dominant. When a CB, despite being among the least-targeted CBs in the league, grabs as many interceptions as any player since 1981, that's pretty dominant. It's hard to really do justice to what Champ did last year. The fact that he didn't get the DPoY award is a disgrace. Jason Taylor had a great year, but it's the kind of year you see once every year from a linebacker. Champ Bailey's season was a once-in-a-generation type season.nibbomydaets said:
He's doing just fine. He's still having a great year, although he's just garden-variety great instead of out-of-this-world, can-do-no-wrong great. I would say that this year compares just fine to an average year from Prime Time if you do Bailey the courtesy of adjusting for era.
Nah, that'd be an excuse, and Champ Bailey doesn't need to make any excuses for his play. His play has been sterling. His play has spoken for itself.
