Chargers put franchise tag on Vincent Jackson (1 Viewer)

[massraider]

IMO your analysis misses a scenario. Had he come in and been a good soldier in 2010, assuming he played well and didn't suffer serious injury, he might not need to be traded to sign a long term deal. The Chargers might have signed him to one before now (like McNeill) or might sign him to one this offseason. Regardless, he would have $2.5M more dollars right now and would still be franchised and set to make the same amount going forward, whether that is under the franchise tag in 2011 or a deal is ultimately worked out and he is traded.

I would buy that scenario, but I have never heard of the Chargers offering him a deal. Not during the last year of his deal, not during last offseason or regular season, and not since the season ended. Very possible that I missed it, but if I am correct, and they never offered him one, why would I, or VJax, assume that one more season would get him a deal? He'd already proven himself as a player, I think.

Keep in mind, Jackson was arrested for a DUI on 1/6/09, immediately after the 2008 season. It was his second DUI. He and his legal team drew out the legal battle, and he ultimately pled guilty on 2/23/10. Meanwhile, he was also arrested for driving with a revoked license on his way to the Chargers' playoff game on 1/17/10.So this set the stage for him to enter into the 2010 offseason. IMO had he come in and been a good soldier in 2010, assuming he played well and didn't suffer serious injury, he could have eased any off field concerns the Chargers had, and they would have been very likely to at least try to sign him long term. Whether or not they could agree to terms, who knows.I still think it's possible they will try to sign him long term, but it would seem less likely given what happened in the 2010 season.

He didn't have any more off the field trouble. He didn't suffer a serious injury. He did choose to exercise his right to not sign a contract he didn't want to sign. If that was enough to keep the Chargers from even offering him a long term deal, then I simply don't believe that they would have done a complete 180 if he had shown up in August. From the team's perspective, I get it. By playing within the rules of the system, they tried to get another Pro Bowl year from a guy for pennies on the dollar, and in theory get to pay big money for one year (maybe two) with no long term risk. They probably did the best thing for the team. And I don't buy that VJax was the reason the team didn't win the division. Scoring points weren't their problem. But it can make sense for the team, and be a bad deal for VJax. Which is what I think this is.

 

[Sebowski]

I agree. Now we'll see if there are other teams out there that really wanted him. They will be able to negotiate a deal first and talk to the Chargers about pick compensation. if the price doesn't work out, he'll be a Charger for a whole season, I can think of worse places as a dynasty owner.

If it's anything like last season, Smith VJax and his agents will be asking for to much.. I believe he'll be in Sandiego 1 more year.

Fixed.

I thought VJax and his agents were just asking for about $10 million in guarantees (or was it 15?) as part of a long term deal. Now, AJ is giving him $11 million for one year. Seems pretty obvious to me that AJ should have had the foresight to know that by giving him a long term deal last year he could have spread out the $11 million he is about to give VJax over the next 4-5 years as part of a long term deal whiole retainging his rights and still shopping him if he wanted to. AJ dropped the ball big time. And this isn't the first time he has over paid a player by using the franchise tag.

 

[Polar Dude]

I agree. Now we'll see if there are other teams out there that really wanted him. They will be able to negotiate a deal first and talk to the Chargers about pick compensation. if the price doesn't work out, he'll be a Charger for a whole season, I can think of worse places as a dynasty owner.

If it's anything like last season, Smith VJax and his agents will be asking for to much.. I believe he'll be in Sandiego 1 more year.

Fixed.

So you don't think Smith was asking for too much? Seriously?

All reports are that AJ had more than one trade in place if VJax could agree to a contract with the new team. There wasn't any team that was interested in Jackson for the price he was asking. So no, I don't think AJ was asking for too much.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

He won't give up $10 million.

You'd think not. But last year he gave up the per-game equivalent of about $6 million. So who knows?

I'm not sure what this means above...

He could have been paid nearly $3 million to play in 13 games, but he opted instead for less than $200K to play in 6 games. So he skipped 7 games that would have been worth about $2.8 million. The per-game value of the games he skipped, prorated over a full season, is about $6 million. [These numbers aren't exact, but I did the exercise with the exact numbers in some previous threads.]

What I mean is that V Jax was asking for 5 years for $50M going into the 2010 season. I'm not saying he should have gotten it, but it was at least a place to start negotiations. In the end, I think both sides could have agreed to 4 for just under $40M with $10-15M guaranteed (that would be about $10M more than Boldin had just signed for, which I feel is justified given his young age and history as a #1 rather than a #2 WR).

This is where I part ways with AJ Smith, but the Chargers were not interested in offering him a long-term contract of any sort last year. They had a right to a year of his services as a restricted free agent, and that's all they were interested in at the time.

 

[Ernol]

I agree. Now we'll see if there are other teams out there that really wanted him. They will be able to negotiate a deal first and talk to the Chargers about pick compensation. if the price doesn't work out, he'll be a Charger for a whole season, I can think of worse places as a dynasty owner.

If it's anything like last season, Smith VJax and his agents will be asking for to much.. I believe he'll be in Sandiego 1 more year.

Fixed.

So you don't think Smith was asking for too much? Seriously?

All reports are that AJ had more than one trade in place if VJax could agree to a contract with the new team. There wasn't any team that was interested in Jackson for the price he was asking. So no, I don't think AJ was asking for too much.

I believe it was the other way around. VJax had potential deals in place with two teams and AJ refused to make the trade (was asking for too much).

 

[Carolina Hustler]

All reports are that AJ had more than one trade in place if VJax could agree to a contract with the new team. There wasn't any team that was interested in Jackson for the price he was asking. So no, I don't think AJ was asking for too much.

I believe it was the other way around. VJax had potential deals in place with two teams and AJ refused to make the trade (was asking for too much).

 

[Polar Dude]

I believe it was the other way around. VJax had potential deals in place with two teams and AJ refused to make the trade (was asking for too much).

That was originally the case, but then it turned around.

 

[greggorymac]

Regardless if AJ "screwed up" this deal or not, VJax could have an amazing final season with the Chargers. With talks of both Champ Bailey and Nnamdi Asomugha potentially leaving the division, I could see him putting up a 12+ TD final campaign.

 

[cvnpoka]

He won't give up $10 million.

You'd think not. But last year he gave up the per-game equivalent of about $6 million. So who knows?

he didnt know the situation would be ruled as it was. the nflpa was tardy in advising.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

He won't give up $10 million.

You'd think not. But last year he gave up the per-game equivalent of about $6 million. So who knows?

he didnt know the situation would be ruled as it was. the nflpa was tardy in advising.

It's definitely possible that his agents hadn't read the relevant provisions of the CBA. Again, who knows?(There's always a chance that the next CBA will be different. But the rule barring restricted free agents from becoming unrestricted by sitting out is a very sensible rule. I think it's quite likely that it will stick.)

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I believe it was the other way around. VJax had potential deals in place with two teams and AJ refused to make the trade (was asking for too much).

That was originally the case, but then it turned around.

Which teams? Do you have any links? I was pretty tuned in to this situation last season. I'm pretty sure it was AJ that blo9cked the movement.

 

[BoltBacker]

All reports are that AJ had more than one trade in place if VJax could agree to a contract with the new team. There wasn't any team that was interested in Jackson for the price he was asking. So no, I don't think AJ was asking for too much.

I believe it was the other way around. VJax had potential deals in place with two teams and AJ refused to make the trade (was asking for too much).

Which teams? Do you have any links?

 

[gandalas]

All reports are that AJ had more than one trade in place if VJax could agree to a contract with the new team. There wasn't any team that was interested in Jackson for the price he was asking. So no, I don't think AJ was asking for too much.

I believe it was the other way around. VJax had potential deals in place with two teams and AJ refused to make the trade (was asking for too much).

Which teams? Do you have any links?

Vikings per this article, http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5604433

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I believe it was the other way around. VJax had potential deals in place with two teams and AJ refused to make the trade (was asking for too much).

That was originally the case, but then it turned around.

Which teams? Do you have any links? I was pretty tuned in to this situation last season. I'm pretty sure it was AJ that blo9cked the movement.

It was some of both. Jackson's agents said that it was the Chargers who were asking too much. AJ Smith didn't comment, but the Seahawks said it was Jackson's asking price that was too high, and the Rams said that the Chargers' asking price was reasonable.Also, when Jackson's agents complained that the Chargers blocked a potential trade with the Vikings, it turns out that . . .

A source said Thursday that the Chargers did not even get the call from the Minnesota Vikings informing them the Vikings had reached a deal with Jackson until 3:01 p.m. PT. A deadline for a deal to be done required Jackson’s signed tender and a trade agreement to be received by the league by 3 p.m.

 

[BoltBacker]

All reports are that AJ had more than one trade in place if VJax could agree to a contract with the new team. There wasn't any team that was interested in Jackson for the price he was asking. So no, I don't think AJ was asking for too much.

I believe it was the other way around. VJax had potential deals in place with two teams and AJ refused to make the trade (was asking for too much).

Which teams? Do you have any links?

Vikings per this article, http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5604433

Yeah, I knew there were some rumors of one deal being agreed upon, but rumors that the deal was agreed upon in a time frame there wouldn't have been enough time to make a trade anyway, as Maurile posted.I was curious if this was the only one or if there were teamS that had agreed with VJ in terms of a contract. And maybe one of those would have been agreed upon well before the deadline so that a trade may have actually been able to be made. Agreeing to contract terms AT the deadline just seems like a contract stunt by the agents imo. It's pretty easy to agree to a contract if you know you'll never actually have to sign it. If they were serious about wanting VJ out of SD wouldn't they have agreed on it DAYS before the deadline instead of SECONDS?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yeah, I knew there were some rumors of one deal being agreed upon, but rumors that the deal was agreed upon in a time frame there wouldn't have been enough time to make a trade anyway, as Maurile posted.I was curious if this was the only one or if there were teamS that had agreed with VJ in terms of a contract. And maybe one of those would have been agreed upon well before the deadline so that a trade may have actually been able to be made. Agreeing to contract terms AT the deadline just seems like a contract stunt by the agents imo. It's pretty easy to agree to a contract if you know you'll never actually have to sign it. If they were serious about wanting VJ out of SD wouldn't they have agreed on it DAYS before the deadline instead of SECONDS?

The Chargers had plenty of time to make a deal as well.. From my perspective, it wasn't only up to the Vikings to get a deal done.If I remember correctly, the Vikings trying to negotiate for V-Jax days before the deadline at least, with no reasonable offer from AJ....

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

If I remember correctly

You don't. You are just making it up on the fly.

 

[Sebowski]

Why rehash the same arument over and over again? Better direction of this thread is to respond to this two post, imo.

He won't give up $10 million.

You'd think not. But last year he gave up the per-game equivalent of about $6 million. So who knows?

I'm not sure what this means above...Also, I did some thinking about this, and if you assume that V Jax could have swung one game in San Diego's favor last year when he sat out (losses were by 7, 7, 8, 3, and 3 prior to his return).....AJ Smith made a horrible personnel move AS WELL AS financial move by not giving him a long term deal last year.What I mean is that V Jax was asking for 5 years for $50M going into the 2010 season. I'm not saying he should have gotten it, but it was at least a place to start negotiations. In the end, I think both sides could have agreed to 4 for just under $40M with $10-15M guaranteed (that would be about $10M more than Boldin had just signed for, which I feel is justified given his young age and history as a #1 rather than a #2 WR). They didn't come to that deal, Smith took the $3M off the table and went down to $500k or whatever. V Jax sat out.....San Diego missed the playoffs as well as didn't win the AFC west for the first time in 5 years. What would it had been worth to San Diego to win that division for the 5th straight year? $5M? $10M? How much would they have made HOSTING a playoff game against either Baltimore or the Jets? $10M in ticket sales and TV money? How much more if they had won that game?So, if you assume that V Jax would have swung one game (which I know is an assumption, but I don't think a big one), San Diego lost tons of money and opportunity last year, and will end up paying V Jax $11.3 for 2011 anyway (amount according to Jason La Canfora), and still don't have his rights for the 2012 season and beyond when they may franchise him again for about the same amount.It could have been FAR cheaper to just have given him a deal last year than to "allow" him to hold out.Just one man's thought who, admittedly sided with V Jax on this whole thing.

And my post which is along the same lines. The rest of this stuff has been covered ad nauseum.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If I remember correctly

You don't. You are just making it up on the fly.

I really missed talking with you on this subject.. So much to offer the conversation....

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

If I remember correctly

You don't. You are just making it up on the fly.

I really missed talking with you on this subject.. So much to offer the conversation....

I'm impressed by your willful ignorance. You lean into every punch.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If I remember correctly

You don't. You are just making it up on the fly.

I really missed talking with you on this subject.. So much to offer the conversation....

I'm impressed by your willful ignorance. You lean into every punch.

In a previous thread you insinuated that AJ wasn't giving V-Jax a good contract or guaranteed money, because of injury concerns...Then V-Jax played his minimum at the end of the season, within that minimal amount of playing time he was indeed injured, and now AJ guarantees him 10mill..Gotta say bud, you're right on the mark aren't you...

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

If I remember correctly

You don't. You are just making it up on the fly.

I really missed talking with you on this subject.. So much to offer the conversation....

I'm impressed by your willful ignorance. You lean into every punch.

In a previous thread you insinuated that AJ wasn't giving V-Jax a good contract or guaranteed money, because of injury concerns...Then V-Jax played his minimum at the end of the season, within that minimal amount of playing time he was indeed injured, and now AJ guarantees him 10mill..Gotta say bud, you're right on the mark aren't you...

I did? Show me where I did that.I maintained that A.J Smith would retain his rights for the least amount of money possible. Which is exactly what he has done and what is exactly what every GM strives to do.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

In a previous thread you insinuated that AJ wasn't giving V-Jax a good contract or guaranteed money, because of injury concerns...Then V-Jax played his minimum at the end of the season, within that minimal amount of playing time he was indeed injured, and now AJ guarantees him 10mill..Gotta say bud, you're right on the mark aren't you...

I did? Show me where I did that.I maintained that A.J Smith would retain his rights for the least amount of money possible. Which is exactly what he has done and what is exactly what every GM strives to do.

I think the possibility of injury/declining play is a factor in all of AJ's Smith's contract negotiations. Why wouldn't it be?

 

[Polar Dude]

Yeah, it might be time to put this particular pissing contest to bed.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

If the Chargers are willing to franchise him and then have to pay him top dollar for 2011, then how much more foolish does AJ look for screwing with him in 2010, and costing both the Chargers and VJ essentially a lost season?And if VJ and his agent are worried about that possibility of the Chargers derailing their efforts to obtain a long term deal in the off-season by franchising taggin him... then tell me how much more likely is that VJ refuses to play nice from week 12 on and finds creative ways to ensure that he isn't 'available' to be activated for gamedays?I don't think you will ever see VJ take the field again for the Chargers, barring AJ turning around and throwing significant $$$ at him first. It isn't in VJ's best interests to risk life and limb playing for a couple hundred thousand, when multi-millions are in his future so long as he makes it to the offseason without injury. On top of all that is the possibility you bring up, that AJ is going to continue to screw with him by franchising him in 2011, which gives VJ all the more incentive to NOT play this year so that AJ really would have to think twice about throwing a franchise tag on him going forward.Given the bad blood that AJ has created here, I will be if VJ actually takes the field at all this year.

He wouldn't look foolish at all. He would be preserving trade assets for the least amount of money possible. That's the goal of every GM.If you believe A.J Smith is as petty, egotistical and diabolical as you make him out to be then what better way is there to screw over Vincent Jackson's earning power than by tagging him and denying him the financial security of a long term contract. What better way is there to punish a lowly player and agent for daring to defy him. If this is personal why wouldn't AJ Smith reward Vincent Jackson's reluctance to genuinely suit up this season by locking him into the same misery next season. If Vincent Jackson continues the charade that you believe is inevitable for another season he would have spent two full seasons in is earning prime racking up fines, negative publicity and statistical zeros. Does that sound like a recipe for a big payday when he eventually become a real unrestricted free agent?

Better luck next topic CH.

 

[BoltBacker]

Yeah, I knew there were some rumors of one deal being agreed upon, but rumors that the deal was agreed upon in a time frame there wouldn't have been enough time to make a trade anyway, as Maurile posted.I was curious if this was the only one or if there were teamS that had agreed with VJ in terms of a contract. And maybe one of those would have been agreed upon well before the deadline so that a trade may have actually been able to be made. Agreeing to contract terms AT the deadline just seems like a contract stunt by the agents imo. It's pretty easy to agree to a contract if you know you'll never actually have to sign it. If they were serious about wanting VJ out of SD wouldn't they have agreed on it DAYS before the deadline instead of SECONDS?

The Chargers had plenty of time to make a deal as well.. From my perspective, it wasn't only up to the Vikings to get a deal done.If I remember correctly, the Vikings trying to negotiate for V-Jax days before the deadline at least, with no reasonable offer from AJ....

So you think any team is going to trade for VJ without some financial deal in place?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

If the Chargers are willing to franchise him and then have to pay him top dollar for 2011, then how much more foolish does AJ look for screwing with him in 2010, and costing both the Chargers and VJ essentially a lost season?And if VJ and his agent are worried about that possibility of the Chargers derailing their efforts to obtain a long term deal in the off-season by franchising taggin him... then tell me how much more likely is that VJ refuses to play nice from week 12 on and finds creative ways to ensure that he isn't 'available' to be activated for gamedays?I don't think you will ever see VJ take the field again for the Chargers, barring AJ turning around and throwing significant $$$ at him first. It isn't in VJ's best interests to risk life and limb playing for a couple hundred thousand, when multi-millions are in his future so long as he makes it to the offseason without injury. On top of all that is the possibility you bring up, that AJ is going to continue to screw with him by franchising him in 2011, which gives VJ all the more incentive to NOT play this year so that AJ really would have to think twice about throwing a franchise tag on him going forward.Given the bad blood that AJ has created here, I will be if VJ actually takes the field at all this year.

He wouldn't look foolish at all. He would be preserving trade assets for the least amount of money possible. That's the goal of every GM.If you believe A.J Smith is as petty, egotistical and diabolical as you make him out to be then what better way is there to screw over Vincent Jackson's earning power than by tagging him and denying him the financial security of a long term contract. What better way is there to punish a lowly player and agent for daring to defy him. If this is personal why wouldn't AJ Smith reward Vincent Jackson's reluctance to genuinely suit up this season by locking him into the same misery next season. If Vincent Jackson continues the charade that you believe is inevitable for another season he would have spent two full seasons in is earning prime racking up fines, negative publicity and statistical zeros. Does that sound like a recipe for a big payday when he eventually become a real unrestricted free agent?

Better luck next topic CH.

What does this post have to do with me?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yeah, I knew there were some rumors of one deal being agreed upon, but rumors that the deal was agreed upon in a time frame there wouldn't have been enough time to make a trade anyway, as Maurile posted.I was curious if this was the only one or if there were teamS that had agreed with VJ in terms of a contract. And maybe one of those would have been agreed upon well before the deadline so that a trade may have actually been able to be made. Agreeing to contract terms AT the deadline just seems like a contract stunt by the agents imo. It's pretty easy to agree to a contract if you know you'll never actually have to sign it. If they were serious about wanting VJ out of SD wouldn't they have agreed on it DAYS before the deadline instead of SECONDS?

The Chargers had plenty of time to make a deal as well.. From my perspective, it wasn't only up to the Vikings to get a deal done.If I remember correctly, the Vikings trying to negotiate for V-Jax days before the deadline at least, with no reasonable offer from AJ....

So you think any team is going to trade for VJ without some financial deal in place?

Are you saying that never happens?