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chester taylor ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter cantstop1999
- Start date
Interseptopus
Footballguy
This threads about as productive as a political debate...
I haven't read the whole thread, but I wish I was looking at this back in June when it was started so that I could follow it. A lot of good points have been made.
Here's what I feel are the good summary points of the beginning and end of this thread (I didn't read the middle):
- Taylor was signed for a lot of money. Yes, not enough money to guarantee him to be the started, but enough to wonder why in the world would you sign him for that much and leave him as a backup.
- Taylor passed up an opportunity to stay with the Ravens- a playoff contender, a place where he would have certainly been a backup, to go to Minnesota- a mess. Certainly he has starting in mind.
- Aug 8 Don Seeholzer, of the Pioneer Press, reports Minnesota Vikings offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell has said RB Chester Taylor should receive about 20 carries per game, in addition to about five passes out of the backfield.
*He's looking at 320 carries per game. Take his career average of 4.3 yards per carry and you got 1376 yards rushing. 5 passes out of the backfield a game = 80 receptions. Multiply that by his career average of 11.9 and you got 952 REC yards. Ok, so he won't average 11.9 reception yards if he's the featured back. Let's look at someone a little more his type... Lamont Jordan last year averaged 8 yards per reception. That's still 640 yards. So for numbers let's say he has 2000 all purpose yards, 80 receptions... and let's just guess at 7 TDs. In PPR leagues he's averaging 20 points per game!!!! Not good enough for a RB2!? What? Too bold of a prediction for his stats? Ok, let's say he gets 50 receptions and 1500 all purpose yards... that's still 15 points per game, and still top 10 among RBs (LaMont got roughly these same stats last season)
- He is rushing behind THREE probowlers.
- He gets to face the Lions twice... not a dangerous D. Chicago is obviously good. GB is improved... I'm a GB fan so I am biased, but when you look at the upgrades of Woodson, Pickett, Hawk, Ben Taylor, and Manuel... those are 5 new defensive starters... That D will be improved but it will still be in the lower 50% of the league.
- Has anyone looked at the STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE!? MIN has the most favorable schedule for RBs for the entire season AND for the playoffs...
- Yes, he has Moore behind him... but I'm trying to figure out where all this Moore hype has come from. Childress hand picked Chestor Taylor to be his RB. Yes, he'll see some carries... but I find it very hard to believe that he'll surpass Taylor in touches... Might want to see this:
http://fantasysports.yahoo.com/analysis/ne...gue=fantasy/nfl
- Someone earlier said that the difference between LaMont and Taylor is that LaMont proved he could do it? Ummmm sorry to burst the bubble but he was in the exact same situation as Taylor. In 2004 he rushed for 400 some yards at a 5.2 average... yeah okay that is impressive... In 2004 Taylor ran for 714 yards at a 4.5 average... Before Jordan went to OAK he was averaging 68 rushes a year... Taylor has averaged 93 rushes per year. You say Taylor hasn't proved himself? Last time I checked, the more touches you give someone the more opportunity they have to showcase their talents. I'd say that Oakland took more of a risk on Jordan than the Vikings did on signing Taylor... Taylor has showcased himself more.
- Guys say that he isn't a good #2 RB... you mean to say that he's not top 20? Okay #3 RB? Top 30??? Who on earth do you have ranked ahead of him? There are so many RBs in the league that will be sharing carries this season... and he should be the featured back. I think you guys are nuts if you have him below the 20th ranked RB
- If football guys and ranking sheets were right every year- those of you who swear by them would never lose. You ever think to look at the ranking sheets at the end of the year and see how wrong they were? Kevin Jones was ranked 6th last year for part of the preseason... how did he do? Clinton Portis was ranked top 5... how did that pan out until weeks 12-16? He was crap until the very end. The rankings are never right after the top 3
Overall- I think Taylor is very underrated this season. I think it is possible that a hangover of bad RBs ever since Robert Smith retired has really shyed everyone away from him. It's funny, last season at this time everyone was down on LaMont Jordan. Saying he was overrated, he wasn't going to do anything. Well, you were right- he really didn't. 1000 rushing yards for a 3.8 average... That's middle of the pack right there. But he got receptions, and lots of them. You mean to tell me the OC from the Eagles, who gave Westbrook a 45 reception per year average- even though he wasn't the featured back until 2003 midway... you mean to tell me the same guy who gave Westbrook all that insane value in PPR leagues won't use Taylor similarly?
I think people who are down on Taylor see Brad Johnson and start to shudder. Yeah, he's not the best QB, but guess what- isn't that even better for Taylor owners? Let's say Johnson's old age has caught up to him and he can't throw the ball downfield very well. What's he going to do, he'll dump it off to Chestor Taylor out of the flat. Taylor is going to rack up the receptions this season and anyone in a PPR league should be absolutely thrilled to have him as their #2 RB.
I haven't read the whole thread, but I wish I was looking at this back in June when it was started so that I could follow it. A lot of good points have been made.
Here's what I feel are the good summary points of the beginning and end of this thread (I didn't read the middle):
- Taylor was signed for a lot of money. Yes, not enough money to guarantee him to be the started, but enough to wonder why in the world would you sign him for that much and leave him as a backup.
- Taylor passed up an opportunity to stay with the Ravens- a playoff contender, a place where he would have certainly been a backup, to go to Minnesota- a mess. Certainly he has starting in mind.
- Aug 8 Don Seeholzer, of the Pioneer Press, reports Minnesota Vikings offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell has said RB Chester Taylor should receive about 20 carries per game, in addition to about five passes out of the backfield.
*He's looking at 320 carries per game. Take his career average of 4.3 yards per carry and you got 1376 yards rushing. 5 passes out of the backfield a game = 80 receptions. Multiply that by his career average of 11.9 and you got 952 REC yards. Ok, so he won't average 11.9 reception yards if he's the featured back. Let's look at someone a little more his type... Lamont Jordan last year averaged 8 yards per reception. That's still 640 yards. So for numbers let's say he has 2000 all purpose yards, 80 receptions... and let's just guess at 7 TDs. In PPR leagues he's averaging 20 points per game!!!! Not good enough for a RB2!? What? Too bold of a prediction for his stats? Ok, let's say he gets 50 receptions and 1500 all purpose yards... that's still 15 points per game, and still top 10 among RBs (LaMont got roughly these same stats last season)
- He is rushing behind THREE probowlers.
- He gets to face the Lions twice... not a dangerous D. Chicago is obviously good. GB is improved... I'm a GB fan so I am biased, but when you look at the upgrades of Woodson, Pickett, Hawk, Ben Taylor, and Manuel... those are 5 new defensive starters... That D will be improved but it will still be in the lower 50% of the league.
- Has anyone looked at the STRENGTH OF SCHEDULE!? MIN has the most favorable schedule for RBs for the entire season AND for the playoffs...
- Yes, he has Moore behind him... but I'm trying to figure out where all this Moore hype has come from. Childress hand picked Chestor Taylor to be his RB. Yes, he'll see some carries... but I find it very hard to believe that he'll surpass Taylor in touches... Might want to see this:
http://fantasysports.yahoo.com/analysis/ne...gue=fantasy/nfl
- Someone earlier said that the difference between LaMont and Taylor is that LaMont proved he could do it? Ummmm sorry to burst the bubble but he was in the exact same situation as Taylor. In 2004 he rushed for 400 some yards at a 5.2 average... yeah okay that is impressive... In 2004 Taylor ran for 714 yards at a 4.5 average... Before Jordan went to OAK he was averaging 68 rushes a year... Taylor has averaged 93 rushes per year. You say Taylor hasn't proved himself? Last time I checked, the more touches you give someone the more opportunity they have to showcase their talents. I'd say that Oakland took more of a risk on Jordan than the Vikings did on signing Taylor... Taylor has showcased himself more.
- Guys say that he isn't a good #2 RB... you mean to say that he's not top 20? Okay #3 RB? Top 30??? Who on earth do you have ranked ahead of him? There are so many RBs in the league that will be sharing carries this season... and he should be the featured back. I think you guys are nuts if you have him below the 20th ranked RB
- If football guys and ranking sheets were right every year- those of you who swear by them would never lose. You ever think to look at the ranking sheets at the end of the year and see how wrong they were? Kevin Jones was ranked 6th last year for part of the preseason... how did he do? Clinton Portis was ranked top 5... how did that pan out until weeks 12-16? He was crap until the very end. The rankings are never right after the top 3
Overall- I think Taylor is very underrated this season. I think it is possible that a hangover of bad RBs ever since Robert Smith retired has really shyed everyone away from him. It's funny, last season at this time everyone was down on LaMont Jordan. Saying he was overrated, he wasn't going to do anything. Well, you were right- he really didn't. 1000 rushing yards for a 3.8 average... That's middle of the pack right there. But he got receptions, and lots of them. You mean to tell me the OC from the Eagles, who gave Westbrook a 45 reception per year average- even though he wasn't the featured back until 2003 midway... you mean to tell me the same guy who gave Westbrook all that insane value in PPR leagues won't use Taylor similarly?
I think people who are down on Taylor see Brad Johnson and start to shudder. Yeah, he's not the best QB, but guess what- isn't that even better for Taylor owners? Let's say Johnson's old age has caught up to him and he can't throw the ball downfield very well. What's he going to do, he'll dump it off to Chestor Taylor out of the flat. Taylor is going to rack up the receptions this season and anyone in a PPR league should be absolutely thrilled to have him as their #2 RB.
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joffer
Footballguy
I assume you're talking about Clayton's USOS. I've looked at that up, down, and sideways, and I know what the numbers say. But I see a start against Washington, Carolina (a healthy Jenkins), and Chicago and it doesn't give me warm and fuzzies. How is Chicago a neutral matchup? I also see New England shown as a good matchup. Something tells me that come week 8, if Richard Seymour is in the lineup, that's going to change.Agree the playoff matchups are nice.
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Sabertooth
Footballguy
Pretty much.
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
BlueOnion said:
I see him as a steal in PPR leagues right now.Interseptopus
Footballguy
KEYS! Been a while... I went into offseason mode. I forgot football is 24/7/362 around here... I shoulda kept with itBlueOnion said:
Keys Myaths
Pokerguy
KEYS! Been a while... I went into offseason mode. I forgot football is 24/7/362 around here... I shoulda kept with itBlueOnion said:
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Oh yeah, I forgot my other point... the last RB in Baltimore to leave as Lewis' backup in favor of a starting job elsewhere was named Priest Holmes. How did he turn out?
H.K.
Footballguy
M
MLBrandow
Guest
*edited, numbered for clarity1. it is still my belief that the Vikings wanted to appear as though they were making a bigger signing than they were to cushion the losses of Culpepper and Moss. Certainly agree that he was signed with having every intention to make him a starter. What I also believe is that he was signed because at 213, he's bigger and a better goal-line back than either Moore or Fason. I don't think Childress wanted to entrust a feature back role to Moore who he a) didn't get a long time to evaluate, and b) has an obvious durabilitty issue.Ro3384 said:
2. This is fluff piece. Every year we hear this about every RB. That said, it would be an incredible load for a guy who hasn't shown able to carry the load yet.
3. And Tony Richardson, who is continually left out of the topic and is the most important. What also is left out is that Moore and Fason are also running behind 4 pro bowlers. People are down on Fason because he had a paltry ypc last year, and that's because he was forced into the goal-line back role at 205 lbs, which is laughable. He was amazing in high school and a very solid back at Florida.
4.
Mewelde Moore '04+----------+-------------+--------+----+| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD |+----------+-------------+--------+----+| 5 hou | 20 92 | 90 | 0 || 6 nor | 15 109 | 78 | 0 || 7 ten | 20 138 | 30 | 0 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+Mewelde Moore '05+----------+-------------+--------+----+| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD |+----------+-------------+--------+----+| 3 nor | 23 101 | 3 | 0 || 4 atl | 14 57 | 63 | 0 || 6 chi | 14 57 | 52 | 0 || 7 gnb | 13 45 | 60 | 1 || 11 gnb | 22 122 | 16 | 0 || 17 chi | 6 57 | 44 | 1 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+See those? Those are all 100+ yards from scrimmage games. That's why.
Code:
Chester Taylor '04+----------+-------------+--------+----+| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD |+----------+-------------+--------+----+| 7 buf | 21 89 | 11 | 0 || 13 cin | 23 139 | 25 | 1 || 14 nyg | 25 104 | 27 | 0 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+Chester Taylor '05+----------+-------------+--------+----+| WK OPP | RSH YD | RECYD | TD |+----------+-------------+--------+----+| 6 cle | 8 92 | 8 | 0 |+----------+-------------+--------+----+6. It's not that we feel Chester Taylor is worse than RB20 in the league, which he is, but that he won't have nearly the amount of opportunities as many think. You mentioned him getting 400 attempts. We feel this is insane, and that Moore and then Fason will put him on the bench. I look at this situation and think 2004 Dolphins with better blockers. None of those guys were close to decent or to RB20 (Morris made RB31). Moost (9) of Morris's 13 career TDs game on the goal-line too, but that didn't make him good at it. And believe it or not, he was a more effective goal-line runner than Taylor.
7. FBG's rankings may not be very accurate, but they are far and away more accurate than any other mainstream rankings, which makes them better by comparison. While rankings are much of a crapshoot to begin with, they have proven to be the pack leader by a good margin for a good few years running. They are just as prone to mistakes as everyone else (Ronnie Brown at RB6
) but the stats clearly show they make them a great deal less often. He's ranked right at RB20, and IMO that's a good ranking for him. He's been given the opportunity to be the feature back and is a high-risk RB1, med-risk RB2 back.8. Taylor's receiving skills are overrated. He wasn't even the best receiving back on his team in Baltimore (Jamal Lewis averaged nearly 2 full yards better per reception), and he's very, very clearly not better than Mewelde Moore, who is likely to steal many of Taylor's receptions (and his job) this year. Brad Johnson is not the reason some people are down on Chester Taylor. Chester Taylor is the reason some people are down on Chester Taylor.
To add: Another big misconception about Taylor's prospects this year is the fact that MIN brought him in because of his receiving skills. Truthbetold, he is a much better inside than outside runner. Childress has said several times he wants to run the football and he wants Chester Taylor to hopefully be the guy that will run it. Childress didn't call the plays in PHI, he helped put together the game plan. He included a lot of running plays, but Reid never used them. Now he's HC in MIN, and wants to run the football. It is very likely you see Taylor as the regular back with Moore as the 3rd down back and Fason as change of pace. By season's end IMO you will have seen several combinaions of the three, with Moore probably emerging and then battling a few injuries along the way. Taylor will have a very tough time seeing more than 40 receptions, and will similarly have a very tough time getting 300+ carries.
In short, I think the biggest problem is that people see him as a PPR back, and will be greatly disappointed. Childress brought him in to just run the football. While Moore has been amazing on the perimeter, he is not the most desirable guy you want pounding it up the middle on a regular basis (although he has been effective between the tackles, averaging about 4.5ypc as compared to 5.6 on the outside).
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
1. it is still my belief that the Vikings wanted to appear as though they were making a bigger signing than they were to cushion the losses of Culpepper and Moss. Certainly agree that he was signed with having every intention to make him a starter. What I also believe is that he was signed because at 213, he's bigger and a better goal-line back than either Moore or Fason. I don't think Childress wanted to entrust a feature back role to Moore who he a) didn't get a long time to evaluate, and b) has an obvious durabilitty issue.
No disagreement there. I think you've made some great points
2. This is fluff piece. Every year we hear this about every RB. That said, it would be an incredible load for a guy who hasn't shown able to carry the load yet.
Yeah, of course you can only take this with a grain of salt. A coach can come out and say that he plans to give his RB 40 touches a game, but what it comes down to is how many coaches actually come through. My point in stating that along with some stats was just to prove that they want to make him the #1, and if he does- based off his averages he'll post numbers similar to LaMont Jordan, which made him a top 10 RB in PPR leagues. Actually, he might have even been top 5.
3. And Tony Richardson, who is continually left out of the topic and is the most important. What also is left out is that Moore and Fason are also running behind 4 pro bowlers. People are down on Fason because he had a paltry ypc last year, and that's because he was forced into the goal-line back role at 205 lbs, which is laughable. He was amazing in high school and a very solid back at Florida.
I had included him, I forgot that there are 3 probowlers on the line itself. Fason isn't much of a threat I don't think because first off, he would have to have an amazing preseason to climb from 3rd to 1st on the depth chart, and he's going to have a hard time doing that hurt. Bottom line is in the preseason we'll see Taylor more behind that OL than Moore or Fason... they will be rushing behind the 2nd string OL more than Taylor will. So perhaps they may not even get as much of a chance as Taylor to showcase themselves with the #1 group.
Fason was great in high school and college. So was Curtis Enis, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Rashaan Salaam, Maurice Clarett, William Green, Ron Dayne, hell I was great in high school. There's this WR in the local kiddie league that's just tearing it up. Maybe we should already pencil him in for the #1 pick in the 2025 NFL draft... This is NFL, not high school, not college. Just because you're good in college or high school doesn't mean you'll succeed in the NFL
4. Taylor has 4 in four seasons. Moore has 9 in two. Taylor has 8 career 15+ touch games, and Moore has 9. While the knocks on Taylor being unproven might be unwarranted, to say he has shown more capability than Moore is silly. Taylor was given the starting RB gig late in the season and responded by missing practices and having an overall apathetic approach. Jamal Lewis only managed 3.4 ypc while battling multiple injuries, Taylor managed a mere 3.0ypc in his two games as a feature back last year. Taylor clearly looked a half step faster in games he was spelling Lewis, but in games without Lewis last year, he looked like a complete bum.
I'm glad to finally see someone back up their claims with some stats. None of this "oh he's tweaked a muscle he's never going to start again." I do agree with you, in a Mike Tice run offense, Moore was effective at producing 100 all purpose yard games. Unfortunately for the rest of the division, Mike Tice is no longer there.
It is hard to argue with statistics. Yes, Moore has more 100 yard games than Taylor... however those stats are kind of skewed. Lewis has been the undisputed #1 RB in Baltimore since he was drafted. Taylor has had to take mop-up duty for him the majority of his career. Last season was the very first he was given a chance to start. And in those games his statistics were sub par for a #1 RB. However, those two games were against Denver and Pittsburgh (he got 3 more carries than Lewis against Houston, I highly doubt that counts as a "start"... NFL.com has him starting only one game, but I'll give you the two). yeah, averaging 3.1 and 3.0 as a featured back aren't very good stats to showcase for Taylor, but Pittsburgh was ranked #1 against the run allowing an average of 3.4 yards/carry, and not to mention both were against playoff teams.
Of those 9 games that Moore has gained 100+ yards from scrimage, only 2 of them came off a playoff team (CHI twice, and they're not even a playoff team). The rest were against pretty crappy teams. Look at MIN schedule last season, how much of a cake walk was that? His worst games:
@ CIN for a 3.6 average
GB for a 3.5 average
@ CAR for a 3.3 average
CLE for a 3.2 average
PIT for a 2.5 average
... 3 of those teams were playoff teams last year. The one vs GB, that is one of your 100+ yard games from scrimage... me being from WI I saw that game and I had even started Moore that day. He was doing NOTHING until he had a 30 yard TD reception. After that he was able to rush the ball a lot better because they had the lead and were trying to run out the clock. So you can see that those stats and look at his "longs" for REC and RUSH and you'll see that if you take away his longs, he's an average back at best- It's really not worth it to me to go and do this mathmatics. So he can break a few long runs, or sneak behind a defense and get a long pass... I'll take an NFL back that is consistant over an NFL back that may or may not break a long one.
5. Last time I checked, it's not how many touches you get that shows what you can do, it's what you do with those touches. LaMont Jordan struggled mightily to adapt to the feature back role last year, but was aided greatly by the fact that he's 230lbs. He also displayed what you look for in a feature back as far as prototypical stat splits are concerned while playing as a backup. Taylor shows stats indicative of a career backup who is not built to carry the load.
You're right- it's what you can do with those touches! Taylor has shown that if given that many touches he can be CONSISTANT. If you have a RB who has 3 200 yard games, and then has 13 40 yard games, he's still finishing at over 1100 yards rushing. Would you rather have him as your fantasy back or someone who's rushing for 70 yards per game, and you can count on those 70 yards a game? I'd take a consistant back over an up and down back any day.
Have you ever taken a college statistics? You have a small sample size, your standard error is going to be high and reliability is going to be very low. The more samples you get, the smaller that standard error is and the more accurate your results are. Chestor Taylor has many samples, therefore you can count on his stats to be accurate.
6. It's not that we feel Chester Taylor is worse than RB20 in the league, which he is, but that he won't have nearly the amount of opportunities as many think. You mentioned him getting 400 attempts. We feel this is insane, and that Moore and then Fason will put him on the bench. I look at this situation and think 2004 Dolphins with better blockers. None of those guys were close to decent or to RB20 (Morris made RB31). Moost (9) of Morris's 13 career TDs game on the goal-line too, but that didn't make him good at it. And believe it or not, he was a more effective goal-line runner than Taylor.
First- Get over yourself and the heresay and show me proof that he is worse than RB20. Who is ahead of him?
LT
L. Johnson
S. Alexander
C. Portis
T. Barber
L. Jordan
S. Jackson
R. Johnson
R. Brown
E. James
C. Williams
Those I will conceed yes for sure... but even Cadillac is questionable that high
Westbrook? Reid has come out and said he'll run more. Westbrook is better as a receiving back, and more valuable, but ok.
Willie Parker? I'm not so sure about this. He is good, but he hasn't even carried the full load, and I believe there is talk already about him losing some carries, but I'll give him a ranking ahead of Taylor
Reuben Droughns? He lost 2 centers, Frye looks terrible... I'll give him 1000 yards, but I also give Taylor 1000 yards and more receptions than Droughns, so no I don't think he's better
Kevin Jones? Won't even break 1000 yards. All the hype about him but he has yet to prove himself. I say Taylor and Jones are a push, because I think Jones will have a lot of receptions this year
Julius Jones? Won't get goal line carries and Parcells has all but said flat out he likes Barber better than him. No way Jones out performs Taylor this season in a PPR league
Willis McGahee? Ok I'll give him that they signed Ricard, who blocked for Lewis during his 2000 yard season, but that offense is still sputtering. Jaron never had a good RB in chicago, and I think he's mentally unable to put together a good offense. Dink and dunk will never win a superbowl. McGahee and Taylor are a push just because McGahee has shown he can be a top 10 RB, but his team is just terrible.
Reggie Bush? He won't even be a featured back. Yeah, he's great, but anyone drafting Bush with the intentions of making him their #2 RB... please PM me so we can be in a money league this season.
Warrick Dunn? He's a good #2 RB, but his best days are behind him. No way he's going to outperform Taylor overall this season. In rushing yards, yes perhaps, but not total.
Domanick Davis? He hasn't even taken a hand off has he? What a complete bust he'll be this year
DeShaun Foster? How long until he's on the sideline with an injury and Williams is tearing it up.
Jamal Lewis? Nah, he lost his FB and we saw what he was capable of doing last year without Ricard...
Football guys has him projected as the 18RB and ranked at #22 RB. Ranked ahead of him are 4 RBs that may possibly lose carries, receptions, or goal line carries to another RB on the roster. No way Taylor is being out performed by guys splitting time.
I mentioned him getting 400 attempts? I believe you are mistaken. I said he would recieve 320 attempts a game if he was given the 20 carries the offensive coordinator has said they are planning on giving him. He also said 4-5 receptions, which works out to about 80 receptions... However not all passes are caught, so for argument sake let's say 3 receptions a game. In the end I will give MY prediction (not the MIN Offensive Coordinators) and say he will have about 300 TOUCHES- 250 attempts, 50 receptions. At that, going by his CONSISTANT averages... we're looking at 15 rushes a game, 1100 yards, 50 receptions at about 400 yards. So yes, I predict LaMont Jordan numbers
7. FBG's rankings may not be very accurate, but they are far and away more accurate than any other mainstream rankings, which makes them better by comparison. While rankings are much of a crapshoot to begin with, they have proven to be the pack leader by a good margin for a good few years running. They are just as prone to mistakes as everyone else (Ronnie Brown at RB6 ) but the stats clearly show they make them a great deal less often. He's ranked right at RB20, and IMO that's a good ranking for him. He's been given the opportunity to be the feature back and is a high-risk RB1, med-risk RB2 back.
Every year a few backs are overrated, and a few are underrated. I'm simply saying that Talyor may be the back that comes out of nowhere.
8. Taylor's receiving skills are overrated. He wasn't even the best receiving back on his team in Baltimore (Jamal Lewis averaged nearly 2 full yards better per reception), and he's very, very clearly not better than Mewelde Moore, who is likely to steal many of Taylor's receptions (and his job) this year. Brad Johnson is not the reason some people are down on Chester Taylor. Chester Taylor is the reason some people are down on Chester Taylor.
To add: Another big misconception about Taylor's prospects this year is the fact that MIN brought him in because of his receiving skills. Truthbetold, he is a much better inside than outside runner. Childress has said several times he wants to run the football and he wants Chester Taylor to hopefully be the guy that will run it. Childress didn't call the plays in PHI, he helped put together the game plan. He included a lot of running plays, but Reid never used them. Now he's HC in MIN, and wants to run the football. It is very likely you see Taylor as the regular back with Moore as the 3rd down back and Fason as change of pace. By season's end IMO you will have seen several combinaions of the three, with Moore probably emerging and then battling a few injuries along the way. Taylor will have a very tough time seeing more than 40 receptions, and will similarly have a very tough time getting 300+ carries.
First off, I'm not exactly sure where I got my 11 yards/reception average earlier. Last season Chestor Taylor averaged 7.1 while Lewis averaged 6.0. Of course Lewis is going to have better career averages than Taylor, Lewis was the featured back!! We almost never saw him come out of the game until last year when Chestor Taylor was given more carries and passes. Taylor had FOURTY ONE receptions last season! and he wasn't even a featured back. He was the 10th ranked RB in receptions... Chris Perry, Tony Fischer, and Marshall Faulk- all RBs known for their hands, ranked ahead of him. So he's not a receiving back? That makes no sense
In short, I think people are down on Chestor Taylor because they don't realize how much of a threat he really was out of the backfield in Baltimore. Over the last 4 years he only has 40 less receptions than the #1 RB Jamal Lewis. While his average is down, that's still quite a bit for a backup RB who's not supposed to be a RB known for his hands according to Mr. Brandow, but rather rushing up the middle. While yes, Moore has potential, but that's all he'll ever be. Show me a quote from a coach in Minnesotta recently that has said Moore has a chance to win the starting job. It's funny, people think Moore has got it in the bag practically by week 5, when the offensive coordinator has come out and said he'll start. Childress has come out and said he'll start. You really think Childress will spin the revolving door of runningbacks? He's a new coach, he can't show weakness by giving up on someone HE wanted so badly.
No disagreement there. I think you've made some great points
2. This is fluff piece. Every year we hear this about every RB. That said, it would be an incredible load for a guy who hasn't shown able to carry the load yet.
Yeah, of course you can only take this with a grain of salt. A coach can come out and say that he plans to give his RB 40 touches a game, but what it comes down to is how many coaches actually come through. My point in stating that along with some stats was just to prove that they want to make him the #1, and if he does- based off his averages he'll post numbers similar to LaMont Jordan, which made him a top 10 RB in PPR leagues. Actually, he might have even been top 5.
3. And Tony Richardson, who is continually left out of the topic and is the most important. What also is left out is that Moore and Fason are also running behind 4 pro bowlers. People are down on Fason because he had a paltry ypc last year, and that's because he was forced into the goal-line back role at 205 lbs, which is laughable. He was amazing in high school and a very solid back at Florida.
I had included him, I forgot that there are 3 probowlers on the line itself. Fason isn't much of a threat I don't think because first off, he would have to have an amazing preseason to climb from 3rd to 1st on the depth chart, and he's going to have a hard time doing that hurt. Bottom line is in the preseason we'll see Taylor more behind that OL than Moore or Fason... they will be rushing behind the 2nd string OL more than Taylor will. So perhaps they may not even get as much of a chance as Taylor to showcase themselves with the #1 group.
Fason was great in high school and college. So was Curtis Enis, Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Rashaan Salaam, Maurice Clarett, William Green, Ron Dayne, hell I was great in high school. There's this WR in the local kiddie league that's just tearing it up. Maybe we should already pencil him in for the #1 pick in the 2025 NFL draft... This is NFL, not high school, not college. Just because you're good in college or high school doesn't mean you'll succeed in the NFL
4. Taylor has 4 in four seasons. Moore has 9 in two. Taylor has 8 career 15+ touch games, and Moore has 9. While the knocks on Taylor being unproven might be unwarranted, to say he has shown more capability than Moore is silly. Taylor was given the starting RB gig late in the season and responded by missing practices and having an overall apathetic approach. Jamal Lewis only managed 3.4 ypc while battling multiple injuries, Taylor managed a mere 3.0ypc in his two games as a feature back last year. Taylor clearly looked a half step faster in games he was spelling Lewis, but in games without Lewis last year, he looked like a complete bum.
I'm glad to finally see someone back up their claims with some stats. None of this "oh he's tweaked a muscle he's never going to start again." I do agree with you, in a Mike Tice run offense, Moore was effective at producing 100 all purpose yard games. Unfortunately for the rest of the division, Mike Tice is no longer there.
It is hard to argue with statistics. Yes, Moore has more 100 yard games than Taylor... however those stats are kind of skewed. Lewis has been the undisputed #1 RB in Baltimore since he was drafted. Taylor has had to take mop-up duty for him the majority of his career. Last season was the very first he was given a chance to start. And in those games his statistics were sub par for a #1 RB. However, those two games were against Denver and Pittsburgh (he got 3 more carries than Lewis against Houston, I highly doubt that counts as a "start"... NFL.com has him starting only one game, but I'll give you the two). yeah, averaging 3.1 and 3.0 as a featured back aren't very good stats to showcase for Taylor, but Pittsburgh was ranked #1 against the run allowing an average of 3.4 yards/carry, and not to mention both were against playoff teams.
Of those 9 games that Moore has gained 100+ yards from scrimage, only 2 of them came off a playoff team (CHI twice, and they're not even a playoff team). The rest were against pretty crappy teams. Look at MIN schedule last season, how much of a cake walk was that? His worst games:
@ CIN for a 3.6 average
GB for a 3.5 average
@ CAR for a 3.3 average
CLE for a 3.2 average
PIT for a 2.5 average
... 3 of those teams were playoff teams last year. The one vs GB, that is one of your 100+ yard games from scrimage... me being from WI I saw that game and I had even started Moore that day. He was doing NOTHING until he had a 30 yard TD reception. After that he was able to rush the ball a lot better because they had the lead and were trying to run out the clock. So you can see that those stats and look at his "longs" for REC and RUSH and you'll see that if you take away his longs, he's an average back at best- It's really not worth it to me to go and do this mathmatics. So he can break a few long runs, or sneak behind a defense and get a long pass... I'll take an NFL back that is consistant over an NFL back that may or may not break a long one.
5. Last time I checked, it's not how many touches you get that shows what you can do, it's what you do with those touches. LaMont Jordan struggled mightily to adapt to the feature back role last year, but was aided greatly by the fact that he's 230lbs. He also displayed what you look for in a feature back as far as prototypical stat splits are concerned while playing as a backup. Taylor shows stats indicative of a career backup who is not built to carry the load.
You're right- it's what you can do with those touches! Taylor has shown that if given that many touches he can be CONSISTANT. If you have a RB who has 3 200 yard games, and then has 13 40 yard games, he's still finishing at over 1100 yards rushing. Would you rather have him as your fantasy back or someone who's rushing for 70 yards per game, and you can count on those 70 yards a game? I'd take a consistant back over an up and down back any day.
Have you ever taken a college statistics? You have a small sample size, your standard error is going to be high and reliability is going to be very low. The more samples you get, the smaller that standard error is and the more accurate your results are. Chestor Taylor has many samples, therefore you can count on his stats to be accurate.
6. It's not that we feel Chester Taylor is worse than RB20 in the league, which he is, but that he won't have nearly the amount of opportunities as many think. You mentioned him getting 400 attempts. We feel this is insane, and that Moore and then Fason will put him on the bench. I look at this situation and think 2004 Dolphins with better blockers. None of those guys were close to decent or to RB20 (Morris made RB31). Moost (9) of Morris's 13 career TDs game on the goal-line too, but that didn't make him good at it. And believe it or not, he was a more effective goal-line runner than Taylor.
First- Get over yourself and the heresay and show me proof that he is worse than RB20. Who is ahead of him?
LT
L. Johnson
S. Alexander
C. Portis
T. Barber
L. Jordan
S. Jackson
R. Johnson
R. Brown
E. James
C. Williams
Those I will conceed yes for sure... but even Cadillac is questionable that high
Westbrook? Reid has come out and said he'll run more. Westbrook is better as a receiving back, and more valuable, but ok.
Willie Parker? I'm not so sure about this. He is good, but he hasn't even carried the full load, and I believe there is talk already about him losing some carries, but I'll give him a ranking ahead of Taylor
Reuben Droughns? He lost 2 centers, Frye looks terrible... I'll give him 1000 yards, but I also give Taylor 1000 yards and more receptions than Droughns, so no I don't think he's better
Kevin Jones? Won't even break 1000 yards. All the hype about him but he has yet to prove himself. I say Taylor and Jones are a push, because I think Jones will have a lot of receptions this year
Julius Jones? Won't get goal line carries and Parcells has all but said flat out he likes Barber better than him. No way Jones out performs Taylor this season in a PPR league
Willis McGahee? Ok I'll give him that they signed Ricard, who blocked for Lewis during his 2000 yard season, but that offense is still sputtering. Jaron never had a good RB in chicago, and I think he's mentally unable to put together a good offense. Dink and dunk will never win a superbowl. McGahee and Taylor are a push just because McGahee has shown he can be a top 10 RB, but his team is just terrible.
Reggie Bush? He won't even be a featured back. Yeah, he's great, but anyone drafting Bush with the intentions of making him their #2 RB... please PM me so we can be in a money league this season.
Warrick Dunn? He's a good #2 RB, but his best days are behind him. No way he's going to outperform Taylor overall this season. In rushing yards, yes perhaps, but not total.
Domanick Davis? He hasn't even taken a hand off has he? What a complete bust he'll be this year
DeShaun Foster? How long until he's on the sideline with an injury and Williams is tearing it up.
Jamal Lewis? Nah, he lost his FB and we saw what he was capable of doing last year without Ricard...
Football guys has him projected as the 18RB and ranked at #22 RB. Ranked ahead of him are 4 RBs that may possibly lose carries, receptions, or goal line carries to another RB on the roster. No way Taylor is being out performed by guys splitting time.
I mentioned him getting 400 attempts? I believe you are mistaken. I said he would recieve 320 attempts a game if he was given the 20 carries the offensive coordinator has said they are planning on giving him. He also said 4-5 receptions, which works out to about 80 receptions... However not all passes are caught, so for argument sake let's say 3 receptions a game. In the end I will give MY prediction (not the MIN Offensive Coordinators) and say he will have about 300 TOUCHES- 250 attempts, 50 receptions. At that, going by his CONSISTANT averages... we're looking at 15 rushes a game, 1100 yards, 50 receptions at about 400 yards. So yes, I predict LaMont Jordan numbers
7. FBG's rankings may not be very accurate, but they are far and away more accurate than any other mainstream rankings, which makes them better by comparison. While rankings are much of a crapshoot to begin with, they have proven to be the pack leader by a good margin for a good few years running. They are just as prone to mistakes as everyone else (Ronnie Brown at RB6 ) but the stats clearly show they make them a great deal less often. He's ranked right at RB20, and IMO that's a good ranking for him. He's been given the opportunity to be the feature back and is a high-risk RB1, med-risk RB2 back.
Every year a few backs are overrated, and a few are underrated. I'm simply saying that Talyor may be the back that comes out of nowhere.
8. Taylor's receiving skills are overrated. He wasn't even the best receiving back on his team in Baltimore (Jamal Lewis averaged nearly 2 full yards better per reception), and he's very, very clearly not better than Mewelde Moore, who is likely to steal many of Taylor's receptions (and his job) this year. Brad Johnson is not the reason some people are down on Chester Taylor. Chester Taylor is the reason some people are down on Chester Taylor.
To add: Another big misconception about Taylor's prospects this year is the fact that MIN brought him in because of his receiving skills. Truthbetold, he is a much better inside than outside runner. Childress has said several times he wants to run the football and he wants Chester Taylor to hopefully be the guy that will run it. Childress didn't call the plays in PHI, he helped put together the game plan. He included a lot of running plays, but Reid never used them. Now he's HC in MIN, and wants to run the football. It is very likely you see Taylor as the regular back with Moore as the 3rd down back and Fason as change of pace. By season's end IMO you will have seen several combinaions of the three, with Moore probably emerging and then battling a few injuries along the way. Taylor will have a very tough time seeing more than 40 receptions, and will similarly have a very tough time getting 300+ carries.
First off, I'm not exactly sure where I got my 11 yards/reception average earlier. Last season Chestor Taylor averaged 7.1 while Lewis averaged 6.0. Of course Lewis is going to have better career averages than Taylor, Lewis was the featured back!! We almost never saw him come out of the game until last year when Chestor Taylor was given more carries and passes. Taylor had FOURTY ONE receptions last season! and he wasn't even a featured back. He was the 10th ranked RB in receptions... Chris Perry, Tony Fischer, and Marshall Faulk- all RBs known for their hands, ranked ahead of him. So he's not a receiving back? That makes no sense
In short, I think people are down on Chestor Taylor because they don't realize how much of a threat he really was out of the backfield in Baltimore. Over the last 4 years he only has 40 less receptions than the #1 RB Jamal Lewis. While his average is down, that's still quite a bit for a backup RB who's not supposed to be a RB known for his hands according to Mr. Brandow, but rather rushing up the middle. While yes, Moore has potential, but that's all he'll ever be. Show me a quote from a coach in Minnesotta recently that has said Moore has a chance to win the starting job. It's funny, people think Moore has got it in the bag practically by week 5, when the offensive coordinator has come out and said he'll start. Childress has come out and said he'll start. You really think Childress will spin the revolving door of runningbacks? He's a new coach, he can't show weakness by giving up on someone HE wanted so badly.
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Interseptopus
Footballguy
He is bad? Please see the previous posts defending him. He is by no accounts bad. If he was bad, he wouldn't have signed to be a starterHe is not going to beat out Moore? Ah but he has... please see the coaches' comments about the touches they would like to get himHe stinks? C'mon let's not bring his hygiene into this He's a backup? No... he WAS a backup. If I'm not mistaken, the other RBs on MIN were backups last season as well... He's fat? He weighs 7 or 8 more pounds than Moore, and he's the same height. I guess he must just really show it...Can't we all SHHH? Then this wouldn't be a productive threadI see school has not yet gotten back into session. We still have the kiddies posting the stupidest comments ever imaginable
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I guess you missed the thinly veiled attempt of negative propoganda to encourage people to AVOID taking Taylor by someone who WANTS to take Taylor.
M
MLBrandow
Guest
Ro,
Good points all around, and I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
He's on that RB20 cusp as a med-risk back, and naturally some feel that he will be a steal, and others feel he'll be a flop even at that ADP.
While I don't share the degree of CT hate as HK, I similarly feel he will fail all the same. It's not that I'm rooting against him, but I have zero faith in the ownership, the HC and the QB.
We'll see though. Adrian Peterson will be mighty hard to pass up next year.
Good points all around, and I think we'll just have to agree to disagree.
He's on that RB20 cusp as a med-risk back, and naturally some feel that he will be a steal, and others feel he'll be a flop even at that ADP.
While I don't share the degree of CT hate as HK, I similarly feel he will fail all the same. It's not that I'm rooting against him, but I have zero faith in the ownership, the HC and the QB.
We'll see though. Adrian Peterson will be mighty hard to pass up next year.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Brandow- you've made some good points too. I'll be honest, it's hard to argue with the stats you have presented. Agree to disagree is the best solution definately. I'm rooting for Taylor partly because I have him, and his sucess is key to mine... but overall only time will tell!I agree also that Adrian Peterson will be looking very nice to MIN... who knows I think SF will even get a stab at him.
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
edited to add sarcasm for those in need...Taylor is bad,He's not going to beat out Moore,He stinks,He's a backup,He's fat...Can't you all just SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Thanks for the assist!glock said:edited to add sarcasm for those in need...Taylor is bad,He's not going to beat out Moore,He stinks,He's a backup,He's fat...
montanagold
Footballguy
Thats it.. end of discussion. H.K. has lost all credibility. Any man that can't recognize Jessica Alba is definantly a blind man in more ways than one.I'm on record. No schtick. BTW, IIs this just schtick, or do you actually believe that Chester has no shot at being a decent RB?
your avatar...who is that?
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(Rotoworld) The Vikings offensive coordinator Darrin Bevell hopes to get Chester Taylor 25 touches a game.
Impact: While 400 touches is a lofty goal for a season, it's clear that Minnesota doesn't plan to use a committee. Taylor should produce huge totals if he stays healthy and will be a major fantasy bargain. The main concern: He hasn't topped 200 touches in a season before.
(KFFL) Don Seeholzer, of the Pioneer Press, reports Minnesota Vikings offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell has said RB Chester Taylor should receive about 20 carries per game, in addition to about five passes out of the backfield.
Both these clips were as of August 8th...
Impact: While 400 touches is a lofty goal for a season, it's clear that Minnesota doesn't plan to use a committee. Taylor should produce huge totals if he stays healthy and will be a major fantasy bargain. The main concern: He hasn't topped 200 touches in a season before.
(KFFL) Don Seeholzer, of the Pioneer Press, reports Minnesota Vikings offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell has said RB Chester Taylor should receive about 20 carries per game, in addition to about five passes out of the backfield.
Both these clips were as of August 8th...
wadegarrett
FFA Legend™
BoulderBob
Footballguy
Let somebody else draft him...
BigTex
Don't mess with Texas
Damn good post!
redman
Footballguy
The question here as to Taylor as an Vikings bargain RB acquisition basically is, "who is he more comparable to, Olandis Gary or Reuben Droughns, or even Priest Holmes?"
As a starter, if he's getting the bulk of the carries (15+/game) then he's going to be at least a RB2 in most leagues, end of story. I too like the Brad Johnson/PPR component and that makes him even more valuable.
We won't be able to know for sure how many carries he's likely to get until the 3rd or 4th preseason game at the earliest, and maybe even several weeks into the season.
As a starter, if he's getting the bulk of the carries (15+/game) then he's going to be at least a RB2 in most leagues, end of story. I too like the Brad Johnson/PPR component and that makes him even more valuable.
We won't be able to know for sure how many carries he's likely to get until the 3rd or 4th preseason game at the earliest, and maybe even several weeks into the season.
Billy Ball Thorton
Footballguy
RO-
Very well written posts
You have made me a believer!
Very well written posts
You have made me a believer!
Kiddies, That's funny! You have no idea how wrong. And just so you are aware, stupidest isn't a word. Dumbest would have been the proper use of the English language there. If we're pointing out intelligence.I'll wait, not offended at your missing of my sarcasm. For a polite apology...Back to that fat guy in Minny! He SUCKS! Don't draft him. He won't last thru the season, the Browns wanted him Badly two seasons ago, but they were wrong and grabbed Droughns instead! The Browns are smart!!!
Interseptopus
Footballguy
lol you're too funny. The most you can come back at me with is my improper grammar. That's why I went into the medical field...softball said:
The closest thing to an appology you will get from me is that I am sorry you are so dumb (there happy) as to come in here and say "he sucks, he stinks, he's fat, he's bad." You do make yourself look like such a dip by that post. If you really think he sucks, stinks, is fat, and is bad... then give some physical proof of that. The best argument you can come up with is that the Browns wanted him last year, but they got Droughns instead. LOL think back to last year for a minute... What was going on. I believe Jamal Lewis was in a halfway house because he spent time in JAIL. Baltimore didn't give up Taylor because their starting RB wasn't even at camp. Your starting RB spent time in jail and can't practice... do you trade your 2nd RB away? Hell no. Ok... look at Denver... Denver invested a 2nd round pick in Bell, and was given a great offer for Droughns. They were DEEP at RB. You're Denver... your starting RB just had a great season, but you have a lot of depth at RB. You are given a great deal for your RB, and you just saw what happened when you gave up Clinton Portis- he struggled to repeat his DEN numbers since being traded. I'd say Denver was a little arrogant more than anything, thinking they can turn any RB into a 1000+ rusher. And why shouldn't they think that!? They have!! Yeah, the Browns were smart, they got a good RB from Denver for less than they would have gotten a good RB from Baltimore. Taylor was much more valuable to Baltimore with Lewis wearing an orange jumpsuit than Droughns was with Tatum Bell waiting in the wings...And for the record, I didn't miss your sarcasm. I got it just fine. I just figured I'd add a little humor by dissecting what you were really trying to sayGAME SET AND MATCHYou're in over your head jr....I'll wait... not for you to make an intelligent post, but for you to say touché!
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-As it has been the past few days, the coaches have been putting the team in situations, and today was no different as the team worked in third down situations, as well as blitz pickup work.
The 1st team offensive line along with Chester Taylor and Tony Richardson did a great job stopping the blitz and giving Brad Johnson enough time to throw. The 2nd unit and Mewelde Moore however followed that performance by giving up three straight sacks. I've talked about it before, but poor blitz pickup may be what keeps Taylor on the field on third down.
"Mewelde, he's doing a good job, but I wouldn't say a great job yet," said Bevell. "It's still a learning process for him. Where to put his eyes, who he needs to target. We're still coming along with him."
The 1st team offensive line along with Chester Taylor and Tony Richardson did a great job stopping the blitz and giving Brad Johnson enough time to throw. The 2nd unit and Mewelde Moore however followed that performance by giving up three straight sacks. I've talked about it before, but poor blitz pickup may be what keeps Taylor on the field on third down.
"Mewelde, he's doing a good job, but I wouldn't say a great job yet," said Bevell. "It's still a learning process for him. Where to put his eyes, who he needs to target. We're still coming along with him."
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Could be. I'm not sure who's actually faster. As Brandow pointed out, he did very well in producing 100 total yard games... Although, I think if Moore was going to see the field (at least early on), it would be as a 3rd down back- possible threat out of the backfield. Taylor has the #1 job right now. I don't see them having Moore as a 1-2 down back and Taylor as a 3rd down back... at least not now. Maybe by week 8, but not week 1. I think it's Taylor's job to lose... but he in no means has a complete lock on it.
mightyeskimo
Footballguy
If you actually believe this then tea leaves are not the leaves you are reading!
Medical Equipment Sales... isn't the medical field...SUUUURE you got the sarcasm...doc....BTW: Here's my original reg. date. You got me by 21 days gramps...Registered on Jul 14 2003,lol you're too funny. The most you can come back at me with is my improper grammar. That's why I went into the medical field...softball said:
Oh yeah, nice team in that 10 Team League, there's a FF Challenge if there is one....
Banger
Footballguy
good point. I'm sure that's why Moore is running with the 2nd team as well. Now back to reality. The only chance I really saw for Moore to see the field was on 3rd downs but if he can't block he won't be the 3rd down back either. Looks like all Chester all the time!!
Ned
Footballguy
Interseptopus
Footballguy
first, no not medical equipment sales... I'm sorry you need to run down my chosen profession because it puts yours to shamewhether or not I got your sarcasm is beyond the point. Your post was childish, and I was pointing that outHow does your registration date mean anything? I must have missed something where that held ANY importanceAnd last... your sarcasm about my fantasy football team just proves how childish you really are. I put you in your place my backing up my claims with facts and stats, and the only thing you can do is make fun of my league and team. This team is in a very competative league and if you could read you would see it is in an auction league.All I have to say to you is, please post something intelligent next time, because I'm tired of babysitting and won't respond to anything else. Back to what this topic was designed to discuss... Chestor Taylor and people who would like to make intelligent claims on how they think he'll do...I'm interested to see how he does tonight. Oakland isn't much of a challenge, but I'll definately have an eye on him. As it was pointed out earlier- It's hard to see Moore in as a 3rd down back, when last year he was taken out for those downs... We may see him more on punt/kick returns and some spot duty at RB.Medical Equipment Sales... isn't the medical field...SUUUURE you got the sarcasm...doc....BTW: Here's my original reg. date. You got me by 21 days gramps...Registered on Jul 14 2003,lol you're too funny. The most you can come back at me with is my improper grammar. That's why I went into the medical field...
I wish that could happen in my league. Stupid homers.
C
CrossEyed
Guest
I got Chester as my RB4 in round 7. He's my insurance in a 12 team PPR league behind Jordan, Westbrook and Kevin Jones. SOD.
Real Man of Genius
Footballguy
ptts buddyCrossEyed said:
C
CrossEyed
Guest
ptts?
Mystery Achiever
Footballguy
i think this refers to a piece of clothing.great pick!
C
CrossEyed
Guest
Ah, yes.
Tau837
Footballguy
M
MLBrandow
Guest
Let he who is without vision cast the first defense.
Steelers4Life
Footballguy
LOL, I've watched the guy enough times and been impressed by him enough times to not concern myself much with the first 9 carries of his first preseason game as a starting RB behind a newly formed offensive line. All the talent in the world still needs a little time to gel before they really get going.
But I love watching people overreact based on the first quarter of the first preseason games of the year!
But I love watching people overreact based on the first quarter of the first preseason games of the year!
