Max Power
Footballguy
The scouting reports I've read seem to be crapping all over this kid.
Are you saying this in attempt to make us feel better or do you truely see something in him?
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Chicago Bears 2012 Offseason Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter benson_will_lead_the_way
- Start date
Matt Waldaman seems to be pretty high on him. Had him as his 4th ranked TE and has been takling about him on twitter since the Bears took him. In Waldaman I trust.
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
I understand that thinking completely. But there's been plenty of speculation that McClellin was indeed very highly valued by several other teams, and all it takes is one of those to move in (or make the pick if it's their spot) to nab a guy the Bears really liked. Besides, they got Jeffery, who's arguably as good as Wright (albeit very different players).Just curious, McClellin was barely top 10 at his position in some rankings. If the Bears had taken Kendall Wright in the first round, what are the odds McClellin would have been there for them in the 2nd? At a minimum they could have traded down to a later pick and still get McClellin.
Max Power
Footballguy
Seems to be compared to Garrett Mills and James Casey. Just not as good. Well neither of those guys made a mark on the NFL. How is Rodriguez any different?
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
I should first clarify that I'm a Bears fan, so I an sincere in my praise for Rodriguez. All despite other scouting reports, in al the film I saw he looked to me like a good blocker. Plus, as I noted in my post about Jeffery, I'm a big hands fan, and Rodriguez has nice hands along with good speed.
Dave Baker
Damn glad to meet you
Not sure who I would compare Rodriguez to, but it's certainly not Mills or Casey. Maybe Dustin Keller?
candymanvandyfan
Footballguy
I'd like to see them take Taylor Thompson.
I'm shocked (not sure why) by how negative everyone is about the draft on here. The Bears had 5 significant weaknesses heading into the draft (in no paticular order):
1. DE
2. WR
3. LT
4. TE
5. DB
Round 1. They took a DE that, I have read, is versital enough to potentially take over for Urlacher or Briggs in a couple of years.
Round 2. They took a high potential WR. By the way, we went from one of the shortest WR groups to one of the tallest.
Round 3. They took a TALL safety. Yeah, it's stupid that they have taken so many safeties over the Lovie's tenure, but if they aren't panning out, don't they need to keep getting more? I don't care if they took 8 safeties last year, if they all suck then they still need a safety. Plus, the kid is TALL. Playing against the Packers and Lions, I vote that we take a DB in the first 3 rounds every year.
Round 4. They took a TE/FB/Joker. for all of you that cried when they traded Olsen, this is what Emery could get to make up for it.
Is it the best draft ever? I don't know. But they have addressed needs with every pick. Was Oline the biggest need? I don't know, but I know that the Bears are a better offensive team today than they were last year.
For anyone who says that the offensive line isn't going to better than it was last year, I think that you are blind to facts. The Bears took a RT in the first round last year. He barely played due to injury, therefor it is kind of like the Bears are getting a first round RT this year. The line as a whole is young and looked pretty good at times last year. That indicates that they have potential and *should* improve as they get expereience. And, please don't tell me that offensive scheme does not effect offensive line scheme. Over the last two years everyone has said that Martz gets his QBs killed. Then, when reports come out that someone put Martz in his place, the scheme changes (keep a TE in, less 5-7 step drops) and the line plays better. Finally, Cutler getting hurt obviously effected the Bear's offense. They played much differently after his injury. If it is "cherry picking stats" to say that the oline played well the last 5 games before Cutler's injury, then it is "cherry picking stats" to say that they played terribly after Cutler got hurt.
Now, I know the line needs help still, but gosh, I think the Bears have addressed every other need this offseason. There were a lot of needs. Please, don't blame Emery for inheriting a team that has a lot of holes. At least he is actively trying to fill them.
1. DE
2. WR
3. LT
4. TE
5. DB
Round 1. They took a DE that, I have read, is versital enough to potentially take over for Urlacher or Briggs in a couple of years.
Round 2. They took a high potential WR. By the way, we went from one of the shortest WR groups to one of the tallest.
Round 3. They took a TALL safety. Yeah, it's stupid that they have taken so many safeties over the Lovie's tenure, but if they aren't panning out, don't they need to keep getting more? I don't care if they took 8 safeties last year, if they all suck then they still need a safety. Plus, the kid is TALL. Playing against the Packers and Lions, I vote that we take a DB in the first 3 rounds every year.
Round 4. They took a TE/FB/Joker. for all of you that cried when they traded Olsen, this is what Emery could get to make up for it.
Is it the best draft ever? I don't know. But they have addressed needs with every pick. Was Oline the biggest need? I don't know, but I know that the Bears are a better offensive team today than they were last year.
For anyone who says that the offensive line isn't going to better than it was last year, I think that you are blind to facts. The Bears took a RT in the first round last year. He barely played due to injury, therefor it is kind of like the Bears are getting a first round RT this year. The line as a whole is young and looked pretty good at times last year. That indicates that they have potential and *should* improve as they get expereience. And, please don't tell me that offensive scheme does not effect offensive line scheme. Over the last two years everyone has said that Martz gets his QBs killed. Then, when reports come out that someone put Martz in his place, the scheme changes (keep a TE in, less 5-7 step drops) and the line plays better. Finally, Cutler getting hurt obviously effected the Bear's offense. They played much differently after his injury. If it is "cherry picking stats" to say that the oline played well the last 5 games before Cutler's injury, then it is "cherry picking stats" to say that they played terribly after Cutler got hurt.
Now, I know the line needs help still, but gosh, I think the Bears have addressed every other need this offseason. There were a lot of needs. Please, don't blame Emery for inheriting a team that has a lot of holes. At least he is actively trying to fill them.
I have read a lot of comparisons to a poor man's Aaron Hernandez or Cooley. Better blocker than Hernandez, but not as dynamic.
Max Power
Footballguy
I'd love for this kid to pan out and I'll admit that I haven't seen him play. I'm happy that he is being considered a TE and not a fullback. However his highlight video is very underwhelming.http://www.patriots.com/media-center/videos/2012-Draft-Prospects---Evan-Rodriguez-FB/85aeb272-e42b-47f4-81c1-0411f697e71d
candymanvandyfan
Footballguy
Late round notions
David Molk
Zebrie Sanders
Matt McCants
Chris Rainey
Juron Criner
Michael Brewster
David Molk
Zebrie Sanders
Matt McCants
Chris Rainey
Juron Criner
Michael Brewster
candymanvandyfan
Footballguy
SMH...remember that name.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
This guy gets it.
KCitons
Footballguy
Everyone has there own ideas on how they can make the Bears better in the off season. That's part of the fun. By your own account, you have LT on the list as a need. What have the Bears done to fix that problem? While we can agree that changes in offense and the return of injured players may improve things from last year, it doesn't account for the fact that Webb is still only 60/40 to be a true starting LT in this league. At this point, we just need to look within the division to see what the Bears will have to deal with. Detroit = Sue/Avril Minn = Allen/Williams GB = Added Perry, Worthy and Hargrove this off season.At this point, there has been NOTHING done to improve the LT position in Chicago. With the next pick being in the 6th round, I don't think there is an opportunity to get someone that can step in and beat out Webb. This worries me.
Marvin
Footballguy
Yeah nothing amazing but I saw some decent blocks in there.
The point I was making is that Emery inherited a team with many holes. You can't fix everything at once. If you have a (some think) guru offensive line coahc running your offense that says "I think Webb can play LT, let me work with him," it makes sense to fill other needs. There are a lot of vaiables to running a team, I don't think we should judge Emery yet. I'm all for discussing needs and what picks could have/should have been made, but this thread is pretty negative.
KCitons
Footballguy
I don't know if I would call it negative (except Flapgreen) as much as I would call it critical. I would be on board with the McClellin, Jeffery and possibly the Rodriguez pick if the Bears would have addressed the LT concerns during FA. Everyone agrees, based on history to this point, Webb is not a guarantee to be the starting LT for the entire 2012 season (even without an injury) As a team that has a closing window, why would you take such a gamble at such an important position?I've said it over and over in this thread, yet no one can answer this question. WHO IS THE BEARS LT BEHIND WEBB ????? We know who the backup QB is, We know who the backup RB is, We know who the #2 WR is. We know who the #2 DE is. You can argue, that you can't fill all the needs right away. But it looks like the Bears are playing Russian roulette on OL. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when.
flapgreen
Footballguy
If they addressed the OL, most of the negativity would end. For those thinking changing the OC alone will make the line good, you're only fooling yourselves. Don't be delusional. Only the biggest homers don't see it as a position of need, especially over backup safties and special teams players. The fact that they have done little to improve the line through free agency and the draft is disappointing, to say the least. Carimi is coming off a serious knee injury, much like Colombo's, as is CW, yet they still see no need to draft or sign another tackle. It's beyond ridiculous.
No one is saying Emery stinks already, not even close. Honestly, I think this is much more Lovie and Tice than it is Emery. After being hired, he said he was going to do his best to get Lovie the players he wanted, and not force players on him, which is understandable at first.
And the "offensive line guru" label placed on Tice is a joke. I still don't know where that came from. There have been plenty of chances to upgrade talent on the line, and it hasn't been done. It's almost like Tice wants to prove how good he is by turning duds into studs. It hasn't worked out so far, and Tice has looked like a fool in the process. We shall see how his ineptness continues.
No one is saying Emery stinks already, not even close. Honestly, I think this is much more Lovie and Tice than it is Emery. After being hired, he said he was going to do his best to get Lovie the players he wanted, and not force players on him, which is understandable at first.
And the "offensive line guru" label placed on Tice is a joke. I still don't know where that came from. There have been plenty of chances to upgrade talent on the line, and it hasn't been done. It's almost like Tice wants to prove how good he is by turning duds into studs. It hasn't worked out so far, and Tice has looked like a fool in the process. We shall see how his ineptness continues.
flapgreen
Footballguy
If the Bears would've addressed OL in the first four rounds, I'd admit my reaction to the McCellin pick was over board. That hasn't happened, though. And there were so many guys there in rounds 3 and 4 to do so. Instead, we decided to make 2 very questionable picks on guys who weren't even very successful at their own positions in college.
KCitons
Footballguy
Time will tell. But each pick so far seems to have an "IF" factor to it.
IF McClellin can play multiple spots, and possibly take over for Briggs or Urlacher he could be a great pick. (what is he if he doesn't can he at least give us a #2 pass rusher opposite Peppers, because that's what we really need)
IF Jeffrey's plays like he did in 2010, instead of the lardo he was in 2011 then he could be a #1a for the Bears (since we have Marshall, are we concerned about him over producing his draft position? Can he at least make defenses respect both sides of the field?)
IF Hardin is healthy he could be the Tampa 2 Free Safety that the Bears have been trying to draft since Lovie started with the Bears. (why not take a DB in later rounds and try picking another position, learn from your mistakes)
IF Rodriguez learned from his off field problems and can learn to block, then he could be another lite version of A Hernandez. (based on college career, we won't know what he can do rushing out of the backfield)
Address the problem, find the solution. Let's not settle for guys that do multiple things OK, let's add guys that do what we need, really well.
IF McClellin can play multiple spots, and possibly take over for Briggs or Urlacher he could be a great pick. (what is he if he doesn't can he at least give us a #2 pass rusher opposite Peppers, because that's what we really need)
IF Jeffrey's plays like he did in 2010, instead of the lardo he was in 2011 then he could be a #1a for the Bears (since we have Marshall, are we concerned about him over producing his draft position? Can he at least make defenses respect both sides of the field?)
IF Hardin is healthy he could be the Tampa 2 Free Safety that the Bears have been trying to draft since Lovie started with the Bears. (why not take a DB in later rounds and try picking another position, learn from your mistakes)
IF Rodriguez learned from his off field problems and can learn to block, then he could be another lite version of A Hernandez. (based on college career, we won't know what he can do rushing out of the backfield)
Address the problem, find the solution. Let's not settle for guys that do multiple things OK, let's add guys that do what we need, really well.
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twistd
Footballguy
I've been as frustrated as everyone else by the Bears ignoring the O line, but Greg Cosell seems to think that Webb has the tools to play LT. He had the Bears picking Kendall Wright. He posted this in his mock draft:
Wright's vertical explosiveness is a strong scheme fit with Jay Cutler, a see it, throw it passer who often waits for his receivers to get open at the intermediate and deeper levels. Many will argue that offensive tackle is a pressing need, but having watched every 2011 Bears game on tape, I believe LT J'Marcus Webb has the physical skill set to play the position, showing improvement as the season progressed. In addition, Chicago drafted Gabe Carimi in the first round last year; he will be the right tackle. In a division that features Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford, the Bears will need to score to compete.
His assessment makes me feel a little better about the tackle position, but I would still like to see improvement both in the interior of the line, and for depth at the tackle positions.
Wright's vertical explosiveness is a strong scheme fit with Jay Cutler, a see it, throw it passer who often waits for his receivers to get open at the intermediate and deeper levels. Many will argue that offensive tackle is a pressing need, but having watched every 2011 Bears game on tape, I believe LT J'Marcus Webb has the physical skill set to play the position, showing improvement as the season progressed. In addition, Chicago drafted Gabe Carimi in the first round last year; he will be the right tackle. In a division that features Aaron Rodgers and Matthew Stafford, the Bears will need to score to compete.
His assessment makes me feel a little better about the tackle position, but I would still like to see improvement both in the interior of the line, and for depth at the tackle positions.
candymanvandyfan
Footballguy
These things happen.
I have seen several analysts that think Webb showed improvement last year and that the line should improve.As far as Flap's statement about saying that a change is scheme wont make the line good. That can be argued, but what can't be argued is that changing the scheme wont help the line. It will. Not maybe, not could, it will help that Cutler can change the play at the line, it will help that he isn't taking 5-7 step drops, it will help that he has hot route options.
By the way, I thought Flap was leaving?
KCitons
Footballguy
And, this is his first time getting into trouble. Sure, you have to have a first, before you have a second. But, hopefully he learns from it. Not sure how he fits into the Bears as a Tampa 2 corner.
There are IF's in every pick and every free agent signing, especially after the first few picks. Definately after the first couple of rounds. The thing about picking guys with more If's is that if the IF's come true, you may have a stud.More IF's = Higher ceiling, lower floorLess IF's = Lower ceiling, higher floor Of course, that assumes that the player was drafted in the right spot. Emery has been HIGHLY touted as a college scout. Hard to think that he is picking guys that he hasn't done a ton of research on.
KCitons
Footballguy
I don't see the upside of Frey. He seems to fit into a block of about 8 other available CB's. Not sure he is going to push Jennings or Moore. Why not take Dennard or Wade? There is much more upside for your 6th round pick.
Oh well, I guess that's why the Bears didn't hire me as the GM.
Oh well, I guess that's why the Bears didn't hire me as the GM.
flapgreen
Footballguy
I am. I've lingered around too long believing the Bears could redeem themselves and draft OL, but not a single one.
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
Like the Jeffrey pick. (even if i did perform the deep explosive element Stephen hill would have brought).. the bears needed 2 legitimate outside wrs. Earls a slot, no more devin hester staring wr project. bears wrs look much better with earl as wr3, hester/Knox/whomever as wr4.
bears upgraded offense in a big way. finally jay has talent at wr.
bears upgraded offense in a big way. finally jay has talent at wr.
ditka...mike ditka
Footballguy
fixed
Marvin
Footballguy
Well yeah. I figured that was pretty much a given.
Marvin
Footballguy
twistd
Footballguy
I would hope you are right. Emery's strong point is supposed to be as a college scout. So I want to give him the benefit of the doubt as far as the draft picks go. My biggest issue remains the o line. For them to be successful, Webb has to improve a lot, and stay healthy. Carimi has to be fully healthy, and develop. Chris Williams has to play better. This guard they signed has to be better at right guard than what they had last year. The starters aren't all that good, so they don't have any depth. There are a lot of question marks. They are taking a lot of risk here. If everyone stays healthy and the development occurs, then this could be an average o line. But if they run in to injuries, or some of these players don't step up their season could be over quickly. I think this is a mistake Angelo consistently made and I am worried that Emery is starting off the same way, overestimating the offensive line talent they have. I think they count too much on potential, and ignore a lack of production. I'd like to know what the back up plan is if Webb doesn't play better or gets hurt.
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Max Power
Footballguy
Bears run a new formation consisting of 4 OL, 6 WR and a QB. Of course one WR will be ineligible, but you don't let the D know which one until right before the snap. The D has no time to react and will have to leave one man on him. As good as blocked
KCitons
Footballguy
Funny how the Bears took 2 CB with the last two picks in the draft. Yet, chose to stay away from A Dennard. Then the Patriots take Dennard 4 picks later. 
He will get through his off the field problems this summer, and be a starting CB for the Patriots either this year or next.
He will get through his off the field problems this summer, and be a starting CB for the Patriots either this year or next.
KCitons
Footballguy
This could work out well. Unfortunately, the defenses will know which WR will be the one blocking. Clue: it's the fat guy with the name Jeffrey on the back. (he now has the bank roll for 4th and 5th meal)Bears run a new formation consisting of 4 OL, 6 WR and a QB. Of course one WR will be ineligible, but you don't let the D know which one until right before the snap. The D has no time to react and will have to leave one man on him. As good as blocked
ZWK
Footballguy
The Bears had a nice 5-game stretch because Cutler did a good job of getting rid of the ball, not because the offensive line did a good job of protecting him.There's actually data on this: Pro Football Focus counts dropbacks, pressures, and sacks (their detailed data is behind a paywall, but this and this are relevant). Leaguewide, quarterbacks are pressured on about 32% of their dropbacks (on average) and sacked on 19% of the pressures. Over the full season, Bears QBs were pressured on 40% of their dropbacks (most in the NFL), and sacked on 23% of their pressures (23rd in the NFL - a bit more than average).'Almas_4th_Child said:
What was working during those 5 games? Let's break the season down into Cutler's first 5 games, Cutler's last 5 games, Hanie, and McCown. Here's the percent of dropbacks where the QB was pressured:
38% - Cutler's first 5 games
40% - Cutler's last 5 games
41% - Hanie
41% - McCown
No sign of improvement from the line - it's basically flat. Allowing a lot of pressure all season.
And here's the percent of pressures where the QB was sacked:
26% - Cutler's first 5 games
7% - Cutler's last 5 games
35% - Hanie
24% - McCown
During the 5-game stretch that Biggs picked out, Cutler did an amazing job of getting rid of the ball when he was pressured. Hanie was awful at it, and McCown & early-season Cutler were mediocre.
So it doesn't look like the problem was "fixed" during those 5 games, unless the solution is that Cutler's so good that, when he's on, he can make plays even behind a line that's allowing a ton of pressure.
Power Monster
The Midnight Stalker
Hard to grade out players at this point but the Bears have certainly made some moves in the draft and FA to bring in some playmakers on the offensive side of the ball.
I am on board with being frustrated about no OL help in the draft thus far.
While the team is trying to fill holes with "versatile" players to step in and contribute in September, it may be a stretch to think that you can get value from players that may or may not have the talent to slide into multiple positions. When that does not pan out, you may run the risk of a wasted draft class.
Obviously, McClellin and Jeffery will certainly be in the spotlight with the first rounder being thrust into a position that he may not be suited for and Jeffery having some risk with his focus.
I don't know about the corners as I thought that we needed depth at linebacker but it seems like the team is always shooting for corners. I think that the defensive players they drafted are going to have to step up and be strong.
I am on board with being frustrated about no OL help in the draft thus far.
While the team is trying to fill holes with "versatile" players to step in and contribute in September, it may be a stretch to think that you can get value from players that may or may not have the talent to slide into multiple positions. When that does not pan out, you may run the risk of a wasted draft class.
Obviously, McClellin and Jeffery will certainly be in the spotlight with the first rounder being thrust into a position that he may not be suited for and Jeffery having some risk with his focus.
I don't know about the corners as I thought that we needed depth at linebacker but it seems like the team is always shooting for corners. I think that the defensive players they drafted are going to have to step up and be strong.
Marvin
Footballguy
He will? Why didn't you tell the Bears that?Funny how the Bears took 2 CB with the last two picks in the draft. Yet, chose to stay away from A Dennard. Then the Patriots take Dennard 4 picks later.
KCitons
Footballguy
I tried, Lovie doesn't listen (not just to me, but it appears he doesn't listen to Emery either)He will? Why didn't you tell the Bears that?Funny how the Bears took 2 CB with the last two picks in the draft. Yet, chose to stay away from A Dennard. Then the Patriots take Dennard 4 picks later.
CutlerToCutler
Footballguy
Lovie Smith: “I’ve been involved every year I’ve been here with the draft. I was involved this year.” That's the problem Dr. Love. It didn't work other years either. 
flapgreen
Footballguy
Website that keeps up with UDFA signings. http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2012-nfl-undrafted-free-agents
Chicago Bears
Ronnie Cameron, DT, Old Dominion
James Brown, OL, Troy
Trevor Coston, S, Maine
Chris Summers, WR, Liberty
Chicago Bears
Ronnie Cameron, DT, Old Dominion
James Brown, OL, Troy
Trevor Coston, S, Maine
Chris Summers, WR, Liberty
flapgreen
Footballguy
OT James Brown, Troy (OG) 6-3, 306
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1724805/james-brown
http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/03/james-brown-scouting-report/
Extremely versatile and productive, he can play any of four positions but will be first tried out at left tackle. Athletic, he moves well and shuffles fine, and he could be ready to do far more with the potential to bulk up at least 15 pounds. In the right system, and with a little work, he could be a dominant guard, but he could prove to be too valuable on the outside as long as he wants to do the little things to make it happen. While he’s good on the field, his workouts weren’t anything special and there might be a hard limit on what he can become talent-wise, but he’s coachable and he’ll do whatever is needed to find a spot. Can he be a killer? He’ll be a starter, but considering his lack of explosion he has to make up for it by ramping up the intensity.
Proj 3-4 round
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1724805/james-brown
http://nflsfuture.com/2012/02/03/james-brown-scouting-report/
Extremely versatile and productive, he can play any of four positions but will be first tried out at left tackle. Athletic, he moves well and shuffles fine, and he could be ready to do far more with the potential to bulk up at least 15 pounds. In the right system, and with a little work, he could be a dominant guard, but he could prove to be too valuable on the outside as long as he wants to do the little things to make it happen. While he’s good on the field, his workouts weren’t anything special and there might be a hard limit on what he can become talent-wise, but he’s coachable and he’ll do whatever is needed to find a spot. Can he be a killer? He’ll be a starter, but considering his lack of explosion he has to make up for it by ramping up the intensity.
Proj 3-4 round
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SmoovySmoov
The Way of the Samurai
Plus, he's a Sex Machine.
