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Chris Ivory's value if Pierre doesn't come back? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ppierce
- Start date
THE SNOWMAN
Footballguy
By how much? .. Same % as when he was playing earlier this year? Less, more? Betts?
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I think his value goes up when Bush comes back, not down. Bush opens up the offense and it helps, not hurts anyone. Ivory is a big body who can run downhill and I think will take over for PT from here on in. PT's injury isn't getting any better after all these weeks of waiting. If it's this long to see any incremental improvement, I'd think they should just shut him down.
As an Ivory owner, I heartily welcome back a healthy Reggie Bush. How anyone could see that as a negative is beyond me.
As an Ivory owner, I heartily welcome back a healthy Reggie Bush. How anyone could see that as a negative is beyond me.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
It depends on the oline of the Saints. Right now the way they are blocking I wouldn't own a Saints RB. If they get their act together and start playing like last year and open some holes Ivory could be a beast in the 2nd half of the season especially with the Saints traveling north for some road games in the colder months.
bocksheesh
Footballguy
Link?
EFD
Footballguy
Really? It's beyond you to see how Bush getting touches will hurt Ivory?Let me see if I can help explain it. There are only so many touches available per game. Every time Bush touches the ball it means that Ivory is not touching the ball. Now it remains to be seen if Ivory does more with his touches because Bush is in the game too, but it's certainly not hard to see how Bush getting touches instead of Ivory could hurt Ivory.
My personal opinion is that Bush will hurt Betts more than Ivory, as Betts seems to be the RB on obvious passing downs, whereas Ivory seems to be the 1st & 2nd down type back. At best I'd call it a wash for Ivory to have Bush playing, but I still think the odds are it hurts more than helps.
gethugefast1
Footballguy
This week (vs Pitt)...none
The Carnage
Footballguy
http://www.neworleans.com/sports/...I'm always curious when someone asks for a link. Did you try looking for the info and couldn't find it, or do you distrust the poster?
ThePittbully
Footballguy
If you don't think the return of reggie bush helps Ivory, you have a gross misunderstanding of this saints offense. Having Reggie in the game will help the entire Saints offense, meaning more yards and more points. More important than that it will greatly help the Saints downhill rushing attack. The presence of bush forces opposing defenses to hesitate giving blockers and runners a better chance to be succesaful. Someone here did a writeup on the Vikings game that did a good job of explaining what bush does for this team when he doesn't have the ball. Pierre and Ivory owners should read it
Dawg Pound 69
Footballguy
Ivory will get more rushing yards once Bush returns. But Payton seems to like Reggie in the red zone, so Ivory's won't get many touchdowns. And of course he wasn't getting many receptions while Bush was out, and he'll get even less upon his return.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I agree. But as the bye weeks come and go, I see Bush being more valuable going forward with more overall upside.
gethugefast1
Footballguy
Reggie Bush-RB-Saints Oct. 30 - 6:42 pm et
Profootballtalk.com reports that Reggie Bush (leg) isn't expected to return until Week 11 at the earliest.
Bush's fractured fibula has healed more slowly than expected. Although the former Trojan has been medically cleared to run, he hasn't been given clearance for practice. He was given a four-to-six week timetable to recover, but Monday marks the six-week point. Bush owners will be forced to wait close to another month for the RB3. Unless you're desperate for fantasy playoff depth in a PPR league, Bush doesn't get enough touches to warrant the roster spot.
Source:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...back-next-week/
Profootballtalk.com reports that Reggie Bush (leg) isn't expected to return until Week 11 at the earliest.
Bush's fractured fibula has healed more slowly than expected. Although the former Trojan has been medically cleared to run, he hasn't been given clearance for practice. He was given a four-to-six week timetable to recover, but Monday marks the six-week point. Bush owners will be forced to wait close to another month for the RB3. Unless you're desperate for fantasy playoff depth in a PPR league, Bush doesn't get enough touches to warrant the roster spot.
Source:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/...back-next-week/
footballsavvy
Footballguy
The problem is that Ivory doesn't get receptions. He's almost useless in my leagues since they are PPR. They clearly replaced Pierre with a gross combination of Ivory and Betts. Perhaps Ivory can magically learn pass protection in the next couple of weeks and get more receptions - but im not holding my breath.
When Reggie comes back, not much will change. He only gets a few rush attempts per game and even those few were likely replacing would-be pass plays.
When Reggie comes back, not much will change. He only gets a few rush attempts per game and even those few were likely replacing would-be pass plays.
ThePittbully
Footballguy
I think people assume Ivory can't pass protect or catch because that's not how they use him, but that's not entirely true. Ive never seen him whiff on a block, and he has done pretty well in pass protection when used that way. I also think he can catch and be used in the receiving game, but I just don't think his routes are sharp enough to run anything more than a screen, but he's caught two passes since he's been with the team one was a poorly thrown ball by Brees that he took 17 yards and they other was a dump off in preseason that went 76
Addai's Adidas
Footballguy
I did not see the game this week but 99 yards and TD sticks out pretty well. What happened today? Have the Saints found their RB?
Addai's Adidas
Footballguy
looking for some more info from those who saw this game PLZ.
I will say this. Ivory is a beast of a runner. He uses his shouilder to just knock people over. If he got 20+ carries a week he would do damage. Im not so sure Bush hurts him as Ivory is not a pass catcher and Thomas got his when bush was there. I can still see Ivory getting 15-20 carries. BUT thomas return could hurt. Ivory is a above average back with decent speed and extremly good power, Again i was so amazed at how he was destroying folks with his shoulder.
LittlePhatty
Footballguy
For Keeper leagues, does Ivory have a shot at being the guy next year? Some people have said Pierre Thomas will probably be moving on to another team.
RBM
Footballguy
I think it will come down to either him or Hamilton coming back from injury.
Here is a great analysis of Ivory . When the other team calls you a beast thats a pretty good thing. Im in the boat of needing a Rb for the next few weeks and probally taking Ivory over Kieland Williams , Goodsen , Morris . He looked that good to me and hes on a top offense team.
NEW ORLEANS – Seahawks free safety Earl Thomas offered a quick response on New Orleans reserve running back Chris Ivory.
“He’s a beast,” he said.
Seahawks fans had been hoping to see some hard running from Marshawn Lynch, but Ivory was the one who went “Beast Mode” on Sunday. With Reggie Bush’s return pushed back another week, Ivory became the focal point of the Saints’ running game, finishing with 99 yards on 23 carries, including a 1-yard dive over the pile at the goal line for New Orleans, his first touchdown as a pro.
At 6-foot and 222 pounds, Ivory repeatedly broke tackles and bullied his way through Seattle up front.
“He was just running strong,” said Seattle defensive back Roy Lewis. “He kept his feet moving and ran his tail off today. We had him wrapped up at times, and he found a way to squirt out. So obviously we’ve just got to do a better job of holding on.”
Ivory’s a former Washington State Cougar who played three seasons there but was limited because of injuries, finishing with 534 yards during his time in the Palouse.
Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2010/11/22/1448...l#ixzz161hsMrep
From Rotoworld
Ivory uses that shoulder as a violent weapon, so there is always a concern that he will keep aggravating this preexisting injury. But for now, it sounds like he will be all systems go for Thursday. Ivory surprisingly emerged from the Saints' backfield committee to rack up a career-high 23 carries in Sunday's win over the Seahawks. Nov. 22 - 8:14 am et
His physical style worked well against an undersized Seattle team prone to missing tackles. Ivory managed to injure two Seahawks' defenders simply by running them over, to the point where he aggravated his previous shoulder injury in the second quarter. Though he returned following halftime, he wasn't nearly as effective. It was an impressive performance, but his upside is limited with Reggie Bush's expected return in Week 12.
NEW ORLEANS – Seahawks free safety Earl Thomas offered a quick response on New Orleans reserve running back Chris Ivory.
“He’s a beast,” he said.
Seahawks fans had been hoping to see some hard running from Marshawn Lynch, but Ivory was the one who went “Beast Mode” on Sunday. With Reggie Bush’s return pushed back another week, Ivory became the focal point of the Saints’ running game, finishing with 99 yards on 23 carries, including a 1-yard dive over the pile at the goal line for New Orleans, his first touchdown as a pro.
At 6-foot and 222 pounds, Ivory repeatedly broke tackles and bullied his way through Seattle up front.
“He was just running strong,” said Seattle defensive back Roy Lewis. “He kept his feet moving and ran his tail off today. We had him wrapped up at times, and he found a way to squirt out. So obviously we’ve just got to do a better job of holding on.”
Ivory’s a former Washington State Cougar who played three seasons there but was limited because of injuries, finishing with 534 yards during his time in the Palouse.
Read more: http://www.theolympian.com/2010/11/22/1448...l#ixzz161hsMrep
From Rotoworld
Ivory uses that shoulder as a violent weapon, so there is always a concern that he will keep aggravating this preexisting injury. But for now, it sounds like he will be all systems go for Thursday. Ivory surprisingly emerged from the Saints' backfield committee to rack up a career-high 23 carries in Sunday's win over the Seahawks. Nov. 22 - 8:14 am et
His physical style worked well against an undersized Seattle team prone to missing tackles. Ivory managed to injure two Seahawks' defenders simply by running them over, to the point where he aggravated his previous shoulder injury in the second quarter. Though he returned following halftime, he wasn't nearly as effective. It was an impressive performance, but his upside is limited with Reggie Bush's expected return in Week 12.
saintfool
Dead sexy
um, in 8 games for the saints he has exactly 1 td. in those 8 games, he has exactly one game over 100 yards but i'll give him credit for the 99 yards this week. so he has 2 games where he's about 100 yards. he also has only 1 reception. so he's torn up two teams - Tampa and Seattle - while be very pedestrian otherwise. he looks good because he runs hard but i'm not ready to anoint him as the future.what hurts his value is that he isn't a 3 down back. payton likes to pass to his RB's either on screens or out of the backfield. ivory hasn't shown anything like that capacity yet.
Breesisdaman
Footballguy
Ivory had holes and blocking for the most part but even when he didnt he made things happen himself like the first and short carry where he ran through and bounced off the pile and ran for a nice gain. I can only see Ivory's stock rising and even when/if PT comes back I would expect to see Ivory involved. Where he has the most value is dynasty and I expect an Ivory / Bush backfield next season.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i think payton likes ivory. he calls him "special" and whatnot. pierre would be well served to be all-pro while he's on the field because he surely looks to be the odd man out in NO. if he's not playing for a contract in NO then he's playing for a contract elsewhere (like NE who has shown interest). i like ivory; he's fun to watch. he just hasn't shown enough to me to think he is an upgrade over pierre.
I'm hesitant to say he has any value this year. I don't think Thomas is coming back any time soon but if he does then that caps Ivory's upside. New Orleans absolutely slaughtered Seattle so there were enough plays and enough of a lead to make Ivory a valid play. I see it like Mike Bell last year. He's a good finisher when the Saints are ahead and perhaps to set the tone at the beginning of the game with some hard running. However, when they are catching up, Ivory will barely see the field as they preferred to use their committee with Jones and Betts. With Bush coming in next week, most likely, I think it means that we won't see 15+ carries from Ivory unless the Saints start going on a tear like they were last year, build up a lead, and Ivory gets to run against a soft defense. I think that's a tall order, especially seeing as the Saints haven't been as dominating on offense though perhaps they are on an upswing. The next two weeks are decent matchups for RBs with Dallas and Bengals but not nearly as good as Seattle and Tampa Bay were and the three weeks after that will be tough with STL, BAL, and ATL so that's one point against him already. I'd still take a flyer if I had the room but I'm holding onto Bush over Ivory right now. Not feeling too great about either so it would be nice to have them both but we'll see if the saints can produce a viable RB this year.
zamboni
Footballguy
Rookie rushing yards:
Ivory: 636 yards (5.2 YPC)
Blount: 599 yards (4.5 YPC)
Best: 447 yards (3.3 YPC)
Matthews: 382 yards (4.4 YPC)
Spiller: 199 yards (4.1 YPC)
Just as expected before the season started.
This Ivory kid is a player - seems like the only thing between him and a rookie 1000 yard season is Pierre Thomas.
Ivory: 636 yards (5.2 YPC)
Blount: 599 yards (4.5 YPC)
Best: 447 yards (3.3 YPC)
Matthews: 382 yards (4.4 YPC)
Spiller: 199 yards (4.1 YPC)
Just as expected before the season started.
This Ivory kid is a player - seems like the only thing between him and a rookie 1000 yard season is Pierre Thomas.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i would argue that it is payton's playcalling or the RBBC they use that is holding him back from the 1000 season. that said, he is largely feasting on weaker opponents and seems to struggle against more credible ones.Rookie rushing yards:
Ivory: 636 yards (5.2 YPC)
Blount: 599 yards (4.5 YPC)
Best: 447 yards (3.3 YPC)
Matthews: 382 yards (4.4 YPC)
Spiller: 199 yards (4.1 YPC)
Just as expected before the season started.
This Ivory kid is a player - seems like the only thing between him and a rookie 1000 yard season is Pierre Thomas.
zamboni
Footballguy
Maybe, but you could probably say the same about all but the top RBs.If you look at his game logs, just about every time he's gotten more than 10 carries, he's had a solid YPC. I would agree it's the RBBC situation that holds him back - he's a guy that seems to thrive with more rather than few carries.i would argue that it is payton's playcalling or the RBBC they use that is holding him back from the 1000 season. that said, he is largely feasting on weaker opponents and seems to struggle against more credible ones.Rookie rushing yards:
Ivory: 636 yards (5.2 YPC)
Blount: 599 yards (4.5 YPC)
Best: 447 yards (3.3 YPC)
Matthews: 382 yards (4.4 YPC)
Spiller: 199 yards (4.1 YPC)
Just as expected before the season started.
This Ivory kid is a player - seems like the only thing between him and a rookie 1000 yard season is Pierre Thomas.
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