Christopher Ivory returns from PuP Week 7 (1 Viewer)

[Welshie]

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2011/10/new_orleans_saints_showing_the.html

He had a pretty nice run in 2010.

I would begin this conversation by saying I think Sproles' role at this point is 100% safe. He'll continue to contribute at the rate he's contributing.

But Ingram has been unimpressive (3.5 yds per carry) and Thomas doesn't seem to have won a more significant role in the offense.

Is it possible that Ivory could step in and basically take both of their roles and become the 15 attempts per game guy and get the rushing work in the red zone?

He did get seven games with double-digit carries in 2010, and four games with 15 or more out of 12 total.

 

[shader]

http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2011/10/new_orleans_saints_showing_the.html

He had a pretty nice run in 2010.

I would begin this conversation by saying I think Sproles' role at this point is 100% safe. He'll continue to contribute at the rate he's contributing.

But Ingram has been unimpressive (3.5 yds per carry) and Thomas doesn't seem to have won a more significant role in the offense.

Is it possible that Ivory could step in and basically take both of their roles and become the 15 attempts per game and get the rushing work in the red zone?

He did get seven games with double-digit carries in 2010, and four games with 15 or more out of 12 total.

Have you watched the games or just reading stats?

 

[packersfan]

Barring injury, I would expect Ivory to be a gameday inactive most weeks unless he's a real good special teams player. I think Ingram, Sproles and Thomas are all more talented and appear to be locked into the New Orleans backfield. I don't see Ivory being more than a depth guy at this point.

 

[Warhogs]

Buried behind the likes of Sproles, Ingram and Thomas unless an injury occurs. No opportunity at the present time.

 

[loose circuits]

Barring injury, I would expect Ivory to be a gameday inactive most weeks unless he's a real good special teams player. I think Ingram, Sproles and Thomas are all more talented and appear to be locked into the New Orleans backfield. I don't see Ivory being more than a depth guy at this point.

/thread

 

[BobbyLayne]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

His 2010 production came after injuries to PT and Bush. So give him credit for being better than Ladell Betts and Julius Jones, but not Ingram or Sproles.

The OP acts like the Saints RBs aren't getting the job done. Individually, OK...but as a group, they're 3rd - only two teams out of 31 others are better - in FF points scored by RBs. I don't see Ivory supplanting anyone.

 

[AmosMoses]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

Chris Ivory went to Tiffin.Tiffin.

The other two went to Illinois and K-State.

He was undrafted (to be fair, so was the Cruiser).

He looked average when I have seen him. The eyeball test means a lot to me; rather trust my own analysis over reading someone else's opinion (unless it's Waldman - that guy is great at breaking specific skills down watching tape).

 

[AmosMoses]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

Chris Ivory went to Tiffin.Tiffin.

The other two went to Illinois and K-State.

He was undrafted (to be fair, so was the Cruiser).

He looked average when I have seen him. The eyeball test means a lot to me; rather trust my own analysis over reading someone else's opinion (unless it's Waldman - that guy is great at breaking specific skills down watching tape).

Ivory went to Washington St before a non-football related event sent him to a smaller school willing to take a risk on him. Washington St = Kansas St = Illinois. They are all middling programs in second tier conferences.But if you just don't think he passes your test, I can't argue with that. I think he runs hard, hits holes fast enough, and doesn't hesitate. That goes far IMO.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

Chris Ivory went to Tiffin.Tiffin.

The other two went to Illinois and K-State.

He was undrafted (to be fair, so was the Cruiser).

He looked average when I have seen him. The eyeball test means a lot to me; rather trust my own analysis over reading someone else's opinion (unless it's Waldman - that guy is great at breaking specific skills down watching tape).

Ivory went to Washington St before a non-football related event sent him to a smaller school willing to take a risk on him. Washington St = Kansas St = Illinois. They are all middling programs in second tier conferences.But if you just don't think he passes your test, I can't argue with that. I think he runs hard, hits holes fast enough, and doesn't hesitate. That goes far IMO.

Sproles was Kansas h.s. player of the Year and top 5 in Heisman.Thomas is considered one of the top ten backs in Illinois h.s. history. Hey, it's not Texas, but its something.

Ivory was 2 star recruit coming out of h.s. He was BURIED in the depth chart at Wash State when he got suspended.

Not even close. Not close at all.

 

[AmosMoses]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

Chris Ivory went to Tiffin.Tiffin.

The other two went to Illinois and K-State.

He was undrafted (to be fair, so was the Cruiser).

He looked average when I have seen him. The eyeball test means a lot to me; rather trust my own analysis over reading someone else's opinion (unless it's Waldman - that guy is great at breaking specific skills down watching tape).

Ivory went to Washington St before a non-football related event sent him to a smaller school willing to take a risk on him. Washington St = Kansas St = Illinois. They are all middling programs in second tier conferences.But if you just don't think he passes your test, I can't argue with that. I think he runs hard, hits holes fast enough, and doesn't hesitate. That goes far IMO.

Sproles was Kansas h.s. player of the Year and top 5 in Heisman.Thomas is considered one of the top ten backs in Illinois h.s. history. Hey, it's not Texas, but its something.

Ivory was 2 star recruit coming out of h.s. He was BURIED in the depth chart at Wash State when he got suspended.

Not even close. Not close at all.

Perfectly equal. Washington State = Kansas State = Illinois.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

Chris Ivory went to Tiffin.Tiffin.

The other two went to Illinois and K-State.

He was undrafted (to be fair, so was the Cruiser).

He looked average when I have seen him. The eyeball test means a lot to me; rather trust my own analysis over reading someone else's opinion (unless it's Waldman - that guy is great at breaking specific skills down watching tape).

Ivory went to Washington St before a non-football related event sent him to a smaller school willing to take a risk on him. Washington St = Kansas St = Illinois. They are all middling programs in second tier conferences.But if you just don't think he passes your test, I can't argue with that. I think he runs hard, hits holes fast enough, and doesn't hesitate. That goes far IMO.

Sproles was Kansas h.s. player of the Year and top 5 in Heisman.Thomas is considered one of the top ten backs in Illinois h.s. history. Hey, it's not Texas, but its something.

Ivory was 2 star recruit coming out of h.s. He was BURIED in the depth chart at Wash State when he got suspended.

Not even close. Not close at all.

Perfectly equal. Washington State = Kansas State = Illinois.

Could not crack the starting lineup at Washington State does not equal

All-American Heisman candidate

or even All-Big Ten honorable mention.

Could not crack the lineup in college until he left the BCS program that gave him one of their last scholarships. One of the final guys to get a full ride is not the same as being best player in the state and is definitely not the same as arguably best player ever in the state.

But dense is still dense, no matter you break it down.

 

[LawFitz]

Ivory has tremendous burst and toughness, but his vision, hands and awareness are suspect, especially compared to the RBs in front of him.

I tell you what though, Ivory throws a ***** in the armor of the thought process that if one of Sproles or Thomas goes down, Ingram becomes an instant stud RB. 2 headed RBBC is tolerable, 3 headed is not. And If Ivory is good to go, that might destroy the potential attrition value of any of the top three as the season wears.

 

[GreenNGold]

Why are you guys arguing about college? This is irrelevant as Ivory has already shown the ability to produce at a high level in the NFL.

 

[AmosMoses]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

Chris Ivory went to Tiffin.Tiffin.

The other two went to Illinois and K-State.

He was undrafted (to be fair, so was the Cruiser).

He looked average when I have seen him. The eyeball test means a lot to me; rather trust my own analysis over reading someone else's opinion (unless it's Waldman - that guy is great at breaking specific skills down watching tape).

Ivory went to Washington St before a non-football related event sent him to a smaller school willing to take a risk on him. Washington St = Kansas St = Illinois. They are all middling programs in second tier conferences.But if you just don't think he passes your test, I can't argue with that. I think he runs hard, hits holes fast enough, and doesn't hesitate. That goes far IMO.

Sproles was Kansas h.s. player of the Year and top 5 in Heisman.Thomas is considered one of the top ten backs in Illinois h.s. history. Hey, it's not Texas, but its something.

Ivory was 2 star recruit coming out of h.s. He was BURIED in the depth chart at Wash State when he got suspended.

Not even close. Not close at all.

Perfectly equal. Washington State = Kansas State = Illinois.

Could not crack the starting lineup at Washington State does not equal

All-American Heisman candidate

or even All-Big Ten honorable mention.

Could not crack the lineup in college until he left the BCS program that gave him one of their last scholarships. One of the final guys to get a full ride is not the same as being best player in the state and is definitely not the same as arguably best player ever in the state.

But dense is still dense, no matter you break it down.

Hey look.. I tried

 

[BobbyLayne]

Why are you guys arguing about college? This is irrelevant as Ivory has already shown the ability to produce at a high level in the NFL.

Actually its quite relevant.Ivory has show an ability to produce at a high level in the New Orleans system when they are playing NFL teams that have difficulty stopping the run. He did not even dress four of the five games when both Bush and Thomas were healthy and active. From week four to week twelve, those two totaled one carry and one receptions. Ivory didn't get an opportunity because he was talented, he got his chance because he was healthy *(which he isn't at the moment).

But maybe that's a fluke. What about his production in college? The only year he put up stats was at D-II Tiffin. But what about when he was in a BCS program? Didn't even start, and we're talking about an average program with no great talents in front of him. Well what when he was recruited. Two star recruit, the kind of kid who goes to Northern Illinois or Nevada State or rides the bench at a big time program.

The thought progression shouldn't be that hard to follow. He is not an elite talent, never has been. But if he becomes healthy again and regains his form from last years form - big if - and if one of the three RBs carrying a light load for the Saints becomes hurt, then he might have some value. Though last year it wasn't until two RBs got hurt and two veterans (Betts and J. Jones) failed that he got his opportunity.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

Chris Ivory went to Tiffin.Tiffin.

The other two went to Illinois and K-State.

He was undrafted (to be fair, so was the Cruiser).

He looked average when I have seen him. The eyeball test means a lot to me; rather trust my own analysis over reading someone else's opinion (unless it's Waldman - that guy is great at breaking specific skills down watching tape).

Ivory went to Washington St before a non-football related event sent him to a smaller school willing to take a risk on him. Washington St = Kansas St = Illinois. They are all middling programs in second tier conferences.But if you just don't think he passes your test, I can't argue with that. I think he runs hard, hits holes fast enough, and doesn't hesitate. That goes far IMO.

Sproles was Kansas h.s. player of the Year and top 5 in Heisman.Thomas is considered one of the top ten backs in Illinois h.s. history. Hey, it's not Texas, but its something.

Ivory was 2 star recruit coming out of h.s. He was BURIED in the depth chart at Wash State when he got suspended.

Not even close. Not close at all.

Perfectly equal. Washington State = Kansas State = Illinois.

Could not crack the starting lineup at Washington State does not equal

All-American Heisman candidate

or even All-Big Ten honorable mention.

Could not crack the lineup in college until he left the BCS program that gave him one of their last scholarships. One of the final guys to get a full ride is not the same as being best player in the state and is definitely not the same as arguably best player ever in the state.

But dense is still dense, no matter you break it down.

Hey look.. I tried

I'm sorry, I should not resort to insults to wrap up an argument. That was weak, my bad.

 

[Welshie]

Why are you guys arguing about college? This is irrelevant as Ivory has already shown the ability to produce at a high level in the NFL.

And that's really where the premise of this thread comes from. The point is he was actually a pretty productive back for them in 2010. And really, before it became apparent that he would start the year on PuP, I think he was considered as much in the mix for time as any of the other three. You're talking about a guy that averaged 5.2 ypc on 137 last season. It's not like he was a bum who blew up for one game. He carried a significant portion of the load. Payton is obviously going to go with whoever the hot hand is in any particular game. And in that respect, if Ivory ends up getting active each week, then it's going to dilute everyone except Sproles. But I kind of expect by season's end, Thomas will be almost completely out of the picture unless someone gets hurt and it'll be Sproles in the passing game with Ingram and Ivory splitting carries. And if that ends up being the case, then Ivory probably deserves roster consideration, because he's an injury away from being a pretty significant factor.

 

[Casting Couch]

When I saw Pierre running against the same defenses as Ivory last year,

Ivory consistently put up better numbers. I think Ivory is a RB who will make noise when he returns.

College stats aside, this kid is an NFL caliber player with great burst and decent power.

 

[GreenNGold]

Why are you guys arguing about college? This is irrelevant as Ivory has already shown the ability to produce at a high level in the NFL.

Actually its quite relevant.Ivory has show an ability to produce at a high level in the New Orleans system when they are playing NFL teams that have difficulty stopping the run. He did not even dress four of the five games when both Bush and Thomas were healthy and active. From week four to week twelve, those two totaled one carry and one receptions. Ivory didn't get an opportunity because he was talented, he got his chance because he was healthy *(which he isn't at the moment).

But maybe that's a fluke. What about his production in college? The only year he put up stats was at D-II Tiffin. But what about when he was in a BCS program? Didn't even start, and we're talking about an average program with no great talents in front of him. Well what when he was recruited. Two star recruit, the kind of kid who goes to Northern Illinois or Nevada State or rides the bench at a big time program.

The thought progression shouldn't be that hard to follow. He is not an elite talent, never has been. But if he becomes healthy again and regains his form from last years form - big if - and if one of the three RBs carrying a light load for the Saints becomes hurt, then he might have some value. Though last year it wasn't until two RBs got hurt and two veterans (Betts and J. Jones) failed that he got his opportunity.

Reggie Bush put up some pretty good numbers in college. How did that turn out?

 

[Breesisdaman]

Ivory can not stay healthy. Other than that he is probably the strongest between the tackles guy on the squad (Yes stronger than Ingram) He is not as versatile as Ingram. He may get a taste but not much.

 

[AmosMoses]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

I know this might be derailing the conversation, but why do you think Ivory has less talent than Thomas or Sproles? They all came from roughly the same level of football program.

Chris Ivory went to Tiffin.Tiffin.

The other two went to Illinois and K-State.

He was undrafted (to be fair, so was the Cruiser).

He looked average when I have seen him. The eyeball test means a lot to me; rather trust my own analysis over reading someone else's opinion (unless it's Waldman - that guy is great at breaking specific skills down watching tape).

Ivory went to Washington St before a non-football related event sent him to a smaller school willing to take a risk on him. Washington St = Kansas St = Illinois. They are all middling programs in second tier conferences.But if you just don't think he passes your test, I can't argue with that. I think he runs hard, hits holes fast enough, and doesn't hesitate. That goes far IMO.

Sproles was Kansas h.s. player of the Year and top 5 in Heisman.Thomas is considered one of the top ten backs in Illinois h.s. history. Hey, it's not Texas, but its something.

Ivory was 2 star recruit coming out of h.s. He was BURIED in the depth chart at Wash State when he got suspended.

Not even close. Not close at all.

Perfectly equal. Washington State = Kansas State = Illinois.

Could not crack the starting lineup at Washington State does not equal

All-American Heisman candidate

or even All-Big Ten honorable mention.

Could not crack the lineup in college until he left the BCS program that gave him one of their last scholarships. One of the final guys to get a full ride is not the same as being best player in the state and is definitely not the same as arguably best player ever in the state.

But dense is still dense, no matter you break it down.

Hey look.. I tried

I'm sorry, I should not resort to insults to wrap up an argument. That was weak, my bad.

You are good. No offense taken here, BL.

 

[Zigg]

Anyone who saw Ivory run last year must know that there is definitely potential there. He was a bull when given the ball, but couldn't stay healthy. As a saint fan, drafting Ingram made no sense because of what was already there and Payton's throw first philosophy. Ivory has no value because there is no place for him, but the talent is there.

 

[Disc Shark]

Barring injury, I would expect Ivory to be a gameday inactive most weeks unless he's a real good special teams player. I think Ingram, Sproles and Thomas are all more talented and appear to be locked into the New Orleans backfield. I don't see Ivory being more than a depth guy at this point.

Agreed.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Agreed - FAR less talent smaller contract than the three in front of him.

This is simply not true. In fact, you could make a very good case that he is the best pure between-the-tackles running back of the five.

Thomas is a better all-around player, and so is Sproles. But Ingram hasn't shown the burst or breakaway speed that Ivory has running it up the gut.

Don't get me wrong, Ivory is clearly 4th in the pecking order just because you can't afford to sit the other 3. But to say he's a far-worse talent is just flat wrong. If Ivory doesn't pass your eye test, I would respectfully submit there's something wrong with your eyes, because he is a straight-up beast.

 

[FarEastKilla]

Mark him down as a goal line vulture and another mouth to feed in NO.