Chuck Schumer should resign. (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

As I watched the hearings last night I was struck by how irresponsible Trump was. Whether or not he was directly involved in inciting the riot, whether or not he deliberately refused to stop them (guess we will find or both of these things),we already know his statements beforehand helped to create the atmosphere that caused Jan 6. Perhaps not illegal, but disgraceful and shameful, and worthy by themselves of keeping this man from ever again being our President. 
 

Which leads me to Chuck Schumer. I’ve never had much of an opinion about the guy either for or against, other than he’s on my side on a majority of issues. But last spring he made incendiary comments about Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, predicting they would “reap the whirlwind.” I didn’t pay much attention. But now, in the wake of last nights hearings, and learning about the assassination attempt on Kavanaugh, I’ve rather belatedly come to the conclusion that what Schumer said last year was shameful as well. And that he should resign from office. 

We can’t have this sort of thing anymore. 

 

[Dez89]

We can only hope that you and your side "belatedly" come around on a lot of things.

 

[timschochet]

We can only hope that you and your side "belatedly" come around on a lot of things.

Such as? 

 

[Max Power]

What happens when he doesn't resign?

 

[Dez89]

Such as? 

Such as falling victim to the relentless media/left wing narrative.  Why didn't you pay much attention to his comments last year or other incendiary comments made by Democrats?

 

[sho nuff]

We can only hope that you and your side "belatedly" come around on a lot of things.

Seems his side has come around often…when with the right do the same and not embrace such things from their leaders?

 

[squistion]

As I watched the hearings last night I was struck by how irresponsible Trump was. Whether or not he was directly involved in inciting the riot, whether or not he deliberately refused to stop them (guess we will find or both of these things),we already know his statements beforehand helped to create the atmosphere that caused Jan 6. Perhaps not illegal, but disgraceful and shameful, and worthy by themselves of keeping this man from ever again being our President. 
 

Which leads me to Chuck Schumer. I’ve never had much of an opinion about the guy either for or against, other than he’s on my side on a majority of issues. But last spring he made incendiary comments about Gorsuch and Kavanaugh, predicting they would “reap the whirlwind.” I didn’t pay much attention. But now, in the wake of last nights hearings, and learning about the assassination attempt on Kavanaugh, I’ve rather belatedly come to the conclusion that what Schumer said last year was shameful as well. And that he should resign from office. 

We can’t have this sort of thing anymore. 

Schumer's "reap the whirlwind" comments were from March of 2020 (not last spring) so it seems an unlikely that this was the cause that prompted this disturbed individual to make an assassination attempt on Kavanaugh over two years later. Schumer's unfortunate mixing of metaphors were inappropriate but at the time I didn't think (and still don't) that he was calling for actual physical violence against these justices. 

 

[timschochet]

Schumer's "reap the whirlwind" comments were from March of 2020 (not last spring) so it seems an unlikely that this was the cause that prompted this disturbed individual to make an assassination attempt on Kavanaugh over two years later. Schumer's unfortunate mixing of metaphors were inappropriate but at the time I didn't think (and still don't) that he was calling for actual physical violence against these justices. 

So from two years ago. It doesn’t matter to me. 
And I agree with you that I doubt Schumer was deliberately trying to incite violence, or had any impact on this latest assassination attempt. That doesn’t matter to me either. I still think he should resign over it. 

 

[timschochet]

What happens when he doesn't resign?

Nothing. I’m just expressing my thoughts. 

 

[HellToupee]

How about when you hit 80 you resign 

 

[timschochet]

Such as falling victim to the relentless media/left wing narrative.  Why didn't you pay much attention to his comments last year or other incendiary comments made by Democrats?

I don’t believe in the “relentless media/left wing narrative”, so I’m not worried about falling victim to it. 
To answer your question, I’ve always tried to pay attention to incendiary comments from all sides, and condemn them when I’ve heard them. For example, I may be the biggest critic of Maxine Waters on this board. I honestly didn’t think Schumer’s comments rose to her level. But in retrospect I have changed my mind. 

 

[Dez89]

I don’t believe in the “relentless media/left wing narrative”, so I’m not worried about falling victim to it.

Ahh well then I guess it must not exist and you haven't been manipulated by it.  Carry on.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Now we stand here today because behind me, inside the walls of this Court, the Supreme Court is hearing arguments, as you know, for the first major abortion rights cases since Justice Kavanaugh and Justice Gorsuch came to the bench. ...

From Louisiana, to Missouri, to Texas — Republican legislatures are waging war on women — all women. And they’re taking away fundamental rights. I want to tell you Gorsuch, I want to tell you Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind and you will pay the price. You won’t know what hit you if you go forward with these awful decisions.

The bottom line is very simple: we will stand with the American people. We will stand with American women. We will tell President Trump and Senate Republicans who have stacked the court with right-wing ideologues, that you’re gonna be gone in November and you will never be able to do what you’re trying to do now, ever, ever again. You hear that over there on the far-right? You’re gone in November.

 I think that Schumer's claim that Republican politicians are acting in concert to take away fundamental reproductive rights of women is proving to be true everyday.  I think that the [implication that] recent GOP Supreme Court additions are just partisan actors in this (and other) effort is more true than we should like.   I think Schumer is wrong in the opinion that the GOP actors in all of this will "pay the price".  They never do.

Ultimately though I think this is largely analysis completely consistent with what you - @timschochethas posted.  Maybe the rhetoric is stronger that you would go  [maybe you don't sort of quote Kavanaugh], maybe you aren't in a position of power, etc., etc. but calling for resignation based on expressing the same thoughts you have posted doesn't make any sense.   What is shameful is that the GOP won't pay the price.

 

[timschochet]

Ahh well then I guess it must not exist and you haven't been manipulated by it.  Carry on.

Correct on both counts. 

 

[Dez89]

So from two years ago. It doesn’t matter to me. 
And I agree with you that I doubt Schumer was deliberately trying to incite violence, or had any impact on this latest assassination attempt. That doesn’t matter to me either. I still think he should resign over it. 

Are the Republicans and right-wingers trying to incite violence?

Sorry, this is my first day wandering into the Political Forum.

 

[John123]

What about Pelosi?  She still hasn't had a vote on the bill that passed the senate UNANIMOUSLY to protect the SC justices and their families.  That's pretty shameful in it's own right. 

We can't have sort of thing any more.

 

[Max Power]

Nothing. I’m just expressing my thoughts. 

Understood, but I will point out this is where a comparison to Trump's situation veers off. Plenty of people who condemned Trump's rhetoric just don't support a full on congressional investigation into the events.

Would you support one for Chuck and/or do you think there will be one?

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

What about Pelosi?  She still hasn't had a vote on the bill that passed the senate UNANIMOUSLY to protect the SC justices and their families.  That's pretty shameful in it's own right. 

We can't have sort of thing any more.

Was Kavanaugh not protected?  At his home?  And is Pelosi against this protection?  Are democrats?

 

[timschochet]

 I think that Schumer's claim that Republican politicians are acting in concert to take away fundamental reproductive rights of women is proving to be true everyday.  I think that the recent GOP Supreme Court additions are just partisan actors in this (and other) effort is more true than we should like.   I think Schumer is wrong in the opinion that the GOP actors in all of this will "pay the price".  They never do.

Ultimately though I think this is largely analysis completely consistent with what you - @timschochethas posted.  Maybe the rhetoric is stronger that you would go, maybe you aren't in a position of power, etc., etc. but calling for resignation based on expressing the same thoughts you have posted doesn't make any sense.   What is shameful is that the GOP won't pay the price.

You missed the key point. He did not tell GOP actors that they would pay the price. He told Korsuch and Kavanaugh. You are stretching by calling them partisan GOP actors. I don’t agree with many of their decisions either, and especially not on abortion,  but that is the system we have and it’s a good one. 
Schumer was irresponsible for saying they would pay the price and reap the whirlwind. That’s incendiary language and it’s resign worthy IMO. 

 

[timschochet]

What about Pelosi?  She still hasn't had a vote on the bill that passed the senate UNANIMOUSLY to protect the SC justices and their families.  That's pretty shameful in it's own right. 

We can't have sort of thing any more.

It’s not good form IMO. But she doesn’t need to resign over it. 

 

[Max Power]

Are the Republicans and right-wingers trying to incite violence?

Sorry, this is my first day wandering into the Political Forum.

After that first question, your follow up statement was a given.

But welcome

 

[timschochet]

Understood, but I will point out this is where a comparison to Trump's situation veers off. Plenty of people who condemned Trump's rhetoric just don't support a full on congressional investigation into the events.

Would you support one for Chuck and/or do you think there will be one?

No. 
Unless you have information that Chuck knew the assassin and/or had a role in not arresting him. That’s what the 1/6 investigation is about, not Trump’s rhetoric. 

 

[Dez89]

After that first question, your follow up statement was a given.

But welcome

I can see now that I was right in avoiding it.  Will probably try to stay away again.

 

[timschochet]

Are the Republicans and right-wingers trying to incite violence?

Sorry, this is my first day wandering into the Political Forum.

Some of them are. 

 

[squistion]

So from two years ago. It doesn’t matter to me. 
And I agree with you that I doubt Schumer was deliberately trying to incite violence, or had any impact on this latest assassination attempt. That doesn’t matter to me either. I still think he should resign over it. 

So, if it were 5 or 10 years ago against some other members of SCOTUS you'd feel exactly the same...got it.

The point is, you didn't seem to care at the time it was made or since then until today to say anything...and now suddenly you are so disturbed by it that you are demanding his resignation. 

 

[Leroy Hoard]

How about when you hit 80 you resign 

Let's make it 75. It could be our Diamond Jubilee. 

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

So from two years ago. It doesn’t matter to me. 
And I agree with you that I doubt Schumer was deliberately trying to incite violence, or had any impact on this latest assassination attempt. That doesn’t matter to me either. I still think he should resign over it. 

Oh come on, what did he mean by it then, pontificating from the pulpit as he was in front of several thousand people...

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

You missed the key point. He did not tell GOP actors that they would pay the price. He told Korsuch and Kavanaugh. You are stretching by calling them partisan GOP actors. I don’t agree with many of their decisions either, and especially not on abortion,  but that is the system we have and it’s a good one. 
Schumer was irresponsible for saying they would pay the price and reap the whirlwind. That’s incendiary language and it’s resign worthy IMO. 

I added some text I assume after you quoted me.

First Schumer's statement is implying that the two Trump appointees are just partisan actors  which should make the rest of sentence make more sense ("more true than we'd like".

Second the "whirlwind" stuff is Schumer sort of quoting Kavanaugh.

“Since my nomination in July, there’s been a frenzy on the left to come up with something, anything to block my confirmation,” he said. He referred to Democrats calling him “evil.” Then he turned directly to Democratic senators on the committee. “You sowed the wind,” he said, and “the country will reap the whirlwind.”

So sorry no!

 

[timschochet]

So, if it were 5 or 10 years ago against some other members of SCOTUS you'd feel exactly the same...got it.

The point is, you didn't seem to care at the time it was made or since then until today to say anything...and now suddenly you are so disturbed by it that you are demanding his resignation. 

That is correct. I thought about it more and changed my mind. That’s what I do. 
Not trying to toot my own horn here, but I honestly do believe the world would be a better place if more folks were willing to reconsider their initial reactions to news upon more thoughtful reflection. 

 

[Max Power]

No. 
Unless you have information that Chuck knew the assassin and/or had a role in not arresting him. That’s what the 1/6 investigation is about, not Trump’s rhetoric. 

How would we know without an investigation?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I think Schumer's comments were inappropriate and ill-considered, but resignation is going too far IMO.  Just a forthright apology and a renewed commitment to knock it off with this stuff is okay with me. 

Everybody needs to chill with this kind of language.  If that wasn't obvious in 2020 after 1/6, it sure should be now.  I'm less interested in punishing people for stuff that's already happened than I am in reinstituting the norms that used to tell us that this sort of thing is bad.    

 

[AAABatteries]

Can we have the entirety of Congress resign?  Maybe we could get somebody to actually do the job.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Can we have the entirety of Congress resign?  Maybe we could get somebody to actually do the job.

Actually this would be okay too.

 

[dkp993]

As should…. All this rot.   It’s time for a massive clean up of our own backyard.  

 

[dkp993]

Can we have the entirety of Congress resign?  Maybe we could get somebody to actually do the job.

Actually this would be okay too.

I’m down with that too.  Though I am concerned we’d get more MTG’s then we’d like.  But below is certainly a good place to start.  

As should…. All this rot.   It’s time for a massive clean up of our own backyard.  

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

You missed the key point.

As far as missing the key point I think you are.  The problem with Schumer's comments is that they make sense to us.  That the Supreme Court has become a partisan institution, especially with the circumstances surrounding those two nominations (and the one that follows).  That a Supreme Court nominee would threaten Democratic senators.  That a senator would echo those words back.  That the president would then echo the words back to the senator.  And on and on.

I have trouble finding Schumer's words "shameful" because they are no different than the words that just about every political actor and commentator and poster from anywhere on the spectrum might make.  And that is the "shameful" part.  That we have allowed our democracy to decay this much that this tearing down of our institutional norms is just par for the course.  Now a few posters around here come out with "be the change that you want" from time to time.  Schumer certainly failed here, but if his comments are such that resignation should be demanded than we are in trouble as we will be disqualifying just about everyone.

 

[supermike80]

That is correct. I thought about it more and changed my mind. That’s what I do. 
Not trying to toot my own horn here, but I honestly do believe the world would be a better place if more folks were willing to reconsider their initial reactions to news upon more thoughtful reflection. 

I agree!  The New York Times and Washington Post seem to do this regularly!

Tee hee

 

[quick-hands]

What happens when he doesn't resign?

He reaps the whirlwind and he won't see it coming.

 

[parasaurolophus]

Have we made it to the finale yet where Tim changes his mind and Schumer should not resign? 

 

[dickey moe]

How about when you hit 80 you resign 

Would solve a lot of problems. 

 

[djmich]

I don’t know if he should resign but certainly apologize and be way more cool.

 

[BladeRunner]

As far as missing the key point I think you are.  The problem with Schumer's comments is that they make sense to us.  That the Supreme Court has become a partisan institution, especially with the circumstances surrounding those two nominations (and the one that follows).  That a Supreme Court nominee would threaten Democratic senators.  That a senator would echo those words back.  That the president would then echo the words back to the senator.  And on and on.

I have trouble finding Schumer's words "shameful" because they are no different than the words that just about every political actor and commentator and poster from anywhere on the spectrum might make.  And that is the "shameful" part.  That we have allowed our democracy to decay this much that this tearing down of our institutional norms is just par for the course.  Now a few posters around here come out with "be the change that you want" from time to time.  Schumer certainly failed here, but if his comments are such that resignation should be demanded than we are in trouble as we will be disqualifying just about everyone.

That's a lot of words to just say, "I agree with rcam and Toby - they deserve this because that's what they signed up for." 

 

[flapgreen]

Interesting 

 

[ekbeats]

As far as missing the key point I think you are.  The problem with Schumer's comments is that they make sense to us.  That the Supreme Court has become a partisan institution, especially with the circumstances surrounding those two nominations (and the one that follows).  That a Supreme Court nominee would threaten Democratic senators. 

What?  Gorsuch did no such thing.  Here is the full context of what he said in his opinion statement:
 

Since my nomination in July, there’s been a frenzy on the left to come up with something, anything to block my confirmation. Shortly after I was nominated, the Democratic Senate leader said he would “oppose me with everything he’s got.” A Democratic senator on this committee publicly referred to me as evil. Evil. Think about that word. And said that those that supported me were “complicit and evil.” Another Democratic senator on this committee said, “Judge Kavanaugh is your worst nightmare.” A former head of the Democratic National Committee said, “Judge Kavanaugh will threaten the lives of millions of Americans for decades to come.”

I understand the passions of the moment. But I would say to those senators: Your words have meaning. Millions of Americans listened carefully to you. Given comments like those, is it any surprise that people have been willing to do anything to make any physical threat against my family? To send any violent email to my wife, to make any kind of allegation against me, and against my friends, to blow me up and take me down.

You sowed the wind for decades to come. I fear that the whole country will reap the whirlwinds. The behavior of several of the Democratic members of this committee at my hearing a few weeks ago was an embarrassment. But at least it was just a good old-fashioned attempt at Borking. Those efforts didn’t work.

Maybe you have a misunderstanding of what the word "reap" means.  It doesn't mean "to deliver".  It means "to suffer negative consequences".  Gorsuch wasn't threatening anyone there.  Quite the opposite - he was condemning Senators for their dirty tactics and over-the-top personal attacks, which he feared would be the new standard going forward, with the country suffering the consequences - not the Senators.  

Ironically the exact thing Gorsuch was railing against here - incendiary rhetoric that he believes may have led to physical threats against his family - is the exact same thing that Schumer did a year and a half later.

 

[ekbeats]

I don’t know if he should resign but certainly apologize and be way more cool.

Schumer never did apologize for it.   The closest he came was saying he "should not have used the words" he'd spoken.  But then a few sentences later he blasts everyone else for misinterpreting what he said - "I didn't intend to suggest anything other than political and public opinion consequences for the Supreme Court, and it is a gross distortion to imply otherwise."